[Samurai]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Good to know that colourism, casteism, sexism, religious discrimination, linguistic racism, skewed quota/reservation systems etc. in the world’s most populous country hasn’t affected some BHPians in anyway as much as being allegedly bumped from a business to economy class seat due to colourism. It is a privilege indeed, and they should absolutely enjoy it where it’s available. Not everyone is as privileged.

Hmm, I don't think you understood what we (androdev/VN/myself) are trying to say. But it is okay, our sensibilities are different. You should make your decision based on your comfort factor and experiences.

[navin]

Originally Posted by alpha1

• Corruption: Yes, it is there, but how many of us face this in our regular daily lives? Perhaps once in 10 years for a passport or driving license, once in 5 years for an LPG connection?
• Quality of life: as if most Indian people abroad have great social lives. Agreed, there could be more avenues for leisure activities because "Goras" are supposedly more active and Indians are more workaholic having no extra-curricular interests & hobbies; but since this is in our DNA, is it going to change when we move abroad?
• Healthcare & medical: debatable point when most of the people from abroad are coming to India for medical tourism
• Income: Don't even get me started. This point makes sense only if you are coming back to India with stashed suitcases of Ben Franklins that will make you super rich back here. If you are staying there, then your expenses will be higher by the same proportions. Besides, most of the elite metro yuppies in India have household incomes >50 lakhs per annum.
• Children's education: I think what they intend to mean is that due to low competition and a wider choice of professions earning decent money, the children's life and transition to adulthood is easier. Yeah, OK great point on this one

1. With the digitization of passports, driving licenses, etc., there is no real challenge for most Indians.

2. From my interactions, I understand that the current generation of working Indians (those between 30 and 55) seem to understand and recognize work-life balance better than the older generation (60+).

3. Healthcare in India is excellent for those who can afford private healthcare; it is not so great for the rest. Regarding medical tourism, other than dental work, most Indians get their healthcare in the country they live in. The US system is mired in an inflationary spiral (but it is tolerable if your employer insures you), but European countries offer very good healthcare for marginal cost.

4. I agree with your income analysis. Most kids in my son's generation (early 20s) find that they save more if they return to India than if they work in the US. Other than Mumbai, most of India has affordable rent options. Then again, living in Mumbai is equivalent to living in Manhattan.

5. If you are fortunate to study at an English-medium private school in India, your primary education will rival that of any US or European school. I agree that when it comes to advanced degrees, the US and Europe offer more options with lower levels of competition.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

To be brutally honest I did not migrate because at least in my case as a self-employed my income in actual purchasing capacity would have not changed much but my status as an important mongrel on my street would have fallen.

Agreed. Someone once told me (rather crassly) that "it is better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven."

For the privileged 10-20%, India offers a better standard of living, healthcare, work-life balance, social network, etc. For the rest who have to struggle with life's challenges, such as public transport, housing, etc., migrating makes more sense.

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

- High crime rate.

Have you seen the level of gun violence in the US?

I was visiting Chicago and staying in what everyone said was a safe neighborhood. We (my wife and I) used to walk through a park near our hotel every day. We would pick up a couple of sandwiches and soft drinks, sit on a bench, feed the geese and ducks, and watch the world go by.

On day 3, we met one of our son's friend's parents for lunch. When we told them what our routine had been, they cautioned us. Just the day before we arrived, there had been shooting in the same park, near the bench we used. See the map of shootings and overall crime in Chicago below.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/vi...649114725&z=14
https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...ime-Dashboard/

Before our son moved to Chicago, I emailed them for advice on where he (our son) should stay, and this was the advice we got (quoted verbatim).
"Yes, Physics is at 57th and Ellis. It is not a war zone, but I do not want Sarah to live there.
If your budget allows it, I would search for an apartment near Hyde Park Avenue (on its North-South portion) between 51st Street and 56th Street. We live just off of this at 54th Street."

Chicago is not alone in this. Crime is so bad in most major cities in the US (NYC, Baltimore, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Atlanta, etc.) that universities in these cities have had to create ecosystems to protect their kids, such as providing "unlimited free rides" during late hours.
Source: https://safety-security.uchicago.edu...mail%20address.

Originally Posted by Samurai

You still get judged by the color of your skin than the content of your character or bank account.

I understand what you mean, but this happens in India too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTUiGWJinX0

[download2live]

Originally Posted by alpha1

To all those contemplating or on the path of immigrating to foreign lands: what is it that you really hate about India that made you decide to leave?

This is not an easy question to answer. Everyone is different.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

India is a harsh environment. To succeed here in the fullest sense you need to be in the top 0.2% or even finer. Some one at the 75th percentile, which is still very good, struggles because of competition, obstacles, sluggish way in which things work here and unfair exercise of influence. For that 75th percentile person moving to the West is a better option.

Originally Posted by androdev

Being a well-to-do Indian in India is the next best thing to be a white European in Europe I think. I would love to be in Europe but only as a local white person.

Originally Posted by navin

For the privileged 10-20%, India offers a better standard of living, healthcare, work-life balance, social network, etc. For the rest who have to struggle with life's challenges, such as public transport, housing, etc., migrating makes more sense.

I am guilty of selecting only those sections which resonated with me.
It is very wise advice for a typical average Joe.

Regarding acceptance, all I can say is that it does not even happen in India when a person travels interstate for a job.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Thanks for confirming that you actually didn’t have any relevant personal experiences to share. At best it’s based on hearsay or assumed alleged discrimination. But that's your call.

I’ve lived in India for long enough to very well know what discrimination and made to feel unwelcome is.

If the below is the best that can be shared to support the statement, “As a brown skinned person, that's hardly welcome anywhere no matter how affluent I become”, then I’m sure readers can make their own judgement.

That business class downgrade is my personal experience. I was driving a convertible top down and I was shown the middle finger. I can share many personal experiences but I have a strong suspicion that you are extrapolating workplace multicultural bonhomie to what happens on the streets, or you haven't gone out much.

Good to know that colourism, casteism, sexism, religious discrimination, linguistic racism, skewed quota/reservation systems etc. in the world’s most populous country hasn’t affected some BHPians in anyway as much as being allegedly bumped from a business to economy class seat due to colourism. It is a privilege indeed, and they should absolutely enjoy it where it’s available. Not everyone is as privileged.

Would you find it more acceptable if ALL Indians are suffering those evils of the society and NONE of us should escape the misery unless we immigrate? How does not being affected by such social problems become a privileged life? Are you one of those NRIs, who not only wants good things happen to them in the new country but also bad things to happen to those who stayed back in India - so that you can feel double happy about your decision? I hope not - I've seen too many of them in my life.

If someone doesn't have anything in India to look forward to, then it's an easy decision to buy one way ticket and enjoy queuing up for residency/citizenship. Those who are on the fence and starting their adult life, need to discard the outdated construct of "immigration as a means to change residency/citizenship" and view themselves as "future expats who can have the best of both worlds."

[akhil_007]

Originally Posted by kiku007

I have worked abroad earlier and I didn't see the world his way. I spoke to numerous people in Australia (multiple nationals) and sought their advice to tailor my job-search approach. Guess what? I did get a leadership role in my first job.

Work environment in an MNC/Corporate world is not a reflection of the society outside. Being accepted by the society "outside" of your work is what matters for assimilation(on both sides)

Originally Posted by Samurai

I don't believe he is referring to professional or financial success.
You still get judged by the color of your skin, than the content of your character or bank account. In India nobody will mind your skin color once you are successful.

Very apt example and can be extrapolated easily. Let me share my trivial experience. When I was in NY, we were returning after late night movie and went to small Subway for a quick bite. There were 2 people in queue ahead of me. An Indian lady(South Indian) dressed in business casuals and a white lady in party wear. The payment(multiple cards) did not go through for the Indian lady and she was asked to pay by cash or they could not provide her the sub. She left feeling slightly embarrassed(which I could sense). The white lady had the same issue but this time, the subway person handed over her food for free saying maybe the machine is faulty. The Indian lady was standing outside (maybe around 10 feet from the counter) speaking on the phone. The subway person could have called her back in and offered her the sub. But she did not. The courtesy and benefit of doubt offered is definitely not the same.
Next was my turn. I was scanned top-to-bottom and asked if I carried enough cash to pay for my sub.

On the contrary, I(a South Indian) recently visited multiple hotels, palaces and many shops in Rajasthan(all non touristy). I have been treated very well(I think if you dress well, you get treated well in India)

Originally Posted by androdev

That business class downgrade is my personal experience. I was driving a convertible top down and I was shown the middle finger. I can share many personal experiences but I have a strong suspicion that you are extrapolating workplace multicultural bonhomie to what happens on the streets, or you haven't gone out much.

Very well written. I think few years in workplace would also show the preference/difference during career progression.

[amitoj]

My main reasons:
1. Better return on my taxes
2. Knowing that if, God forbid, a loved one needs to be taken to a hospital in an ambulance, the chances of the ambulance getting stuck in a traffic jam are very low compared to India.
3. My English is way better than my Kannada

[V.Narayan]

As some readers of this thread would know I am a nationalist to my khadi button holes. Emigration is too personal a choice to be up for a debate. It is like debating whether the spouse a Team BHP member married is beautiful/compatible/ideal or not. If it works for him that is all that matters. If a man enjoys the fact that he migrated then really that is all that matters. My opinion that migration sucks is not relevant.

Regardless of my khadi button holes I'll state that we in India are racist to the core. We are racist to those poorer, less well clothed or darker skinned than us. That's in our reflex action DNA. Those of us on this forum do not feel it because we are the creamy layer.

Having said that many of us do encounter minor acts of racism in Western countries. Or rather I'd say rudeness arising out of a stereotype the white has in his mind about brown skins. It is minor in nature though it may happen often enough. And who knows enough of our desh wasis and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis have indulged in behaviour to lend credence to that stereotype and fuel the prejudice. Rude behaviour from airline, hotel staff happens, not always but often enough. Taxi drivers in Paris deserve a prize in nastiness. One could say taxi drivers in Delhi deserve a prize for rooking tourists. When travelling abroad wear a thick skin for some rude behaviour, complete your business and keep moving.

From a brownie's perspective --> Lousiest airline staff - pick any American carrier; Meanest taxi drivers - Paris by a long shot; Most unhelpful and snarly hotel staff - France with some parts of the US competing for position; Employee horribilis - East Europeans {my exposure limited to Hungarians and Slovaks}; most dishonest hotel/shop staff - Chinese /Hong Kongers. Diversity rocks.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by androdev

That business class downgrade is my personal experience. I was driving a convertible top down and I was shown the middle finger. I can share many personal experiences

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Let me share my trivial experience.

My 2 cents - I believe it is key, that how flexible one is in an environment that is not "home territory" to the individual; and overlooks any additional steps that s/he needs to take up. I have lived my life outside my home state all my 42+ years - across Gujarat, Kerala, Maharashtra and now Karnataka. I have not spent more than 3 months in my home state/town through out this time.

It's in my blood to be flexible and adjust where needed; and accept that I won't be treated as equally as a localite. And that's been the case right from my school days. Or during my college days in Kerala; or my professional years across Maharashtra and Karnataka. Heck, we have an active thread about Bangalore with numerous incidents of non-localites facing additional trouble from local hooligans.

So facing an additional layer of suspicion in the US over the many years I spent there; not being given the same treatment a white / local guy gets is very much acceptable to me. Or the same in the Middle East or South-East Asia. But that's me; I don't expect everyone to be that adjustable.

But having said that, I find the view over the last few pages on this thread; that this (/racism) should be a key reason to not consider emigration a very flawed approach. Emigration needs to be looked with a long term view across multiple lens. And the outcomes that come out of that for one individual will be very different to someone else, so no two experiences are going to be same.

I would advise everyone to keep that in mind and make the right decision; whatever that is for them. If someone had a bad experience (or multiple); it's one out of millions of data-point to keep in mind; not a necessity that it will happen to you the same way.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by androdev

I was driving a convertible top down and I was shown the middle finger.

Been driving here for 12 years and never once was shown the finger purely because of the skin of my color. However, as a passenger, I have witnessed my fellow desi drivers being shown the finger but that's because they were completely oblivious to the driving etiquettes that they were breaking.

EDIT: I did once get yelled at and I thought it was because of my color. But later I realized it was because I was wearing a NY Yankees cap in Boston area! That's like wearing a Pakistani cricket team's jersey in most parts of India.

[SmartCat]

Mod Note: I have added a poll. Please vote:



Those not eligible to vote can view the poll results by clicking on this link:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shift...in-reason.html

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Mod Note: I have added a poll. Please vote:

Thanks! Really tough for me to pick between better infrastructure and kids' future though. Maybe create a new thread titled "Why You Emigrated?" and add the poll there as a multiple choice?

[v1p3r]

I think that V.Narayan, androdev, and amitoj have provided remarkably honest perspectives. One cannot ever obtain unbiased opinions, but one can hope for people who are honest in their biases.

As someone who has emigrated multiple times (is that illogical?!), I have some informed views on contentious issues like culture, family, opportunity. Of course, these are coloured by my own experiences, but I have the advantage of having family and friends who have moved independently of each other, based on their specific circumstances. I spent a lot of time asking them and analyzing this stuff.

1. Career opportunity - India is not at the same level as the US for most careers today. Even if you take tech / IT, the bulk of the real product dev, R&D is done outside India. Same goes for manufacturing, finance, science. A simple yardstick is how many world-beating innovative companies have their HQs in India - and I don't count Jio's financial engineering as true innovation. For anyone who wants to apex their career as an employee, the US is the end goal. If you are in finance, maybe London. The exception to this is if you start a business in India, which may lead to much higher returns. Again, starting the same business in the US will similarly lead to higher returns than India, but these tend to be outlier cases. Dealing with GoI while running a biz is something that I don't wish on anyone. If you look at non-tech, non-finance, there is very little real growth, and thus low opportunity. As someone pointed out very well earlier, 75% in India is a struggle and has much lower reward than 75% in an OECD country.

2. Culture - There is nothing unique about what we are calling 'Indian culture' on this thread. What we think of as 'our culture' - close knit families, generational living together, exists in eastern and southern Europe, MENA, and south-east Asia. In India itself, our cultures vary drastically. I am the product of at least two diametrically opposite cultures - one very misogynist where women were burnt on funeral pyres as recently as a few decades ago, and one where the whole state is educated and women have prescribed social equality. I identify with the latter, and would happily give up any link with the former if it were up to me.

3. Taxation - We pay Sweden taxes for sub-Saharan infrastructure. Anyone who denies this is living in some blinkered alternate reality. One DLF or BKC does not equate a country. And as an income tax payer, I don't know why I'm subsidizing another state with no law-and-order, poor education and human development, and no real hope for the future. For those who will now say it's my duty, I humbly suggest you donate a significant portion of your income to me to teach me how it's my duty. Maybe I'll learn.

4. Infrastructure - A direct result of taxation. If I have a heart attack in India, I am dead. No ambulance will get here to me in time. Once I die, my relatives will have to bribe the morgue attendant for my body, if it's a government hospital. My train ticket buys me a seat on a train that is half a century old in technology. The roads I drive on and pay for twice - one through tax, once through tolls - have more holes than a Govinda movie plot. Maybe this is a Bangalore speciality, I can't say for sure. When it comes to social and legal frameworks, just try filing a case if a builder cheats you and see what happens. Unless you 'know people', your salaried, upper-middle class bubble is going to burst like an unsightly pimple.

5. Safety - This is a subset of infrastructure and culture, but here we are. Anyone equating school shootings with safety of women in India has something wrong in their understanding. School shootings are horrendous, preventable tragedies, just like trains in India derailing. Women being raped, molested, and abused in India has no equivalent. This is a forum of men, so i don't expect full understanding. But ask yourself why it's perfectly safe for drunk women in party attire to be out in the middle of the night in London, but not in Delhi. Or how girl children of rich parents in the west and south east Asia regularly take public transport to school, but none of you will send your kids by DTC or BMTC if you could afford any better. I do not have children, but if I had daughters this one aspect would be enough to make me move abroad. Do you know why autos (at least in BLR) have a rear-view mirror inside?

6. Elder care - this is hugely personal and thus opinions may vary. As an only child, I've planned the next 20 years of my life so that I can either afford to have my parents live with me anywhere in the world, or be free enough to move to wherever they are. Not everyone has this luxury - I've seen my cousins' grandparents suffer because of a lack of generational planning and foresight. As for grandparents-grandkids, I have no opinion as I have no children. I didn't grow up around my grandparents, and I don't feel any lacuna.

7. Cost of labour - this is a massive massive factor that most people don't think about in detail. I moved back to start a business in India because the labour arbitrage was crazy - 10x for a decent software developer. My business is now profitable, which might not have happened at present scale / trajectory in the US. This advantage has gone down over the last decade but it will never disappear. Similarly, my housekeeper in London gets paid 26x what a similar role in India would pay.

8. Racism - I can't say I've ever faced direct racism, except for one drunk woman who muttered something about her 'country and jobs' and was immediately wheeled away by a very apologetic red-faced companion. When I studied abroad, I noticed that immigrant/international students tended to have lower marks, and I took this straight to the dean with distinct evidence. The response was reasonable, though the outcome wasn't entirely satisfactory. I've also been fortunate to live in countries where Indians are generally known to be educated, and different from Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. I wouldn't expect such pleasant treatment in Russia or Japan. Like any south Indian, I have heard the words 'andu-gundu', 'madrasi', 'kallu', thrown about like delightful nicknames.

9. Cleanliness - India has the worst air quality in the world. This may not seem like a big deal, but it's the equivalent of smoking so many cigarettes a day. Pretty big deal if your child is doing it at the age of 8. There's no escaping this. Again, it ties into our infrastructure and taxation. It's a very avoidable problem that corrupt government officials don't want to tackle.

10. Food - India is one of the greatest food countries of the world. We just get food. We get it like white people get racism. We're born experts. I can live on an Italian or Asian diet without a problem, but there is really no comparison to the breadth and depth of Indian cuisine. Jesus, even the hamburgers in Bombay and Bangalore are better than London. If food is important to you, you have automatically ruled out 90% of the world to emigrate to. Food is the single largest reason I'm happy to have been born Indian.

11. Travel - I'm forever amused by the rich jet-set who talk of seeing the Grand Canyon and don't know where Gandikota is. India, by virtue of its size and history, has unparalleled treasures of history, art, and architecture. If you can brave the infrastructure and cleanliness (both are improving), then it's a tourist paradise that makes history books come alive like few other places on earth. And of course, the food's great wherever you go!

[navin]

Originally Posted by Samurai

You should make your decision based on your comfort factor and experiences.

Samu, do you believe (based on any anecdotal or other evidence) that racism in the US has increased since the 90s?

The reason I ask is that in all my time living there, I only experienced direct racism twice. Once, I was at a Neiman Marcus in Chicago where the security guard profiled me and kept a discrete but obvious eye on me, and once, when cops decided to park themselves outside my godparent's home, wondering what I was doing there. (For those who don't know me, I am 100% Indian. But my godfather was Irish, and my godmother was Norwegian. They lived in a rather upscale area of LA, and both have passed on now).

When matters reached a head, we found out that both times, I had been mistaken for a Puerto Rican! Talking about "being Puerto Rican," I used to frequent some rather shady neighbourhoods in NY, so I used to dress the part (think big afro, sleeveless denim jacket, earrings, bandana, etc.).

My cousin (in Mumbai) had a lady who worked in their home. I had heard of her but never met her. The lady (Gracie) managed to find a family willing to sponsor her, and she migrated to the US (NYC). On her day off, she used to visit my aunt, who lived in Brooklyn. One early morning, still recovering from a night out, I decided to visit my aunt but did not inform her I was coming. I got off the train and sauntered causally to my aunt's home (with my typical Brooklyn swag). My aunt was only too happy to see me.

About 30 minutes later, there was a doorbell and Gracie was at the door. She looked at me, and her face turned white (figuratively). She was on the same train. She got off the train, and so did I. She walked up the stairs, and so did I. She was walking to my aunt's home, and so was I. The poor girl got so scared that she took off and headed to the nearest church. Then, realizing I was nowhere in sight, she backtracked to return to my aunt's home. When I opened the door, she thought I had somehow found out where she was headed, reached ahead of her, killed my aunt, and was going to kill her. Luckily, my aunt called out; otherwise, the poor girl was ready to bolt. Then my aunt tells me, "Have you looked at yourself in the mirror?"

Originally Posted by amitoj

I have witnessed my fellow desi drivers being shown the finger but that's because they were completely oblivious to the driving etiquettes that they were breaking.

EDIT: I did once get yelled at and I thought it was because of my color. But later I realized it was because I was wearing a NY Yankees cap in Boston area!

Don't tell me this was at Fenway!

A NJ State Trooper pulled me over for going 5 or 7 mph (I forget which, but it was a negligible amount) over the limit on I95. It wasn't racism. I was driving a car with NY plates. A friend who was an NY state trooper later explained that they had an ongoing issue with out-of-state cars.

The same NY trooper (we visited the same Deli every morning) got his colleague to let me off after giving me a ticket for doing 55 mph in a 35 mph zone. All I did was contest the ticket and show up in court. The cop "missed" (wink, wink) the date, and the judge ruled in my favour by default. The cop, the deli owner, his staff (mostly women), everyone at the local bowling alley, and everyone in the small town I lived in knew me as "Vinny the Shoe.". I will leave the rest to your imagination.

So my advice is that when you think you are a victim of racism (and I am not saying there is no racism), first check to see if you have done something to deserve it.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by androdev

As a brown skinned person, that's hardly welcome anywhere no matter how affluent I become, I consider fortunate to belong to this country.

I would love to be in Europe but only as a local white person.

Originally Posted by Samurai

I don't believe he is referring to professional or financial success. In USA, Indians are financially the most successful ethnic group.

You still get judged by the color of your skin, than the content of your character or bank account. In India nobody will mind your skin color once you are successful.

So I don't deny there is widespread racism in the US but with my recent experiences in the New York City / NJ area I do feel the financial reputation of Indians has increased exponentially in the last few years.

I moved back to the US after 25+ years in 2022. I lived in the US as a child in the late 1980s-mid 1990s and then moved back to India. Back then Indians did have a pretty stingy reputation.

Some experiences I have had:
1. In in the initial few weeks in NYC I used to walk into many upmarket apartment buildings(many way beyond my budget and most of the time dressed in shorts and flip-flops) in Manhattan asking to see apartments without any appointment. In many of them the receptionist would simply hand over keys to vacant apartments to take a look, even if they were not available or no one from the leasing office was present. They never even bothered asking for any ID or even a name. I got to see a few fancy penthouses like this
2. Telling a sales person you recently moved from India and are looking for a luxury car seems to make them think you are loaded will buy the car with every single markup on the first visit to the dealership. I had similar experiences at two different car dealers, I also noticed there were a lot of Indians shopping for cars at the dealerships.
3. Due to interests of my better half I sometimes found myself in showrooms of luxury retail shops. I found many times the sales person would follow around Indian customers and be overtly helpful to them. Often I saw groups of Indian tourists in these shops trying on some obscenely priced merchandise. I later found out these are top 0.0001% of Indians in India who come to buy luxury goods in bulk because they are much cheaper here than in India. I think the sales folks mistakenly think all Indians are like them. I've seen this type of behavior from sales people both in NYC and malls outside the metropolitan area.
4. The management of the apartment building I live in often bends the rules for Indians (they are about 30%+ of the tenants). I won't go into the details as I'm one of the beneficiaries....

At least in the NYC metropolitan area the only color that matters is "green"

Originally Posted by navin

When matters reached a head, we found out that both times, I had been mistaken for a Puerto Rican!

My wife and I visited Puerto Rico last year and I think it has most friendliest people in the world. Almost all the locals thought we were locals also and tried to speak to us in Spanish. If people are still confused now, imagine how confused Columbus must have been!

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by androdev

That business class downgrade is my personal experience. I was driving a convertible top down and I was shown the middle finger.

Sorry to know about the business class downgrade and the rude behaviour of a road user. As I said before, there’s no correlation or evidence that both were due to skin colour.

The following is very common,

Originally Posted by amitoj

However, as a passenger, I have witnessed my fellow desi drivers being shown the finger but that's because they were completely oblivious to the driving etiquettes that they were breaking.

EDIT: I did once get yelled at and I thought it was because of my color. But later I realized it was because I was wearing a NY Yankees cap in Boston area! That's like wearing a Pakistani cricket team's jersey in most parts of India.

Originally Posted by navin

So my advice is that when you think you are a victim of racism (and I am not saying there is no racism), first check to see if you have done something to deserve it.

Here’s a pro tip,
If you are dressed and look like someone in their 20s or 30s, have AirPods on your ears, keep looking at your phone AND stand alone at the pickup point at a restaurant, there’s a high chance they’ll assume you are an Uber Eats driver. Not racism.

Originally Posted by androdev

I can share many personal experiences but I have a strong suspicion that you are extrapolating workplace multicultural bonhomie to what happens on the streets, or you haven't gone out much.

Originally Posted by akhil_007

Work environment in an MNC/Corporate world is not a reflection of the society outside. Being accepted by the society "outside" of your work is what matters for assimilation(on both sides)

I’m afraid your assumptions are incorrect. Allow me to clarify. I have worked and travelled to UK, Europe and UAE several times before eventually migrating on a more permanent basis. I am very well aware of the difference in life experiences between the two, and I’m cognizant of that when I share my thoughts. Most recently, my feedback on the Netherlands to a gentleman asking about raising children there was I don’t have any personal experience to share because I only visited the place. I like data and I pointed him in the direction of data. Similarly, you can trawl this thread to find what I have shared about living with a family and building social connections.

Originally Posted by androdev

Would you find it more acceptable if ALL Indians are suffering those evils of the society and NONE of us should escape the misery unless we immigrate? How does not being affected by such social problems become a privileged life? Are you one of those NRIs, who not only wants good things happen to them in the new country but also bad things to happen to those who stayed back in India - so that you can feel double happy about your decision? I hope not - I've seen too many of them in my life.

Being born as a boy + not belonging to a lower/condemned caste + having educated/well to do parents + not in rural India is not something that boy earned by merit. He is lucky and privileged.

I’m afraid you haven’t understood my intentions and it certainly isn’t what you have mentioned. I can assure you of that.

My wish is for Raja and Rani to move to Chennai, Gurgaon or anywhere without preconceived notions and live the life they want. For these two people you can apply your racism/unwelcome concerns to Bangalore as much as you think it is true for Europe. I believe there’s more good people in Bangalore and Europe, or in general in this world.

I’m also aware of my limitations as an individual on how much influence I have to change the evils of society.

Originally Posted by kiku007

Consider the following two people,

• Raja studied in Tamil medium till Year-12 in a rural village that doesn't have internet. His family is poor. He scored top marks and earned his place in a top private engineering college in metropolitan Chennai.

• Rani comes from a similar background, has dark skin (I hate to refer to the skin colour but I have to in this context), can't speak Hindi, but has aced her engineering degree and got placed in a MNC in cosmopolitan Gurgaon. She's never crossed TN border in her life before.

Do you?

• Project your personal insecurities on them, scare them, lower their self-confidence, make them feel like they don't belong in a metropolitan or cosmopolitan setting because of their skin colour or similar antiquated thoughts.

• Make them aware of the challenges, take measures to build their confidence/self-esteem, courage, language skills, and instil the value that the freaking skin colour and family background doesn't determine their worth in the society. As long as they have rightfully earned their place in the society, then they very bloody well should feel they belong wherever they are.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

At least in the NYC metropolitan area the only color that matters is "green"

Isn’t that so true!