[punitkakri]

Originally Posted by Caramelo

just looks at each car in a neutral way. and looks at the features list and compare it.these little things which makes life easy and end of the day make that significant difference.

Precisely what i`m trying to do. Although the Laura may have more features than a Jetta, the Laura is out of contention.

Another thing i wanted to ask you guys. Can i consider a used Nissan Teana. I need a bit of clarity on this because there are a few Teanas on offer around 15 lacs. The things i`m concerned about are After sales service, maintanience and mileage. Heard it`s really low. Guys help out please.

I have also asked the Hyundai dealer for Optional airbags for the Sonata apart from the front ones. He says a kit of 4 comes for about 40K. Someone please confirm this.

Now another thing i got to know about the 1.9 Trendline. We cannot put leather seats because they obstruct the airbags located on the front seats. Is there any workaround for this? The VW dealer was not sure.

[punitkakri]

Recapping the earlier post

The day started with the VW Jetta test drive at 11.15 am. The car i drove was the 1.9 Comfortline. Mom sat at the back seat. Here are my findings from the test drive.

• Engine seemed refined enough.
• The auto gearbox seemed to be working well.
• The steering felt assured. The handling seemed good.
• Felt a slight craving for a little more power.
• Front seat and driving position were really comfortable.
• My mom felt comfortable at the rear seat as well.
• The overall ride seemed a bit firm although acceptable.
• The bottom of the car tended to scrape the really high breakers at Carter road.
• The car behavior was good over the bad roads. Mom didn`t complain at all.
• The brakes were extremely good.
• Cabin felt fairly silent.
• Lots of cubby holes for storage. Nice touch.
• Car seems to be put together extremely well.
• The car had 47,890 on odometer. No rattle at all.
• A/C was cool though i felt the Music system could have sounded a bit better. It had 8 speakers after all. However in itself the system wasn`t bad.

Overall impression was pretty good. Will also drive the 1.9 trendline tomorrow.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye
Punit,
I have the Laura Tsi and the A/C feels very weak.
So please plan to test the Laura and Jetta at the hottest time of day - also park the car for 5/10 minutes in the sun sometime midway your test drive, and then restart the TD to see how much time the A/C takes to make you comfortable. This is a serious issue...

Next up came the Laura Elegance 1.9 A/T at 2.00 pm. post lunch. Mom accompanied me here as well.

• The car had about 28,790 on the odometer.
• In many ways the engine response was similar to the Jetta.
• For some reason i felt some turbo lag which was not that apparent in the Jetta.
• Felt nosiser than the Jetta.
• Built seemed good, but somehow Jetta won here.
• Definite buzzing sound from the left side.
• Ride was decent and fairly simlar to what the Jetta offered.
• The A/C definitely took a loong time to cool as rightly pointed out by anandpadhye.
• The overallcabin quality felt better in the Jetta.
• Brakes were great.
• Mom felt fine at the rear.

Overall impression was good. However it needed to be great to stay in contention rimarily because

• Horrendous after sales service. So to compensate that i needed something mind blowing which didn`t happen.
• VW as a brand seems better to me. From what i know and have heard VW do not have huge service issues.
• Skoda is offering only a 2 year non extendible waaranty compared to the Jetta`s 4.
• The overall build of the Jetta is deinitely better. Thats not to say the Laura isnt good, but Jetta takes the cake here.

So here comes my first decision. Skoda Laura is no longer in contention. I gave the car it`s chance. It had to be something special to overcome the negativity of After sales Service. No offence meant to Laura owners, but between the two i felt that the Jetta was the better package.

Next up came the Cruze 2.0 LTZ manual. Mom in the back seat.

• The car had about 6216 km on the Odometer.
• Well firstly great driving position. Extremely sporting interiors.
• Front passenger space is great.
• Interior are good looking but the Jetta and Laura interiors seemed to be higher in quality.
• The glovebox at the top of the dash didn`t shut properly and there was a spacing when it was closed. For a similar one in jetta they had felt lining. The sunglass holder at the top right too seemed lacking in quality.
• Engine felt a lot more powerful.
• I felt the clutch was especially hard, in the sense that once it is pressed down it tends to pop up with some force once pressure is lessened. Is it beacuse it is a relatively newer car compared to others or did some of you guys have felt this as well.
• Huge tubo lag at lower speeds.
• Gearbox slightly notchy.
• However at higher speeds the experience increased for the better exponentially.
• Ride quality is pretty good.
• Lots of features provided including the sun/ moon roof.
• Cabin noise was lesser.
• A/C and stereo were good.
• Mom was okay with the ride at the back, though she did say that she felt the car roof was a bit lower than others.
• The handling was decent though the steering felt a little light.

Overall it was good. The city driving can be a bit ardous but the the ride increases with the speed. Turbo lag is a bit of an issue though. Two years warranty on this one. Stays in contention for the time being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesc
The new Sonata looks the most compelling IF they are able to launch it in the next 6 months or so. That car should IMO leave the rest of the cars in your choice range reasonably behind. Here are my two cents on the issue. Try to locate a good used Sonata. I don't think you should have much of a problem in locating one. As many people on the forum have already pointed out, the existing Sonata has a terrible resale value so you should get a good one under or around the 8L range. With that in hand you can possible wait for 6-8 months for Hyundai to launch the new version of the sedan while at the same time driving (or being driven around) in a credible vehicle. If you have to buy new now then I suggest you go with the VW Jetta. Cruze is a head-turner but like you rightly pointed out the back seat (esp. the headroom) is cramped. VW is solid understated car that will get the job done. Laura - don't consider it. I say that even though I myself own a Skoda Octy. It's a wonderful car but with Skoda you live in a constant fear of falling into the A.S.S. mess that they have created for themselves.

Well i do feel that the Sonata embera`s ibteriors are not as good as the Transform. I'll be relly happy if someone wants to sell the Transform. I`ll try finding it. I'm not totally averse to picking up a new Transform though the test drive is still pending. Well i`m just hoping that somehow a used tranform is up for grabs which i can take up for the time being.
Further comments reserved until i test drive the Transform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viraj_s85
I guess Punit already gave the answer in details with Pro's n Con's of SUV n Sedan

However my suggestion was purely based on personal experience, I never said that Jetta, Laura are not as comfortable as Fortuner... Each car has its Pro's and Con's and definition of comfort may vary from person to person...

Just to give an example:

-----

So its all depending upon person to person...


@Punit : I did make some calls to check the launch of Maruti Kizashi there was a mix reply ... but I think Maruti is keeping it as Diwali gift for Indian Market... (not too sure though)

I`m hoping the Kizashi makes it in time. Would love to have a greater choice. By the way guys any idea on the Renault Fluence.

The schedule for tomorrow`s test drives.

11.30 am 1.9 Jetta Trendline
2.30 pm 2.0 Sonata Transform CRDI AT

Will update about these once i`m done

[punitkakri]

Next day at 11.45am
Next in line came the VW Jetta Trendline 1.9. Clocked 12,480 kms.

• Traits regarding ride, engine refinement were similar to the DSG.
• In spite of lacking Leather seats the seating was pretty comfortable.
• The gearshift was a bit notchy.
• The clutch seemed to act fine.
• Music system didnt` seem as good as the DSG one.
• The A/c Chilled in a short while.
• For some reason there was no rear armrest.

Impressions were pretty good. Similar to the DSG. Although i feel that the DSG at 1.5 lakhs more expensive and more comfortable to dive and be in is the way to go for Jetta.

Next came in Sonata Crdi at 3.00 pm. It was an automatic version which had about 9,000 kms on the odometer. Mom accompanied me here.

• Well the cabin is excellent though it just comes in beige. I would have preferred Black.
• Spacious interiors with a long equipment list.
• Interiors well built though not as good as Jetta.
• There is huge room at the front and the rear as well. The best among the cars tested.
• No rear A/c vents, though a/c was excellent.
• Good music system.
• Lots of extra features.
• Good refined deisel engine.
• Auto gearbox didn`t do the job as well as the DSG of Jetta.
• There is a bit of turbo lag here as well, though not as much as cruze and Laura.
• Great ride, even over bumpy roads. Mom was noticeably impressed.
• Handling not as great as Jetta.
• Steering slightly light and wobbly.

Overall impression: Pretty good. Good comfort and equipment levels, though driveability could have been a tad better.

Well now my race boils down to Sonata 2.0 Crdi, 1.9 Jetta Comfortline/ Trendline and Cruze LTZ manual. After the Road test what do you guys think?

[sbraj]

Originally Posted by punitkakri

Well now my race boils down to Sonata 2.0 Crdi, 1.9 Jetta Comfortline/ Trendline and Cruze LTZ manual. After the Road test what do you guys think?

I would rule out Cruze due to the slightly cramped rear seat. It is probably designed more like a driver's car.

Choice between Sonata and Jetta, hmmmmm, very difficult. Jetta looks more modern, but one cannot discount the A.S.S. of Hyundai. I am not very confident of VW's A.S.S. Extremely difficult choice to make.

How keen are you on the looks of the car? Meaning would you go for a good looking but slightly uncertain car or a rather dull looking but less uncertain option?

[navin]

Originally Posted by sbraj

I am not very confident of VW's A.S.S. Extremely difficult choice to make.

Same here. I visited the Autobahn Skoda service center today and found a few of my favourite guys missing (they have left).

Since VW is Skoda's mother brand I wonder (I can be completely wrong) if they have shifted to VW. Then again these guys were the guys who were most responsive so VW's A.S.S might actually benefit from these guys.

[anandpadhye]

Punit.

The Laura and Jetta diesel engines (currently PD) will be replaced with CRDi units on 1st April 2010. Buying a diesel Laura or a diesel Jetta with current PD engine is hence not the best thing to do. The newer ones are surely going to be modern in terms of NVH, FE and emission.

[rohitrk]

Correction : Owning Embera CRDi I can confirm that there are rear AC vents well hidden under the front seat. Does a great job in keeping the entire cabin at same constant temperature.

Originally Posted by punitkakri

Next day at 11.45am
Next in line came the VW Jetta Trendline 1.9. Clocked 12,480 kms.

• Traits regarding ride, engine refinement were similar to the DSG.
• In spite of lacking Leather seats the seating was pretty comfortable.
• The gearshift was a bit notchy.
• The clutch seemed to act fine.
• Music system didnt` seem as good as the DSG one.
• The A/c Chilled in a short while.
• For some reason there was no rear armrest.

Impressions were pretty good. Similar to the DSG. Although i feel that the DSG at 1.5 lakhs more expensive and more comfortable to dive and be in is the way to go for Jetta.

Next came in Sonata Crdi at 3.00 pm. It was an automatic version which had about 9,000 kms on the odometer. Mom accompanied me here.

• Well the cabin is excellent though it just comes in beige. I would have preferred Black.
• Spacious interiors with a long equipment list.
• Interiors well built though not as good as Jetta.
• There is huge room at the front and the rear as well. The best among the cars tested.
• No rear A/c vents, though a/c was excellent.

Correction : Owning Embera CRDi I can confirm that there are rear AC vents well hidden under the front seat. Does a great job in keeping the entire cabin at same constant temperature.

• Good music system.
• Lots of extra features.
• Good refined deisel engine.
• Auto gearbox didn`t do the job as well as the DSG of Jetta.
• There is a bit of turbo lag here as well, though not as much as cruze and Laura.
• Great ride, even over bumpy roads. Mom was noticeably impressed.
• Handling not as great as Jetta.
• Steering slightly light and wobbly.

Overall impression: Pretty good. Good comfort and equipment levels, though driveability could have been a tad better.

Well now my race boils down to Sonata 2.0 Crdi, 1.9 Jetta Comfortline/ Trendline and Cruze LTZ manual. After the Road test what do you guys think?

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by rohitrk

Correction : Owning Embera CRDi I can confirm that there are rear AC vents well hidden under the front seat. Does a great job in keeping the entire cabin at same constant temperature.

i thought those are only for the feet and come on only when the ac is set for the feet also??

[Caramelo]

see now lets just say you like all the cars. now look for your needs.

1) is this going to be your family car (people sitting at the back). ask you mom which car she feels more comfy. don't be surprised when she says sonata. the rear seats are like a good ol sofa. at her age good back support and lumbar support and spacial real estate.(legroom headroom, elbowroom) is more important than handling and driving dynamics or interior colors.

2) your needs. if you are driving the car. which car would feel comfortable in. i am not talking about handling and fun to drive nature stuff. in our traffic conditions which car is the best. and if are not driving the car(you mentioned on 40% driving rest 60% chauffeur driven let the driver do all the work) plus sonata looks better with a driver (big car) then the jetta.

3) bigger is not necessarily the better nor is buying a small car at the large car price. so think carefully before you sign the dotted line.

you should ask for a big discount on the sonata. and lots of freebies. 95K to 1 lac discount. i and if you are buying the car for 5 years forget about the resale value. in next 2 years there will be new sonata and a new jetta. (also a polo based sedan) so i don't think spending 16-18 lacs on a jetta is wise. i say go for sonata.

[buz]

Punit - just saw that you are moving to New Delhi soon. Why are you taking the test drives in Mumbai then? Your decision may just get biased by the considerations of this city. In Delhi, you will get wider roads, more maneuvering space at higher speeds and better roads (not talking about sadar bazaar/karol bagh interior type areas). These issues about turbo lag could just be a deciding factor. If the move is soon enough, would suggest repeating the exercise there. Moreover, you would have paid more in terms of Octroi and road tax in Mumbai. This again may just prove to be a deciding factor for upward movement in the choice of vehicle in New Delhi.

[Akki_5]

I had compared the Jetta 1.9 Trendline and the Laura FL Elegance A/T when i had to make this choice. I found the Laura to be better on multiple counts.

Originally Posted by navin

Same here. I visited the Autobahn Skoda service center today and found a few of my favourite guys missing (they have left).

Since VW is Skoda's mother brand I wonder (I can be completely wrong) if they have shifted to VW. Then again these guys were the guys who were most responsive so VW's A.S.S might actually benefit from these guys.

+1. It's sad that Mr. Chajju has moved out of AutoBahn. He was probably the best they had. I went to him after reading your post recommending him in one of the threads.
BTW, who would you now recommend at AutoBahn?

[ivar1951]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Punit.

The Laura and Jetta diesel engines (currently PD) will be replaced with CRDi units on 1st April 2010. Buying a diesel Laura or a diesel Jetta with current PD engine is hence not the best thing to do. The newer ones are surely going to be modern in terms of NVH, FE and emission.

What's your source of information as to the date (1.4.2010) these cars will get the CRDi engine?

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by ivar1951

What's your source of information as to the date (1.4.2010) these cars will get the CRDi engine?

I was "informed" on the condition of anonymity a day before I signed the cheque for Laura Tsi.

1.4.2010 is when the Euro 4 norms will be enforced (unless the refinaries are not ready and want some more time). There is no plan to enhance PD engines for Euro 4 compliance. Of course, not sure if VW group does it's production planning jointly with the refinaries - that would be insider trading

[diveshsingh]

I own cruze automatic myself, seeing your requirement I would advice you to go for the jetta. Had you been driving the car yourself 60% of the time, I would have strongly suggested you to go for cruze automatic.

[punitkakri]

Originally Posted by sbraj

I would rule out Cruze due to the slightly cramped rear seat. It is probably designed more like a driver's car.

Choice between Sonata and Jetta, hmmmmm, very difficult. Jetta looks more modern, but one cannot discount the A.S.S. of Hyundai. I am not very confident of VW's A.S.S. Extremely difficult choice to make.

How keen are you on the looks of the car? Meaning would you go for a good looking but slightly uncertain car or a rather dull looking but less uncertain option?

Well looks matter to some extent. I am not averse to either the look of the Jetta or the Sonata. Both seem elegant cars and have good road presence. So not a huge issue here.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Punit.

The Laura and Jetta diesel engines (currently PD) will be replaced with CRDi units on 1st April 2010. Buying a diesel Laura or a diesel Jetta with current PD engine is hence not the best thing to do. The newer ones are surely going to be modern in terms of NVH, FE and emission.

Originally Posted by Caramelo

see now lets just say you like all the cars. now look for your needs.

1) is this going to be your family car (people sitting at the back). ask you mom which car she feels more comfy. don't be surprised when she says sonata. the rear seats are like a good ol sofa. at her age good back support and lumbar support and spacial real estate.(legroom headroom, elbowroom) is more important than handling and driving dynamics or interior colors.

2) your needs. if you are driving the car. which car would feel comfortable in. i am not talking about handling and fun to drive nature stuff. in our traffic conditions which car is the best. and if are not driving the car(you mentioned on 40% driving rest 60% chauffeur driven let the driver do all the work) plus sonata looks better with a driver (big car) then the jetta.

3) bigger is not necessarily the better nor is buying a small car at the large car price. so think carefully before you sign the dotted line.

you should ask for a big discount on the sonata. and lots of freebies. 95K to 1 lac discount. i and if you are buying the car for 5 years forget about the resale value. in next 2 years there will be new sonata and a new jetta. (also a polo based sedan) so i don't think spending 16-18 lacs on a jetta is wise. i say go for sonata.

Hyundai cars have committed to at least 90K discounts which i feel will be pushed up again. Now, i have driven the Sonata as well as Jetta. both are fine with me.
My concerns moving ahead are.

• When is the new Sonata headed here. What can be the expected price.
• If the Jetta is replced by the Crdi in April what kind of price difference can we expect.
• If prices of both cars increase by a huge amount, i do not want to be in a position as to not afford either car post budget hike plus the factors discussed above.

Originally Posted by buz

Punit - just saw that you are moving to New Delhi soon. Why are you taking the test drives in Mumbai then? Your decision may just get biased by the considerations of this city. In Delhi, you will get wider roads, more maneuvering space at higher speeds and better roads (not talking about sadar bazaar/karol bagh interior type areas). These issues about turbo lag could just be a deciding factor. If the move is soon enough, would suggest repeating the exercise there. Moreover, you would have paid more in terms of Octroi and road tax in Mumbai. This again may just prove to be a deciding factor for upward movement in the choice of vehicle in New Delhi.

I`ll be picking up the vehicle in New Delhi itself. I`m test driving the vehicles here as wont have much time once i reach there, since i`ll need the vehicle quick. Now with regard to the roads agreed the roads are wider, but the traffic situation is increasingly deteriorating and bumper to bumper traffic will be there. Also see my budget is 20 L max(on road) for New Delhi.

Originally Posted by diveshsingh

I own cruze automatic myself, seeing your requirement I would advice you to go for the jetta. Had you been driving the car yourself 60% of the time, I would have strongly suggested you to go for cruze automatic.

Hmm i haven`t driven the Cruze automatic. If possible please highlight the strengths weaknesses vis a vis the VW DSG.