[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Good stuff, congrats on the loss! 15kg is a huge difference, I can imagine how you feel! Hats off

Thanks a lot! Now that am at 75, am targeting to eventually maintain around 72 (my height is 5'11"). I have started heavy strength training now which will reduce the fat but increase weight (muscle heavier than fat).

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Though I disagree on the whole breakfast thing , I'll refrain from harping on it. Whatever works, man! Nothing speaks louder than results.

I agree and refer to this article - LINK. Each individual needs to understand what works for him/her and go by it. There will be mistakes along the way but it's important to keep on trying.

Originally Posted by rajushank84

+1 on the fat-free milk. I went from 2% milk to fat-free milk to no milk now. But sometimes when I feel like a chai, fat-free milk is a godsend.

I am a "doodhwaala" so need my 2 cups of tea, paneer subzi once a day, 2 cups of yogurt, and some more milk here and there! Nothing better than fat-free milk for someone like me!

I have also started adding jau (barley) to the regular aata at home which aids in digestion (ratio 1:3).

Originally Posted by amitoj

Congratulations on your weight loss!
What do you do on cheat days? Eat what you wouldn't normally eat or skip the gym?

I would eat and drink anything and everything on my cheat day (read: pizza, pasta, dosa, etc). Also, there would typically be a couple of social outings over the weekend so would be some glasses involved as well (3 cheers for the Ola's and Uber's here!).

The cheat day is typically the weekend for me. Having said that, I would definitely keep an eye on the quantity of items I am eating / drinking to ensure there’s no hogging happening.

I aim to gym 5-6 times a week so either of Saturday or Sunday is typically skipped.

[Samurai]

What is the calorie count of a melted cheese meal like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LLO9SvlZl4

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by alpha1

I agree and refer to this article - LINK. Each individual needs to understand what works for him/her and go by it. There will be mistakes along the way but it's important to keep on trying.

I would also go through links when factoring in breakfast into a meal plan:

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/15/1077162...skip-breakfast
http://www.alternet.org/story/152260...corporate_scam
http://www.bornfitness.com/breakfast...mportant-meal/
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0...d-weight/?_r=0
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tten-it-wrong/
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35150598
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/24/up...breakfast.html
http://www.outsideonline.com/1924006...reakfast-wrong
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...wallowed-whole

My own take on breakfast: For fat loss, meal count, timing and frequency are irrelevant, what matters is most importantly quantity of food and then quality of food. If I am limiting my daily intake to a certain level, I have more food left at the end of the day and eat it towards the end. It works for me because I am less physically active in the morning. I go to the gym at night. So I find it easier to stay within my 1400 calories for the day if I save them up for the end of the day.

A different person may decide to workout in the morning, breakfast will work for him. That's fine, nothing wrong with breakfast per se. I just want to make the point that there is absolutely nothing special about breakfast compared to other meals, that it helps with weight loss. Similarly there is nothing wrong with eating at night - or midnight, or 3AM - that you would accumulate or lose weight based on that.

Human beings were hunter gatherers before we became agriculturists very recently. We (and all other animals) didn't have "breakfast". We had food whenever we found it. Our bodies and stomachs are very much capable of handling long periods of starvation. Those are not even very long these days, with 9pm and 10pm dinner . In this context, I find it difficult to believe something bad will happen to you if you don't eat first thing in the morning.

"Studies" that stress the importance of breakfast are funded by companies like Quaker oats and Kelloggs (coincidence!), and other neutral studies have already debunked those. Its similar to "studies" showing sugar has nothing to do with obesity - funded by Coca Cola! Do your own research, don't buy into it .

Of course, nothing wrong with having breakfast, but absolutely nothing wrong with skipping it either. Do whatever helps you eat less overall, to help with weight loss.

A traditional breakfast (Indian or American) can be the most detrimental thing to that IMO. 500 to 1000 calories gone before you even leave the house in the morning, that puts you in a difficult spot to stay under the (typically 1200-1500) limit for the entire day. Instead, I like to down 2 scoops of protein with water! Hardly any calories, and I have put a huge dent in my protein goals (out of 150, I have already hit 50!). That's just one example of what you can do.

I almost refrained from posting this, but I wanted the information to be there for anyone reading this with the intention of losing weight.

Be in a calorie deficit, hit your protein goals, workout with weights hard three times a week, enjoy your new waistline!

[noopster]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

My own take on breakfast: For fat loss, meal count and frequency are irrelevant, what matters is most importantly quantity of food and then quality of food. If I am limiting my daily intake to a certain level, I have more food left at the end of the day and eat it towards the end. It works for me because I am less physically active in the morning. I go to the gym at night. So I find it easier to stay within my 1400 calories for the day if I save them up for the end of the day.

That makes perfect sense . In the end it's net calorie deficit that will determine if you lose weight.

Human beings were hunter gatherers before we became agriculturists very recently. We (and all other animals) didn't have "breakfast". We had food whenever we found it. Our bodies and stomachs are very much capable of handling long periods of starvation. Those are not even very long these days, with 9pm and 10pm dinner . In this context, I find it laughable to suggest something bad will happen to you if you don't eat first thing in the morning.

There is cultural baggage associated with eating that cannot be explained away by science "Maa ke haath ke aloo parathe" or the sizzle of eggs in melting butter on a pan (and three slices of toast- ouch!)- it's enough to start your day on a bright note (and of course a huge calorie surplus). By its very name, you break the fast since your last meal the previous day. And another reason I rarely miss breakfast is the theory that if you starve your body beyond what it's used to, it tends to conserve fat when you do eventually eat (later in the day in this case).

Be in a calorie deficit, hit your protein goals, workout with weights hard three times a week, enjoy your new waistline!

Well said.

[rajushank84]

Thanks, noopster!

Originally Posted by noopster

And another reason I rarely miss breakfast is the theory that if you starve your body beyond what it's used to, it tends to conserve fat when you do eventually eat (later in the day in this case).

If that were true, IF (Intermittent Fasting) would never work. But anyone who tries IF reports amazing results. My understanding is fat creation or loss doesn't happen that quickly between meals, you have to accumulate a state of calorie deficit or excess over several days for it to happen (mostly during sleep). You could starve for the entire day and have one huge 1500 calorie meal, and if you are burning more than that then that's still a deficit, and you'll still burn fat. Well, that is basically IF.

[alpha1]

Oh boi, so the breakfast myth has again cropped up in the past few pages.
There is nothing great about breakfast compared to any other timed food like lunch, dinner, brunch, supper, etc

In order to understand why (which most nutritionists have no clue about) one must know what happens during the course of ingestion of food and digestion.

In a very simplified process (person with medical background may please correct the errors and introduce sufficient details):
1. The body has various organs which function every living second. These organs like brain, kidney, heart, etc require energy. Blood flows through vessels and capillaries and pumping of the blood consumes energy. Additionally, some energy (very low though) is expended by the skeletal muscles. {This is the reason why I have said earlier that training for strength or muscles will not make much of a difference to your goal of low fat}. ALL this is known as Basal metabolism. Something that your body requires to expend every living moment. Thyroid hormone circuit is very important in regulating this expenditure. Essentially body temperature is a good reflector of BMR. The lower your core body temperature - the lower your general metabolism.

2. Since we are not eating every living second, how do these organs continue function? How do they get energy sources to continue functioning? It is glucose mainly using the glycolysis and consequently the Kreb's cycle. But then at a given moment there are only a few teaspoonful of sugar in blood. The body will run out of it in minutes if not seconds.

3. The answer is glycogen stores. There are glycogen stores in the liver and muscles. And then there are fat stores all over the body. Glycogen can be converted to glucose at will (glycogenolysis) and fatty acids can directly be metabolized by the cells using the beta oxidation path.

4. So the number one thing that one must understand is that the body almost ALWAYS taps the STORED reserves for energy expenses. It doesn't matter what you feel about sleeping with full stomach or conversely having breakfast like a king. The food gets stored first, and body utilizes these stored deposits to live and sustain.

5. How are these reserves of fats and glycogen filled? That's when our feeding system comes into play. Whether we eat 100 times a day or once a day, or even once a week - it is broken down into simple sugars, amino acids and fatty acids. The liver converts the simple sugars into glycogen and STORES (glycogenesis). The fatty acids anyway get STORED. The amino acids (if found no use by the body for protein synthesis) also get converted to glucose (gluconeogenesis)! This is another reason why gulping down extra protein is not going to help unless supplemented with steroids. This glucose will also ultimately get STORED. What happens to excess glucose when glycogen stores are already full? It gets converted to fatty acids by the liver and STORED.

So tell me how will timing the meal frequency change any of the above (most "nutritionists" advise eating 5-6 times a day)?
Ultimately it is a simple balance
Food & Beverage In (count calories) = Fat deposit (measure blood triglyceride)+ Energy expenditure out (BMR + physical work)

And please remember eating more frequently does not raise the metabolism. It is a myth spread by protein supplement companies who want people to keep sipping/nibbling their expensive drinks/powders/bars throughout the day.

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

My own take on breakfast: For fat loss, meal count, timing and frequency are irrelevant, what matters is most importantly quantity of food and then quality of food.
…
Of course, nothing wrong with having breakfast, but absolutely nothing wrong with skipping it either. Do whatever helps you eat less overall, to help with weight loss.

On breakfast, all I can say is that it depends on the person and his schedule. For me, that's the only meal where I can put an effort since I am traveling most of the day (typically out of Mumbai). Hence, I pack in 6 egg whites and 2 slices of brown bread. I feel that this helps me in kick starting my day and keeps me full thereby reducing the craving for crappy food. At the same time, it's healthy, low on fat and high on protein. Due to travel, if I'm late for lunch, I can still survive.

My workouts are in the evening around 7pm. Prior to the workout, I ensure I have a couple of bananas and post the workout there is a protein shake. I agree that timing of food has nothing to do with metabolism - my dinner is typically at 9-10pm and going by traditionalists I should not be eating anything post sunset!

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Be in a calorie deficit, hit your protein goals, workout with weights hard three times a week, enjoy your new waistline!

Perfectly summarized. For anyone reading this and wanting to lose weight, PLEASE keep in mind the importance of weight training. Running 10km a day won’t do anything apart from screwing up your knees. You HAVE to do strength training in order to hasten the fat loss process.

Originally Posted by alpha1

And please remember eating more frequently does not raise the metabolism. It is a myth spread by protein supplement companies who want people to keep sipping/nibbling their expensive drinks/powders/bars throughout the day.

Bang on… I also don't agree with the eating frequently myth. How can working / traveling folks have a meal every 2 hours beats me. Solution: protein bar! Nonsense!!!

[Piyadassi]

My take on the phenomenon called eating.
http://exterminatingangel.com/eap-th...n-three-words/

I WAS LED TO THIS BOOK BY MYOSYNTHESIS.COM. AND THOUGH I HAVEN'T READ THIS BOOK BUT IT PRETTY WELL SUMS UP OUR ATTITUDE TO WEIGHT LOSS.

AND HERE I PASTE.

The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable (Incerto #2)

by Nassim Nicholas Taleb (Goodreads Author)
3.86 · Rating Details · 51,898 Ratings · 2,898 Reviews
A black swan is a highly improbable event with three principal characteristics: It is unpredictable; it carries a massive impact; and, after the fact, we concoct an explanation that makes it appear less random, and more predictable, than it was.

The astonishing success of Google was a black swan; so was 9/11. For Nassim Nicholas Taleb, black swans underlie almost everything about our world, from the rise of religions to events in our own personal lives.

Why do we not acknowledge the phenomenon of black swans until after they occur? Part of the answer, according to Taleb, is that humans are hardwired to learn specifics when they should be focused on generalities.

We concentrate on things we already know and time and time again fail to take into consideration what we don’t know. We are, therefore, unable to truly estimate opportunities, too vulnerable to the impulse to simplify, narrate, and categorize, and not open enough to rewarding those who can imagine the “impossible.”

For years, Taleb has studied how we fool ourselves into thinking we know more than we actually do. We restrict our thinking to the irrelevant and inconsequential, while large events continue to surprise us and shape our world. Now, in this revelatory book, Taleb explains everything we know about what we don’t know. He offers surprisingly simple tricks for dealing with black swans and benefiting from them.

Elegant, startling, and universal in its applications 'The Black Swan' will change the way you look at the world. Taleb is a vastly entertaining writer, with wit, irreverence, and unusual stories to tell. He has a polymathic command of subjects ranging from cognitive science to business to probability theory.

'The Black Swan' is a landmark book – itself a black swan.

The book also contains a 4-page glossary; 19 pages of notes; and, a 28-page bibliography in addition to an index. (less)

THE REVIEW IS FROM GOODREADS.COM

[ampere]

Originally Posted by noopster

And another reason I rarely miss breakfast is the theory that if you starve your body beyond what it's used to, it tends to conserve fat when you do eventually eat (later in the day in this case).

Originally Posted by rajushank84

If that were true, IF (Intermittent Fasting) would never work. But anyone who tries IF reports amazing results. My understanding is fat creation or loss doesn't happen that quickly between meals, you have to accumulate a state of calorie deficit or excess over several days for it to happen (mostly during sleep). You could starve for the entire day and have one huge 1500 calorie meal, and if you are burning more than that then that's still a deficit, and you'll still burn fat. Well, that is basically IF.

There is one more way IF can aid in fat loss. And that is if you couple with Ketosis. IF aids ketosis when combined with low carb diet. It can be used effectively to reduce fat. But its sustainable only with strict diet regimen. I have used it fairly well to come down. But I now use only IF with a bit higher carb intake and flat metabolism for the maintenance mode. I do binge once in a while and I do give in to that temptation of a steaming breakfast. But by and large, black coffee and IF have been internalised fairly well now.

I have come to realise I cant make it to gym with my lifestyle. I just use regular long walks to maintain my metabolism. I also realise in this process I am overlooking the strength part of it. But there is only so much which I can do given my time. And anything that I would like to do, I would want to have it in my daily schedule. Else it cannot be sustained.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by ampere

I have come to realise I cant make it to gym with my lifestyle. I just use regular long walks to maintain my metabolism. I also realise in this process I am overlooking the strength part of it. But there is only so much which I can do given my time. And anything that I would like to do, I would want to have it in my daily schedule. Else it cannot be sustained.

I fee ya! After trying several things, the only thing I managed to make work is finding a 24 hour gym, and then eating a late-night high-carb dinner (usually rice, idli or upma) and then going to the gym immediately.

The carb boost kicks in and helps me push through the squats. Then by the time I'm done with squats, that's when I start sipping the preworkout so that I can push through other workouts. It's usually 1am or sometimes even 2am by the time I'm done .

But then I have the luxury of being able to wake up at 10am so that's why this works for me.

The gym is so nice and empty an night.. It's all my own .

[ampere]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

But then I have the luxury of being able to wake up at 10am so that's why this works for me.

At some point in time, you may have to look for a better alternative. The reason being, how long can you sustain this schedule? But of course you are the best judge. For me its always been a long walk every day.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by ampere

At some point in time, you may have to look for a better alternative. The reason being, how long can you sustain this schedule? But of course you are the best judge. For me its always been a long walk every day.

I agree. I hope to be able to set up a home gym sometime (it's all about the space!) and then dial it back a bit to say an 8pm or 9pm workout. That way, all it would be cutting into is my TV/Facebook time.

[rajushank84]

Just came across this new article explaining what I already thought was fairly obvious: Exercise isn't man's best friend when it comes to losing weight - diet is. http://www.vox.com/2016/6/29/1205152...calories-video

A word of caution though - I tried the body weight planner linked to in that article, it seems to overestimate my TDEE. I know from trial and error that the muscleforlife TDEE calculator comes closest to my actual TDEE.

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

Just came across this new article explaining what I already thought was fairly obvious: Exercise isn't man's best friend when it comes to losing weight - diet is.

Quote from the article: The evidence is now clear: Exercise is excellent for health; it’s just not that important for weight loss. So don't expect to lose a lot of weight by ramping up physical activity alone.

Note of caution: They haven't distinguished between fat and muscle loss. My feeling is that in such a scenario, i.e. relying on diet, the weight loss would be higher due to a significant loss in muscle as well. This might not be the case in case of the running person referred to in the article - although he might drop only 5 pounds, it might be majorly fat which is being lost.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

Quote from the article: The evidence is now clear: Exercise is excellent for health; it’s just not that important for weight loss. So don't expect to lose a lot of weight by ramping up physical activity alone.

You are right ! Weight loss means pure pain.
Which means you need to under feed yourselves and suffer atleast 5 days a week of going through intense hunger pangs. & have good luck with managing that.

In case you get into a physical fight in this period. You will get beaten up for sure.