[avishar]

Originally Posted by mobike008

You just had a smile on your face? Iam jumping around in glee

Ok,seriously were any of you commenting in that article? Ha ha.One of them sounded exactly like ebonho.

Nice informative article,especially the rear swingarm geometry.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by avishar

Ok,seriously were any of you commenting in that article? Ha ha.One of them sounded exactly like ebonho.

Nice informative article,especially the rear swingarm geometry.

I hear my name being taken in vain. What have I done now? Can you post the link or quote the part that sounds like me?!!

Calling the 883's 49 bhp "pathetic" was a little strong though.

I would have said sub-optimal. Or mildly disappointing.

Or not pulse quickening enough.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by avishar

Ok,seriously were any of you commenting in that article? Ha ha.One of them sounded exactly like ebonho.

That article is highly technical and I need to sit down with book for dummies to understand the technical jargon..LOL

After reading between their lines, I could understand that Bonnie handles like a charm

Originally Posted by ebonho

I hear my name being taken in vain. What have I done now?

Your the poster boy of the biking section on the forum so iam sure your influence and style of writing goes far and wide

Originally Posted by ebonho

Can you post the link or quote the part that sounds like me?!!

Yes please Avishar. Iam dying out of curiosity. Please quote the comments here, should be fun to compare with ebhono's comments

Originally Posted by ebonho

Calling the 883's 49 bhp "pathetic" was a little strong though.

Iam hearing this for first time. I always thought Iron 883 was atleast 54bhp but, if its really 49bhp then I must confess that Iam quite suprised and indeed emphasize my thoughs on my initial test ride as to why i felt Bonnie comparatively so powerful

Originally Posted by ebonho

Or not pulse quickening enough.

[Prozac]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Wonderful to know the Bangalore dealership has already fitted the Arrow Exhausts to the T/R bike.
==================
How come its so less? Do you have a break-up? Here its 7.10 Lakhs On-Road

Arrow exhaust on the Bonneville - well, let me rephrase, its loud enough to wake up the neighborhood, a little too much of an advertisement of your presence in traffic too. It sure sounds nice, perhaps I would've appreciated it a lot more in my 20s.

Permanent ear to ear smile on my face - I called them up today asking for that longer ride and they turned me down saying they are too busy with deliveries!

Delivery times: they say 45-60 days.

Cost break-up:
Ex showroom, BLR: 5,79,080
Road tax and registration: 92,133
Insurance: 12,574
The total stacks up to 6,83,787

Again, am very tempted to go over there and hand them a check!

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Calling the 883's 49 bhp "pathetic" was a little strong though.

Originally Posted by mobike008

I always thought Iron 883 was atleast 54bhp but,

Correction ! (sorry if i sound like good old Rafiki out of Lion King)

883 actually puts out 52 HP / 39 kW @ 5750 rpm

Facts should always be facts

Best Regards & Ride Safe

Ram

[AC_genius]

My 2 cents to this literal power struggle It is a matter of fact that measured BHP figures and torque are specific to the engine tune governed by intake, ECU mapping and exhaust setup. Other variables like actual wheel used during measurement, fuel, altitude, ambient temperature etc. cause changes to the available power.

Additionally, manufacturers quote different measurements - at crank and at the wheel with the latter being obviously less due to transmission losses. The official Harley dyno output at the wheel from a screamin' eagle pdf is presented here for reference.




Irrespective of the number of horses hiding in your cylinders, the real fun is in how they make you feel. As it is there aren't enough roads and guts to sustain the full blast from any of these glorious machines.

[jijs]

I'd love to see some thing from RE on the CafeRacer platform that looks similar to the Bonneville...

A much practical everyday use bike...

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by AC_genius

Additionally, manufacturers quote different measurements - at crank and at the wheel with the latter being obviously less due to transmission losses. The official Harley dyno output at the wheel from a screamin' eagle pdf is presented here for reference.

Thanks for posting that chart. Is that by Harley?

883 torque figures seem flat through the RPM range and maximum HP output seems to be around 45bhp ( assuming its at the wheel), so seems lower than earlier quoted figure of 52bhp which possibly could be at the crank

Originally Posted by AC_genius

Irrespective of the number of horses hiding in your cylinders, the real fun is in how they make you feel. As it is there aren't enough roads and guts to sustain the full blast from any of these glorious machines.

+1. Totally agree, How you feel on the bike is of paramount importance but, performance figures tell the story clearly about how the bike will/should be performing and if it doesnt then disappointment seeps in

When I test rode back-to-back the Iron 883 vs. Bonneville.

For me personally, Bonneville was a clear winner as its performance was completely in a different league

[ebonho]

Thanks for the chart AC.

The 883 peaks at around 5-5.5K rpm, the Bullet at 5.1. The Harley produces 5.8 bhp for every 100 cc it displaces, the Bullet 5.4. I wonder why people do not get the glaring similarities.

There is no limit to modifying a machine for better performance. Or the amount of money you can pump into it. But experience has taught most of us that the machines come to us stock in a certain format for a reason.

Multimillion dollar R&D departments of companies manufacturing thousands of highly educated engineers are not fools or in any way inferior to what a road side shop or a big name tuner can do. But their priorities are different. They have to find and offer a package that is the best balance of performance, reliability, life, and efficiency.

Deviate from (or compromise on) any one or a combination of the above, and you can pump up the other. But in most instances you would be hard pushed to better or even equal what the company came up with in the first place.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The 883 peaks at around 5-5.5K rpm, the Bullet at 5.1. The Harley produces 5.8 bhp for every 100 cc it displaces, the Bullet 5.4. I wonder why people do not get the glaring similarities.

Well, Iam curious to know how did you arrive at those figures ( trying to learn the technical side of things ) was it a simple cc/bhp?

Also, would you be knowing the BHP figure of Iron 883 mentioned in the chart is at crank or wheel?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Well, Iam curious to know how did you arrive at those figures ( trying to learn the technical side of things ) was it a simple cc/bhp?

Also, would you be knowing the BHP figure of Iron 883 mentioned in the chart is at crank or wheel?

Yup simple BHP/100 cc. And the rpm's at which each bike makes eak power.

The chart mentions "corrected" rear wheel torque and power. Which means they got values at crank and applied a pre-determined factor to adjust for transmission losses. Therefore it does not take into consideration the actual machine being dynoed in terms of actual power and torque at rear wheel. Simply an extrapolation based on a formula (no idea how the adjusting factor was arrived at in this instance).

[argchoff]

Took a test ride of the superlow, iron, street bob and fatboy. Booked the iron falling for the looks, even after realising the suspension was spine jarring. Asked if i could change to superlow which was far more forgiving to the back, got told by the dealer that the superlow bookings have stopped and the model is being discontinued. Regretfully Cancelled the booking after another test ride of the iron to confirm my fears of its harsh suspension. Was Thinking about going for the streetbob until reading this comparo of the Bonnie and sportster. Will definitely try out the Bonnie before deciding. It seems senseless to me though why HD is discontinuing the superlow. It rides much better than the iron and a small suspension upgrade (to overcome the GC problem) makes it a much better VFM than the iron IMO.

[AC_genius]

Originally Posted by mobike008

+1. Totally agree, How you feel on the bike is of paramount importance but, performance figures tell the story clearly about how the bike will/should be performing and if it doesnt then disappointment seeps in

When I test rode back-to-back the Iron 883 vs. Bonneville.

For me personally, Bonneville was a clear winner as its performance was completely in a different league

I second your take on the Bonneville's comparative performance I found an interestarting article that compares 3 urban cruisers and shows BHP and Toque figures measured in a consistent set-up.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/10/162...onneville.aspx

Beyond the facts, personally I am tempted to add a comment driven by my equivalence on the cruiser vs sportsbike dimension that practically these rides are more about the image and feel rather than outright performance. So while numbers make for good talking points, this is not the soul of our dream machines. Disclaimer - Love makes you qualitative instead of quantitative!!

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by argchoff

Was Thinking about going for the streetbob until reading this comparo of the Bonnie and sportster. Will definitely try out the Bonnie before deciding.

Well, you seem to have driven the entire range of HD. Great job !!

However, if you have the budget for a Street Bob, then you should also check out the TB Storm and buy between both of them.

Bonnie would not fall in that full cruiser category as its more of a retroclassicsportsbike

Originally Posted by AC_genius

this is not the soul of our dream machines. Disclaimer - Love makes you qualitative instead of quantitative!!

Absolutely. When we ride/drive a machine, its about the happiness that we feel on them and not performance figures nor how we look on them

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by AC_genius

My 2 cents to this literal power struggle It is a matter of fact that measured BHP figures and torque are specific to the engine tune governed by intake, ECU mapping and exhaust setup. Other variables like actual wheel used during measurement, fuel, altitude, ambient temperature etc. cause changes to the available power.

Additionally, manufacturers quote different measurements - at crank and at the wheel with the latter being obviously less due to transmission losses. The official Harley dyno output at the wheel from a screamin' eagle pdf is presented here for reference.


Attachment 1215651

Irrespective of the number of horses hiding in your cylinders, the real fun is in how they make you feel. As it is there aren't enough roads and guts to sustain the full blast from any of these glorious machines.

Those are crank numbers not rear wheel , a dyno always measures crank numbers as per rear wheel. Since there is no way(unless one strips the engine from the transmission) one can measure the figures directly from the crank , it is measured at rear wheel with adjusment for losses hence the graph highlighting -"corrected rear wheel". 40 pound of torque wont get a 280kg bike moving from standstill , torque is a unitless quantity that can be multiplied by gearing sacrificing rpm in the process. Harley iron first gear ratio is around 10(approx figure , might be 9.5) which means the the rear wheel torque in first gear will be torque(at crank) * 10 while rpm(crank) will be divided by 10 . Once you gain momentum , you can sacrifice rotational force(torque is rotational force) for more rpm because more rpm means your wheel rotates faster means you cover more distance in a given time. And every single motor company in world offer only crank figures upfront , it can be either measured at rear wheel or directly from crank during testing/R&D. Normally it is as measured at rear wheel.

A stock sportster 883 cc motor transmits 35bhp of power at rear wheel after losses , this is as per certain owners from a forum I visit regularly. They also claim a sportster motor depending on head , intake , exhaust and tuning can generate 60-80bhp at rear wheel though these are normally drag spec bikes purely built for straight line racing and come at the expense of very short engine life. Buell used the sportster motor for their 'sportsbike' with different cam profile and valve springs(better engine head) and people claim those bike generated roughly 10bhp more in stock form . The general consensus is anything more than a exhaust and intake can severly affect engine reliability .

I wholeheartedly agree with your last point , it is the 'dyno between our legs' that matter end of the day but one should still inspect engine performance as it is indicative of the quality ,tuning and engineering of the product.