[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Do combat aircraft sport external fuel probe (which is both drag and radar CS-inducing if I am not mistaken), on a real mission over enemy territory where tanker aircraft certainly cannot operate?

Yes they do, detaching those probes isn't a quick job and it's not practical either. Moreover, the probes are designed to be as slim and streamlined as possible. Additionally, their placement is carefully chosen to minimize interference with airflow.

The drag caused by the probe is relatively, very small when compared to the weapons and targeting pods carried on underwing pylons.
On 4th gen (non stealth) combat jets such as the Mirage 2000, Rafales and JF-17 Block III, the RCS is already relatively high, the small increase in RCS caused by the fixed external probe wouldn't significantly alter survivability.

About the tanker, you're right, tankers won't operate over or even close to hostile airspace, but it might be required during ingress and egress.

The utility of the fixed probe outweighs the drag and RCS penalty.


airliners.net | Mirage 2000 close up

[locusjag]

Guys, I know that this thread shouldn't have a tabloid newsroom styled/WhatsApp styled blow by blow news update...

But hear me out - I saw news earlier in the evening that a Turkish naval vessel had docked in Karachi port today. And breaking news now on India Today live video newsfeed tells me that a flotilla led by INS Vikrant has hit the Karachi port.

Did we just drag Turkiye into this war? If we end up activating a certain axis of like-minded nations, this thing becomes entirely something else for us. But then again, we wouldn't be so naive to do that, would we? Perhaps the Turkish ship never did dock there, or INS Vikrant didn't hit Karachi.

[whencut86]

We are not war mongers to blindly attack a Turkish Vessel. A fleet of warships with the mighty aircraft carrier is heading to Karachi port is what I am hearing. Sam No Varunah!!!

[dust-n-bones]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I must say, this statement is in bad taste. it has been 75+ years and we still are treated inferior by our own. In times like these, even if we are not supporting our government, let us not belittle them.

PS: When it comes to Pakistan, the current government is NOT going to listen to anyone else. I repeat. Anyone. Most of the world leaders are aware of that.

Originally Posted by ike

The message to Pakistan today is that they cannot kill Indians with impunity and any aggression will be dealt with appropriately. I'm quite confident that the decision to respond was taken at the highest levels after exploring and debating all the options. The aggression was not without purpose, it was as the foreign secretary mentioned, measured, non escalatory and focused.

I respect all of the above sentiments, that India has suffered in silence for too long, and that finally judgement day is here.

Originally Posted by ike

I for one have no doubt that Pakistan did not learn anything from Balakot, it only grew more belligerent.

However, I agree with this too. Balakot failed. It produced no outcomes. Do you think what we are doing now is going to be different?
There is no way a purely military action is going to change the DNA of any country. On the contrary, it will add another layer of enmity. Think 1971. Threat to India was supposed to reduce after the famous victory.

What we are missing today is what Bush Jr missed when he went into Afghanistan. He had no exit plan. It looks like we also don't know what we want as the endgame here. We wanted to go after the terrorists, but are now being dragged into the mud with the pig. Its not going to be pretty.

I personally think we told the terrorists on Day #1 that we will come after you no matter what, and you should think carefully before planning again. This is a major outcome as far as military operations go. And a drastic improvement from only a few years ago when these terrorists used to brag openly about their exploits. Think Kandahar hijacking.

The rest has to be patient, persistent diplomacy with our allies, make Pakistan pay an exorbitant economic cost if it tries again via IMF, WB, ADB, FATF.

Originally Posted by heydj

This is such a weak expectation and exactly the attitude that will stop India from becoming a super power. No retreat, no letting up, we need to go all agressive. Time has come for us to move out of colonial shackels of submission.

America was the undisputed super power of this world when it went into Afghanistan. It took them 20 years and 1 tr USD to realize they were chasing a mirage. What you are suggesting is the recipe for toppling a superpower.
We need the discipline to use all dimensions of whatever power we have for maximizing the outcome.

[vishnurp99]

I would suggest that we shut this thread down. We can discuss once things come back to normal.

Obviously the entire Indian public supports India's decision to hit Pakistan's terror locations. There are risks to the approach though. India has escalation dominance because of its size & economic theft. So it's a calculated risk.

Diplomacy doesn't really work unless intent & will is clearly communicated.

Pakistan started this with Pahelgam attack & the whole Munir speech. An attack like Pahelgam cannot be done by untrained people. This can only happen if the perpetrators are trained , radicalized & brainwashed in a focused manner with virulent ideology. The gambit was thrown at that point

I think the intent & will has been communicated clearly by India now as a response to that. Now it's Pakistan's attempt to respond.

I laud India's response & the choice of name , the communication protocol etc. Hopefully the fear of total destruction will convince Pakistan not to take this beyond a certain point.

[Madhu_Bengaluru]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

I would suggest that we shut this thread down. We can discuss once things come back to normal.

Completely agree with this suggestion, we need not contribute further to all the misinformation going around with our arm chair analysis. Time to just support the country, wait and watch. Once we return to some kind of normalcy let's continue. @admin please close this thread.

[Shreyans_Jain]

It’s on Reuters.

US officials are saying that Pakistani J10 jets brought down at least two Indian fighter aircraft, including a Rafale.

https://www.reuters.com/world/pakist...ls-2025-05-08/

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/...le-2025-05-08/

[Fuldagap]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Guys, I know that this thread shouldn't have a tabloid newsroom styled/WhatsApp styled blow by blow news update...

But hear me out - I saw news earlier in the evening that a Turkish naval vessel had docked in Karachi port today. And breaking news now on India Today live video newsfeed tells me that a flotilla led by INS Vikrant has hit the Karachi port.

Did we just drag Turkiye into this war? If we end up activating a certain axis of like-minded nations, this thing becomes entirely something else for us. But then again, we wouldn't be so naive to do that, would we? Perhaps the Turkish ship never did dock there, or INS Vikrant didn't hit Karachi.

This happened few days back prior to anything had started. We did not drag Turkey. They both have close diplomatic affiliations.

Here is an excerpt:

Source

ISLAMABAD: A Turkish naval ship, TCG Büyükada, has arrived in Pakistan on a visit to strengthen maritime cooperation between the two countries, Pakistan Navy said on Sunday.
Pakistan and Türkiye share close diplomatic, economic and defense ties. Turkish defense firms have helped modernize Pakistan’s Agosta 90B-class submarines and supplied military equipment, including drones, to Islamabad.
The two countries regularly hold joint military exercises, most recently the Ataturk-XIII drills, which involved combat teams from the two special forces and aimed to enhance interoperability between them.
Upon arrival at the Karachi port, the Turkish naval ship was warmly welcomed by officials from both navies, according to the Directorate General Public Relations (DGPR) of Pakistan Navy.
“During its stay in Karachi, the crew of TCG Büyükada will engage in a series of professional interactions with Pakistan Navy personnel,” the DGPR said. “The visit aims to enhance mutual understanding and strengthen maritime cooperation between the two navies.”
The development comes at a time of heightened tensions between Pakistan and India over an attack in Indian-administered Kashmir that killed 26 tourists on April 22. New Delhi has blamed the attack on Pakistan. Islamabad has denied involvement and called for a credible international probe into it.
Since the attack, both nations have traded fire over their de facto in Kashmir, while diplomats have exchanged barbs and both countries have expelled citizens and ordered their land border shut. Both Pakistani and Indian forces have conducted military drills in a show of their military might, while Pakistan has Pakistan has test-fired a surface-to-surface missile with a range of 450 kilometers, amid fears India may conduct limited strikes against Pakistan on the pretext of the Kashmir attack.
With Islamabad engaged in active diplomacy to project its stance over the issue, Turkish Ambassador Dr. Irfan Neziroglu met Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif and expressed Ankara’s solidarity with Pakistan, Sharif’s office said on Saturday.
“The goodwill visit of TCG Büyükada stands as a testament to the ever-strengthening maritime collaboration between Pakistan and Türkiye,” the DGPR said. “It reflects the deep-rooted mutual trust and strategic partnership between the two brotherly nations, anchored in centuries-old historical and cultural ties.”

[rrsteer]

Never been much of a news guy, but as an ordinary bloke I too wanted to get the latest about the enemy getting a good dressing down. But I must say I am left shocked by the coverage of the western news media. CNN, BBC etc. appear to frame the situation in a manner that overlooks the underlying act of terrorism and instead casts India as the initiator or aggressor. Their narrative legitimizes Pakistan's version of events by presenting its statements as fact, while characterizing India's official responses mostly as mere claims. Furthermore, while quotes from the Pakistani ministers are prominently featured, statements from India's defence ministry are notably absent or lay hidden. This framing not only creates a misleading sense of parity between the two nations but also diminishes the seriousness of the provocation that prompted India's response.

It just changes my world view. Trump is right - CNN and their ilk are FAKE news. And in hindsight I would now totally endorse the Govt's past actions on BBC.

[speedmiester]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

It’s on Reuters.

US officials are saying that Pakistani J10 jets brought down at least two Indian fighter aircraft, including a Rafale.

https://www.reuters.com/world/pakist...ls-2025-05-08/

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/...le-2025-05-08/

I wouldn't trust Reuters as a credible news source. Unless it's confirmed from the Indian Defense sources, stop sharing western media's claims.

[volkman10]

US VP says war between India and Pakistan will be 'none of our business'

U.S. Vice President said, that India and Pakistan should de-escalate tensions, but he added that the U.S. cannot control the nuclear-armed Asian neighbors and a war between them would be "none of our business".

We want this thing to de-escalate as quickly as possible. We can't control these countries, though

What we can do is try to encourage these folks to de-escalate a little bit, but we're not going to get involved in the middle of war that's fundamentally none of our business and has nothing to do with America's ability to control it

Washington has held regular talks with both in recent days, when Secretary of State held calls with Pakistan's prime minister and India's foreign minister while urging them to de-escalate and have direct dialogue.

Source: Reuters

[notme]

General Asim Munir, Pakistan’s army chief, is seen as a growing threat due to his Islamist leanings and strategic power. He is linked to major terror attacks in Kashmir, including the recent Pahalgam massacre. Munir’s influence is rising as he tightens control over Pakistan’s government. His ideology marks a shift from previous military leadership. This makes him a more unpredictable and dangerous foe for India.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india-toda...637-2025-05-08

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Perhaps the Turkish ship never did dock there, or INS Vikrant didn't hit Karachi.

That ship should get the hell out of there before they become a stuffed turkey for Thanksgiving soon...

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

It’s on Reuters....US officials are saying that Pakistani J10 jets brought down at least two Indian fighter aircraft, including a Rafale.

Originally Posted by speedmiester

I wouldn't trust Reuters as a credible news source. Unless it's confirmed from the Indian Defense sources, stop sharing western media's claims.

Author is based in Karachi, Pakistan

[neeraj0272]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

...the coverage of the western news media. CNN, BBC etc. appear to frame the situation ..

... endorse the Govt's past actions on BBC.

Originally Posted by speedmiester

..I wouldn't trust Reuters as a credible news source.

Many members have expressed dissatisfaction with foreign media. If this is true then I just want to know why foreign media is behaving so? What Pakistanis have to offer to these media that we have not been able to?
CNN has even some kind of collaboration with Reliance group's News 18! Maybe other foreign media too has this kind of arrangement with Indian media!
Also most of us acknowledge the state of Indian media especially TV. Their news presentation is unwatchable - loud, full of repeating ugly animation & info graphics, news anchors and correspondents repeating same sentence multiple times in multiple ways using synonyms of same words treating like their audience is five years old etc.
I would love to know some Indian TV news channel which present news like BBC does.
Right now I use websites of Indian newspapers and websites of foreign TV channels like Reuters, CNN, BBC etc and Twitter.

https://x.com/RoflGandhi_/status/192...FxNlEFKgw&s=19

"
Big Update ��

Ceasefire to continue in Noida Film City till 5PM, studio battalion is taking rest after yesterday's heavy duty performance."

Maybe this tweet sums up the state of Indian TV media!