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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:16   #11716
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

I too feel that it is okay to use hazard lights during rains.
Going too much with the rules sometimes is just not fit for the scenario.
This August, I encountered torrential rain driving on the Eastern Peripheral Expressway and noticed how cars/trucks (especially trucks) that had their hazard lights were much easier to notice than those who only had their tail lights on.
I would rather switch on my hazard lights and be visible to fellow road users than keep them off to use as indicators and risk getting banged just cause I wasn't easily visible.

Also, usually when it is raining heavily, people slow down and become extra aware of vehicles changing lanes. I didn't face any problem with vehicles changing lanes without indicators as everyone is much more aware of their surroundings and change lanes slowly compared to abrupt changes under normal conditions.

Some people are saying that hazard lights are for extreme braking situations. Seriously, in an emergency situation who even remembers switching on their hazard lights while braking fast?
It all happens in seconds! Yes, maybe after the emergency situation has passed and the driver is back to calmness, they may switch on the hazard lights but kind of defeats the purpose people are suggesting!

This debate is similar to flashing lights while overtaking. IIRC, some members were telling that the rule is the incoming vehicle flashes the light to let the overtaking vehicle know that you may pass and I will let you pass while in India the meaning of flashing the lights is let me pass I won't brake for you!
Honestly, the real one seems confusing and the Indian one is easy to understand and logical. Moreover, when all of India is using the Indian one (just like the hazard lights), don't be the odd one out to follow the book and end up in the ditch!
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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:25   #11717
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
So you mean to say flashing lights makes it easy for you to gauge distances? I implore you to conduct your own experiment to verify that as you must be the only person in the world who feels that way. Like I said, it makes it easy to spot a vehicle but far more difficult to track it. Flashing lights makes it tough to gauge the distance between it and another vehicle due to the scatter of light and the light itself not being constant, and also makes it difficult to gauge its rate of acceleration/deceleration.
Sir, no offence but in the second video Venky03 posted, I don't find any problem in gauging the distance between different vehicles. Maybe you keep your wipers at a slower speed? During heavy rains, every one is driving slow and is much more aware, if a vehicle is visible to you isn't it easier to control your speeds according to it compared to a vehicle that is not easily visible to you? Gauging the distance comes later.
Sir, do you use specs? Specs can also contribute to this problem that you mentioned if the power is not correct.
Also using a sunglass during daytime rains help with the visibility quite a lot!
My choice of words may seem disrespectful but that is not my intention at all.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:33   #11718
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by Candy$Cars View Post
Sir, no offence but in the second video Venky03 posted, I don't find any problem in gauging the distance between different vehicles. Maybe you keep your wipers at a slower speed? During heavy rains, every one is driving slow and is much more aware, if a vehicle is visible to you isn't it easier to control your speeds according to it compared to a vehicle that is not easily visible to you? Gauging the distance comes later.
Sir, do you use specs? Specs can also contribute to this problem that you mentioned if the power is not correct.
Also using a sunglass during daytime rains help with the visibility quite a lot!
My choice of words may seem disrespectful but that is not my intention at all.
No offense taken.

First of all, a video is different from the human eye. Exposure on a camera automatically adjusts far quicker than the human eye is able to do so. No I do not use spectacles and yes I do know how to use my windshield wipers. Please conduct a proper experiment of your own before assuming everything is a-okay. Everything I have stated is pure fact no mucking about nor personal opinion and I encourage you to disprove it but do put some thought into your reasoning before doing so. If you believe there is nothing wrong in using hazard lights then please write a mail to all manufacturers outlining how they can save some money by encouraging their customers to use hazard lights instead of offering fog lamps. There is a reason why side markers, fog lamps and tail lamps are all static and do not flash.

I feel India just needs another reason to be able to disco at this rate

Last edited by IshaanIan : 22nd October 2021 at 14:37.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:42   #11719
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
No offense taken.

First of all, a video is different from the human eye. Exposure on a camera automatically adjusts far quicker than the human eye is able to do so. No I do not use spectacles and yes I do know how to use my windshield wipers. Please conduct a proper experiment of your own before assuming everything is a-okay. Everything I have stated is pure fact no mucking about nor personal opinion and I encourage you to disprove it but do put some thought into your reasoning before doing so. If you believe there is nothing wrong in using hazard lights then please write a mail to all manufacturers outlining how they can save some money by encouraging their customers to use hazard lights instead of offering fog lamps. There is a reason why side markers, fog lamps and tail lamps are all static and do not flash.
What I had said was what I had observed during my drive to Chandigarh this August. The entire route i faced heavy rains and the hazard lights did help in noticing other road users.
However, what you said may well be true when the traffic is also heavy and everyone has their hazards on. The scattering will get troublesome.
But i didn't face any such difficulty in gauging distances. This can be mainly because the traffic was at most moderate and mostly sparse on the highway. Secondly, I was using UV sunglasses which may have helped in cutting the scattering.

Will definitely keep in my mind to experiment what you said the next time i face heavy rains.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 14:53   #11720
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
So you mean to say flashing lights makes it easy for you to gauge distances? I implore you to conduct your own experiment to verify that as you must be the only person in the world who feels that way. Like I said, it makes it easy to spot a vehicle but far more difficult to track it. Flashing lights makes it tough to gauge the distance between it and another vehicle due to the scatter of light and the light itself not being constant, and also makes it difficult to gauge its rate of acceleration/deceleration. These are simply the facts not my opinion or anything just plain and simple fact. So if you really do care about safety as you claim, then what on earth is wrong with getting yourself some rear fog lamps?
For me, being able to spot someone in time comes first. Gauging the rate of acceleration/deceleration, scatter of light and all scientific mumbo jumbo comes later. If you fail to spot someone in time, you hit them from behind, irrespective of scattering of light experiments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I don't understand this logic behind not using foglamps. I mean what are you trying to say? Because others don't have them you won't use them?
Please read what I wrote again then jump to conclusions. I am happy to have rear fog lamps. It will help people spot me. But I need to spot others too, isn't it?

I will repeat what I said in my earlier post. To each their own.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 15:06   #11721
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by Venky03 View Post
But again, if you have hazard lights turned on then that does not justify swerving/overtaking at high speeds.

Some clips from the same day :
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=99Kn_cr2d5w
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=rInqT4oxklE
I don't overtake during rains or fog situations and don't even drive more than 40-50 in these conditions. Just simply keep following the car in front with safe distance. I do this during night drives on single lanes too. It's the safest way I have experienced to tackle such situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post

This sounds to me like the kind of reasoning few folks use when they flash their high-beams while barreling down the wrong side of the road. Your tail lamps should be more than sufficient for others to see and if it is foggy, simply use static rear fog lights. I mean if one can spot a plane in the sky with its markers, what clouds are you driving through?
Of course tail lamps should be sufficient but during day time they aren't especially if it's a fog situation or very heavy rain. In any case it's to each his own. We should drive the way we feel is safer for us without causing trouble for others. My methods works for me absolutely fine.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 15:37   #11722
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Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
I don't overtake during rains or fog situations and don't even drive more than 40-50 in these conditions. Just simply keep following the car in front with safe distance. I do this during night drives on single lanes too. It's the safest way I have experienced to tackle such situations.
Hello harry, the post was not directed towards you; apologies if it seemed that way.
What we're discussing here is about bad drivers/bad driving habits in general and swerving/overtaking at high speeds with hazard lights on is something that falls under the bad driving category according to me.
Indian road rules are full of gray areas and every situation will get different response as we all think and interpret things in a different way.
I believe that all of us BHPians in general practice sensible driving
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Old 22nd October 2021, 17:44   #11723
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

I would just like to chip in regarding the use of Hazard Lights when raining.

The UK Highway Code mentions the following under section 4.116 (Lighting Requirements):

Quote:
116
Hazard warning lights.
These may be used when your vehicle is stationary, to warn that it is temporarily obstructing traffic. Never use them as an excuse for dangerous or illegal parking. You MUST NOT use hazard warning lights while driving or being towed unless you are on a motorway or unrestricted dual carriageway and you need to warn drivers behind you of a hazard or obstruction ahead. Only use them for long enough to ensure that your warning has been observed.
There is a reason why use and misuse of Hazard Lights is incorporated into the law. Using Hazard Lights in the rain, no matter how heavy, is an incorrect use. Headlights, tail lights and fog lights are to be used when visibility is poor, and not Hazard Lights. A misuse of Hazard Lights is dangerous as it can mis-inform drivers behind you - so a standard must be followed by all.

We can surely respect and appreciate this when developed countries with minimal accident rates and strict driving laws have this defined in law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy$Cars View Post
Going too much with the rules sometimes is just not fit for the scenario.

...

This debate is similar to flashing lights while overtaking. IIRC, some members were telling that the rule is the incoming vehicle flashes the light to let the overtaking vehicle know that you may pass and I will let you pass while in India the meaning of flashing the lights is let me pass I won't brake for you!
Honestly, the real one seems confusing and the Indian one is easy to understand and logical. Moreover, when all of India is using the Indian one (just like the hazard lights), don't be the odd one out to follow the book and end up in the ditch!
Sorry to say but attitudes like this is why drivers are generally so bad in India. Everyone else doesn't follow the book so let me not do it either? Next? Everyone else drives on the wrong side or runs the red light, so let me do it as well? If this is the attitude everyone haves then how in the world will things ever improve?

It is extremely possible to follow the rules and the law, and still be a safe driver and not 'end up in the ditch' as you have put it. Basic things like proper use of headlights, hazard lights, maintaining lane discipline and keeping a safe distance from the traffic ahead of you can go a long, long way to keeping you safe when driving.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy$Cars View Post
Some people are saying that hazard lights are for extreme braking situations. Seriously, in an emergency situation who even remembers switching on their hazard lights while braking fast?
It all happens in seconds! Yes, maybe after the emergency situation has passed and the driver is back to calmness, they may switch on the hazard lights but kind of defeats the purpose people are suggesting!
Just for your information, many modern cars have an inbuilt feature where the Hazard Lights automatically come on under hard braking. In fact, I believe this is law in most countries around the world. I have also been in a few emergency braking situations (of course, where I had a decent amount of space in front of me due to maintaining proper distance), and I was quite able to put on my Hazard Lights while braking, and even glance at the rear view mirror to see if I had a chance of being rear-ended.

At the end of the day, my friend, it is a personal decision whether we follow the law and safe driving practices. But the more we do it, the more others will be encouraged to do so, and the safer we all will be on the road.

Last edited by s4ch : 22nd October 2021 at 17:55.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 18:06   #11724
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Not exactly a bad driver or a rider. Just am unlucky reptile.

A snake run over by a lorry. Thankfully it wasn't found by a two wheeler rider, who could have panicked and faced a fall.

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Old 22nd October 2021, 18:57   #11725
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

Saw this genius watching a movie on his mobile when driving in heavy traffic.
PS - I was riding pillion.
Attached Thumbnails
Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em-img_20211022_184426.jpg  

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Old 22nd October 2021, 20:28   #11726
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Hazard lights is a hazardous topic on TEAM-BHP .

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/stree...rd-lights.html (Yet Another Incorrect New Use for Hazard Lights)

Ideally to be used either on stationary cars or cars being towed.

IMO, if we do use them in other scenarios like very heavy fog or extreme rainfall, overtaking and lane changing go out of the window and at drastically reduced speeds. If the situation demands/tempts you to either overtake or switch lanes, then the situation has improved and is closer to normalcy, thus no longer warrants usage of hazard lights .

Last edited by moralfibre : 22nd October 2021 at 23:03. Reason: Only two smileys permitted per post.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 20:49   #11727
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

This happened yesterday at Kollam Bypass during my night drive to Trivandrum. Trucker got an instant urge to pull over. He might have seen a tea shop or something even better The bike was happily passing all vehicles through the left side, a lucky escape for him.

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Old 22nd October 2021, 21:08   #11728
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Hazard lights being used in rains is an option which may be used, but then when the person wants to turn , they should aptly remember the indicator will not override the hazard light.

Also many a times people use hazard light at a division of roads to indicate they are going straight , add this to rains and well you will

In monsoons there is always a thin film of water between the road and the tyre contact so it is pertinent to travel at a judged speed rather than turning the hazard lights , become a Schumacher and aquaplane oneself.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 21:38   #11729
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Default Re: Bad Drivers - How do you spot 'em

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Originally Posted by s4ch View Post
Sorry to say but attitudes like this is why drivers are generally so bad in India. Everyone else doesn't follow the book so let me not do it either? Next? Everyone else drives on the wrong side or runs the red light, so let me do it as well? If this is the attitude everyone haves then how in the world will things ever improve?

It is extremely possible to follow the rules and the law, and still be a safe driver and not 'end up in the ditch' as you have put it. Basic things like proper use of headlights, hazard lights, maintaining lane discipline and keeping a safe distance from the traffic ahead of you can go a long, long way to keeping you safe when driving.
LOL! All those situations you mentioned that is taking the rules and burying them then hosting a party for their death ceremony
I didn't mean it to that extreme but yes I get what you are trying to say.
I do try to follow rules very diligently. It is just hazard lights usage has been a grey area for me for far too long and even the generally aware part of the normal public (like our parents, friends etc.) are not clear on what's the correct usage. What is worse still is that their incorrect usages also don't seem wrong and so people continue the same way, how will you correct something you didn't feel was wrong at the first place?

At the end of the day, we are mere mortals, no matter how much we try somewhere or the other we will be letting convenience creep in, in place of the proper rule! I know this is what you wanted to correct with your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s4ch View Post
Just for your information, many modern cars have an inbuilt feature where the Hazard Lights automatically come on under hard braking. In fact, I believe this is law in most countries around the world. I have also been in a few emergency braking situations (of course, where I had a decent amount of space in front of me due to maintaining proper distance), and I was quite able to put on my Hazard Lights while braking, and even glance at the rear view mirror to see if I had a chance of being rear-ended.
Is it? I have only heard about the feature where the brake lights start pulsating in emergency braking scenarios.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 21:54   #11730
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Originally Posted by s4ch View Post
I would just like to chip in regarding the use of Hazard Lights when raining.

The UK Highway Code mentions the following under section 4.116 (Lighting Requirements):
Different places have different rules/ guidelines on the use of hazard lights. It is certainly a grey area. I find them to be useful and I didn't find anything in India that would state that their use in torrential rains is illegal.

Quoting from below link.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/ve...6-54ae4018bc0c


“A driver operating a motor vehicle on a public road can use the hazard lights in inclement weather to proceed safely on the road to alert other drivers that they may be approaching, overtaking, or passing, or stopped on the side of the road,”

In the US, it is legal in some and illegal in some states, and the situations in which it is legal vary form state to state.
Below document from Texas even lists that as a tip when driving in fog.

Again quoting from the below link

https://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdo...afety-tips.pdf


Tips for Driving in Heavy Rain/Flood-Prone Areas
• Be cautious when traveling through flood-prone areas. Flash floods can come rapidly and
unexpectedly—within a few minutes or hours of excessive rainfall. Flash flooding is
common in many areas of Texas, especially the Texas Hill Country.
• Turn on your headlights and slow down, allowing extra distance for braking.
• Never attempt to drive through flooded roadways. Water covering roadways may hide
washed-out bridges or gouged-out roadbeds, and even in relatively shallow water, tires can
act as flotation devices, lifting up big vehicles and sending them downstream. It takes only
two feet of water to float a 3,000-pound car.
Tips for Driving in Fog
• Slow down and do not drive faster than your field of vision. Use windshield wipers and
defroster as necessary to maximize visibility.
• Increase following distance to ensure enough reaction time and stopping distance. When
you use your brakes, don’t stop suddenly.
• Turn on your lights, including your hazard lights. Use low beam headlights and fog lights if you have them. Do not use high beams.

Last edited by ishan12 : 22nd October 2021 at 22:02.
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