[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Yup, who knew the above conventional wisdom was completely wrong. Now am I able to eat egg/ghee/cheese/meat without any guilt.

Originally Posted by bblost

I agree that the carbs are something we tend to overlook.
Even my personal experience is that too eat healthy I will choose an extra roti instead of an extra serving of meat.

Surprised you folks figured this out so late - Page 5 had the same insight, back in 2009! http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post1575598

The problem in my case, is that knowledge != action. I eat well 2 days, and then on the third day, its regular food. And the cycle repeats. Maybe its a north Indian vegetarian thing, but I LOVE wheat. Give me roti and paneer or dal anyday, and I can live off it forever. as of last week, I've moved to besan or dal rotis for my carb fix. Let's see if that moves the needle, literally.

On a side note, here are a few points to ponder / debate. While I believe in reducing carbs (from an evolutionary standpoint), I think its like religion. Confirmation bias is very likely, given the conflicting amounts of information and studies out there.

A. choosing a protein rich diet (aka keto diet) also helps with starving cancer cells while sparing healthy cells: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/06/...ory-on-cancer/

Too long to be reproduced here, esp given the references. Thoughts, anyone?

B. In the 1930s, patients lost considerable weight and even cleared up Type 2 diabetes using a <10% (often ~2%) fat diet.

https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...ner-rice-diet/

C. A high tech experiment was done to measure the impact of a Keto vs sugar diet on body composition and weight loss, and it ended up disproving Taubes. Quote from the closed google group post:

This is the study: http://nusi.org/science-in-progress/...ce-consortium/ It was designed to measure as accurately as possible the total energy in minus the total energy out of 17 overweight-to-obese subjects, and to measure the body composition changes (DEXA-scan) resulting from about a 300 calorie deficit under a high carb/sugar diet, and then under a ketogenic diet.

Subjects lost fat more quickly on the 25% sugar high-carb diet than on the 80% fat / 15% protein / 5% carb ketogenic diet.

RQ charts show the subjects quickly went to fat oxidation (“fat adaptation”), and C-peptide shows a quick 50% insulin drop in ketosis.

Subjects lost lean mass in ketosis, but not under the high-carb diet. Not surprising, since insulin prevents proteolysis.

My conclusion? If you're following a KD for either weight loss or body composition, stop now. Run, don't walk to the nearest exit. If you just can't bear to give up insane amounts of butter and bacon, take the blue pill ... (snipped)
Be careful out there.

My takeaway is that in the end, there's nothing that works better than discipline. The people who stay thin are most often the folks who (un)consciously choose to eat clean and within limits (read reasonable calorie restriction).
PS: I've read Taubes

[bblost]

That liquid only diet scares me.

The reason I am so comfortable giving up wheat and rice is because I never really liked them.
But giving up meat is going to be almost incredible on a regular basis. Plus I really enjoy eating good food.

Losing 1.x kilos in ten days is certainly nothing great or awesome. But I have actually been eating really well and enjoying almost every meal.

These are some of these meals:

Tilapia:


Pomfret:


Tuna:


Brinjal and Greens


Tuna:


Greens, Lentils and Bones:


Liver Masala:



But its not easy giving up wheat.
I just came back from a birthday party without tasting the cake.
My dinner at the party was grilled chicken, sauteed vegetables and since I did not want to skip the biryani, I fished out chicken pieces and ate them.

No desert. :(
This no desert thing hurts me at a very deep level.

[vibbs]

I have been following this thread for some time. Read up on losing weight by cutting down on carbs. Must say it was quite eye opening.

I have managed to shave off 9 KGS and close to two inches on my waist since June 28th 2016. My target weight is 75 and am currently at 83.

Have not been able to completely eliminate Carbs hence never really went into Ketosis, but I am very satisfied with what I have achieved as of now. And all this without really starving. I eat eggs, ghee, oil, meat etc and don't really count the over all calories. Even got the blood work done couple of weeks back to keep an eye on the triglycerides and cholesterol now that I am eating so much fat. Intend to check it again in a couple of months.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Surprised you folks figured this out so late - Page 5 had the same insight, back in 2009! http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post1575598

The problem in my case, is that knowledge != action.

In my case, weight has never been a problem. Only recently I wanted to drop few to improve my chin-ups and swimming range. I was 86.5Kg July first week, but 82.5Kg in August 1st week, now holding steady. Goal is to maintain at 80kg. I just cut carbs by half, no idea about Ketosis.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

C. A high tech experiment was done to measure the impact of a Keto vs sugar diet on body composition and weight loss, and it ended up disproving Taubes. Quote from the closed google group post:

Are you referring to the following?

http://www.dietdoctor.com/how-kevin-...esis-pure-spin

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Please read that book, then you will realize what we are talking about. Right now you are thinking like I did two weeks ago. This is irrespective of exercising.

And you seem to making an assumption regarding my thoughts. Or maybe I missed something in your previous arguments.

I'll try to go through the book sometime later. Meanwhile plz do expand on your statement if you can.

Originally Posted by ampere

The question is can you sustain this? If not, then wont at some point in time, its bound to go back?

But apart from that, really impressive to hear about how you have gone up on your endurance levels.

Thanks.

Regarding sustenance, are you talking about the weight loss? Or the diet? Neither is feasible in my case. A year back, I left the slow-carb diet after 2 months simply because I understood I am too much of a foodie to really sustain that long term. A friend of mine who began it along with me still continues it for over a year and overall he hasn't done any much better than where I was (before I began the liquid diet). But he has no issues continuing it and plans to do so.

The liquid diet is due to an jaw injury and can not be ignored. Another week to go, and I'll be back to normal food intake. And probably a reshift back to around the 80kg figure.


But maintaining my current fitness - yes I believe it is very much possible. With normal eating habits and basic levels of exercise. I plan to start preparing and running full marathons by next year. My expectation is to stay in the late 70s which is very much possible for me.

Again as I said earlier, I'm not going to focus only on the scales, but to eat healthy and what I like. And there are some ground rules I have followed (not dedicatedly but as general guidelines) - so sodas, minimal liquor, no junk food (atleast not from the chains) and so on.

Originally Posted by bblost

That liquid only diet scares me.

The reason I am so comfortable giving up wheat and rice is because I never really liked them.
But giving up meat is going to be almost incredible on a regular basis. Plus I really enjoy eating good food.

...
This no desert thing hurts me at a very deep level.

My take - if you like something, please don't quit on it. Reduce if possible, but take a call after seeing how your body reacts to the level of intake you do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

My intention of posting here is not to flaunt any particular technique or method; it's just to state that even within the last 3 years, I have opted for different options and all of them have had different results. Some of these methods I have seen other friends follow and they have had varying results, some better off than me, some without any much improvement.

I find some of the posts having "why one method is better then the rest" kind of arguments - a lot of folks might be visiting this thread trying to start on getting fitter; I hope we don't pass on that kind of message to all.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

And you seem to making an assumption regarding my thoughts. Or maybe I missed something in your previous arguments.

I'll try to go through the book sometime later. Meanwhile plz do expand on your statement if you can.

I don't think I can explain that in few sentences. It is better you read that book, it explains all the scientific studies of 20th century regarding fat research, and makes you understand why people get fat.

Weight can be entirely controlled by eating right, it has nothing to do with exercise. Exercise only controls my fitness, not my weight. It came as a shock to me, considering I am a workout freak for 31 years. All these years I was thinking my weight is in control because of my workout. Duh!

[ampere]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Regarding sustenance, are you talking about the weight loss? Or the diet? Neither is feasible in my case.

I meant the liquid diet part. That does not seem sustainable to be me. Hence I asked.

As regards to low carb its definitely possible. I myself have at it for 2-3 years now. Its a lifestyle change no doubt, but not something impossible.


I dont go into a total keto-mode. But I use part fasting and part low-carb / fat mode to have my diet. But yes, I have not tried the next level of converting mass to muscle. Because that requires strength training, which I have never been able to fit into my schedule. But I do usual maintenance mode of 7km/hour walk on a daily basis (some thing which I have sincerely follow-up for over a decade).

Originally Posted by Samurai

Weight can be entirely controlled by eating right, it has nothing to do with exercise. Exercise only controls my fitness, not my weight. It came as a shock to me, considering I am a workout freak for 31 years. All these years I was thinking my weight is in control because of my workout. Duh!

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...ml#post3581715 (The Weight Loss Thread)

That exactly is what has been by view too.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Weight can be entirely controlled by eating right, it has nothing to do with exercise. Exercise only controls my fitness, not my weight. It came as a shock to me, considering I am a workout freak for 31 years. All these years I was thinking my weight is in control because of my workout. Duh!

Agree. Unfortunately a vast majority of us focus on weight reduction and not fitness or try to solve one using the other as you mentioned above.

Originally Posted by ampere

I meant the liquid diet part. That does not seem sustainable to be me. Hence I asked.

Answered my case in above post.

On a general basis, it's a personal choice. Liquid diet can be followed - I had issues the first week, but by now I am actually over-eating (/drinking) at times. I don't enjoy it so I wouldn't continue on it after this week.

As regards to low carb its definitely possible. I myself have at it for 2-3 years now. Its a lifestyle change no doubt, but not something impossible.

Yup, never said that. It's in my case, with my love for food, by which I decided to drop it.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by bblost

No wheat, potatoes and sweets. Reduced rice consumption.

I always thought and still think, roti [wheat] does not cause fat as does boiled potatoes [& not fried]

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I always thought and still think, roti [wheat] does not cause fat as does boiled potatoes [& not fried]

Agree - here's a news article on the same. 10kg lost on a potato only diet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-...say-yes---and/

I personally think its starchy carbs plus fats (butter on mashed potatoes, anyone?) that's the really sinful food group. You can consume ridiculously large # of calories without realizing what is happening!

[bblost]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I always thought and still think, roti [wheat] does not cause fat as does boiled potatoes [& not fried]

I started my experiment as a joke. To see how far I can go without wheat and also because it forced me to come up with creative meals.

So I suggest the same to you.
Go one week without wheat.
No biscuits, cakes, roti's, phulkas, breads etc.

If you suspect there is wheat, don't eat it.

Try for exactly one week and let us know how it went.
If you feel like I did, I am sure you will extend the week to ten days and then a little more.

[graaja]

It is great to see many here following the low carb diet and also being successful. I would like to share my experience with Low Carb dieting.

I have been struggling with my weight for more than 15 years, of which I have been very active in the last 5 years. A couple of years back I did a 2 months program called Insanity with strict diet control and brought my weight down from 94 to 82kg. After this I started various activities like cycling (with regular 50km rides, several 100km rides and a couple of 200km brevets), running (regular 5km runs, several 10km runs and a half marathon) and tennis. Thinking that this active lifestyle will sustain my weight, I fell back to my regular diet (rice, rotis, regular coffees etc), and within a year went back to 89KGs. That is when I realized diet is the only way to weight control. All the physical activities can keep you fit, but will not help in weight loss.

And then a friend told about the book "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes. This book was an eye opener. Here is the gist of what the book says.

Anything that becomes sugar in blood can contribute to weight gain. And in the three macros (carbs, proten and fat), carbs is the only macro that spikes sugar in blood. Spike in sugar levels in blood results in insulin secretion. Insulin tells the cells to use this sugar as energy source. Insulin is also called storage harmone as it also instructs fat cells to convert sugar into triglycerides which is nothing but fat. Over a period of time, as we get old, cells develop something called insulin resistance. Because of this, they do not use the sugar from the blood for energy, and the body being a good regulating mechanism tells the pancreas generates more insulin. The cells become more insulin resistant and body generates more insulin. This chain reaction continues and at some point, the pancreas maxes out and this is what we call as diabetes where we need to supplement our body with external insulin source.

So, carbs can be said as the main cause of diabetes and obesity. The genetic makeup of a person also plays a key role. There are persons who can eat as much carbs as they want without their cells becoming insulin resistant and stay lean. There are persons who convert anything that is carb into fat. This is why a diet that works for one may not work for another. Cutting only sugars is enough for some, cutting sugar and simple carbs like rice, potatos work for some and cutting everything carbs including wheat is required for some.

If you limit the carbs to less than 25% of your macros, you are sure to loose weight. This is the basic concept of LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) diets like Paleo, Atkins diet etc.

In general,

Avoid the following:
Sugar - That filter coffe, masala chai, can of pepsi or coke, those gulab jamuns, everything that has sugar should go
Simple Carbs - White rice, anything made of maida like white bread, pastries etc., pastas
Complex Carbs - For people with totally bad genetic coding, even complex carbs like whole wheat, grains, cereals should go
Starchy vegetables - Potatoes (fried or baked or boiled does not matter), beets etc

Eat a lot of the following:
Meat
Eggs - Eat them whole
Nuts - Badam, Pista, Walnuts
For vegetarians, full fat yoghurt, paneer, full fat milk etc
All vegetables other than the starchy vegetables

I have been following this for the past three months and have lost 9 kgs (89kg to 80kg). I do add a little carbs in the morning around my daily workout (cycling, running, swimming), but avoid them in the afternoon and evening meals. I also have that occasional cheat meal once in 10 days or 2 weeks.

Now I have learnt the lesson that this is not a diet that you follow for a couple of months to lose weight, but a lifestyle change that you need to follow for the rest of life.

[Navneet]

I am 50 and weigh 114 - 115 kg on a 183 cm heavy built frame. I am at my weightiest and poorest fitness levels. Want to halt and reverse the situation as it has started to manifest in health issues. Excess weight has also taken its toll on the weight bearing joints and they have started to protest. In the past, I made two attempts at losing weight - 5 and 3 years back. Both the times, I regulated my calories & walked 4-5 km everyday (input - output method) and lost 7 - 8 kg each time by creating calorie deficit. Progress was quite slow and took a while. But the weight came back each time as I slacked back on the control. Tea with sugar must have been the biggest culprit as I have been drinking up to 10 cups a day. The last time I was in double digit weight must have been at least 10-12 years back.

Have been reading up the positive experience of a lot of people on losing weight by following LCHF diet. I have also decided to go LCHF way to attempt to lose weight / fat. Need/want to lose 25 kg. Need all your encouragement, guidance and support. Have been reading up on resources mentioned / recommended in this blog. Wish me good luck, motivation and resolve to finally take this monkey off my back.

@bblost - loved the pics of your recipes. As you are currently following LCHF diet, please continue to post pics of your recipes to generate ideas for recipes.

Can we have handfuls of almonds and peanuts (salted and fried in butter) as regular snacks?

As liberal quantities of meat are allowed, will it be alright to have chicken curry and mutton curry? Asking because these dishes are made daily in the lunch served at office.

Planning to substitute tea with Mother's Dairy Tadka Chhach, whenever energy levels dip.

[Samurai]

I was always eating as much as I want, whatever I want, while maintaining the weight between 84-86kg. I figured it was because I was working out regularly. I was happy with my weight, so I didn't do any adjustment.

In May I decided to cut my weight to 80Kg in order to improve my chin-ups and swimming distance. So I added an additional hour of cardio to my workout everyday. After a whole month, I didn't reduce even 100g. It left me very confused. But in July I tried a different method, I cut down my breakfast by 2/3 and lunch/dinner by half. I didn't even workout in July because I had a bruised rib. I lost 4Kg in one month.

Co-incidently I started reading Gary Taubes referred by tifosikrishma two weeks ago in this thread. Now I know why I lost those 4Kg, it was mostly carbs I had cut. I eat loads of meat and egg anyway, which I hadn't reduced.

Now that the mystery is solved, I do have a problem. If I do away with anything based on rice, wheat and sugar, what is left?

Originally Posted by graaja

Eat a lot of the following:
Meat
Eggs - Eat them whole
Nuts - Badam, Pista, Walnuts
For vegetarians, full fat yoghurt, paneer, full fat milk etc
All vegetables other than the starchy vegetables

This is definitely useful, but can we expand this list?

Nutrition info on almonds says it has 49% fat and 22% carbs or Cashew nut has 44% fat and 30% carbs. How can this be good? Am I reading it wrong?

[Navneet]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Nutrition info on almonds says it has 49% fat and 22% carbs or Cashew nut has 44% fat and 30% carbs. How can this be good? Am I reading it wrong?

Out of 22% carbs in Almonds, 12% is dietary fibre, which is not to be counted as carbs while following low carb diet. what you take into account is Net Carbs = Total Carbs - Dietary Fibre.