[The Mechanic]

Originally Posted by Thilak29

First let me thank you wholeheartedly and very pleased to learn that you are part of this forum. Look forward to your contributions.

1) AC filter change was NOT done, will get this done over this weekend.
2) No, but I will keep a close watch.
3) No rattles seen, fit and finish seem good. Leak test to be done while pressure wash car (hopefully coming Sunday). I am also watching out for any fog building which was not present/seen earlier.
4) I have kept his record in files, though I am not a keeper of service bills as they are available at ASCs across country on demand.
5) I got 3M interior cleaning (including germ cleaning) done at ASC and cabin feels very clean. I intend to vacuum once again.

Insurance did not cover cleaning, beading/rubber, glue and such consumable charges. Glass was fully covered.

Glad to be of help . When you do leak test don't just look for drips near dashboard. Get a flash light lie down and look underneath the dashboard. Also I would advice you to rub you hands through hard to see areas under the dash to look for any moisture.

I am attaching a picture of a car without dash for your reference to get an idea on where to look ( This is not your exact vehicle. If I remember correctly this is a first generation swift dzire )

[Abhinav V]

My god!

My heart skipped a beat when I saw pieces of glass flying inside the car.

If not for dashcam and the composure you maintained, god knows how badly things would have gone wrong.

Wish you a speedy recovery.

I taught my mom driving recently and it's been only a few days since she has gathered enough courage to take the car out on her own.

I am now really terrified to let her take the car on her own. The first thing I am going to do immediately is get a dashcam. It's high time I get one.

I am glad you got things sorted out without any delay.

These miscreants should be punished severely without giving any consideration to their poor background so that other miscreants get terrified to even think about it.

[PKG]

These incidents can get really painful. Some local men really think they rule the area. I'm usually in the habit of politely telling defaulters to pls have some sense and have got ugly replies. Example persons obstructing traffic by parking in no-parking narrow roads, even if you say, 'Sir this is not the place to wait and park', replies come in various ways also with the bird, some can even come out of the car and start hitting your car. People have really lost senses and only care for their convenience you conclude.

Many a times you want to make people aware of a mistake like simple 2 wheelers coming in opposite direction at a signal on the road you want to enter, blocking your entry. they just don't care and can get violent responses. Worst, it just spoils your mood and mind for a few hours then.

Don't know if letting it go is also good?

[pannags]

Just happened to notice this thread! Thank god that Thilak was safe after what had happened to his car!

Happy to know that the incident was well publicized and the miscreants are now behind bars.

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

As he stared back at me, I just smiled and gestered to please cut in and go as he pleases. Anyway he stayed in the centre lane, got stuck and I happily drove off.

Originally Posted by VKumar

Only once it happened that I decided not to lose my composure, amazingly that day I got it completely recorded on the dash cam.

Blessed states of mind, I must say. On rare occasions, I find myself staring at people for cutting into my lane or trying to drive dangerously. Have to learn to stay poised at all times.

On a serious note, we need in-ward facing "Stay Calm" stickers. Team-BHP branded ones

[ariesonu]

To control Road-Rage or instill some sense into drivers, car companies can put a sticker on dashboard "YOU ARE DRIVING A CAR/SCOOTER/BIKE, NOT A WAR MACHINE, BE SENSIBLE, BE COOL"

[VKumar]

It's quarantine

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Leather belt with chunky buckle is a good weapon indeed. Problem is stray dogs come in packs. Chances are that you will be overpowered soon and the stray dogs will be tearing you apart.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Stray dogs do have mob mentality.

Being someone who has done a semi specialization in this stuff (Until I graduated), a leather belt is among the worst things to have. All you can hit is just once; after that, in those few seconds, when you wave the belt back (I am sure you won't keep only 1 foot of it for hitting), the person will either catch you, or your belt - and if it's a mob or even 2 of them; the game reverses. And trust me guys, when it comes to such acts, these roadside guys are mostly better than us - they frequently go through all this. So, what PrideRed says is actually mostly correct.

The best option is always to be safe first, and avoid the quarrel itself. Lord Krishna's one dialogue from Mahabharata I would like to recite here "agar shanti rajya chhod kar bhi mile, toh samjho ki saste me mil gayi (If you get peace even after letting off the throne, consider it a small cost for it)."

Else if there is no option - then go all out. Stop thinking of cons; and then anything in your hand is a potential self defense tool. I have seen people getting beaten like dogs with belts and what not, but still stand up, pick a brick and shoo away even 5 men.

[Johnn]

I do keep a stick after two minor incidents that could have escalated. Just in case. But wiser not to retaliate as advised. My concern is for all road users including me who could get bashed up for a minor silly reason see below.

Regarding the reason for the fight, it is there in the footage at the beginning. The two riders were on two separate scooters and one turned right. Other guy was slow to turn so he waited in the left. See their t shirt colours. Something must have made them angry enough to assault so severely.

Only because of dashcam and media attention justice happened. Next time we won't be as lucky so take care to allow others before us when we drive. Dashcam - must get one too.

[G-BoleroBoy]

Hello all,

Updating on this thread since I had a similar incident though on smaller scale with minimal damages. I live in RR nagar and this happened very close my house. I was driving back my parents in my ignis and noticed a guy on white Honda activa trying to cut me and signalling me to stop. His gesture and rashness made me suspect something wrong and moved on ignoring him. This made him even more furious.

Within next 50 mts or so traffic had slowed down to stop as road narrows there with horrible potholes. I slowed down to halt and this guy overtook, parked in front of my car and came to me making all signs of fury and shouting. I remained in the car and was calm. Signalled him to Chill and move on, even offered few apologies from behind closed glass. He tried opening the door and started threatening to break the glass if I don’t step out. I remembered this thread and stay out in car as my dash can also was on. After a minute or so he picked up a sizeable stone (like 8 inches dia) and threatened again. I didn’t budge. Saw few cars and bikes moving from left side and I started backing up a bit. When I had enough clearance and this guy moved a bit away I started moving forward steering to left to clear his parked bike. He started shouting with hand raised. Thinking he may not do anything I continued moving albeit very slowly (crawling). Boom, the glass shattered and my face was hit and realized he had thrown the stone that was now lying in passenger footwell.

I throttled and moved quickly and drove off. Nothing in rear view mirror I got into my block that was some 200 mts away and reached home. Nobody followed. While I was turning in noticed a KTM guy ride up and ask if I was ok. Stopped for 5 secs and told him I was fine and zoomed towards home.

After reaching home that is kind of hidden from main road parked the car in basement and assessed the situation. Made couple of calls to friend and police station. Cops reached home in 10 mins and checked everything. They were empathetic to the situation and asked me to file a complaint. Asked me if I had noted the number. I told it should be there in dash cam. After they left I checked the cam and realized it did not record anything.

Spent rest of the day fuming and trying to retrieve files from camera and analysing. Nothing helped.
Went back to spot with my brother and assessed what could be done. Nothing came out.

Drove up few kms to see if I can find any clue or that guy. Noticed a CCTV camera just before my incident spot. But it was pointing to other direction. Went requested them to share footage and after lot of coercing I got them to pull up the footage.

Now I have the footage where this guy is chasing my car, face clearly visible but not the number plates.

Couldn’t sleep the whole night just because of this stupid guy. I am sure I am going back to cops and handing over the video. And I am thinking what else I might have to do for them to act. Would I need a lawyer?

Please let me know what are my options and how I can get some justice.

PS: both mom and dad are fine and no injuries to them. Dad’s leg had a small swelling that has subsided. I have few cuts and small swelling on face. Only car window glass shattered.

Please help and guide me through this situation. I may not end up with anything.
But this guy is out there. Probably living close by since he was not wearing helmet nor face mask. Appreciate all your support, help and guidance.

[anantpoddar]

This is an unfortunate incident. Thank god you and your family are safe and escaped with minor injuries.
My blood boils when I read such experiences on the road, although, I might have reacted in the same way as you did.

I may not be of much help but I have a query in general to BHPians and folks with legal experience might be able to answer this better:

Is it OK to use a pepper spray in such situations in India? If so, then at what point?
1. Aggressive verbal confrontation: Definitely unwarranted I suppose?
2. Someone tried to forcibly open the vehicle door shows intent to harm?
3. Verbally threatened to break the window glass, damage other areas of the vehicle
4. Threatened with a physical object (stone, rod, etc)
5. Try to incapacitate your movement (e.g.: reaching out to deflate or slash tyres / damage windshield)
6. Two or more people surround your car, blocking your way, aggressively banging the vehicle with hands, abusive, threatening to cause physical injury, forcibly trying to open the door

Situation no. 6 is a special one: what if you try to get away from such a situation and end up banging one of those guys. I'm asking this because I've been in this situation and was made to part with a significant amount of money. Does the presence of a female in the vehicle changes things for us, legally?

Of course the basis for all this is that you use this opportunity to get away from the situation and not engage in further confrontation.

Mods: I could not find any other thread where to post this, please help make changes if necessary.

[N.A.GTC]

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

I may not be of much help but I have a query in general to BHPians and folks with legal experience might be able to answer this better:

Is it OK to use a pepper spray in such situations in India? If so, then at what point?
1. Aggressive verbal confrontation: Definitely unwarranted I suppose?
2. Someone tried to forcibly open the vehicle door shows intent to harm?
3. Verbally threatened to break the window glass, damage other areas of the vehicle
4. Threatened with a physical object (stone, rod, etc)
5. Try to incapacitate your movement (e.g.: reaching out to deflate or slash tyres / damage windshield)
6. Two or more people surround your car, blocking your way, aggressively banging the vehicle with hands, abusive, threatening to cause physical injury, forcibly trying to open the door

Situation no. 6 is a special one: what if you try to get away from such a situation and end up banging one of those guys. I'm asking this because I've been in this situation and was made to part with a significant amount of money. Does the presence of a female in the vehicle changes things for us, legally?
.

Let me try to answer this. Although, before we begin, I must state that I encourage every reader to try to do their own research; do not take any decisions based on a post made by a stranger online (i.e. me).

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

1. Aggressive verbal confrontation: Definitely unwarranted I suppose?

You're absolutely right. Unwarranted.

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

2. Someone tried to forcibly open the vehicle door shows intent to harm?
3. Verbally threatened to break the window glass, damage other areas of the vehicle
4. Threatened with a physical object (stone, rod, etc)

Possibly.
Legally, as under the general exceptions of the Indian Penal Code (Chapter IV), the principle of self defence is based on 'reasonable force' - in other words, you are supposed to apply force (in this case, pepper spray) only when and only to the extent that it is necessary to defend yourself. To give some clear-cut case, it would be wrong to shoot a person with a gun in any of these cases, but it might be justifiable to slap/punch them. The main thing is that whatever you're doing should prevent you from an imminent attack in a manner that is not excessive. To sum-up:
(i) imminent attack (and not just a verbal threat -- rather, an actual reason for you to believe you'll be hurt).
(ii) not excessive (proportionate force)
(iii) to defend yourself (the force you use (pepper spray) needs to be solely to defend yourself - not to attack; not to avenge after the other person has stopped or anything like that).


Let us also have a look at the relevant provisions (all Indian Penal Code, PDF here):

97. Right of private defence of the body and of property. -- Every person has a right, subject to the restrictions contained in section 99, to defend

First.--His own body, and the body of any other person, against any offence affecting the human body;
Secondly.--The property, whether movable or immovable, of himself or of any other person, against any act which is an offence falling under the defintion of theft, robbery, mischief or criminal trespass, or which is an attempt to commit theft, robbery, mischief or criminal trespass.

99. Acts against which there is no right of private defence.--
(...)*

There is no right of private defence in cases in which there is time to have recourse to protection of the public authorities.

Extent to which the right may be exercised.
Extent to which the right may be exercised.--The right of private defence in no case extends to the inflicting of more harm than it is necessary to inflict for the purpose of defence.

*Removed some part relating to public servants to avoid unnecessary confusion. Google 'Section 99 IPC' if you want the full text.


Then Section 100 tells you when you can cause death as self defence (to prevent death, rape, kidnapping, robbery & wrongful confinement). Section 101 tells you you can cause such harm as necessary but cannot cause death.

Also to keep in mind: your right to self defence ends as soon as the threat is over. So if the person threatened you, punched your window etc., but then has moved back, it is unlawful for you to attack him now. (Section 102)


To the best of my knowledge, pepper spray does not cause death (though I do not know much about it, and have never used it myself). So use of pepper spray in these situations is lawful, provided you are under a genuine threat.

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

5. Try to incapacitate your movement (e.g.: reaching out to deflate or slash tyres / damage windshield)
6. Two or more people surround your car, blocking your way, aggressively banging the vehicle with hands, abusive, threatening to cause physical injury, forcibly trying to open the door

Definitely allowed to use pepper spray. It is legitimate self defence (assuming there are no cops present, and you have no other way to protect yourself).

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

Situation no. 6 is a special one: what if you try to get away from such a situation and end up banging one of those guys.

If the situation is such that you're allowed to use self defence (based on discussion above), this is also lawful.

Originally Posted by anantpoddar

Does the presence of a female in the vehicle changes things for us, legally?

If the attacked has made sexually coloured remarks about the woman, attempted any harassment, etc., then a counter-FIR could be filed. Practically speaking, you have a stronger case then. But only if such an incident has happened, not simply by having a female present.



Oh, also, you should not be the one who has started the fight. You cannot instigate and claim self defence.

This is just a brief discussion, and by no means an elaboration of the complete situation. I would encourage you to read Sections 96 to 106 of IPC (Google, or use the indiacode.nic.in PDF link above) for yourself.




----


With all that aside, however, my recommendation would still be to avoid any confrontation and escalation at all costs. Self defence is legal, yes, but this line of thought presupposes that you would be going to the court. I'm sure most of the Team BHP members do not have the time or patience to undergo the unfortunate Kafkaesque harassment that is the Indian criminal justice system. Keep in mind that if you cause harm to someone, and they report it to the police, the police are duty-bound to register an FIR and proceed. They are not supposed to evaluate your explanations and defences (though they may take it into account for the purposes of investigation). Any such determination has to be by the court. And that will take years.

Hope this helps!

[dsnaveen21]

Good to see both accused behind bars, Hope your car is doing fine now. You had a dashcam, biggest advantage.

[Kln]

Originally Posted by G-BoleroBoy

Hello all,

Updating on this thread since I had a similar incident though on smaller scale with minimal damages. I live in RR nagar and this happened very close my house. I was driving back my parents in my ignis and noticed a guy on white Honda activa trying to cut me and signalling me to stop. His gesture and rashness made me suspect something wrong and moved on ignoring him. This made him even more furious.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but any update as to what happened next? Did you file a complaint? Did the police get involved? Was the man identified?

[Raghu M]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

This is my worst nightmare on our roads and hats off to you for staying calm. It's very hard to resist instinct and remain calm. The worst part is everyone around just watches in these situations. Atleast the puncture wala from where they took the wrench should have stopped them before or even after.

A few days back in Pune, I didn't allow this guy in a Brezza to cut in which pissed him off I guess and he was looking to get into a fight. His lane was free, so I have no idea why he got so worked up.

Man oh man, you have patience and guts. Had I been you, I would have been tempted to scratch his entire right side. But, patience is the key. Those kind of angry stares give me a disturbing time while driving. It's just so bad for someone to do like that. Good that you kept your lane, loved the video.

I just can say one thing - Respect to you Thilak. Man you handled the entire situation so calmly. Had I been you, I would have happily flashed myself all over the media channels and even given interviews. You stayed calm throughout the incident and that takes a lot of patience and guts. Having guts does not mean being aggressive but keeping calm and facing the situation boldly. While I felt very bad after watching those footages, I am also relieved that the miscreants are behind bars and you have recovered very well. Keep safe brother!

[G-BoleroBoy]

Originally Posted by Kln

Sorry to bump an old thread, but any update as to what happened next? Did you file a complaint? Did the police get involved? Was the man identified?

Sorry for not updating the thread. Here it goes:

My dashcam footage was not retrieved since it was paused unintentionally somehow. However, I had the police complaint that was lodged and FIR done the same day after Inspector heard my version. Cops had tried tracing the person based on vehicle number, but it was still in old owner's name and hence the person who assaulted was not traced yet. Then some riots in Bangalore put my case investigation on backfoot. However, within a week I got a call from the station that the accused was there at the station and I had to identify. Once I visited and confirmed the identification, police took over the case and assured me that subsequent next steps will be followed as per process (since FIR was lodged). Chargesheet was submitted to court on 10th Dec by police. I got an automated SMS informing me the same. Now, waiting for summons from court to appear for the case to be heard.
Thank you all for the support. Hope this gets a logical closure.

[Kln]

Originally Posted by G-BoleroBoy

Sorry for not updating the thread. Here it goes:

... Chargesheet was submitted to court on 10th Dec by police. I got an automated SMS informing me the same. Now, waiting for summons from court to appear for the case to be heard.
Thank you all for the support. Hope this gets a logical closure.

Thanks for the update. Glad to know that the police is doing its job. Wishing for a fair and speedy end to your ordeal. Cannot imagine the adrenaline wave and the mental exhaustion that comes with this.