[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

There is a lesson there for every famous cricketer, of how easily all may be lost in the modern era. With high rewards comes high visibility and with that, come severe consequences for misbehaviour.

we already had some such examples here. Azhar for one?
I remember as kids we used to try to emulate that limped walk and our tshirt collars would be tuned up always. We got so used to the collar thing, that we had to later make conscious attempts to fold the collars.

It is not only what you make from the game, but what imprint you leave on it and its followers. This I feel is the core thing lacking from the Australian greats. Apart from sledging/ mental disintegration and generally acting as louts/ thugs/ boors what can kids pick from their behaviour? I understand they were insanely talented and worked really hard but what remains is these sights and memories.

As someone said about Steve Smith; this one transgression (or some others earlier that were not caught) will define his legacy more than being known as the most prolific batsman after Bradman.

[Sawyer]

Azhar is a story by itself. For one thing, no one really knows what happened, it was hushed up, he still says he is not guilty and is living the high life adopted by a political party.

Not quite an example of " crime doesn't pay", is he?

And he had never reached the heights as Smith had, as an Ashes winning captain that was approaching Bradman in batting stats. Smith is at the level of Tendulkar back in the day, or Kohli today.

More interesting possibilities in the current scandal:

"The Australian cricket team is in danger of imploding over the cheating scandal that has rocked the sport following claims that the bowlers were ‘in’ on the plan to tamper with the ball in the third Test against South Africa at Cape Town.
A highly-placed source has told Wide World of Sports the bowlers were aware of the plan to use sticky tape on the ball to gain an edge over the Proteas, despite reports that spearheads Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood knew nothing about it and are fuming over being linked to the scandal.
“They knew about it - don’t worry about that,” the source says."

[nilanjanray]

Australians (media and public) trying to burn Smith et al at the stake are a bunch of head-in-the sand hypocrites. They only reacted so strongly because there was no room for any denial, and because the world was laughing at them. Because national identity and the 'play hard but fair' spin got hammered.

I know I painted Australians with a broad brush. But see this old article about Kohli after #drsgate. The below the line comments are more illuminating. And now same folks are pretending to be (or maybe are) outraged. Height of denial.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...a9795e7a7d77e7

[Sawyer]

What is written about Kohli's antics - and I am not referring to his press conference accusation about which I still maintain that it was something that both Boards should have pursued to a conclusion instead of letting it slide as they did - shows that that Ugly v Ugly only establishes a race to the bottom. As to comments by fans below the line, there are equally ugly ones by fans of all countries everywhere; just as there are on every news item these days. They don't prove anything about a nation except perhaps that patriotism is often the last refuge of scoundrels everywhere in the world. And that writing a comment on the net is a way to release steam built up due to many reasons.

I was happy to see the moderately talented Steve Waugh silent - but he could not resist jumping in either, with the advice to stick to the spirit of cricket. That takes breathtaking shamelessness, saying something like that by arguably the author of the present version of the ugly Australian cricketer, when faced with a situation where cricketing talent isn't enough to win.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

What is written about Kohli's antics - and I am not referring to his press conference accusation about which I still maintain that it was something that both Boards should have pursued to a conclusion instead of letting it slide as they did - shows that that Ugly v Ugly only establishes a race to the bottom. As to comments by fans below the line, there are equally ugly ones by fans of all countries everywhere; just as there are on every news item these days. They don't prove anything about a nation except perhaps that patriotism is often the last refuge of scoundrels everywhere in the world. And that writing a comment on the net is a way to release steam built up due to many reasons.

I was happy to see the moderately talented Steve Waugh silent - but he could not resist jumping in either, with the advice to stick to the spirit of cricket. That takes breathtaking shamelessness, saying something like that by arguably the author of the present version of the ugly Australian cricketer, when faced with a situation where cricketing talent isn't enough to win.

I disagree. One has to fight fire with fire. Don't start it in the first place, but then, do what it takes to fight it.

Even last week there was some weird article on Cricinfo. Talking about how 'gentler' nations such as India were getting influenced by Aussies. Really? Gentler? We are always supposed to offer the other cheek, or let performance speak for itself? While getting abused??

Yobs/yobbos who try to get some advantage in any and every way, need to be confronted. OT, but it is like strong and ruthless men guarding our borders so that the vicious terrorists don't come in and create mayhem.

Happy to see the Anglosphere clique (journalists, players) having to suck it up and not do what they did for many decades. Even in the 2000s, Eng, Aus and NZ ganged up re Sachin vs Mike Denness. And we still remember Monkeygate. The thing is, some brilliant writers use words very effectively to put down India. And some don't get it, because they focus on style vs substance. While some sheep lap it up, and blame their own countrymen. Even Economist and BBC do it, beyond cricket. OT, but more of a Brit/commonwealth thing, perhaps driven by some jealousy. I don't see US publications doing this. They are not so subtle in the first place :-) And have no need for well worded put downs.

Given my marketing (which includes PR) background, it is saddening to see that some folks don't get the planning and intent behind many 'innocuous' articles. E.g. a PR project. X articles across Y publications. Theme needs to be Z. Twist/selectively highlight facts that support one's pov. Research and figure out who will write such articles (for money, or other benefits, of course). E.g. during the Doklam standoff there were many Indians writing on SCMP, subtly favouring China's pov. The same old stuff. During MRCA, the Indian fighter competition, the bias (favouring certain interest groups) went from being covert to overt.

Not aimed at you, but this rant is aimed at thosefolks who still hold Economist, Guardian, Telegraph etc. in higher esteem than our own newspapers. Re cricket or national interests. How many realise that journalists have feet of clay, that they move around in the same circles, and often get 'paid' to write something? And many good ones study in the same elite foreign institutes, with associated biases?

Yes. I am enjoying the schadenfreude. But I don't want a permanent ban. One year should be enough. And no IPL or Big Bash meanwhile. Shut them out for one year.

[Sawyer]

I disagree with your approach completely. The usual way to fight fire is with water.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

I disagree with your approach completely. The usual way to fight fire is with water.

Not when it is a forest fire :-)

[Sawyer]

The Aussies continue to provide world class entertainment for the rest of the cricketing world.

Warner let it be leaked that the bowlers were in on the plan, and the entire team knew about it.

The bowlers are now furious at Warner for this attempt to pull them under the bus as well, and have refused to play with Warner ever again in the future.

Warner has terminated his membership of the teams What app group.

If the whole team did know about what was happening, based on the view of the Australian Sport Commission, none should play the last test - to start on Friday.

This has become an epic opera and cricket history in the making.

There is also a view that the axeman, Sutherland, will soon face the axe himself.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Azhar is a story by itself. For one thing, no one really knows what happened, it was hushed up, he still says he is not guilty and is living the high life adopted by a political party.

And he had never reached the heights as Smith had, as an Ashes winning captain that was approaching Bradman in batting stats. Smith is at the level of Tendulkar back in the day, or Kohli today.

Not saying Azhar is in the same league as an acheiver. But in terms of sheer fan following he did hold his own.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

More interesting possibilities in the current scandal:

"The Australian cricket team is in danger of imploding over the cheating scandal that has rocked the sport following claims that the bowlers were ‘in’ on the plan to tamper with the ball in the third Test against South Africa at Cape Town.
A highly-placed source has told Wide World of Sports the bowlers were aware of the plan to use sticky tape on the ball to gain an edge over the Proteas, despite reports that spearheads Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood knew nothing about it and are fuming over being linked to the scandal.
“They knew about it - don’t worry about that,” the source says."

Where are you reading this? Any links would be helpful. This calls for some popcorn. It almost seems like warner saying if Smith can drag me in, I will drag in a few more.
It could all end up in a boring team when India go there end 2018. I would want India to play well and beat their best possible team, not a weakened one. Or even worse lose to them

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Where are you reading this? Any links would be helpful. This calls for some popcorn. It almost seems like warner saying if Smith can drag me in, I will drag in a few more.
It could all end up in a boring team when India go there end 2018. I would want India to play well and beat their best possible team, not a weakened one. Or even worse lose to them

Lol. Make sure you have lots of popcorn!

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket

Also, the UK Guardian is covering this, Live!

Of Australia in end 2018, I think that we have a great chance to play some entertaining cricket there and also play a large part in showing how a better brand of cricket can be played - if someone can get this thought into the Kohli head. Australia in Australia will always be a handful; I remember we lost to a side led by an aging Simpson pulled out of ten years of retirement, when most of the usuals had defected to Packer.

PS: for the Warner planted story implicating the whole team, see: https://wwos.nine.com.au/2018/03/27/...-plot-the-mole

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Lol. Make sure you have lots of popcorn!

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket

Also, the UK Guardian is covering this, Live!

Of Australia in end 2018, I think that we have a great chance to play some entertaining cricket there and also play a large part in showing how a better brand of cricket can be played - if someone can get this thought into the Kohli head. Australia in Australia will always be a handful; I remember we lost to a side led by an aging Simpson pulled out of ten years of retirement, when most of the usuals had defected to Packer.

I wonder if Warner is the most convenient scapegoat. E.g. it is like one does an analysis of social posts and news articles, says that Warner has the highest 'dislike' index/rating, so lets spin things in such a way so that he gets the maximum blame. Who knows what's the truth?

Lehman and Smith (and some bowlers) are babes in the wood, who knowingly or unknowingly went along? Difficult to believe. What about that DRS thing? Who were sitting in the dressing room?

[Sawyer]

I remain optimistic that a lot of good for the game may come out of this, as all international captains, players, coaches and boards see what is unfolding and learn lessons very cheaply from this instead of merely enjoying the show.

The nonsense that cricket can be played best and hard only if there is some needle can be addressed if there is a will everywhere to do so. Tennis players like Federer and Nadal slug it out like boxers in the ring, without resorting to this nonsense, as do golfers. Even in cricket, NZ has shown what is possible; even using short pitched bowling to bounce out batsmen, without the associated lip service and assorted nasties. And at the end of the day, it just a game and not warfare by proxy.

This can be a defining moment globally for the game, if everyone involved has the wisdom to see that in this affair.

[Sawyer]

On hypocrisy:

"The Australian (and world) cricketing public has been treated to years - decades - of ‘mental disintegration’ theory, ‘hard but fair’ mythos, players being found to have contact with bookies on the subcontinent, etc etc, but now the very players who carried on this way are shocked and disturbed by this development. Perhaps they are more shocked than anything by the fact that Smith admitted his mistake – surely this is the really exceptional part of the whole affair, that he owned up to it rather than attempt the usual machismo-fuelled self-justifications that we hear year in, year out.”

Prominent of these scoundrels being Waugh and Warne. Even Border and Clarke. All that remains now is for Ponting to pontificate.

And the fans want Smith's head because he has left them with no place to hide after his admission on TV.

The other hypocrisy that takes the cake is Warner talking about not breaking the rules when scolding du Plessis last year.

"Karma is a bitch. And she bites hard."

[suresh_gs]

The Aussies behave like bullies wherever they go. Monkeygate scandal, Under arm bowling against NZ, Lillee-Miandad fight, Sarwan-McGrath fight are some of the incidents that I can recollect. Sometimes I feel Kohli's approach towards the Aussies is very much apt.

[srishiva]

I agree that this has become huge compared to other past incidents because they accepted it. Previous incidents always had that feeling of not proven 100% guilt and maybe (for whoever supports them) it was accidental.
In this case, its 100% clear that they did it and the fact that they are Australians ( )and everyone is out to get them. After all they were trying to formalize or legitimize their "mental disintegration" with various antics.