Shameful Incidents in Mumbai on New Year's eve - Gateway of India NOW JW Marriott

Thad E Ginathom · 8th January 2008, 12:45

Nitin and benbsb29... you are both right.

But, in how many 'good' families is the boy permitted to bully his little sister ---because that's what boys 'do'?

Sure: teach the girl to kick back, but, more important to prevent the problem in the first place.

Many of us have had to struggle and take on board different attitudes to gender, race, etc as we have grown up and got older. Education is not even finished for us as adults; we must try to see that our children have a better start.

route666 · 8th January 2008, 13:07

everyday in our country young girls are raped and murdered and we are making such a big issue of this incident and ignoring the bigger is picture is plain ignorance.the new year eve teasing is a normal happening in most countries because both the parties in the incident will be intoxicated by either alcohol, drugs or the occassion.

my suggestion to crub this kind of atrocities is to make prostitution legal in our country..

Thad E Ginathom · 8th January 2008, 14:10

It is most certainly not normal in most countries.

For a start, most foreigners who visit or take an interest in India are baffled and shocked by the term 'eve teasing' --- the trivialising reference to physical, mental and emotional assault. One big advance is that the newspapers that I've seen are not using this silly phrase; they are talking about 'molestation'. The media seeing this for what it is is a good start.

All kinds of laws get broken every day. Some involve violence. Some of that violence is against women. There is no excuse for violence, in or outside the home.

This is a big issue, and I am not ignorant.

amit · 8th January 2008, 15:23

We lose one silly cricket match and for the three days thats all that the news channels and newspapers are talking and discussing about. This incident is now forgotten by everyone. Three days back newspapers were asking people if they have seen the guy in the white shirt who is supposedly has a big hand in this incident, today we only know Ponting and Bucknor. Do we even know if the 14 accused are still in jail or out and getting ready to grope some other woman?

Sydney test has outraged the average Indian more then this incident. Sad but true. No wonder the cops believe molestation is a small and trivial matter.

suman · 8th January 2008, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

Do we even know if the 14 accused are still in jail or out and getting ready to grope some other woman?

Amit, lets assume we do know that the guys are out & getting ready to grope other women - what would be our next step?

My personal opinion (and I'm ready to get flamed for this) - in similar circumstances, I WOULD NOT VOLUNTARILY walk down any street in any city at 1 in the morning accompanied by a lady on a day that there are likely to be a large number of inebriated persons on the streets. And, even if I was ever caught in a situation where I had no options - I would digest (in silence) any comments that were being passed and move on & definitely not retaliate by abusing back.

Having said that - I'm not under any circumstances supporting the actions of these lumpen elements & would probably string them up from the nearest tree if I got hold of them

benbsb29 · 8th January 2008, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by suman

My personal opinion (and I'm ready to get flamed for this) - in similar circumstances, I WOULD NOT VOLUNTARILY walk down any street in any city at 1 in the morning accompanied by a lady on a day that there are likely to be a large number of inebriated persons on the streets. And, even if I was ever caught in a situation where I had no options - I would digest (in silence) any comments that were being passed and move on & definitely not retaliate by abusing back.

And to think some of my friends called me boring when i told them i spent New Year's happily at home with my wife and relatives, rather than be out on the streets or in some pub and then complain about some unhappy incident later.

amit · 8th January 2008, 17:29

Until and unless we don't take molestation seriously and punish the men who do it harshly, things will not improve. Today it's a mob molesting women on public roads, tomorrow it could get worse if we don't get cracking on this issue. Sadly, we still are not taking this seriously. Every time this happens we get 'outraged', it makes headlines and a few days later the incident is forgotten. The eve teasers know this and thats why it keeps happening.

A couple of months back a 10 year old girl was eve teased by a group of guys in a jeep. She ultimately made it to the hospital with broken bones in the hands and back as she got dragged by the jeep. As usual, it outraged the 'safest city for women in India' and nothing happened. The cops made tall promises and nothing was ultimately done.

Read about it here.

vivekiny2k · 8th January 2008, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajitkommini

Hmm... seems a pretty soulless way to me. Luckily this is not the sole opinion around here

you shudn't be surprised though, you see most of the women still expect men to fight this war for them (barring a handful of them who continue to fight), and we the saviours have been doing it for last 8 days on the forum, no wonder we have such protective attitude.

Nitin · 8th January 2008, 20:34

I've seen the difference in many others countries. Most women stand up and face who ever threatens them.very rarely does a lady ask a man for help. I've seen women here in the US,who give a fig about things and take control of situations as if it were nothing. Thats the self-confidence this country gives its citizens.

As things have changed over the years,women (atleast city bred) have slowly started to be a bit more courageous. Simple thing that I have always said- if a lady can wear something she's comfortable in,good for her. She should be able to take care of herself,no matter what.

As vivek said,most men tend to be protective to the women around them (atleast 70-80% of the time). But if the odds are raised,its probably safest to get out of a place/situation at the earliest. Cops may or may not help,hence its not worth taking a risk and trusting them.

Another wonderful incident:
Cops harass couple sitting in park-Bangalore-Cities-The Times of India

suman · 9th January 2008, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

A couple of months back a 10 year old girl was eve teased by a group of guys in a jeep. She ultimately made it to the hospital with broken bones in the hands and back as she got dragged by the jeep.

Yeah, I remember that one vividly. The poor kid was so badly traumatized, she was wimpering all along. Heart went out to her. Made my blood boil

vivekiny2k · 9th January 2008, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitin

Another wonderful incident:
Cops harass couple sitting in park-Bangalore-Cities-The Times of India

"roughing somebody up" has been so loosely used in india....Judiciary has to wake up and start fining these cops. they will not understand the civil rights and respect until home ministry starts paying in lakhs for each incident.

How can anyone tolerate somebody getting physical for no reason?

amtak · 9th January 2008, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

How can anyone tolerate somebody getting physical for no reason?

The problem here is the police are "public servants" and as per our laws, one cannot hit a public servant while on duty as that amounts to a cmininal offence.

OT: If someone hits your car and runs away and you feel like throwing a stone at his car and hope that his windshield breaks, PLEASE DON'T DO it. as that would be taken as attempt to murder!

AMATMO · 9th January 2008, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajitkommini

Hmm... seems a pretty soulless way to me. Luckily this is not the sole opinion around here

you see my point was womans profession does not justify such incidents

you cannot say all this happend because indian girls are not empowered
i am sure even if so called empowered women was caught amongst these 70 men,she couldnt have done anything

infact showing courage might have futher instigated the men anyway

men like these dont even bother to check a womans portfolio
they are just interested in their body thats it

lets face it this incident took place in the presence of their husbands
so clearly even men couldnt do anything about it
it was more about being outnumbered

vivekiny2k · 10th January 2008, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by route666

everyday in our country young girls are raped and murdered and we are making such a big issue of this incident and ignoring the bigger is picture is plain ignorance.the new year eve teasing is a normal happening in most countries because both the parties in the incident will be intoxicated by either alcohol, drugs or the occassion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

It is most certainly not normal in most countries.

This misinformation could be behind the mob mentality, which is trying to act cool with the supposedly 'normal' and cool acts done in developed countries.

@route666, what you are trying to say is incidents happen, the big difference is 'against the will'. even in developed countries, forcible molestation is rare (not non existent). besides, pointless comparison with another society is not an answer, unless we have something to learn from them.

deathwalkr · 10th January 2008, 09:29

All 14 of the accused claim they had nothing to do with the molestation and were just there wondering what the fuss was about when their photos were clicked!
how very convenient.but hey whats the old sayin? you are innocent till proven guilty or was it the other way around?

ah well...

8th January 2008, 12:45	#151
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 26,457 Times	Nitin and benbsb29... you are both right. But, in how many 'good' families is the boy permitted to bully his little sister ---because that's what boys 'do'? Sure: teach the girl to kick back, but, more important to prevent the problem in the first place. Many of us have had to struggle and take on board different attitudes to gender, race, etc as we have grown up and got older. Education is not even finished for us as adults; we must try to see that our children have a better start.
	() Thanks

8th January 2008, 13:07	#152
route666 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: cochin Posts: 72 Thanked: 0 Times	everyday in our country young girls are raped and murdered and we are making such a big issue of this incident and ignoring the bigger is picture is plain ignorance.the new year eve teasing is a normal happening in most countries because both the parties in the incident will be intoxicated by either alcohol, drugs or the occassion. my suggestion to crub this kind of atrocities is to make prostitution legal in our country..
	() Thanks

8th January 2008, 14:10	#153
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,008 Thanked: 26,457 Times	It is most certainly not normal in most countries. For a start, most foreigners who visit or take an interest in India are baffled and shocked by the term 'eve teasing' --- the trivialising reference to physical, mental and emotional assault. One big advance is that the newspapers that I've seen are not using this silly phrase; they are talking about 'molestation'. The media seeing this for what it is is a good start. All kinds of laws get broken every day. Some involve violence. Some of that violence is against women. There is no excuse for violence, in or outside the home. This is a big issue, and I am not ignorant.
	() Thanks

8th January 2008, 15:23	#154
amit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 3,717 Thanked: 449 Times	We lose one silly cricket match and for the three days thats all that the news channels and newspapers are talking and discussing about. This incident is now forgotten by everyone. Three days back newspapers were asking people if they have seen the guy in the white shirt who is supposedly has a big hand in this incident, today we only know Ponting and Bucknor. Do we even know if the 14 accused are still in jail or out and getting ready to grope some other woman? Sydney test has outraged the average Indian more then this incident. Sad but true. No wonder the cops believe molestation is a small and trivial matter.
	() Thanks

8th January 2008, 17:29	#157
amit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 3,717 Thanked: 449 Times	Until and unless we don't take molestation seriously and punish the men who do it harshly, things will not improve. Today it's a mob molesting women on public roads, tomorrow it could get worse if we don't get cracking on this issue. Sadly, we still are not taking this seriously. Every time this happens we get 'outraged', it makes headlines and a few days later the incident is forgotten. The eve teasers know this and thats why it keeps happening. A couple of months back a 10 year old girl was eve teased by a group of guys in a jeep. She ultimately made it to the hospital with broken bones in the hands and back as she got dragged by the jeep. As usual, it outraged the 'safest city for women in India' and nothing happened. The cops made tall promises and nothing was ultimately done. Read about it here. Last edited by amit : 8th January 2008 at 17:32.
	() Thanks

8th January 2008, 20:34	#159
Nitin Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,294 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	I've seen the difference in many others countries. Most women stand up and face who ever threatens them.very rarely does a lady ask a man for help. I've seen women here in the US,who give a fig about things and take control of situations as if it were nothing. Thats the self-confidence this country gives its citizens. As things have changed over the years,women (atleast city bred) have slowly started to be a bit more courageous. Simple thing that I have always said- if a lady can wear something she's comfortable in,good for her. She should be able to take care of herself,no matter what. As vivek said,most men tend to be protective to the women around them (atleast 70-80% of the time). But if the odds are raised,its probably safest to get out of a place/situation at the earliest. Cops may or may not help,hence its not worth taking a risk and trusting them. Another wonderful incident: Cops harass couple sitting in park-Bangalore-Cities-The Times of India
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 09:29	#165
deathwalkr Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,284 Thanked: 4,145 Times View My Garage	All 14 of the accused claim they had nothing to do with the molestation and were just there wondering what the fuss was about when their photos were clicked! how very convenient.but hey whats the old sayin? you are innocent till proven guilty or was it the other way around? ah well...
	() Thanks