[dragonfire]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Did you know woke movement has roots in Marxism? In the 80s, Marxism was dealt a triple blow, USSR imploded, China became capitalist, and trade unions lost membership and clout significantly. So the ideologues of the Left in the academia changed the focus from "working class struggle" to "identity class struggle", and relaunched leftism with a new platform. Multiple books written by the left in the late 80s explicitly mention this makeover. When Marxism got a makeover and joined social justice moment, they brought the propaganda concept into it, where facts don't matter. That is how liberalism is now being linked to authoritative communism. It is all about group identity, and not about individuals.

The left once was all about individual rights and liberty. It has over the last few decades been infiltrated by socialists, communists and now the progressives. Now it is all about defining a "victim class" and "fighting for them" (read feeding off them). Sadly American millennials are falling for the woke propaganda and neo-marxism has been mainstreamed. They think they are trying to "save" America but is only helping to prop up the ultra right at the other end. The divide is widening as we speak.

[amitoj]

What do you all think this "woke movement" is asking for? Is it the freedom to choose pronouns? Diversity and Inclusion? Livable wages? Equal rights? Protection from exploitation in healthcase? What else?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitoj

What do you all think this "woke movement" is asking for? Is it the freedom to choose pronouns? Diversity and Inclusion? Livable wages? Equal rights? Protection from exploitation in healthcare? What else?

Wow, obviously you are not familiar with the woke movement. Don't confuse woke movement with fight for economic inequality or socialism.

Woke is mainly about identity politics. It has nothing to do with free healthcare, living wage, not even about equal rights. If you recall, I have always been for these things.

Woke is associated with terms like anti-racism, micro-aggression, trigger warning, equality of outcome, etc. Fortunately, classic liberals are fighting back. John McWhorter, a renowned liberal scholar who has written around 25 books talks about antiracism in the following video on MSNBC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPE6whtgyr4

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Woke is associated with terms like anti-racism, micro-aggression, trigger warning, equality of outcome, etc. Fortunately, classic liberals are fighting back.

Every movement has certain demands. What are the demands of the woke movement? EDIT: In layman terms, if possible. I am not smart enough to decipher scholar-speak

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Every movement has certain demands. What are the demands of the woke movement?

Sorry man, you will require months to understand the topic. It will be a gross injustice to the topic if I try to dumb it down to few sentences. Besides, it is a very political topic, it will break Rule#13 sooner or later.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Sorry man, you will require months to understand the topic. It will be a gross injustice to the topic if I try to dumb it down to few sentences. Besides, it is a very political topic, it will break Rule#13 sooner or later.

That's ok. I was curious because here in US, often when someone talks about equality, racial injustice, living wages, free healthcare and education, reparations, gun laws or anything that is not on the conservative agenda, they get labeled woke. It's being used as a broad brush to sweep real issues under the carpet by conservatives as well as conservative media like Fox.
As for Elon, I think he has been listening to a bit too much of Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan for his own good.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitoj

That's ok. I was curious because here in US, often when someone talks about equality, racial injustice, living wages, free healthcare and education, reparations, gun laws or anything that is not on the conservative agenda, they get labeled woke. It's being used as a broad brush to sweep real issues under the carpet by conservatives as well as conservative media like Fox.

Yes, that is because many of the famous liberals support both. For example, AOC supports both identity politics and democratic socialism. I am a long time fan of AOC, only because of her views/actions on democratic socialism. You probably hate that side of her.

When Fox news goes after AOC, they hate both philosophies, so they club it as a single thing.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I am a long time fan of AOC, only because of her views/actions on democratic socialism. You probably hate that side of her.

I actually admire both AOC and Bernie. Instead of hating on mainstream media, I direct my dislike towards mainstream politicians like Joe Biden and Mitch McConnell But that doesn't mean that I admire Trump. I'd rather kill myself.

[ValarMorghulis]

OT: This thread seems to have taken a sharp turn to discussing political terms

Coming back to the topic, Musk recently also stated that Twitter will be free for casual users but governments and commercial bodies might be charged a "fee".

Link

[m8002?]

I am still at a loss to understand this Crusade that Musk has taken upon himself. All this things about Liberals, Conservative, freespeech is all largely limited to US and a little to Western Europe.

1. Will Musk's Twitter allow the same "Free Speech" in China and Saudi Arabia?
2. Will it allow the same in India?
3. He really thinks Chinese/Indian governments are going to pay him to use Twitter?

It looks like Musk's world starts in US and ends in US. If Twitter has to abide by the local laws ( which are against Free Speech in many countries and sometimes even by-passed by the Govt. in some others), what exactly is he trying to achieve?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by m8002?

1. Will Musk's Twitter allow the same "Free Speech" in China and Saudi Arabia?
2. Will it allow the same in India?

No, he said twitter should follow the law on free speech.

It will be interesting how Musk will navigate laws of different countries that will contradict each other. For example, LGBTQ content is still illegal in many countries. That means they have to implement laws by national boundaries, by checking the location info of the viewer. That means, if someone tweets gay wedding pics or alcohol pics in USA, it won't be seen in Saudi Arabia. But can be seen in India.

Originally Posted by m8002?

3. He really thinks Chinese/Indian governments are going to pay him to use Twitter?

Don't governments pay for TV and Newspaper advertisements?

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Samurai

No, he said twitter should follow the law on free speech.

Does he want Twitter to act like Congress? Here's what the First Amendment says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

At the same time, Freedom of Speech does not include the right to incite lawlessness (Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969))

He will be opening himself up to a ton of lawsuits if he tries to relax all the controls that Twitter has around its content.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitoj

At the same time, Freedom of Speech does not include the right to incite lawlessness (Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969))

He will be opening himself up to a ton of lawsuits if he tries to relax all the controls that Twitter has around its content.

Twitter is the medium, right? If someone incites using email, should the email provider get sued?

These legal points could be covered in EULA to shift the liability to the actual tweeter and not the platform.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Twitter is the medium, right? If someone incites using email, should the email provider get sued?

These legal points could be covered in EULA to shift the liability to the actual tweeter and not the platform.

Don't underestimate the ability of Americans to sue

Email's reach is nowhere near that of a broadcasting platform like Twitter or YouTube, so I don't think that's a fair comparison.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Don't underestimate the ability of Americans to sue

Once Elon takes over, he can force every twitter user to do annual KYC, and also indemnify twitter from any liability from the user's tweets.

No KYC, no tweeting. Basically build a trust chain, so that tweeters can be identified and held responsible for their actions. Every account must have blue tick, for tweeting.