[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by noopster

........it is not just Salman but every drunk driver who is up on trial. This is definitely a bad precedent.

That's the crux of the matter (not the accused in this ONE case), but it somehow fails to register with most people. The authorities pretend to crack down heavily on drunk driving, then fail so spectacularly in prosecuting probably the most high-profile drunk driving case in our courts today.

I don't care for the accused here, he's of no consequence to me either way, but what does common Joe Public take away from this? That's what the courts need to address when they get their heads out of their arse and their hands out of their pots of gold.

I'm affected by this judgment (so is everyone else on our roads), because more idiots with piles of cash to spare will drive on the streets, out of their alcohol-fueled senses, because they've now seen MORE evidence that they can get away with it.

P.S. I don't know the whole story about the constable so can't make an informed comment, but it's not rocket science to surmise what probably happened (or rather was done) to him. Where's the justice for him? What precedent is the system setting for witnesses in high-profile cases, or any case for that matter?

[saket77]

I think I should post this in the official joke thread.

There is an editorial on ToI discussing that if SK got a harsh punishment because of his fame? That he paid the price of his fame! What a joke!

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes...price-of-fame/

[PPS]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

I was debating with my parents regarding the same last night and they seemed to have complete FAITH in the Indian judiciary for some reason

I feel he will eventually go to jail, seems like a terrible case on merits & now that the Kamaal Khan angle has been raked up it will only get more complicated!
Only the sentence has been suspended not the conviction, the Sessions Court Judgment still stands as of today till the High Court doesn't hear the case on merits.

[blacksport]

Somebody claimed this on another forum:

... what all Salman Khan has done for our country?Do they know that out of all his earnings Salman Khan donates 70-90% to the charity?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated Rs. 10 crore toheart patients?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated Rs. 20 crore for cancer patients?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated Rs. 50 lakh forJ&K flood victims and also for the Uttarakhand floods?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated his bone marrow to save a girl’s life?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated money for Yuvraj Singh's treatment? Do they know that Salman Khan had donated about 300 lenses to the visually impaired and crutches to the disabled?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated Rs. 25 lakh to AMU's Medical College?Do they know that Salman Khan had donated 100,000 bricks to a Sikh temple?Do they know that Salman Khan's foundation "Being Human" is a registered charitable trust working in the areas of education and healthcare for the underprivilegedpeopl e?...And the list goes on!

I dunno how far they are true, but I was able to find references to the bone marrow donation, yuvraj singh treatment and the 100,000 bricks thing.

Before anybody comes out to thrash me, here is my disclaimer: I am not advocating that he should be let off or his sentence reduced because he donated to charity. Just saying that perhaps he is not really the kind of villain that people are suddenly trying to make him look like.

But then I am happy he got bail. When an appeal is admitted, it is a common practice to grant bail. Nothing to do with him being rich and famous.

[methecupid]

and such a farce isn't happening for the first time. Roll back a few years, and the High Court had reduced the jail sentence of Nanda in a similar case. Its ironical, reading the posts in the following T-Bhp thread; and finding a eerily similar conversation to what we are having right now.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...m-reduced.html



One of the many things I boast about Mumbai with my friends from other cities is the Party Hard Driver/ PPD. I, obviously, make sure I call for a driver who can drop me home after a night of celebration/ destitute (whichever applicable). But honestly speaking, I wouldn't have thought I would be doing that, if there wasn't a crackdown by Mumbai Police on such cases over the past few years. Not for once, does a person in high-spirits, think he/ she is too drunk to drive. Hence, telling that DUI and a resulting mishap is a crime, is probably not right. Its an extremely unfortunate incident and has got its fair share of publicity because of the person concerned. (he's not 'being a human', and I am not going to take his name!)

But in the larger scheme of things, does the High Court think it through even once before providing a lee-way like this. The case in point, if today I go out in drunken revelry, and smash into someone else's property in the dead of the night, can I just cross-reference my plea of innocence to this case. We all know how lawyers are allowed to cross-reference cases during a trial.

The court has set a very bad example today and I cannot even start to explain how agitated we should be. We work through the entire day, pay our taxes (yet pay tolls) and then we pay for drivers to keep us and everyone else on the road safe. How does this feel for a law-abiding citizen? It's easy for all of us to get drifted in the emotions we are feeling at this time, but just as ordinary citizens, we can do the following;

a. keep our speeds under legal limits, and drive responsibly.
b. let others drive us if we are not in a state to.
c. and file some sort of the public notice (like the one for net-neutrality) and give it to the oh-so-not-honorable High Court for answers. We are a very reputable and respected forum in the automotive world. Will it not hold a significant push for the larger cause?

[VW2010]

There goes. He escapes again. its a shame we live in a country governed by laws that has only loop holes.

I wish there is justice to all this and even if that means Salman vanishes out of thin air by the wrath of a superpower.


He deserves to be in Jail for all his offences. The law can only punish the weak and poor. Law cannot touch people with money.

[Kumar R]

Originally Posted by Horn-OK-Pls

binand... That's my POV. We all know that a "hit" does happen. A scratch here, a bump there... and also a hard bump sometimes that causes a major damage either to self or to others. Reasons & factors are many.

My point is that a 'hit' happens due to many foreseen and unforeseen. Not getting into reasons here buddy. We all have been through it.

Salman Khan is a case of DUI and hit. The reasons are not unforeseeable at all - I do not know anyone who cannot forsee or is aware of the dangers of driving after drinking. Quite different from someone who hits a pedestrian while driving (sober) due to an unforeseeable act (such as say a wheel burst or a miscalculation of divider breadth). This is not a mistake of judgment or an act of god.

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Yes, he did commit the offense and the law should be strictly adheared to, but why should it not take into account the good work he has done? It would have been better to see the courts act in a manner which closes the issue - something like a reduced sentence, a suspended sentece, community service and compensation to the victims.

The judge has already taken that into account while delivering the sentence (5 years in a case where upto 10 could have been awarded). Personally I feel that if he had pleaded guilty immediately he would have gotten away with not more than a 2 year sentence, perhaps less (in 2003 before Nanda's case / Alistair Perreira's case and the general toughening of attitude towards DUI). With parole he would have likely served barely a year.

The 'good work' done by SK is also something which unfortunately too many people are emphasizing as a ground for acquittal. That can never ever be a factor and if allowed can introduce a dangerous bias in criminal cases.

A great precedent is the Rajat Gupta trial in New York where his lawyers produced letters from past presidents, Fortune 500 CEOs and even former U.N. Secretary Generals testifying that he was a 'good' man, noted philantropist, had contributed to society, etc. etc. None of that had any effect on the conviction (except in a relatively lenient sentence) and repeated pleas by him have been finally dismissed by the U.S. Supreme Court quite recently. And this is notwithstanding Rajat Gupta's philanthropic activities and list of accomplishments - besides which Salman Khan's stardom and Being Human pales in comparison. This should be mandatory reading for SK's fans and friends.

Originally Posted by pratyush6

With such a sentence now, you are not helping the victims. Has anyone even asked what the victims really want? No we just want him locked up - after all how can a star get away with something like this?

Criminal law, especially serious offences is not focused on helping victims. The primary objective is sanction, deterrence and reformation (usually in that order). While compensation to victims is something that can and should be developed (it is already something that is gaining ground - but is usually pursued in a seperate civil suit (like Uphaar)), it cannot gain primacy because that would simply make the law favourable for wealthier offenders.

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Punishment needs to be meted out so as to change and reform not teach him a lesson and make him pay for his stardom.

This is very much a part of the law and there are incentives to Salman (should he serve his sentence) that will reduce the term. Parole, furlough, suspension of sentence, etc.

Originally Posted by pratyush6

But if you had locked him up for any length of time at the time of the accident, you would have jailed a man who had committed a crime, now you are just jailing someone who is completely different.

I disagree with this. The greater part of the delay is due to the legal strategies of the accused and he certainly cannot be entitled to benefit from that.

You may be interested to know that in cases where delay in trial / sentencing is not due to the accused / convict's fault, courts quite routinely reduce sentences, permit parole, sometimes even commute remainder of sentence (such as D. S . Bhullar in 2014)

Originally Posted by noopster

what is the rationale behind defence repeatedly raising the point of Kamaal Khan not being produced as a witness? Isn't it the prosecution's prerogative whom to produce as their witness? What stopped the defence from producing Kamaal Khan as their own witness?

Any person can be called as a witness by either side subject to the right of the opposite side to cross examine him (or her) for inconsistencies. As per the Salman Khan judgment Kamal Khan's statement was recorded few days after the offence. Thereafter neither prosecution nor defence cared to examine him. Knowing the way defence strategies work, I'm certain SK's lawyers would have called Kamal Khan years ago as a defence witness if he had anything to say that could have weakened the charges. That they did not do so is more telling that he had nothing to offer. Bottom line is that the defence were under no restriction to summon KK so raising this bogey now is foolish.

Originally Posted by VW2010

There goes. He escapes again. its a shame we live in a country governed by laws that has only loop holes.

I don't find anything objectionable in his bail after the appeal has been admitted. Generally bail is a right when a case is in trial or under appeal -- unless there are valid fears that the accused will abscond, can personally influence witnesses or destroy evidence. It seems quite unlikely that Salman will abscond and there is nothing he can do personally to affect the evidence / witnesses that he cannot do while in jail. Under the circumstances granting bail is quite ok IMO. What is surprising is how his lawyers managed to get his appeal-cum-bail listed for hearing on a very busy day in Bombay HC - that is probably where having means and access to good lawyers or being famous makes a difference.

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

The authorities pretend to crack down heavily on drunk driving, then fail so spectacularly in prosecuting probably the most high-profile drunk driving case in our courts today.

I don't care for the accused here, he's of no consequence to me either way, but what does common Joe Public take away from this? That's what the courts need to address when they get their heads out of their arse and their hands out of their pots of gold.

I'm affected by this judgment (so is everyone else on our roads), because more idiots with piles of cash to spare will drive on the streets, out of their alcohol-fueled senses, because they've now seen MORE evidence that they can get away with it.

Originally Posted by methecupid

and such a farce isn't happening for the first time. Roll back a few years, and the High Court had reduced the jail sentence of Nanda in a similar case. Its ironical, reading the posts in the following T-Bhp thread; and finding a eerily similar conversation to what we are having right now.

My perception is that the attitude towards DUI has hardened considerably on the last six years - living in Bombay between 2005 and 2014 I have palpably felt and seen stricter enforcement. The Nanda BMW and Alistair Perreira cases (both 2012) did much to wake up the police and the lower courts to the seriousness of such acts. Maybe unknowingly SK's lawyers made it worse for him by setting out on a path to delay the trial by their numerous legal challenges to the jurisdiction of the magistrate, etc. A read of this judgment will reveal how heavily it is influenced by the decision in the Alistair Perriera case.

I have attached a pdf of the Salman Khan judgment which now seems to be available freely on the internet. It is 240 pages long.

SK Order.pdf

[GrammarNazi]

Slowly as the news sinks in, seems something very wrong has happened today.

Deeply saddened, abit shocked. Gobsmacked.

Courts breached a threshold today.

Abit heartbroken. Our judiciary seems beyond redemption.

Dunno how you'll are managing to type so much.

[carwatcher]

Circulating on WhatsApp...
"Had Salman not been granted bail quickly, the blind trust we all have on money power would have vanished today."

Sums it all up.

[drsingh]

Originally Posted by mayankk

By the way, just shut down the lower courts. Why do you have them, eating my tax.
Everything has to go to SC only, what.

The lower court system is a source of employment /income to a large number of people. Photocopies, photography, parking, stationary, clerks, paralegals, lawyers, etc... Etc...


There would be riots if the status quo was disturbed.

As I mentioned elsewhere, recently there were protests /strike by district Court lawyers in my area because High court wanted to shift civil property cases to the revenue department to lessen the load on the courts.

[vb-saan]

Quite an expected outcome. His team did the job diligently and made sure that bhai is safe and continue to promote being human. Now all we can expect is probably a ban on the Toyota Land Cruiser.

[blue_pulsar]

I'm deeply saddened. All folks in this thread who were against me, please take note of what has happened.

Originally Posted by blacksport

Somebody claimed this on another forum:

Will all due respect to your post, I feel that all the above were being 'staged' for this day of (in)justice. Again, nothing against you or whatever you've posted.

Originally Posted by rr_zen

I got the below message yesterday through WhatsApp on Ravindra Patil. Not sure of the source and authenticity though.

Such a heart wrenching story.

Instead of passing harsher judgements on DUI, the law has let go of him. We're concerned about other crimes committed in this country like rape, corruption, etc. Am shocked to see nobody pushing for stricter laws again DUI. Accoring to me, the punishment for DUI+killing must be made equal to a murder. Oh, but even then, such people are above the law. I forgot about that. Sigh..!

[Anghammarad]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

That's not the end of the story, infact that is the begining of the whole sordid drama. The actual story was he was dead drunk, couldn't stand up properly, then he drove his SUV at what ever high speed he could manage, on narrow bylanes of a conjested suburb, then lost control, and his SUV actually clambered up 3 stairs to end up on the chest of a poor bakery worker, who were sleeping 25 feet away from the road. Then he got out of the car, saw the horror he had committed, saw the car perched on the prone body of one worker and other injured lying around, decided to run away and hide at home. Then he waited a full 8 hours to ensure his alcohol content was minimal and went to the police station to show that his driver had committed the crime and he was merely a passenger.
For the next 13 years he maintained the same lie in every court session, at the same time pretending to help the aged and poor, may be to salvage what ever little conscience he has, as if his helping someone else makes the entire hitting, running away without helping crime wash away. Pathetic human being pretending to being human, I guess he got what he deserved, may be a little too late and a little too less, but nevertheless!!

I don't think he's getting what he deserved. He doesn't deserve adulation, he LIED in court, on the stand, to everyone in this country. Surely perjury stands for something? Surely there must be some remorse somewhere? Or isn't there?
There are people aghast that he has been found guilty, there are people defending him saying "OMg what great humanitarian things he has done", there are people saying dogs live on the street, not people.
One does not take away from the other.
A civilized people follow rules and law and order.
I do not see how we can call ourselves a country of law and order, when there is quite obviously one set of rules that exist for the ultra rich and powerful, and one for the common man, and no rules whatsoever for the people who fall and live and disappear within the cracks of our so called justice system.

If this was any one of us in his place, we would not be getting the treatment or consideration he is. And while he has done admirable things from a humanitarian perspective, many million times more than I personally have, I do not think that this makes him above the law.

Or perhaps we should just simply quit the farce of equality under law, and say that some people are more equal than others out in the open.
And to those who might believe the police are giving him special treatment because they want to, I don't believe that's true.
I believe most of the police officers who serve this country start out wanting to do the right thing, but have to cave in to bureaucracy and pressure in order to be able to survive in the workplace.

Most of all I feel sorry for those who were injured via his accident as well as for the police constable who died ignored and alone. Another victim of our system.
We should all be ashamed, we have collectively failed in providing the kind of utopia that our parents and grandparents fought for when we got our Independence.

Sorry for the ranting nature of the post, just livid and sad and frustrated and so many other things.

Ang.

Edit: Perhaps I should just go back to reading the serenity prayer.

[carwatcher]

I have something to share which can pacify few people including myself.
Here in Goa almost daily few pedestrians, 2-wheeler riders, etc are 'killed' day after day and almost 50% are due to rash and negligent driving. Believe me the police goes all out to support the car drivers and 90-99% are "arrested and released on bail immediately." So the car drivers are always benefitted by law which was framed by Britishers to suit themselves as only they owned the cars.
As regards as High and Mighty people are involved, when the killers of Sunanda Pushkar who had personal net worth of more than 100-150 crores (or more), are roaming scot free and she was murdered just like that, whats the worth of you and me leave alone a person sleeping on a footpath.
I would like to ask that would we still condemn the politicians alone while each and every person worth his salt is equally corrupt.
The way Bollywood is reacting speaks a lot about the lack of education amongst film fraternity or their disconnect with realities of life.

[Pandher]

The Indian Judicial system is a joke, we have numerous cases going on for many years without any substantial result in sight. It is so wrong on so many levels, i dont want to talk about it at all. Feels so good ill be out of this country very soon, for good