[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Irrespective, is there anything in that quote you don't believe or disagree with?

It would have been 'irrespective' if you had not quoted emphasising it as Dr. Fauci's. (The 'how dare you' should have raised a red flag).

One falsehood/ inaccuracy taints the entire message, does more harm than good. It's a favourite tactic if one wants to refute an argument with many subparts, and therefore one must be careful in such cases.

Sutripta

PS - This is irrespective of whether I agree with what is being said. I do, though emphasis might be different.

[proton]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

It would have been 'irrespective' if you had not quoted emphasising it as Dr. Fauci's. (The 'how dare you' should have raised a red flag).

One falsehood/ inaccuracy taints the entire message, does more harm than good. It's a favourite tactic if one wants to refute an argument with many subparts, and therefore one must be careful in such cases.

Sutripta

PS - This is irrespective of whether I agree with what is being said. I do, though emphasis might be different.

Irrespective means "apart from that" (wrong attribution to Dr Fauci):


irrespective
/ɪrɪˈspɛktɪv/

adjective
not taking (something) into account; regardless of.
"child benefit is paid irrespective of income levels"

So, apart from the wrong attribution, do you find anything wrong with the information?

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Attaching the original report
http://www.iiserpune.ac.in/userfiles...16_08_2020.pdf

According to the HT report below, Pune divisional commissioner says that this survey wasn't comprehensive enough, and more surveys with larger sample sizes are planned.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...rzujCwKIP.html

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by proton

So, apart from the wrong attribution, do you find anything wrong with the information?

Sounds plausible. Believe in that information because would like to believe in it. But in absolutely no position to pass expert or critical opinions on this matter. Which is why the attribution becomes very very important.

Sutripta

[PearlJam]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

It's a favourite tactic if one wants to refute an argument with many subparts

It's not a "tactic". Dr. Fauci is an extremely well known public figure, so when he says something, it has a lot of impact. People listen to him.

But, when you wrongly say that "Fauci said it", it is fake news. Period. It doesn't matter whether people agree with the quoted text. Especially when the text is not objective (like 1+1=2), but subjective, nuanced, and open to interpretation.

I realized that the OP has made a mistake - no problem at all. But atleast I would have expected some regret for it, instead of skirting around the mistake.

I don't want to go any more offtopic.

Originally Posted by proton

Apart from the wrong attribution, do you find anything wrong with the information?

There are tons of opinions on the internet, and we cannot react to each and every one of them, just because it's quoted. We don't even know who said it, nor his/her credentials!

As mentioned earlier by Thad E Ginathom in an earlier post, when something is quoted adhoc from the internet, we expect our members to also add their own reasoning/summary, on why they agree/disagree with some thing, to set some context.

Again, I don't want to go anymore offtopic.

[proton]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I think it is a political question, because it is politicians that, ultimately, are in charge and set true agenda.

So, other patients are dying, and will die, because their treatment is suspended. That does not say that covid actions are wrong, it says management of entire system is wrong.

Don't blame the virus: blame the bosses.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. As far as doing things wrong is concerned.

When the government changed, I was kind of happy. The old guys seemed to believe doing nothing was the best option, as no one could say they had been injured. Narasimh Rao actually said "Taking no decision is actually also a decision". Well the new guys seem to be following Hewlett Packard's strategy of "Burn and learn".

Am I happy that at least some decisions are being made, and like some authoritarian countries unhampered by majority inertia, also being carried out? All I can say is that by the time this is over, I'm going to be toast. Burn and learn, indeed.

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Sounds plausible. Believe in that information because would like to believe in it. But in absolutely no position to pass expert or critical opinions on this matter. Which is why the attribution becomes very very important.

Sutripta

By now we should have realised that those in authority aren’t to be blindly followed. The best option seems to be to look at the empirical data, learn from the real world experience of others. In this case, it would mean that the advice of those who have gone through the pandemic longer is better than those who have gone through it for a shorter period.

As for the actual post, what we have is the fallacy of poisoning of the well. Discrediting all the information, because a part of the information is wrong. Obviously, that need not be the case. As for the attribution, here is a quote from one of the rebuttal links:

"What you've found appears to be a series of paraphrases of things that Dr. Fauci has discussed throughout his career in presentations and interviews," the email read.

https://thelogicalindian.com/fact-ch...ny-fauci-22665

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by proton

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. As far as doing things wrong is concerned.

When the government changed, I was kind of happy. ... ...

Whilst I believe that it is true for all countries, I want to stress that I was talking about politicians internationally and generally.

As for the actual post, what we have is the fallacy of poisoning of the well. Discrediting all the information, because a part of the information is wrong. Obviously, that need not be the case. As for the attribution, here is a quote from one of the rebuttal links:

"What you've found appears to be a series of paraphrases of things that Dr. Fauci has discussed throughout his career in presentations and interviews," the email read.

Also known as throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Isn't there also a fallacy called appeal to authority? Actually, in topics such as this, it is hard not to, given that few of us are qualified to do anything else. What I know about viruses is exhausted in about ten seconds... And does anybody want to know my opinion about this one? They shouldn't!

[DigitalOne]

Continued lockdowns, economic distress, and panic have serious implications.

The amount of Americans reporting anxiety symptoms is triple the number of this time last year. The CDC reported that 11% of adults surveyed had seriously considered suicide in the past 30 days. The study showed “19% of Hispanics reported suicidal ideation” and “15% of Blacks reported suicidal thoughts.” As it relates to young adults, Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the CDC, said, “We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from [Covid-19].”

Cook County, Illinois Board President Toni Preckwinkle reported that “more African Americans” in her county “have died by suicide this year than during all of 2019.”

Source

U.S. Sees Deadly Drug Overdose Spike During Pandemic

New data from around the U.S. confirms that drug overdoses are spiking during the coronavirus pandemic, rising by roughly 18%.

Black and Latinx communities most vulnerable

Giroir noted that COVID-19 and the addiction crisis are hitting people of color especially hard, often in communities that lack access to affordable health care and addiction treatment.


The American Medical Association has also raised alarms about the link between COVID-19, addiction and drug overdoses, particularly in Black and Latinx communities.

Still favor lockdowns?

[2000rpm]

Hi Guys,

I need to travel from Mumbai to Pune on 29th August and return on 30th August.

Do we still require permits for travel between Mumbai and Pune?

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

Hi Guys,

I need to travel from Mumbai to Pune on 29th August and return on 30th August.

Do we still require permits for travel between Mumbai and Pune?

Yes, inter-district travel still needs e-pass. Its a fairly simple process which should get approved without much concern.

On a side note, people travelling to Konkan region from Mumbai using State buses can travel without e-pass but have to take Covid Test and produce negative result statement for a seat, plus a home quarantine for some time after reaching destination.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Yes, inter-district travel still needs e-pass. Its a fairly simple process which should get approved without much concern.

Has anyone actually on this forum been stopped or checked while moving out of Mumbai towards Lonavala / Pune / etc? i.e. An actual experience of doing this travel.

A friend of mine mentioned that he is aware of folks heading out of Mumbai and Thane district without any constraints recently. Don't have a direct contact based answer hence the question. I personally have gone to Thane and back, but I doubt that's being even stopped on a general basis.

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Has anyone actually on this forum been stopped or checked while moving out of Mumbai towards Lonavala / Pune / etc? i.e. An actual experience of doing this travel.

A friend of mine mentioned that he is aware of folks heading out of Mumbai and Thane district without any constraints recently. Don't have a direct contact based answer hence the question. I personally have gone to Thane and back, but I doubt that's being even stopped on a general basis.

I was chatting with someone known to me from Thane this morning when he shared with me the images of his drive along with few others around Mumbai. When asked about such restrictions, I was told that there were none and everything was absolutely normal and no one stopped them.

[NiInJa]

One of my relatives frequently travels to Satara from Pune and he has been stopped for an e-pass, although that can be attributed to the fact that Satara Commissioner is very strict (as per locals).

Might not be the case for Mumbai-Pune. Like I said, getting an e-pass online is fairly quick (my friend got one for Pune-Solapur few days back without any hiccups) and its better to be on safer side as we've heard some weird insurance cases for people travelling without an e-pass.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

One of my relatives frequently travels to Satara from Pune and he has been stopped for an e-pass, although that can be attributed to the fact that Satara Commissioner is very strict (as per locals).

I also heard from another friend in Pune that getting out of the city requires a pass; which is being done diligently (atleast on the day he went out). He wasn't sure if there's a check for entering the city.

My question was if there's a check at the toll gates/district borders. The only time I personally saw it happen was back in March when I rode from Bangalore to Mumbai. I was stopped at the toll gate just before Panvel; it was the day of Janta curfew and they were stopping folks traveling towards the city. They allowed me after I could show an ID with a local/Mumbai address.

Might not be the case for Mumbai-Pune. Like I said, getting an e-pass online is fairly quick (my friend got one for Pune-Solapur few days back without any hiccups) and its better to be on safer side as we've heard some weird insurance cases for people travelling without an e-pass.

Care to share the link? I'm guessing this is a Pune city based e-pass?

Edit: I'm guessing this is the link. This is primarily for Pune folks to exit the city. Don't think it'll help on @2000rpm's or my query.

Originally Posted by paragsachania

I was chatting with someone known to me from Thane this morning when he shared with me the images of his drive along with few others around Mumbai. When asked about such restrictions, I was told that there were none and everything was absolutely normal and no one stopped them.

Around Mumbai meaning within Mumbai, Thane and surrounding areas? That I'm aware doesn't require a pass - I personally have been able to go till Badlapur / Panvel / Bhiwandi / Vasai without seeing any active checks.

My question was to more longer - say Igatpuri or Lonavala (and ahead), without having to enter the main city areas (like Pune or Nasik).

[paragsachania]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Around Mumbai meaning within Mumbai, Thane and surrounding areas? That I'm aware doesn't require a pass - I personally have been able to go till Badlapur / Panvel / Bhiwandi / Vasai without seeing any active checks.

Similar locations that you mention below. I got curious after seeing the images of the drive and asked about any such restrictions since they had driven to popular monsoon destinations at least 100 km beyond the city's boundaries.

My question was to more longer - say Igatpuri or Lonavala (and ahead), without having to enter the main city areas (like Pune or Nasik).