[ike]

Originally Posted by dust-n-bones

What we are missing today is what Bush Jr missed when he went into Afghanistan. He had no exit plan. It looks like we also don't know what we want as the endgame here. We wanted to go after the terrorists, but are now being dragged into the mud with the pig. Its not going to be pretty.

To suggest that those responsible have not thought this through is not correct, I'm quite certain all the eventualities have been catered for.

I personally think we told the terrorists on Day #1 that we will come after you no matter what, and you should think carefully before planning again. This is a major outcome as far as military operations go. And a drastic improvement from only a few years ago when these terrorists used to brag openly about their exploits. Think Kandahar hijacking.

Was that not the case with Uri and Balakot later on? And we agreed that both Balakot & Uri may not have had the desired effect.

America was the undisputed super power of this world when it went into Afghanistan. It took them 20 years and 1 tr USD to realize they were chasing a mirage. What you are suggesting is the recipe for toppling a superpower.
We need the discipline to use all dimensions of whatever power we have for maximizing the outcome.

What the US did in Afghanistan was to try and "liberate" the Afghan people. India will have no such objective and whatever happens will be very different from the outcome of the US invasion of Afghanistan & Iraq.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by binand

On the matter of Kashmir - if we say most (all?) of us are right-extremists (and similarly Pakistanis are left-extremists), then to us those who adopt a centrist view might also appear to be supporting Pakistan's cause.

I am curious to know what would be a left-extremist, right-extremist & centrist view here in the case of Pahelgam attack. Can you elaborate a bit so that we understand your line of reasoning?

[locusjag]

So, a time traveler from Pakistan basically foresaw 7 months ago that India's Rafales would get shot down? That's what the timeline of this pic suggests.

[binand]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I am curious to know what would be a left-extremist, right-extremist & centrist view here in the case of Pahelgam attack. Can you elaborate a bit so that we understand your line of reasoning?

That statement was made as a response to "dissatisfaction with foreign media". I had taken sufficient care to quote only the part of the original post to which it pertained.

[Zinda]

Well said!! (received via whatsapp)

[LakeWalker]

I honestly wish we had AT LEAST ONE indian news channel which reported only the proven facts and kept their mouth shut for rest of the day instead of sensationalised IPL-Commentary-like assumptions and speculations, and rumours.
Yes, some of the Western media are clearly biased, but so is our domestic news media. We are forced to look at international news sources ONLY BECAUSE our own news channels are crap.It's frustrating that at times like this, there is not a single news source that will tell us what is actually going on. They are making news out of thin air since they have nothing credible to report. Since News in India became a studio floor circus, many hindi-english channels don't even have enough ground reporters now. So, how will they get news anyway?!

Saw a news report yesterday saying a certain city and airport in pak is destroyed and whatnot. When I checked the Flightradar24 website entire yesterday and today, all the international airlines are operating normally out of that airport. So, I've realised the only credible news source right now is the press release of our armed forces. The rest is worse than a circus and is just noise.
After watching all the sensationalised (mis)information on these news channels, I can only imagine what might be going through the minds of loved ones of our soldiers and others who work near our borders.

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by LakeWalker

I honestly wish we had AT LEAST ONE indian news channel which reported only the proven facts and kept their mouth shut for rest of the day instead of sensationalised IPL-Commentary-like assumptions and speculations, and rumours.

I cannot believe I am saying this, but NDTV is refreshingly normal these days. I think Journalist Shiv Aroor has quickly transformed the editorial policy of the channel and it is clearly seen. There has been no unverified sensationalism of the Jingoistic type since the last 2 days.


By the way, there is a clear signal from India that there is not going to be any de-escalation with IPL getting suspended.

[nandrive]

Originally Posted by LakeWalker

After watching all the sensationalised (mis)information on these news channels,

Are not misinformation, deception art and part of a war? .5 front within India is also a part of information warfare of the enemy nation.

"truth is the first casualty of war" is not a new saying, there is no need to be honest during war. Were not we told about Weapons of Mass Destruction from the very same Western media organizations and many more? Where is the credibility?

[ike]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I cannot believe I am saying this, but NDTV is refreshingly normal these days.

OT but I think there was an ownership change, the channel is now owned by an Adani subsidiary.

[GJ01]

From TOI:


12:30 (IST) May 09
Operation Sindoor Live: All media channels are advised to refrain from live coverage or real-time reporting of defence operations, says defence ministry

“All media channels, digital platforms and individuals are advised to refrain from live coverage or real-time reporting of defence operations and movement of security forces. Disclosure of such sensitive or source-based information may jeopardize operational effectiveness and endanger lives. Past incidents like the #KargilWar, 26/11 attacks, and the #Kandahar hijacking underscore the risks of premature reporting," ministry of defence posted on X.

"As per clause 6(1)(p) of the Cable Television Networks (Amendment) Rules, 2021, only periodic briefings by designated officials are permitted during anti-terror operations. All stakeholders are urged to exercise vigilance, sensitivity, and responsibility in coverage, upholding the highest standards in the service of the nation,” it added.

I hope this gets adhered to. CNN started the "live broadcast" of war during the Iraq invasion of Kuwait and the Operation Desert Storm became a 24/7 live feed of war activities - there's been no letting off after that.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by neeraj0272

Many members have expressed dissatisfaction with foreign media. If this is true then I just want to know why foreign media is behaving so? What Pakistanis have to offer to these media that we have not been able to?

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I have some hunches on why this is the case...... I think these relationships are also leveraged to give Pakistan cover.

Add to that, I feel there are vestiges of the Cold war too playing a role. Pakistan has always cosied to USA and the Western bloc during the Cold war era. USA did tried to woo India, but our strong Non Alignment stance meant USA pushed us into the Eastern Bloc citing, "If you ain't with us, you are against us" Also Pakistan was part of the bulwark (stretching from Turkey to Pakistan) that USA had cultivated between USSR and the oil rich GCC nations. Then the War on Terror of 2000s made Pakistan a valuable partner again. Though in the past decade, Pakistan had started getting more close with China and the warm relations with USA, KSA and UAE started to get cold.

Also from what I can observe, Pakistanis who did their basic schooling and studies before Zia ul Haq era were much more articulate and could create a more favourable impression in diplomatic circles. Somewhere between 26/11 and 2016 Pathankot attack, while Indian diplomats were struggling to do press meetings, the Pakistani side would be suave and articulate in their dealing with the press. But looks like the Zia ul Haq era educated Pakistanis have caught up and are making a mockery of Pakistan in the world diplomatic stage.

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

4. Finally India is a complex country. The diversity & scale of India is mind boggling. Europe & USA just don't get it. It's easier to think that India is a hindu nationalist country where minorities/lower castes are oppressed daily by a virulent upper caste all-powerful RSS. India's 3 tier government and the fact that there are powerful regional chief ministers who control law & order is completely lost. This ties easily into race narratives in these countries too.

True. And it is doesn't help that our Lutyen's elites had thrived for decades on literal poverty porn media being exported to the Western world.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by LakeWalker

I honestly wish we had AT LEAST ONE indian news channel which reported only the proven facts and kept their mouth shut for rest of the day instead of sensationalised IPL-Commentary-like assumptions and speculations, and rumours.

You can head to NDTV.com as I stated a few posts before. No sensationalism there and no 'report and retract' since yesterday unlike many other mainstream news channels.

[professortarzan]

Originally Posted by saket77

Among the mainstream Indian media, I found NDTV.com to present the most accurate picture of what's happening on the ground. Nothing over the top. No rhetoric.

Agreed, they did a great job covering the events last night. They were very transparent about Pak jets being shot, stressing that the news is unverified. I remember Vishnu Som covering Kargil war, seeing him at the desk last night felt quite befitting.

Originally Posted by rrsteer

But I must say I am left shocked by the coverage of the western news media. CNN, BBC etc. appear to frame the situation in a manner that overlooks the underlying act of terrorism and instead casts India as the initiator or aggressor.
....
It just changes my world view. Trump is right - CNN and their ilk are FAKE news.

The 'left-wing', off late, seem to have an uncontrollable urge to pander to the minorities. There was a time where objective of the left or liberals was to stand against oppression and regression, but extremism has penetrated their ranks too. Not taking names, but this is a pattern I see across their associated activistic spectrum.

Originally Posted by locusjag

So, a time traveler from Pakistan basically foresaw 7 months ago that India's Rafales would get shot down? That's what the timeline of this pic suggests.
Attachment 2755990

Apparently, Google Lens shows the time period of when the account was created, I gathered this from Reddit convos. Users have tried debunking this picture by drawing lines and stuff, but it's not very convincing to me. As much as I hate to say it, we should be open to the possibility that IAF might have lost an aircraft or more. Irrespective of that, I am super proud that our air defenses did a fabulous job last night.

[FlankerFury]

Twitter | Shiv Aroor | PL-15 recovered

A near intact PL-15 BVRAAM (Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile) was recovered from Hoshiarpur, Punjab.
Parts of this missile, particularly the portion containing the seeker head was recovered earlier on 7th of May.
____

Originally Posted by whencut86

I pray that this happens now and Pak is split into Sindh, Balochistan, Pak Punjab and Taliban claiming their Pashtunistan beyond the Durand Line.

It's not going to be that easy this time around. Pakistan has a sizeable nuclear weapons stash, if they fall into the wrong hands, it'd be a massive headache not just for us, but possibly for the entire world.
Securing those sites would be nigh on impossible.
____

Originally Posted by LakeWalker

I honestly wish we had AT LEAST ONE indian news channel which reported only the proven facts and kept their mouth shut for rest of the day instead of sensationalised IPL-Commentary-like assumptions and speculations, and rumours.

+1
I spent about 40mins on one of our English news channels last night and with every passing minute, a JF-17 was shot down, some ammunition warehouse or weapons cache in Karachi/Islamabad/Lahore/Rawalpindi was blown up and a Pakistani AWACS was destroyed.
____

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I cannot believe I am saying this, but NDTV is refreshingly normal these days.

BusinessLine | Adani Group becomes majority shareholder in NDTV
This might have something to do with it

I think Journalist Shiv Aroor has quickly transformed the editorial policy of the channel and it is clearly seen. There has been no unverified sensationalism of the Jingoistic type since the last 2 days.

Certainly, the only reason I logon to Twitter now is to see some of his tweets. Most of Twitter is a mess with tweets filled with sensationalist, jingoistic hype, especially from some of the Blue Ticks.

Shiv Aroor's and some foreign OSINT accounts are the only ones worth reading there.

[professortarzan]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

BusinessLine | Adani Group becomes majority shareholder in NDTV
This might have something to do with it

To be honest, I have stopped watching NDTV since Adani takeover. I tuned in last night and was mighty impressed with how they handled the whole events. I could not put up with the clamoring in any other channels. Firstpost's coverage was relatively calmer, but carried the typical bias and unverified information.

Most of Twitter is a mess
....
especially from some of the Blue Ticks.

He who shall not be named wanted to "clean up" Twitter and thought opening up Blue Ticks was a good idea