[Surprise]

http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image0683ge.jpg

I was referring to this image.

[vandan]

@surprise in the pic it does not touch 180,its around 175

[aseem]

Vandan, you look at the RPM meter, its still not in red, proving the car could have easily exceeded 180kmph. Thats the point surprise wanted to mention.

[v1p3r]

Still going on about Esteem? Added a Swift too??

BTW, just because there are revs left on the meter does NOT mean you can get them. You still need the engine to produce that much power. And at high speeds and in high gears, it's not that easy.

[vandan]

oops! sorry did not see the meter,my mistake.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by GTO

That would be me. In no way to strengthen any side of the argument butttttttttttttt



GTO

GTO...agree with your pic... .however at high speeds almost all speedos exihibit an error and the acceleration gigures are measured by specialised instruments....hence while the speed may show 190 the car may be doing 178 for all you know...In general, at high speeds the speedos show more than the actual speed....

[Buffetfan]

Aseem,
sorry...was away..and did not read your response...I am not here to prove any point....however...I do want to present data from the finest sources and I believe ACI is one of the finest...Overdrive...which did a horribly biased job in promoting the Indica and showing down other cars when it was owned by TATA's (it is not now) just does not cut the ice with me....not with the amount of reading I do...it is easy to separate the wheat from the chaff...

Originally Posted by aseem

Here is a qoute from the road test of another reputed magazine, autocarindia for Esteem:

The 1.3 petrol, although ancient, is one of the finest engines available in India: built largely out of aluminium, it is refined, powerful, and frugal and loves to be revved. In fact, it can accelerate quicker than an old Honda City VTEC! This engine is virtually bombproof, and a sipper, averaging an amazing 10.1 and 16.7kpl in city and on the highway.
:

why quote ACI...lets talk about the Overdrive that you suggested...according to Overdrive the FE figures are (quoting sep 04 overdrive)

Esteem : 8.2 (city) and 15.4 (highway)
Baleno : 10.2 (city) and 18.9 (highway)

...surely..these figures look ridiculous..and that's what they are...similar to other overdrive figures...lazily compiled...and thrown in witout any concern abt accuracy

.

http://www.autocarindia.com/new/Road...ls.asp?ID=1033

Overdrive also rates Esteem 0-100 faster than Baleno. So that makes it three magazines as opposed to your ACI figures. Now that brings me to the second part of what you have mentioned:
:

...how many quality magazines we are talking abt here....we do not have any in india apart from ACI and the biased Overdrive...others simply do not exist...there is a newsly launched TopGear in india now...lets see how it turns out..

As mentioned earlier:
What helps esteem engine along is the excellent gearbox, which is light and precise, although the too-tall gearing affects driveability somewhat. To put it plainly, Esteem is less torquier than Baleno. Therefore you have smartly posted figures that help you prove a point. Baleno being a torquier car will always imply that its torque will peak at a lower RPM band, doesnt mean its faster than Esteem. If you put Accent Viva Crdi on 4 gear and accelerate from 30-100, Baleno will be seeing the exhaust smoke of the CRDI as it has more torque than the Baleno.

Agree in 3rd gear...but only a FOOL will be keeping the Baleno in 3rd then....I would shift to 2nd and peacefully overtake the CRDI ..while the CRDI guy will need to shift up even more (did you know??) to 4th to reach the magical 3 figure mark...I will reach there in 2nd only....by then he will be looking at the clean exhaust of the Baleno...since unlike CRDI...my beauty does not spew smoke like clint eastwood...and still beats the CRDi in top whack by 20kmph

The torque of Esteem is 105@3000 RPM as opposed to 134@3000 RPM for Baleno. Compared with lower torque and tall gearing, Esteem's acceleration on 3rd and 4th gear is a lot less than Baleno, but how about posting the figures of 0-100 on 2nd gear for both the cars?...

Not available....maybe since second gear starts are not advisable....but what I have shared are speeds achieved in 2nd only as both Esteem and Baleno touch 100+ in second gear..clearly shows Baleno is faster

Hyundai accent CRDI is 187@2000 RPM so its even more torquier than Baleno, but doesnt make it faster??? just makes it more drivable and increases acceleration figures from 30-100 kmph on 4th gear as opposed to Baleno. So just like Accent CRDI is not faster than Baleno, similarly between 0-100 if revved to the limit, Esteem is faster than Baleno, I am not talking about the drivability here.

dont know what you are trying to say here..have already shared what should be done if you encounter a Crdi..simply shift to 2nd and leave it behind...

So agreed third gear acceleration of Esteem is no way near as good as Baleno, but doesnt mean its slower. It has to be revved hard like a sports car. And if its about driveability, than in City conditions, Accent CRDI is more drivable than Baleno due to its awesome torque.

I disagree...It just does not mean esteem it is slow....But it surely means it is slower

Coming to your last point, about Baleno having 94 bhp as opposed to 85 bhp for Esteem means it has more power. Agreed, it has more power, but it has to tow more weight as opposed to Esteem. The gross weight of Esteem is 860 as opposed to 975 for Baleno, thus the effective power to weigt ratio of Esteem is a ton.
85:860==== 99 BHP per thousand kgs.
94:975==== 96 BHP per thousand kgs.
Finally, I am no advocate of Esteem. I am just stating facts, and not jiggling around with them to prove a point. Take this in the right spirit.

My first point was abt power to weight...in which the Accent tornado beats both Baleno and Esteem hands down...unfortunately it is not as simple as that...it how the torque and power is developed thorughout the rpm band that makes the whole difference...maybe you want to brush up the rotational kinematics fundae a bit...

just to get even...let me clap too...no offense...but want to..desperately

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by aseem

Vandan, you look at the RPM meter, its still not in red, proving the car could have easily exceeded 180kmph. Thats the point surprise wanted to mention.

Surprise,

even @ 185, the Baleno does not hit the limiter

(in fact it does 185 in 4th compared to 5th..assuming a 15% gap between the 4th nad the fifth...theoratical speed would be approx 210 kmph)


..but it sadly tops out @ 185...

...at high speeds the aerodynamic and frictional resistance becomes simply too much for the engine to overcome...

Same is the case with the swift...just because it is not @ the limiter...cannot mean it can go any faster....in fact the esteem does 150+ in 3rd gear but tops out @ 165 at an rpm much lower than the rev limiter

[navin]

after reading this thread i came to one conclusion. Neither of you are driving my RS! :-)
GTO 7200 rpm is crazy in a stock car. Geezus where in Mumbai do you drive like that. I hope you are driving on race tracks with fellow drivers who know what they are doing and no pedestrians, rickshaws, cows, taxis, buses, kids, etc..please guys be careful there is not too many of us and we dont want to loose any.

Dont get me wrong I dont baby my car at 40kmph in city traffic but doing 0-100 in under 10 secs even the car can do it in city is dangerous. I hope it is not you guys i see weaving in and bobbing out of traffic at twice the traffic's speed.

Sorry to be a Party Pooper but guys Drive to Stay Alive.

[Boom Shiva]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

....in fact the esteem does 150+ in 3rd gear but tops out @ 165 at an rpm much lower than the rev limiter

I've done 180 in an MPFI Esteem...so was it just a bad case of speedo error? I couldn't really judge the speed myself because I'm used to my Lancer, and this car felt like it was flying all over the place.

[GTO]

Vandan, you look at the RPM meter, its still not in red, proving the car could have easily exceeded 180kmph. Thats the point surprise wanted to mention.

An astounding NO!! The wind factor and higher gearing will prevent it from redlining in top gear. Except for my Diesel Jeep and the Accent CRDI, I have not seen a single car redlining in top gear.

GTO...agree with your pic... .however at high speeds almost all speedos exihibit an error and the acceleration gigures are measured by specialised instruments....hence while the speed may show 190 the car may be doing 178 for all you know...In general, at high speeds the speedos show more than the actual speed....

I always account for about 8-10% speedo error. Realistically, I think it was about 165.

GTO

[kooldude]

can some one tell me the 0-100 timings of the carb esteem

[imjimmy]

how many quality magazines we are talking abt here....we do not have any in india apart from ACI and the biased Overdrive...others simply do not exist...there is a newsly launched TopGear in india now...lets see how it turns out..

I agree with that totally. OD and other mags in India apparently contradict themselves all the time.
They are almost always biased. The FE figures are never consistent across cars and same with the top speeds.

Only the ACI seems to do unbiased and authentic reporting(to some degree atleast). Makes no sense to look at figures released by other mags and publications.

And leave the figures aside any one who has driven these cars knows. I have both the swift and the Baleno. My cousin has a MPFI esteem which i drive very often.. There's hardly any competition.
Baleno blows both away!

Sorry to be a Party Pooper but guys Drive to Stay Alive.

Sorry for digressing, i guess the thread was about Baleno vs Vtec.. That, I guess is a fair comparison..instead of Esteem vs Baleno.

[artofzen]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Aseem,
Agree in 3rd gear...but only a FOOL will be keeping the Baleno in 3rd then....I would shift to 2nd and peacefully overtake the CRDI ..while the CRDI guy will need to shift up even more (did you know??) to 4th to reach the magical 3 figure mark...I will reach there in 2nd only....by then he will be looking at the clean exhaust of the Baleno...since unlike CRDI...my beauty does not spew smoke like clint eastwood...and still beats the CRDi in top whack by 20kmph

:

Uh I am not starting another comparison here,but did you mean CRDi cant touch 3 digit mark in 3rd?....

[Buffetfan]

this is correct...Accent Crdi cannot touch 100kmph in 3rd gear..

I cannot find my favourite Autocar here...but just quoting figures for Crdi from indiacar.net (I remember reading this in another auto magazine though)


Source mentioned on the site is Autocar india...june 2004

www.indiacar.com/roadtest/roadtest_new/ accent_crdi_o4_a/techspec.htm

Max speed in gears are

5th 162/4800
4th 133/4800
3rd 97/4800
2nd 65/4800
1st 37/4800