[moralfibre]

What I am loving more than the actual implementation is the overall buzz that this has caused in the country. News articles, jokes, memes, tiktok videos, tweets, FB share of experiences from the road, et al. It helps spread awareness of the repercussions of not obeying the law.


Refer thread - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/stree...n-challan.html (Delhi man surrenders Activa after police fines him Rs 23,000; Says scooter is cheaper than challan)

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

What I am loving more than the actual implementation is the overall buzz that this has caused in the country. News articles, jokes, memes, tiktok videos, tweets, FB share of experiences from the road, et al. It helps spread awareness of the repercussions of not obeying the law.

A friend / BHPian updated that there was a long queue at his local bunk with people waiting to get their pollution certificates done/ renewed! Awareness indeed!

[V.Narayan]

We Indians often, almost always, complaint that the Govt does not do this or the authorities should do such and such. And when the Govt does do something - and the right thing we grumble about the freedoms it make take away or the extra bribes the cops may earn or this or that. For once lets appreciate that the right step has been taken and is actually being implemented. I for one say lay the stick on hard and long. It is only the language of the danda that we understand and follow.

[WorkingGuru]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

We Indians often, almost always, complaint that the Govt does not do this or the authorities should do such and such. And when the Govt does do something - and the right thing we grumble about the freedoms it make take away or the extra bribes the cops may earn or this or that...

We do say things out of our basic understanding. We may seem to you as a simple people, maybe, but it happens so that we deserve the right to reason.

For once lets appreciate that the right step has been taken and is actually being implemented.

Ah! the same lines as were being said during demonetisation.

It is only the language of the danda that we understand and follow.

Really, we aren't cattle. We kindof have been in the habit of reason & debate since a millennia (as scientifically evidenced by countless historical findings).

[Ithaca]

Originally Posted by Sheel

We have a 6 month PUC issued here. I feed the date on calendar of my phone for ~170 days, get it done before the date expires, you may try this hack .

A very proactive petrol station at Seawoods, Navi Mumbai, will take down your phone number when you do your PUC with him and he will send you an SMS reminding you to renew it. Here too it is valid for 6 months.
When I renewed my insurance this time, in June, the lady at New India Assurance informed me that I need to submit a photocopy of my valid PUC for insurance renewal.
Also for fitness certificate renewal, copy of my valid PUC was submitted along with other documents.

With regard to fines, going over Twitter, I see these types of comments.

1. Fines are too high etc etc, the govt is unjust.
2. Don't break rules, don't pay fines.
3. If we can follow traffic rules in foreign countries, what makes us behave like animals in our own country.
4. Ok, I will pay the fine but govt should provide me roads like Singapore, US etc etc.
5. Two or three short clips of the Telugu movie "Bharat Ane Nenu" in its Hindi dubbed version where the CM is justifying this move to increase fines.

Then I come to the conclusion that as people we only understand strict enforcement of rules and in this case it is monetary so it is hurting more.

I hope our people learn the hard way that rules are meant to be followed and our roads become safer due to this.
I understand that if the rule makers themselves are caught breaking the rules, their fine is double what we pay.
I wish our govt does not roll back these fines.

[pganapathy]

Assuming we don't see the cops taking advantage of these high fines to extort money by laying false cases, then I would be willing to drive a lot. If not, I may well resort to Ola/Uber for a while till this zeal dies down. Currently, the cops are out in force checking for anyway to make money.

But in the long term, I anyway tend to follow the rules when I drive, and occasionally face people cribbing about it. I will stop at a red and have people behind me horning to shoot it because there is no traffic on the other side

I believe this increase in fines is good only if it encourages good driving behaviour. Otherwise you are looking at many unintended consequences.

[bhardwhu]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

We Indians often, almost always, complaint that the Govt does not do this or the authorities should do such and such. And when the Govt does do something - and the right thing we grumble about the freedoms it make take away or the extra bribes the cops may earn or this or that. For once lets appreciate that the right step has been taken and is actually being implemented. I for one say lay the stick on hard and long. It is only the language of the danda that we understand and follow.

Well said. But it is not only Indians but I see here in US as well. People see cop cars and slow down. Fear of fines and compliance run deep provided they are high enough and offenders are sure that they would be booked. It is a good step for sure but a lot depends on the implementation by cops. Such high fines would mean that commuters should be asked to pay at the court, just like it happens here in US. There may be issues that need to be sorted out but we need a system where offending drivers would not have to pay bribes and yet pay up the high fines if they falter. Such shocks would take time to sink in and we hope course corrections ( such as body cams by Delhi Police) would continue to be implemented to make it a success. We cannot afford to lose lives on road.

[greenhorn]

I am going to wait for inflation to catch up with these fines. Given the current govt's economic performance, I am optimistic that these numbers will be meaningless soon!

[WorkingGuru]

I wish the traffic fines are somehow linked to Gross Total Income and collected as a percentage of GTI. Infact, higher the slab, the penalty percentage should be exponentially higher. Or, better-still, the average GTI over the past 3 years. That'd be fair IMO.

Only then will those who are travelling in luxury cars like Lexus/Volvo's truly empathise with people & understand the gravity of the law. Else what's ₹1,000/- to them, cost of filling air in the tyres or dusting the car at company ASC.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

We do say things out of our basic understanding. We may seem to you as a simple people, maybe, but it happens so that we deserve the right to reason.

Yes, obviously, everything should be reasoned out but eventually toe in the line of law. Therefore, whether you like it or not, a democratically elected government followed the due process of law making that encourages safety on roads. The side effects don't over shadow the need for decorum on our streets.

Really, we aren't cattle. We kindof have been in the habit of reason & debate since a millennia (as scientifically evidenced by countless historical findings).

Yes, do reason and debate but do it to ensure that confirmation bias set in.

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

I wish the traffic fines are somehow linked to Gross Total Income and collected as a percentage of GTI. Infact, higher the slab, the penalty percentage should be exponentially higher. Or, better-still, the average GTI over the past 3 years. That'd be fair IMO.

No WAY! These socialist / communist beliefs should be done away with. Fines should be standard irrespective of your net earnings. Please tell me why a person jumping a traffic light in a Mercedes is more culpable than one in a Maruti 800? The act of offence remains the same irrespective of his stature and therefore both deserve to pay the same amount of fine because it's not about income tax, it is about road safety. Don't mix the two.

Only then will those who are travelling in luxury cars like Lexus/Volvo's truly empathise with people & understand the gravity of the law. Else what's ₹1,000/- to them, cost of filling air in the tyres or dusting the car at company ASC.

Empathy for law breakers? What next? Reservations for street usage out of empathy? Your argument directly reminds me of this man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKOGpRhCFQk

[WorkingGuru]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

...
No WAY! These socialist / communist beliefs should be done away with. Fines should be standard irrespective of your net earnings. Please tell me why a person jumping a traffic light in a Mercedes is more culpable than one in a Maruti 800? The act of offence remains the same irrespective of his stature and therefore both deserve to pay the same amount of fine because it's not about income tax, it is about road safety. Don't mix the two.

Ah, so next you'd ask why should the bigger car not pay a standard fixed road tax?

Empathy for law breakers? What next? Reservations for street usage out of empathy?

If it was illegal to empathise with someone, without justifying their illegal act, then the law would say so.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by WorkingGuru

Ah, so next you'd ask why should the bigger car not pay a standard fixed road tax?

You are mixing up revenue generation v/s penalties. And btw, standard road tax across is due. I hope it becomes a reality.

If it was illegal to empathise with someone, without justifying their illegal act, then the law would say so.

Sure, empathy is free. Traffic offence isn't.

[V.Narayan]

When the second largest country in the world makes a fundamental change on how we should behave when using a public common use infrastructure there will be mistakes made and it will take time for the cops to learn, the signage's to come up, for the riders & drivers to adjust their attitudes and bahaviour. Till then, say a year, some of us, including me, could become collateral damage once or twice. If it means that a nation of 130 crore+ will improve by even 50% I am happy to get hauled up wrongly a couple of times bruising as it may be for thee go . If you follow the rules then by and large you should not worry about getting caught. That's what my now 40 years of driving has taught me. In my industry (aviation) you follow the rules come what may. Once you do that its easy. It becomes second nature. You follow rules because lives could be at stake. Most of us do not realize that a 1 tonne car driven at 60 kmph has roughly the same kinetic energy as a 40mm Bofors cannon shell travelling at 3300 kmph.

[padmrajravi]

For once, I like what the goverment is doing. Even if they are doing it to increase the revenues, this is a step in the right direction. At least people will think twice about breaking the law. I think fines for cases like drunken driving should increase further.

But I am worried about cops framing false cases, since they now have an incentive to break law themselves; the reward for that small risk have increased for the cops. Government should make video or image evidence mandatory for challans. That would deter the cops from framing false cases.

[KiloAlpha]

In life, we have some rules to follow. For instance, we have a rule taught since childhood to not put our left hand into our mouth. It is a rule. Black and White. There is very little grey about it. To quote a more simplistic analogy, sports have rules of engagement.

Speak to any adult and ask them to eat with their left hand, and watch their reaction. Shock, horror, disbelief, "how dare you ask me", "you must be crazy" ... these are all reactions we get when asking someone to violate a simple social rule. Break a rule in sport, and you get a red card, benched, banned, fined, etc etc.

You can think of any rule of social interaction, etiquette, and find that a vast majority of the people will follow them religiously, diligently. Point out a violation, and they will be contrite. Tell a sportsperson about a rule violation, and he/she will accept the punishment - after some protest, of course.

Dear readers, please notice that in the above paragraphs, I have alluded to "rules". Rules are different from "laws". The law has leeway and plenty of grey. Rules are the exact opposite. Very little grey, clear, simple, precise. We have a lot of laws, but a few rules to govern our behaviour on a day-to-day basis. Rules are there to grease and smoothen the everyday interactions we have with other people. The bureaucracy has rules governing their interactions with the public.

When we drive/ride/cycle/walk on the road, we are interacting with hundreds and thousands of other road users. And there are rules. Like "drive on the left side", "carry a copy of your documents", "wear helmet/seatbelt", "stop on red" etc.
Rules are inviolable! I repeat, Rules Are Inviolable

As a society, in India, it is ingrained that a rule made by parents/elders/God are different from rules made by our elected representatives. No, I am afraid not. All rules are inviolable. Society in most other countries generally frown upon rule violations of any kind. Hence, a vast majority of the population follows them.

Sorry to say, but in India, the opposite is true. Violating a rule started off as a badge of honour, and has now elevated itself to a way of life. Why don't you tell someone who is driving without a license that you don't think their behaviour is acceptable? You will become the laughing stock. I have tried it with my younger colleagues in office, and I am routinely dismissed as someone not in touch with reality.

BUT, I did not notice this "rules are not for me" tendency with traffic. I noticed it when I was a Scrum Master. Scrum (as a software development methodology) has rules. It is not a process. Rules are inviolable. Follow 3-4 rules and it works. Treat it as a bureaucratic process with its attendant shortcuts, work-arounds, and compromises, and it stops making any sense. I have tried explaining the concept of rules to a lot of teams. Mostly, they try. They see some results. And then my bosses tell me my methods are unacceptable, and I am overridden.

Point is - we don't understand the concept of a "rule". This brouhaha about steep fines has an undercurrent of "injustice" meted out to public by the authorities. So it is OK to drive around in an unregistered, uninsured motorcycle drunk and without a helmet. The person doing that gets fined to the extent that it teaches a lesson and sets and example and this is a "bad" thing? I disagree.

Rules are inviolable.

Nitin Gadkari is swimming against the tide of 1.3 billion people believing in their heart of hearts that rules violation is routine, forgiveable, and as essential a part of India as the monsoons. Unless this mindset is changed, India will continue to rail against the enforcement of traffic rules.