[vharihar]

I am 50+. I need to travel with my 80+ years aged parents from Blore to Mumbai, drop them in Mumbai, and then I need to go to Noida on work relocation basis.

In the present times, are flights a safe option (from Covid PoV)?

I'm wavering bween:
1) Making all legs of this journey by flight, versus
2) Driving with parents from Blore to Mumbai by road with an overnight stay in a non-AC hotel in Belgavi or some such midway point, then driving onwards to Noida alone by car with two overnight halts in midway non-AC hotels, say in Godhra and Ajmer.

I'm having a hard time assessing (from Covid PoV) the risk of flight (closed air circulation in flight cabin for 2 hrs and then waiting in crowded lines in the arrival area which I presume will be time taking due to increased procedures upon arrival), versus risk of staying in hotels.

Thoughts?

[NiInJa]

^^^^

I am not sure though, but please check if Maharashtra state govt. requires fitness certificate for people travelling from other states. I read somewhere that it is been made mandatory for people coming from Gujarat.

Also, just my personal experience: My dad has been travelling from Pune and staying in hotels around Kolhapur due his work since last three months, his age is 59 and so far he has been doing good. Although his commute is always in a private vehicle and his work does not include meeting lot of people.

As far as air travel is concerned, one of my friend has been frequenting Mumbai-Delhi since unlock due to the nature of his work and he has not caught the virus yet So its very tricky to answer what would work or not work for you !

[am1m]

Can't wrap my head around this new requirement from some states for covid negative certificates for people coming in from other states. Don't those states still have the highest number of cases by far? So have they controlled the cases in the state so well that now people coming from outside are the biggest cause of new cases?! Sounds like a distraction from their lack of success in controlling cases to me!

Since we're working away from our home, we don't have a washing machine and my wife was just speaking to the lady who we give our laundry to over here. She was saying that she bought a machine a few years ago and started offering machine wash services to tourists. Was going well, but business has been so bad this season, she's looking for work as a dishwasher at a hotel and she's not sure even that will materialize because of the generally low season and threat of lock down re-imposition (which has been doing the rounds in the news/rumors the past few days).

Can't believe that some states were even considering re-imposing lock down! Did it do wonders to 'control the cases' the last time around?!

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by vharihar

I am 50+. I need to travel with my 80+ years aged parents from Blore to Mumbai, drop them in Mumbai, and then I need to go to Noida on work relocation basis.

In the present times, are flights a safe option (from Covid PoV)?

I'm wavering bween:
1) Making all legs of this journey by flight, versus
2) Driving with parents from Blore to Mumbai by road with an overnight stay in a non-AC hotel in Belgavi or some such midway point, then driving onwards to Noida alone by car with two overnight halts in midway non-AC hotels, say in Godhra and Ajmer.

I'm having a hard time assessing (from Covid PoV) the risk of flight (closed air circulation in flight cabin for 2 hrs and then waiting in crowded lines in the arrival area which I presume will be time taking due to increased procedures upon arrival), versus risk of staying in hotels.

Thoughts?

I flew last week from Delhi to Goa. Initially I had planned to drive due to the fear of flying but finally opted for a flight. Wore my N95 and a face shield which was provided by the airline and was mandatory. I didn’t feel too unsafe at the airport but then I often spend all day at malls at least twice a week. As long as I am not in a small crowded space with other people, I feel safe. Airports like malls are indoor spaces but the volume of air is large. So I don’t see too much risk of contamination. The problem is on board the aircraft. We have a small space where you are with other people for hours. I was disappointed with the measures taken both at Delhi airport as well as onbaord the aircraft. No social distancing was maintained at the entrance of the airport where they check your tickets, nor at security checks. I had to ask people to stay at a distance. Plenty of people were wearing their masks below their noses or chins and no one at any point instructed people to maintain distance or wear their masks. I had assumed that the airport would be very strict. No one checked the Arogya Setu app at any point. Even on board the aircraft, I was shocked to see people wearing their masks below their noses. A person came to sit behind us and kept his mask below his nose despite several reminders. I pointed this out to various crew members but most of them interacted with him without being concerned about the state of his mask. Fortunately he moved to another seat. So all in all, there is some risk. I would be fine with younger people taking the risk but at the age of 80 plus, I would hesitate to do so with your parents.

Coming to road travel, we had booked and planned our long road trip thoroughly. I don’t really see much risk in hotels at all. The previous occupant would have left the room hours or probably even days earlier. You can request a room that was not recently occupied. All you need to do is open the windows if any and leave the door ajar for about 10 minutes. Then if you are worried, take some sanitiser and napkins and clean any touch points like light switches, TV and AC remotes and bathroom taps. You can spray the toilet as well. I wouldn’t worry about bedsheets but you can always take your own in the car if you are worried. I don’t see any benefit in choosing a non ac room unless there is central aircon and you are worried about that. If the room has its own ac unit, I don’t see any harm in using it. Either way, you have to decide if it is better to risk it for a few hours or a couple of days. Looking at your parents age, I personally would choose to drive. Wishing you a safe trip, whichever option you end up choosing.

[am1m]

https://twitter.com/FaheemYounus/sta...33253989322752
https://twitter.com/FaheemYounus/sta...34799490506752
https://twitter.com/FaheemYounus/sta...22570233438208

Flying during pandemic

Do:
- Wear K95 or N95 mask
- Prefer a window seat
- Use hand sanitizer
- Enjoy airline food


Don’t:
- Shake hands (high risk)
- Wipe your seat (low risk)
- Fear recirculated air (it’s filtered)
- Travel if sick


How to relax:

Walk, run, bike, exercise outdoors. Don’t wear a mask
Socializing outdoors with 6ft distance and a mask is safe
Meeting relatives? No handshakes, no hugs, 6-ft distance + mask will greatly reduce the risk
Complete isolation is NOT the answer
Avoid gyms


Key COVID Timeline:

No live virus found 9-days post symptom onset. Meaning COVID patients aren’t contagious beyond 10-days
Don’t repeat PCR test as dead virus can lurk around for >80 days!
This meta-analysis reviewed 79 studies with 5340 individuals
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This dude just keeps delivering the goods. I wish more governments were putting out correct, rational messaging like this.

[Gansan]

PM to visit three different vaccine manufacturing facilities tomorrow for review of status. Zydus Cadila, Serum Institute of India and Bharat Biotech. While the first and third are developing their own vaccines, Serum Institute is the Indian partner for the Oxford University - Astra Zeneca vaccine.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...QIfM8SjvN.html

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by vharihar

I am 50+. I need to travel with my 80+ years aged parents from Blore to Mumbai, drop them in Mumbai, and then I need to go to Noida on work relocation basis.

In the present times, are flights a safe option (from Covid PoV)?

In present times, I would say the flights are indeed the safest and quickest option. The amount of protocols they have to adhere and indeed they are, makes the whole thing secure. Besides, I have always maintained that as long as you are wearing the mask correctly and not touching the face every now and then, it’s all good.

Road travel is always uncomfortable for elderly people and taking the flights is indeed workable from every point of view, even in these days.

Originally Posted by am1m

This dude just keeps delivering the goods. I wish more governments were putting out correct, rational messaging like this.

The only one guy making sense every time right from the start. Wish rational thinking was a virtue, also how I wish I could have posted his other tweets here for some to read !!

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by vharihar

I am 50+. I need to travel with my 80+ years aged parents from Blore to Mumbai, drop them in Mumbai, and then I need to go to Noida on work relocation basis.

I'm wavering bween:
1) Making all legs of this journey by flight, versus
2) Driving with parents from Blore to Mumbai by road with an overnight stay in a non-AC hotel in Belgavi?

If I were you, I would pick a flight - if possible book business class seats, wear a mask and a shield, try to avoid removing the same during the flight and hope for the best. There is COVID risk everywhere - except if all family members are isolated and get only delivered goods which are quarantined and sanitised before use, and no temporary help is allowed.

So, you need to look at the balance of risk. A flight journey is per se riskier than a car journey from a Covid perspective. But I don’t think even very fit 80 year olds should be subjected to a Bangalore - Mumbai drive. And there is some Covid risk even during the drive - you will need loo breaks and possibly halts for food and fuel. Plus even a non AC hotel room is dangerous if it has not been sanitised properly after the previous guest. In fact, if I had to stay in a hotel, I would pick the best one I can afford.

So on a balance of risks (Covid and non Covid), I would choose to fly.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

No one checked the Arogya Setu app at any point.

Arogya Setu is not effective and is more of a harassment tool if one has not installed it. Probably that is the reason for not so strict enforcement.

This is how Taiwan used technology for quarantine - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52017993 (March 24th 2020 article)

How does Taiwan's system work?

The island refers to its phone-tracking system as being an "electronic fence".

Rather than ask users to download a special app or wear a location-transmitting wristband - as has been the case in some East Asian countries - it uses existing phone signals to triangulate the owner's locations.

To ensure users comply, an alert is sent to the authorities if the handset is turned off for more than 15 minutes. More than 6,000 people subjected to home quarantine are simultaneously tracked this way.

And to check that the phone has not simply been left behind, officials phone users up to twice a day to check they have their mobile to hand, and to ask about their health.

The Taiwan Govt claims they delete user data after 10 or 20 days.

Originally Posted by vharihar

In the present times, are flights a safe option (from Covid PoV)?

An article on this - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...-plane-flights

Early in the coronavirus pandemic, air travel looked like a risky endeavor. Some scientists even worried that airplanes could be sites of superspreading events.

And that last part is key. To keep the risk low on planes, everyone needs to keep their mask on while riding the plane.

Why? Planes have excellent air ventilation and filtration systems, which remove coronavirus particles from the air about every six minutes, the U.S. Transportation Command reported Thursday.

"So the only opportunity to breathe the virus in comes from the air that passes by you before it goes through that ventilation system," says engineer Linsey Marr at Virginia Tech. "And so that's only going to happen if you're sitting close to the person who's sick."

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by msdivy

Arogya Setu is not effective and is more of a harassment tool if one has not installed it.

I was not advocating its use. I always avoid it myself. I was only pointing out that the claimed safeguards were not followed at all even at the airport. The airline even sent a message that the app was mandatory per GOI for flying and only passengers with green status would be allowed. There was supposedly a self declaration form for those without a smart phone. However no one checked it at any point. As stated earlier, all declared safeguards like keeping distance and use of masks were neither followed nor enforced at any point at the airport or on board the aircraft.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by vharihar

I am 50+. I need to travel with my 80+ years aged parents from Blore to Mumbai, drop them in Mumbai, and then I need to go to Noida on work relocation basis.

In the present times, are flights a safe option (from Covid PoV)?

I'm wavering bween:
1) Making all legs of this journey by flight, versus
2) Driving with parents from Blore to Mumbai by road with an overnight stay in a non-AC hotel in Belgavi or some such midway point, then driving onwards to Noida alone by car with two overnight halts in midway non-AC hotels, say in Godhra and Ajmer.

I'm having a hard time assessing (from Covid PoV) the risk of flight (closed air circulation in flight cabin for 2 hrs and then waiting in crowded lines in the arrival area which I presume will be time taking due to increased procedures upon arrival), versus risk of staying in hotels.

Thoughts?

ABSOLUTELY NO FLIGHTS FOR AGED PARENTS!

Sorry for the shouting but i could cry you a river about how chaperoning my mother for 4 hours during a grih pravesh was more nerve wracking than driving through unsafe roads late at night ever.

My approach is summarized here:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/route...ml#post4940926 (How to enjoy safe road-trips during Covid-19)

Airports are super hard places - yes they will get priority support from airlines so they don't have to walk, but when covid is exploding around us, then the risk by air is simply too high given the door to door exposure is almost 7-8 hours in cabs, then airport then flight, then cab.

If I were you, I would make BLR-BOM a 2 or even 3 day pleasure trip including figuring out dhabas where they can lie down and even nap in the open but not take a risk on flights! Make it a celebration and show them places of worship or what have you!

You can't bring back your parents with Ctrl-Z.

I have read multiple horror stories about folks buying covid negative certificates without testing such as this: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/78899009.cms

Hire a car from Zoomcar if required - just leave the car windows open for 15 min, spray sanitize all surfaces and you're GREAT to go!

Of course if you were a typical 30/40 year old, you have low risk wearing a N95 but this risk is simply too high for parents esp when even hospital beds have run out in Delhi/ Mumbai and Indore. The respiratory resistance with a valved N99 is too much pain for parents and unless they are absolutely cautious and particular, why that that risk?

Do note that air travel is playing Russian roulette with senior citizen lives courtesy far too many of our educated folks not using the national contact tracing app:

Originally Posted by msdivy

Arogya Setu is not effective and is more of a harassment tool if one has not installed it. Probably that is the reason for not so strict enforcement

Sir enough evidence of effectiveness is a google away. Sadly our poisoned partisan social media has undermined our best weapon in this fight. Here's a few of anecdotes of people known to me - no propoganda:
https://twitter.com/free_rider/statu...606879232?s=20

Sharing my own example out of many - my vertical neighbor told the tower whatsapp group at 11pm that they had ONE positive case, the app showed the exact same update to me the NEXT morning at 9am. if that is not good enough, what is?



An imperfect app that works 50-80% of the time is infinitely better than none.

Originally Posted by Lobogris

I was not advocating its use. I always avoid it myself

Kudos sir, Kudos!
There are ways for ensuring privacy like installing it on a secondary phone - but to avoid it in a pandemic when almost 15L people have died globally tells you that you can't trust on the civic sense of your fellow citizens to stay safe.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Sir enough evidence of effectiveness is a google away. Sadly our poisoned partisan social media has undermined our best weapon in this fight. Here's a few of anecdotes of people known to me - no propoganda:
https://twitter.com/free_rider/statu...606879232?s=20

I am not bothered about who created the app. I am more concerned on how it works. It requires Bluetooth & Location to be on always. It tries to detect proximity by Bluetooth. It is not reliable means of detection.
It gives a report on who are at risk in a radius of 1 Km in best case. If I turn on location, Bluetooth & data, walk in a market and the next day the app says I am at risk, what should I do? Get tested? Visit the doctor? Stay at home? Take medicine? There is no point knowing how many around me are at risk.

Sharing my own example out of many - my vertical neighbor told the tower whatsapp group at 11pm that they had ONE positive case, the app showed the exact same update to me the NEXT morning at 9am. if that is not good enough, what is?.

Isn't that a useless piece of information? What is the use of knowing that 1 person is infected in the floor above me? I may have not have had any contact with him. I think the WhatApp message on who exactly got infected was more useful for you to make any decision.

[srishiva]

There is doubt cast over Oxford vaccine's data. Looks like the half dose that was given was due to some error and not intentional ! And averaging out the results for efficacy of the vaccine
Now they want to trial giving half first doses !

[ankan.m.blr]

And now this: Vaccines may not be required at all!
Source :
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/...dent-of-pfizer

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by srishiva

There is doubt cast over Oxford vaccine's data. Looks like the half dose that was given was due to some error and not intentional ! And averaging out the results for efficacy of the vaccine
Now they want to trial giving half first doses !

I have only skimmed media on this and have no authoritative source, but I thought the thing was that they accidentally discovered (science does have serendipity) that the half dose as first does worked better

Originally Posted by ankan.m.blr

And now this: Vaccines may not be required at all!
Source :
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/...dent-of-pfizer

I think you should wash your hands after reading that. I seriously doubt if any of it is for real. Here, use my sanitiser