[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by rkg

"Bigger the firm higher the tax evasion". This is the norm in India.

Further Vegetables sales are exempted from VAT as far as i know. Similarly many grocery items also

one can get fresh vegetables in local mandi's not super stores and online market place for the simple reason of logistics.

Local vegetable mandi( main one, every city has one) generally starts at midnight with fresh arrivals from nearby villages. form there it reaches different regions of the city by morning. Hence one can get vegetables cut in the evening next day morning.

Super market chains, online stores procure directly from farmers to save costs, then transports them stockyard from there relocation to different stores happens. This generally takes a day or two. to reduce losses these firms treat vegetables with preservatives and then stock them.

To each their own. I was not even in my home city for 200+ days last year. The wife has a uber-hyper-active 3 year old and has language issues in Chennai. 1buyfresh is quality and convenient - not for all of course. No silver bullets here!

If we had the time/energy/... to buy at a mandi, I'd love to do that. Even in delhi we used to go once a month to okhla mandi in my childhood.

As for tax evasion, that's a very flippant comment. It may be true for some companies but I'd rather not go down that path. The fact remains that these online grocers etc are still under tax radar much more as opposed to individual shopkeepers. I know more than a few of the latter who pay next to no tax despite being big traders.

[noopster]

Continue to be mightily impressed with Amazon. Had a bit of a domestic emergency with my fridge conking off the other day and the repairman suggested we get a voltage stabilizer (V guard 2A rated) which according to him is only available "in the city" (Punekar way of referring to downtown). I got online and checked both Flipkart and Amazon, read through reviews and realised that a 4A rated one would be much more suitable, found to my delight that Amazon has a next day delivery option at 99/- only and placed the order around 8 pm Monday and received it, superbly packaged as usual, on Tuesday afternoon (yesterday). As things stand the damn fridge is still unrepaired but the stabilizer is all set!

[rkg]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I believed that way, but most have only passable quality at best.

Was commenting on this particular post. The time lag between harvesting to consumer via Sabji mandi route is about 10-12 hours and in e-commerce mode it is more than 24 hours. So the argument of e-commerce is providing fresh stuff of high quality is debatable.

I have never said that every body should visit sabji mandi to buy. As already stated, the time lag is less in this mode. One can buy at neighborhood veggie with 10-12 hours of harvest. At a mandi this will be less than 5 hours.

If one is talking in percentile terms ( percent of tax evaders in bigger firms vs smaller firms vs individuals) the issue will be clear, who is a bigger a tax evader. Do not want deviate much from the topic, but in my 17 years of service as public servant, i have seen enough of it.

Once again state that Vegetables do not fall under any tax bracket. Hence government getting more tax revenue from e commerce in vegetables is not correct. Question of neighborhood veggie not paying taxes also does not arise.

https://odishatax.gov.in/VAT/vatact/vact_sca.pdf
http://ctax.kar.nic.in/tax_rates/kva...20OF%20TAX.pdf
http://finngl.nic.in/vatschedule/schedule.pdf

In terms of convenience for working couples, mother with babies and for anybody who does not have time or energy to go neighborhood veggie, e-commerce is best. There is no argument there.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

To each their own. I was not even in my home city for 200+ days last year. The wife has a uber-hyper-active 3 year old and has language issues in Chennai. 1buyfresh is quality and convenient - not for all of course. No silver bullets here!

If we had the time/energy/... to buy at a mandi, I'd love to do that. Even in delhi we used to go once a month to okhla mandi in my childhood.

As for tax evasion, that's a very flippant comment. It may be true for some companies but I'd rather not go down that path. The fact remains that these online grocers etc are still under tax radar much more as opposed to individual shopkeepers. I know more than a few of the latter who pay next to no tax despite being big traders.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Of the local-shop fruit/veg sellers that I know anything about, most are struggling with increasing rents. One has been forced out by joint action of landlord increasing rent and pressure from loan shark. Another has been forced to trade from a cart on the road, due to higher rents being asked for re-developed building. It is a hard life.

Oddly, the other side of the coin is that I see posher fruit/veg shops springing up all over. We'll see how many of them still exist in a few years, but the small-small people will probably be the first to go.

[binand]

Originally Posted by rkg

Was commenting on this particular post. The time lag between harvesting to consumer via Sabji mandi route is about 10-12 hours and in e-commerce mode it is more than 24 hours. So the argument of e-commerce is providing fresh stuff of high quality is debatable.

I would really like to see some attribution for this statement. Empirical observation suggests twice-daily restocking at large chain supermarkets (and I will extend that to e-commerce sites too).

The subji mandi has another problem - the best quality produce of the day is sold only to the bulk, repeat purchasers like supermarkets, hotels etc. My thousand-bucks-a-week pales in comparison with the several tens of thousands these folks spend at the mandi on a daily basis; and the vendors at the mandi know which side of their bread is buttered. I have personally experienced this at the Koyambedu market (here in Bangalore I go to the HAL market where I get quite decent produce, though).

Originally Posted by rkg

Once again state that Vegetables do not fall under any tax bracket. Hence government getting more tax revenue from e commerce in vegetables is not correct.

But you are looking only at VAT. The e-commerce guys pay service tax and corporate tax and their employees pay income tax. None of these are applicable to the neighbourhood vegetable retailer.

Originally Posted by rkg

In terms of convenience for working couples, mother with babies and for anybody who does not have time or energy to go neighborhood veggie, e-commerce is best. There is no argument there.

So the "expand-the-pie" business model would be to accept orders online but fulfill them from the nearest participating small vendor. The vendor has to forego dirty profits (bad-quality stock, tampered scales etc.) and participate in the scheme honestly and diligently; in return he'd get assured orders and revenue.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by binand

I would really like to see some attribution for this statement. Empirical observation suggests twice-daily restocking at large chain supermarkets (and I will extend that to e-commerce sites too)

The subji mandi has another problem - the best quality produce of the day is sold only to the bulk, repeat purchasers like supermarkets, hotels etc. My thousand-bucks-a-week pales in comparison with the several tens of thousands these folks spend at the mandi on a daily basis; and the vendors at the mandi know which side of their bread is buttered. I have personally experienced this at the Koyambedu market (here in Bangalore I go to the HAL market where I get quite decent produce, though)

1. Most of the big branded market chains have their own procurement channels and stockyards. They do not procure from sabji mandi's. Daily restocking happens from their own stockyards. Buying from sabji mandi's reduce the profit margins by adding another layer. Most of them have contracts with farmers to buy the produce at a fixed price over a period.

2. HAL market gets its produce from KR market. we buy from HAL market(me too). This is what i said, the time lag from producer - KR market - HAL - consumer is not more than 10-12 hours.

Originally Posted by binand

But you are looking only at VAT. The e-commerce guys pay service tax and corporate tax and their employees pay income tax. None of these are applicable to the neighbourhood vegetable retailer.

E-commerce guys does not sell veggies alone. They do deduct the profits/costs of veggie trade from their total turnover before calculating the tax burden. If he is paying taxes, it is not due to the trade of veggies, but many other things which are in tax bracket.

The total turnover of veggie sellers at HAL market or neighborhood is lot less than the stipulated IT slab. E-Commerce guy employs CA's and deduct all his costs including phone bills, current bills, depreciation etc etc. If one has to similar analysis for local veggie he/she may be actually making loss, as he does not count his labour.

Further E-commerce gets venture funding at nominal cost( very less or no interest). your local veggie has to get funding at meter baddi which is around 10% per day thorough out India.

Do you really think these big guys pay all the service tax they collect from their customer's?
Please go through the yesterday suicide of Mr D K Ravi, IAS. How much money he collected from big builders in 5 months( this is only VAT dues, does not include service tax as it is a central tax. The firms who evaded VAT, will not evade service tax?)

The arguments of most of the E-commerce guys is that they are only market place and need not pay VAT(Kerala, UP, Karnataka)

Amazon, Snap Deal, E-Bay customers get invoice in the name of seller, not in e-commerce guy's name.

Originally Posted by binand

So the "expand-the-pie" business model would be to accept orders online but fulfill them from the nearest participating small vendor. The vendor has to forego dirty profits (bad-quality stock, tampered scales etc.) and participate in the scheme honestly and diligently; in return he'd get assured orders and revenue.

Regarding tempered scales, what makes you think it is only neighborhood guy who is doing it? What prevents big retail chains from doing it? If it is done by firms like HUL, P&G who claimed that around 7-10% of the net weight of their soaps is lost by the time they reach consumer due to evaporation in 1990's.

How many of us actually weigh the packed groceries bought at super markets. 5 gm less on each 1/2 kg pack will lead to huge profits for these chains because their volumes are so high. To check one will need a high precision balance. Because most of the 6 kg balances come with error margin of 50 gm.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/44913120.cms

[Pallavi]

Originally Posted by rkg

2. HAL market gets its produce from KR market. we buy from HAL market(me too). This is what i said, the time lag from producer - KR market - HAL - consumer is not more than 10-12 hours.

What about the time taken from the farm to the KR market? Do all the fruits & veggies they stock get sold on day one?

I am not taking sides here.. but as an end customer, i find the quality of veggies at HAL market (yes, i used to buy there and still do sometimes) comparable to those of BigBasket only during the weekends. Either on weekdays or Sunday evening, you get only the stuff left over from the lot.

But that's not the case with online purchases. Any time during the week, you get similar quality.

Originally Posted by rkg

How many of us actually weigh the packed groceries bought at super markets. 5 gm less on each 1/2 kg pack will lead to huge profits for these chains because their volumes are so high. To check one will need a high precision balance. Because most of the 6 kg balances come with error margin of 50 gm.

Agree to the above but that doesn't mean the local veggie vendors don't short change us.

The difference might be a few gms in case of online stores but in case of local vendors, it is never less than 100-150gms and sometimes much more.

Even after all my cribbing in earlier posts about BigBasket, it would be my pick over HAL market anyday due to the 2 reasons above: reasonable quality anytime of the week, better, if not accurate weighing.

Last but not the least, i like the time saved, freedom from driving on the clogged roads and also zero haggling

[Vishyvish]

Originally Posted by noopster

Continue to be mightily impressed with Amazon. Had a bit of a domestic emergency with my fridge conking off the other day and the repairman suggested we get a voltage stabilizer (V guard 2A rated) which according to him is only available "in the city" (Punekar way of referring to downtown). I got online and checked both Flipkart and Amazon, read through reviews and realised that a 4A rated one would be much more suitable, found to my delight that Amazon has a next day delivery option at 99/- only and placed the order around 8 pm Monday and received it, superbly packaged as usual, on Tuesday afternoon (yesterday). As things stand the damn fridge is still unrepaired but the stabilizer is all set!

Hey Buddy
Had the same experience with Amazon, but something different with Flipkart. Do you know from where your item was shipped ???
As I see there is a huge gap between demand and supply in the logistics sector due to the sudden boom in e commerce. Goods supplied out of north takes more time to get delivered, than that being supplied from west or south. Logistics seems to be the " in thing " for those who wanna start up😄
wanna "start-up"😄

[rkg]

Originally Posted by Pallavi

What about the time taken from the farm to the KR market? Do all the fruits & veggies they stock get sold on day one?

There is no stocking of veggies in this model. It comes from nearby villages early in the morning. Wholesaler picks it up, resells. From there it reaches to local markets like HAL.

Originally Posted by Pallavi

I am not taking sides here.. but as an end customer, i find the quality of veggies at HAL market (yes, i used to buy there and still do sometimes) comparable to those of BigBasket only during the weekends. Either on weekdays or Sunday evening, you get only the stuff left over from the lot.

Fully agree with you on this. This is because HAL market gets most customers on weekends. Hence you get more range and fresh stuff. I buy once in a week on sunday morning, stock them in refrigerator.

Originally Posted by Pallavi

But that's not the case with online purchases. Any time during the week, you get similar quality.

Because they stock the produce in cold storage and supply from there. May be they even procure daily from farmers. But it happens only if the volumes are large. Otherwise it is not profitable.

Originally Posted by Pallavi

Agree to the above but that doesn't mean the local veggie vendors don't short change us.

The difference might be a few gms in case of online stores but in case of local vendors, it is never less than 100-150gms and sometimes much more.

Did you check any time or is it just assumption that the weights are 100-150 gm less at local markets.

Further everybody shortchanges, because this is India and there are no penalties for cheating( in reality) . The perceived quantity assurance from on line firms is compensated with a higher price there. In nutshell consumer is always at the receiving end.
But in HAL market i get the option of seeing & selecting the veggies before buying, which no on line model can offer me.

Originally Posted by Pallavi

Even after all my cribbing in earlier posts about BigBasket, it would be my pick over HAL market any day due to the 2 reasons above: reasonable quality anytime of the week, better, if not accurate weighing.

Last but not the least, i like the time saved, freedom from driving on the clogged roads and also zero haggling

No argument here.

[Pallavi]

Originally Posted by rkg

I buy once in a week on sunday morning, stock them in refrigerator.

Originally Posted by rkg

Did you check any time or is it just assumption that the weights are 100-150 gm less at local markets.

That's a conservative estimate. I have a kitchen scale which is fairly accurate though not to the last gm.

Originally Posted by rkg

Further everybody shortchanges, because this is India and there are no penalties for cheating( in reality) . The perceived quantity assurance from on line firms is compensated with a higher price there.

On comparing, the online stores offer better prices than local vendors and similar prices to the HAL market.

Originally Posted by rkg

But in HAL market i get the option of seeing & selecting the veggies before buying, which no on line model can offer me.

This is the best part of going to the market.

Online stores quality can get a hit or miss but when that happens, you can simply return that veggie pack to the delivery guy and not pay for it.

[hellmet]

Anyone else annoyed with flipkart.com for their forced push to download their app? I'm using a tablet and I can find no way to close the popup and move on.

[binand]

Originally Posted by hellmet

I'm using a tablet and I can find no way to close the popup and move on.

Have you tried typing "www.amazon.in" in the URL bar?

(Seriously, the best response to such shenanigans is to vote with your feet. We e-commerce folks monitor the response to such product changes and roll them back if they're doing more harm than good.)

[dmplog]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Anyone else annoyed with flipkart.com for their forced push to download their app? I'm using a tablet and I can find no way to close the popup and move on.

I've seen this on some devices (Samsung and HTC) which are running older a android is such as jellybean. Me (moto g KitKat) and my friend (Samsung grand on jellybean) opened flipkart from chrome. I got a popup which I could close and browse mobile site. On the other hand my friend got a hard static page(which looked different than what I got as a popup) which couldn't be closed.
May be it's got to do with some tech limitation of the older OS or browser version?

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by dmplog

May be it's got to do with some tech limitation of the older OS or browser version?

When the majority of devices are running an older version, it's patently stupid to try such a tactic. I have the same issue, and consequently,Flipkart has lost me as a customer to snapdeal, although their price was lower.

[hellmet]

Originally Posted by binand

Have you tried typing "www.amazon.in" in the URL bar?

(Seriously, the best response to such shenanigans is to vote with your feet. We e-commerce folks monitor the response to such product changes and roll them back if they're doing more harm than good.)

Haha. Yes, that's what I eventually did. However, there are some gadgets that are exclusive to a certain website leaving me with no choice but to return to FK (this time from a PC).