[rks]

Originally Posted by khaadu75

Seems you missed the uneven bounce bit ... do you know what one means by uneven bounce ?? .[...]
But your points definitely keep us entertained so keep at it !! And as Suman said ... thank God you not a selector or we would have been in a worse situation .

Amen ....

Yes, uneven bounce is usually a characteristic of pitches in India. Pitches in England/SA generally have true bounce.

You are also keeping me entertained. Let me jog your memory a little bit. Karthik opened for India against SA in SA in both Tests and one-dayers, and as per my recollection, got quick runs in much more difficult conditions for batting than Tendulkar and Ganguly faced in this game. Karthik did the same against England in Tests. In one-dayers in England he did well in a couple of matches. Then he did not do well in one or two games (after he was promoted) and got axed. Oh, well, Karthik is not a Dravid, who has failed 3 consecutive times so far and is "irreplacable".

Regarding Kaif, he has class and technique and should do a good job.

[thefreak]

Just read in TOI the figures for the year for Sachin in the year 2007

Average 46.xx and strike rate 83.4x... still not good is it guys? We want an average of 65 and a strike rate of 130 from the little genius don't we?

[khaadu75]

Originally Posted by rks

Yes, uneven bounce is usually a characteristic of pitches in India. Pitches in England/SA generally have true bounce.

You are also keeping me entertained. Let me jog your memory a little bit. Karthik opened for India against SA in SA in both Tests and one-dayers, and as per my recollection, got quick runs in much more difficult conditions for batting than Tendulkar and Ganguly faced in this game. Karthik did the same against England in Tests. In one-dayers in England he did well in a couple of matches. Then he did not do well in one or two games (after he was promoted) and got axed. Oh, well, Karthik is not a Dravid, who has failed 3 consecutive times so far and is "irreplacable".

Regarding Kaif, he has class and technique and should do a good job.

As far as Kaif goes ... I was one BIg supporter of his specially coz he got that extra zest into the Indian fielding though seeing him field at slips once was probably the funniest cricketing moment for me . But unfortunately he failed to impress inspite of getting numerous chances and if he has sorted out his weaknesses would love to see him back but he's not been fairing too well even in the domestic season so .........

As for Karthik ... No one is taking what he did in SA & Eng away from him and he will come back for sure but then except for that one blinder in the T20 , did you count the amount of catches he missed ( sitters mostly ) whereas Dravid is rock solid in the slips . A player can't be taken in for just one trait and only one trait --- specially for the new generation team .

But the two of them as openers and that too in ODI's against Aus is DISASTER for sure ... don't apply for the selectors job !!

Amen ...........

[khaadu75]

Originally Posted by thefreak

Just read in TOI the figures for the year for Sachin in the year 2007

Average 46.xx and strike rate 83.4x... still not good is it guys? We want an average of 65 and a strike rate of 130 from the little genius don't we?

Trust me ... people would want even more than what you quoted !! The BIGGEST pressure the Indian team plays under comes not from the opponents but from their own supporters who ask for way too much .

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by rks

Yes, uneven bounce is usually a characteristic of pitches in India.

Not from ball 1 and certainly not against the new ball with bowlers nearing 150kmph. Indian pitches have a tendency to spin a lot (and very seldom have such uneven bounce, unlike the "consistent" uneven bounce noticed in yesterdays match) after 30 overs. Not earlier, unless the pitch is bad.

Pitches in England/SA generally have true bounce.

Translates to better batting conditions. As you can anticipate the height of bounce and rely on it for the rest of the match. Unlike the other day.

got quick runs in much more difficult conditions for batting than Tendulkar and Ganguly faced in this game.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is not true. When you have a swinging pitch with variable bounce THESE are the TOUGHEST conditions to play in.

Regarding Kaif, he has class and technique and should do a good job.

Yeah true, he has technique NOT CLASS though. Btw, he just about wastes as many ***** as anyone else in the Indian line-up is know for. Though his forte is picking up singles and nudging the ball into gaps for quick runs rather than dealing with boundaries. Almost but certain that if you need a 6 off the last ball, Kaif is the last one whom you can expect to get you there.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by thefreak

Average 46.xx and strike rate 83.4x... still not good is it guys? We want an average of 65 and a strike rate of 130 from the little genius don't we?

I say because they have 10-15 yrs experience they need to have an avg of 130 and a strike rate of 260. Doesn't it make sense? If Yuvi can score six 6s in a over, fab 3 staying for thrice as long as him should score atleast six 6s THREE times in their career.

I'll tell you what this thread is all about.

1. Pardon the horrendous performances of the youngsters rather than asking them to pull up their socks in tough times. Champions suggestion you know.

2. Axe the fab 3 if they do the same. Even if that means two of them are in the top 10 run scorers in this calender year or one of them has just almost won us a series in Eng.

3. Then somehow stupidly come up with a formula that "When seniors can't do it, why expect juniours to do it". Instead of saying, when seniors fail, juniors should come good. And vice-versa.

4. Then we all have this funda on how the entire basis of Indian cricket should be changed on the results of 1 tournament. That too listening to that Greg Chappell who was fit for nothing.

5. Then you always have, I know how we should play, who should be in the team or not from people who have never held a cricket bat/ball all their lives and played against a stiff opposition or have witnessed what swing, uneven bounce, pressure is all about. I think we must have a cricket match on TBHP and see how many of these people are able (half as much) to do what they type .

6. Then we have all this HYPE surrounding after the win of some T20 cup. What happened to this HYPE when we won a test series in Eng? Or Pakistan?

7. We Indian's sure have a short sighted memory. One win can change everything miraculously. Rather than saying we ought to do well consistently over a period of time & emerge as champions in all forms of the game.

8. Last but not the least they crave saying "We won T20 because there was no pressure". If you know this for a fact, then WHY are you putting so much pressure on them? A thing I am still pondering over.

Originally Posted by khaadu75

The BIGGEST pressure the Indian team plays under comes not from the opponents but from their own supporters who ask for way too much .

Khaadu don't talk senseless. The BIGGEST PRESSURE is having the fab 3 in the team . They throw their weight around, politicize the dressing room. Not to mention that they all play for records. Except Yuvi, who unknowingly wanted/aspired to hit a 6th six and earn himself a record.

I agree fab 3 are useless. Kumble scored a test century, where were Yuvraj, Dhoni, Karthik, Gambhir and the rest of the youngsters & what were they doing? Wearing bangles and saying "When a bowler can score a hundred why should we?".

[rks]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Not from ball 1 and certainly not against the new ball with bowlers nearing 150kmph. Indian pitches have a tendency to spin a lot (and very seldom have such uneven bounce, unlike the "consistent" uneven bounce noticed in yesterdays match) after 30 overs. Not earlier, unless the pitch is bad.


Translates to better batting conditions. As you can anticipate the height of bounce and rely on it for the rest of the match. Unlike the other day.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is not true. When you have a swinging pitch with variable bounce THESE are the TOUGHEST conditions to play in.

In India one ball will bounce through above waist height to the keeper and another will bounce twice to the keeper. But yes, usually not in the very first day of a Test match or in a one-day game, where conditions are usually in favour of batting.

But the saving grace here is that the pitches on the subcontinent are much slower, so that the batsman generally has time to adjust to the uneven bounce.

In pitches in SA or England or Australia, the bounce is true but there is a lot of pace and movement (off the seam and in the air) and Indian batsmen generally struggle. Because Indian batsmen are good off the front foot, but do not cut and hook as well as the Australians or South Africans or the Englishmen.

[mclaren1885]

Let me show you how "transparent" our selection process is.

Dilip Vengsarkar, Chairman of selection committee BCCI formally announces a press statement that seniors should not take their places for granted and performance will be their sole judgment on which they will be included in the playing XI & 15 member squad. Fair enough, that selection to the 15 member squad should be on the basis of performances. But one of his statements read:

Vengsarkar also said the selectors' decision to bring back Sourav Ganguly and Zaheer Khan was vindicated by their performances. "There has to be a good blend of youth and experience in the team. In the Tests, temperament plays a major role," he said. "Though Sourav and Zaheer were not in the best of forms when selected, as selectors, it was important for us to back our gut feeling."

If you read carefully, you get a feeling that Zaheer & Ganguly were brought back in the team because of performances (good ones I am assuming). Then he goes onto say "that there should be a balance between experience & youth" indicating his motives are clear to retain atleast Sachin & Dravid.

Shockingly, he also reveals that Zaheer and Ganguly were chosen INSPITE of their "not in best forms". But because of the "gut feeling" he (selectors) had.

What I would like to know is what was this gut feeling? Gut feeling that youngsters would fail and that Ganguly & Zaheer's services will be needed? Or gut feeling that one has to select players out of form inspite of the fact that one of them "doesn't fit team composition". Or gut feeling that they won't be compromising two places in the 15 member squad with two players who are not in form. There by rendering the motive (entry into team on basis of performance) of the panel useless?

Agreed Ganguly is out of form, agreed he doesn't fit the team composition. But how can this change with each passing game? Either he fits or doesn't. And that stands for the whole tourney & doesn't swing around with every match.

In India one ball will bounce through above waist height to the keeper and another will bounce twice to the keeper.

See, that would depend on the pace with which the bowler bowls the ball. If you bowl slower obviously it will carry at a lesser height to the keeper. If you notice slower ***** go on 1 bounce to the keeper. Its more to do with bowlers pace (which is constantly varying) most of the times unless you have pitches like this.

But the saving grace here is that the pitches on the subcontinent are much slower, so that the batsman generally has time to adjust to the uneven bounce.

Rks, unlike other Indian pitches this pitch had PACE as well, which is why bowling slower made it all the more harder to hit the ball. Bret Lee was constantly getting readings of 150-153 kmph. I think at one point RP Singh was achieving speeds of 147-148 IIRC.

So this pitch has pace, swing, uneven bounce. Deadly combo. Unlike most other Indian pitches. There were quite a few ***** that took off sharply from good length. One even hit Sachin's splice of the bat. So it definitely had pace when the ball was new. Later Bracken, Johnson cleverly realized the ball was coming onto the bat after swing subsided and slowed their pace down. And then Ricky bowled Symonds, Hogg, Hopes (slower bowlers) and kept Bret Lee out because his excessive pace would make it easy for hitting.

[mclaren1885]

A detailed analysis of which batsmen played how against which bowler. The best way to analyze the game. Carefully notice that Sachin seemed to have struggled only against Bret Lee & Yuvraj against James Hopes.

Cricinfo - Player v player - 4th ODI: India v Australia at Chandigarh, Oct 8, 2007

[diabloo]

Good that Lee didn't bowl all his 10 overs to the little fellow. Otherwise we wouldn't have reached even 250

Disclaimer: I am not saying he should resign. I am just commenting on his strike-rate against Brett Lee in yesterday's match. No other strings should be attached to my words

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

A detailed analysis of which batsmen played how against which bowler. The best way to analyze the game. Carefully notice that Sachin seemed to have struggled only against Bret Lee & Yuvraj against James Hopes.

Cricinfo - Player v player - 4th ODI: India v Australia at Chandigarh, Oct 8, 2007

[thefreak]

Pakistan lose quick wickets after a brilliant start. Three down and the big fella walks in...

Sad to see the end of an era. Hats off to the great Inzy!

From Cricinfo "And now the crowd erupt as Inzamam comes to the crease for maybe the last time, might get another knock here.... the South Africans form an column for him to walk on through, taps on the back for the players and from Yousuf, touching gesture that from South Africa" - That is sportsmanship!

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by diabloo

Good that Lee didn't bowl all his 10 overs to the little fellow. Otherwise we wouldn't have reached even 250

Disclaimer: I am not saying he should resign. I am just commenting on his strike-rate against Brett Lee in yesterday's match. No other strings should be attached to my words

NDTV.com: India played well: Ponting

[FONT=Arial]

[FONT=Arial]"Brett was bowling superb and with genuine pace. The wicket was little inconsistent but I think any batsman would have struggled against him today," Ponting said[/FONT]

[/FONT][FONT=Arial]

[FONT=Arial]Ponting said India did well to keep wickets in their hands and rued that his side could not take a 3-0 lead in the series.[/FONT]
"India played well today. They won the toss on a good batting wicket and kept wickets at hand. That's one day cricket, we always knew India would bounce back," Ponting told reporters after the fourth ODIin Chandigarh

ponting, how did you forget dinesh karthik & kaif [/FONT]

[diabloo]

Ponting is like, "Oooops, I lost the toss, lost the match "

Originally Posted by Surprise

NDTV.com: India played well: Ponting

Note: Total turnaround in Ponting's attitude after the loss !!!

[mclaren1885]

Well good news is that tomorrow some of us will get to watch the big bloke Inzi bat. Hopefully, he will sign off in style. And beat Miandad's record as well.

There is another bit of interesting news for all Indian cricket fans. Graeme Smith, Daniel Vettori, Gibbs, Ab De Villeirs, Morkel, Muralidharan, Jayawardena, Jayasurya, Sangakara, Malinga, Zoysa, Dilhara Fernando, Maharoof have all joined IPL. Come April 2008, it will be raining stars on Indian pitches from various countries. With the likes of Shane Warne, Mcgrath, Shoib Akthar on the yet to confirm list.

This bit along with some more talented players in the ICL list are sure going to turn heads with the likes of Brian Lara, Kluesener, Damien Martyn, Inzi, Abdul Razzaq etc.

Best part is, that we will see a new generation of youth come out with flying colours with the experience they gain from these world class players from SL, NZ, Aus, SA, Pak, WI etc.

Hats off to ICL for bringing about a change. And BCCI for copying it .

[thefreak]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Best part is, that we will see a new generation of youth come out with flying colours with the experience they gain from these world class players from SL, NZ, Aus, SA, Pak, WI etc.

If that happens. Chances are that the BCCI will not condone to players joining the other league and the talented ones in ICL will never get to play for Team India. To heck with exposure et al for BCCI. It is about power/money/politics and monopoly.