[BackInTheFold]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Low end power i can understand, but once you rev there is no comparison in the way a Tiger would fly off in the hands of the right rider ofcourse (69 Vs 90? bhp) Yes the 5-6 lakhs price difference may be too much for people on a budget, but if you manage one in pre-owned nothing like it for VFM.

Couldn't agree more.

I've ridden both the XR and the V650 on alternate weekends for reasonable distances over 2 months. Over a span of 6 months, I've ridden the V twice as much as I've ridden the XR.

My experience was diametrically opposite to the points raised by the other gentleman who'd rented the bikes:
- The Tiger is shorter
- V felt heavier and due to its added height, required more effort while traversing village roads with the proverbial chicken crossing them. At normal speeds too, I preferred the lower Tiger by a smaller margin
- Tiger has so much more power on tap on the highway. The V works itself up energetically but taps out in comparison

I think the V is a great value-for-money fun-to-ride package. However, in my opinion, a used, well maintained recent XR would rather effectively negate the 60% of the price for 80% of the bike argument usually made for the V.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I am quiet surprised to hear heavy comment especially with V being about 15-20 kg heavier? The front cone as pointed above and the tyres would

have made the difference. Mind you the tyres make a big difference in the chuckability of the vehicle and is well established on all the reviews.

Yes, that's the surprising fact. As you rightly said, V is heavier but, it's handling is better than the Tiger 800 and it's also established in many reviews

The Showa Separate function forks and rear preloader makes one hell of a difference. Also, the suspension of the V is far superior than the Tiger 800 (You don't have to take it from me, ride it to know it for yourself)

I agree that tyres do effect the handling but, even with stock tyres on both bikes, V handles much better than a Tiger and primary reason is because of a better suspension

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Low end power i can understand, but once you rev there is no comparison in the way a Tiger would fly off in the hands of the right rider ofcourse

(69 Vs 90? bhp)

Hmm! I ride with same Tiger 800 friend for almost every ride and he is like me an aggressive rider and I never see him take off like you described where he disappeared leaving me in the dust or I find it hard to catch him up if he is leading.

9 out of 10 times, I lead our ride so not sure on what basis you are stating those points? With respect to top speed both bikes can do "almost" similar top speeds. Even if there is a difference it's so negligible in real world it does not really matter. At low-end and mid-range V shines better but, top-end of Tiger is little more flexible whereas the V struggles at the upper end of the spectrum

Jaggu, curious to know how many kms you spent on the V?

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Yes the 5-6 lakhs price difference may be too much for people on a budget, but if you manage one in pre-owned nothing like it for VFM.

People on budget? If the bike is good and value for money people would still buy it. Were they not buying the Tiger before V was introduced?

Not sure if you have an inkling how many people have considered Tiger and then consciously bought the V ( I know a couple of dozen folks in the V group who can stand up and raise their hands).

One of them test rode a Tiger 800 for 1000kms and still bought the V and racked up 30,000kms in 1 year and still heaves a sigh of relief with his decision

Before the V was launched, there was no option and this segment was monopolized by Tiger. I too was a fan of it at one time for it's styling, 3-pot engine and being a overall lovely long distance touring bike.

Now after owning a V at it's price point. It simply does not make any sense to own the Tiger (unless Tiger keeda (urge) has bitten the prospect really hard..Haha)

Also, here we are comparing a brand-new to brand-new so why bring a pre-owned Tiger into the equation?

Originally Posted by Surajit333

There is a distinct heaviness with the tiger, while stopping, while moving at lower speeds

After riding the V, Tiger will most certainly will feel heavy irrespective of what shoes its wearing. Period !

Originally Posted by Surajit333

Tiger XR was unsettling in gravel roads (I basically had my heart in my mouth). I am an average rider like most. Maybe someday with training I will be able to ride. better (although why would anyone want to take a top heavy motorcycle like that offroad beats me now).

Well, I'll make no two bones about it. Neither the Tiger XR/X nor the Versys 650/1000 are off-road motorcycles. At best, it can handle a small rough patch/terrain/small ditches/tiny boulders etc and that is NOT off-roading..LOL!

Originally Posted by Surajit333

Versys

From a renting perspective, given a choice between the two I would pick the Versys every time even if there is a discount on the Tiger.

That's a neat compliment for the V !!!

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

I think the V is a great value-for-money fun-to-ride package. However, in my opinion, a used, well maintained recent XR would rather effectively negate the 60% of the price for 80% of the bike argument usually made for the V.

Thanks for the honest comparison. I think this point is quite contradictory to your own feedback of both bikes. Any buyer would look for value for money and if someone is plonking in such large sums of money for a motorcycle they would go for a cheaper bike which can do "everything" that a more expensive bike can do if you don't bring the "preowned" equation into the game (even then it would be 2 lakhs expensive than a new Versys 650)

To summarize, If Versys 650 was not launched in India. Tiger 800 still would have been ruling the roost. Unfortunately, not anymore !!!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Yes the 5-6 lakhs price difference may be too much for people on a budget, but if you manage one in pre-owned nothing like it for VFM.

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

However, in my opinion, a used, well maintained recent XR would rather effectively negate the 60% of the price for 80% of the bike argument usually made for the V.

Let's stick to an apples v/s apples comparison, shall we?

The very nature of the used vehicle purchases makes it cheaper than new vehicles. Thats true everywhere, be it with cars or bikes. A used BMW 3 series can be had for the price of a new Honda City. Used market is just that - used market, and is hardly of relevance when talking the prices of new products.

Talking of new vehicles, the XR is certainly in no-man's land when it comes to pricing as against to the likes of the Versys.

Off Topic -

Triumph Tigers will have tough days going forward IMO. XC series will come under heavy competition with the launch of the Honda Africa Twin. The big explorer will be almost dead if the rumoured pricing on the BMW GS comes true. Tough days ahead for Tigers, but competition means all the more better for the customers.

[BackInTheFold]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Thanks for the honest comparison. I think this point is quite contradictory to your own feedback of both bikes. Any buyer would look for value for money and if someone is plonking in such large sums of money for a motorcycle they would go for a cheaper bike which can do "everything" that a more expensive bike can do if you don't bring the "preowned" equation into the game (even then it would be 2 lakhs expensive than a new Versys 650)

To summarize, If Versys 650 was not launched in India. Tiger 800 still would have been ruling the roost. Unfortunately, not anymore !!!

It is not really contradictory if you think about it - it is what GTO expounds so well about lateral upgrades in cars (e.g. new Jetta vs. used 320). It is value for money and is therefore subjective - not best new X for money.

The V650 has made adventure touring fun and accessible and has matured and made the market by doing so. I don't think that the market would be as big if only the Tiger 800 were in play and the only other alternative were the Himalayan. The V650 is a no-compromise well-put-together package - you really have everything that you need and more.

I really like the V650. I wouldn't have ridden it as much as I have if I didn't

Regardless of launches in the top end (Africa Twin or the Bimmers), I expect the next big shift in the market to be if/when KTM launches their ADV 390

[Jaggu]

Wooooooah!! seems like i have rubbed the V gang in the wrong sense. Anyways let me clarify a little, dont feel bad.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Yes, that's the surprising fact. As you rightly said, V is heavier but, it's handling is better than the Tiger 800 and it's also established in many reviews

A fellow member who does not want to participate here sent me a message and that really had the answer. To quote him belos:

I feel the main reason for the handling difference between both these bikes and why the Tiger feels lazy in sudden direction changes and cornering is
the Tiger XR and XRX has a 19 inch front wheel (XCX has a 21 inch front wheel) and the V650 has a 17 inch front wheel which makes the handling more direct.

This 2 inch wheel size difference changes the characteristics of the XR/XRX.

The Showa Separate function forks and rear preloader makes one hell of a difference. Also, the suspension of the V is far superior than the Tiger 800 (You don't have to take it from me, ride it to know it for yourself)

Did i ever say it was not? I have ridden XCX and that WPS? suspension is kick ass also, i will never make such irrational comparison.

I agree that tyres do effect the handling but, even with stock tyres on both bikes, V handles much better than a Tiger and primary reason is because of a better suspension

I did not remember the size difference, and that would make a big difference. Wont it?

Hmm! I ride with same Tiger 800 friend for almost every ride and he is like me an aggressive rider and
=====
Tiger is little more flexible whereas the V struggles at the upper end of the spectrum

I think this is where things went wrong, i was never pointing at anybodys riding skills to make it personal, but was referring to obvious power and weight difference. And unless it is some clumsy diesel auto engine, in a normal world performance would be quite different.

Jaggu, curious to know how many kms you spent on the V?

Zero kilometers (i thought you knew?), that is why i stay away as much as possible from certain threads. I have ridden Ninja 650's but at that time after the Striple it felt lame. I have sat on Versuth and thats about it. Am i tempted to ride it? Hope not, right now happy reading how great it is on your thread.

Not sure if you have an inkling how many people have considered Tiger and then consciously bought the V ( I know a couple of dozen folks in the V group who can stand up and raise their hands).

I know two.

One of them test rode a Tiger 800 for 1000kms and still bought the V and racked up 30,000kms in 1 year and still heaves a sigh of relief with his decision

I don't have anything to add off value here, car bike purchases are purely personal. When you were planning i tried to tell you the advantages of having that little bit off extra oomph on the right hand, but then you went ahead with V, after that have i ever commented even in private also?

Before the V was launched, there was no option and this segment was monopolized by Tiger. I too was a fan of it at one time for it's styling, 3-pot engine and being a overall lovely long distance touring bike.

Another perspective is- people were ready to compromise because the additional stuff that Tiger offered never made sense for them. It is perfectly fine.

Also, here we are comparing a brand-new to brand-new so why bring a pre-owned Tiger into the equation?

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Let's stick to an apples v/s apples comparison, shall we?

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

It is not really contradictory if you think about it - it is what GTO expounds so well about lateral upgrades in cars (e.g. new Jetta vs. used 320). It is value for money and is therefore subjective - not best new X for money.

Relax boys, hope this ^ answers and i am also a big fan of pre-owned these days. Especially since it gave me comfortable options in my hand to own things that i could only dream off.

The V650 has made adventure touring fun and accessible and has matured and made the market by doing so.
===
Regardless of launches in the top end (Africa Twin or the Bimmers), I expect the next big shift in the market to be if/when KTM launches their ADV 390

Spot on! competition and more models are good for us customers. I am all for it. And i completely agree Africa with DCT and premium Honda india pricing would make it quiet a dud. I am also looking forward to the KTM adv models, that would give a good kick in the butt for all competition.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

It is not really contradictory if you think about it - it is what GTO expounds so well about lateral upgrades in cars (e.g. new Jetta vs. used 320). It is value for money and is therefore subjective - not best new X for money.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The very nature of the used vehicle purchases makes it cheaper than new vehicles. Thats true everywhere, be it with cars or bikes. A used BMW 3 series can be had for the price of a new Honda City. Used market is just that - used market, and is hardly of relevance when talking the prices of new products.

I feel this analogy is wrong.

Here we are talking about Honda City being almost on par with a BMW320 . Is a Honda City equal in terms of BMW320? It's nowhere close.

In any case, preowned market is just that-preowned where anything can be had for "Cheap"...I personally never bought a preowned ever in my life of the 15-16 vehicles purchased in last 10-12 years

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

The V650 has made adventure touring fun and accessible and has matured and made the market by doing so. I don't think that the market would be as big if only the Tiger 800 were in play and the only other alternative were the Himalayan. The V650 is a no-compromise well-put-together package - you really have everything that you need and more.

Oh my, my! Let's not even talk about the Himalayan in same breathe as the V650 D

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

I really like the V650. I wouldn't have ridden it as much as I have if I didn't

Do you own the V650 or you rent it? How many kms you clocked on it?

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

Regardless of launches in the top end (Africa Twin or the Bimmers), I expect the next big shift in the market to be if/when KTM launches their ADV 390

Absolutely. Everyone is waiting for ADV 390. But, if the bike is not spacious then it will only find buyers from the D390 segment who will just upgrade. Touring bikes need to be spacious and that is one area I personally dont like the Duke because of its super compact size

I'm waiting for AT and GS1200 and would be keenly following their story in India as they are the only true successors to V650

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Wooooooah!! seems like i have rubbed the V gang in the wrong sense. Anyways let me clarify a little, dont feel bad.

There is nothing like a V gang. It's just that we all are basking in the glory of this beautiful motorcycle...LOL!

Originally Posted by Jaggu

A fellow member who does not want to participate here sent me a message and that really had the answer. To quote him belos:

Did i ever say it was not? I have ridden XCX and that WPS? suspension is kick ass also, i will never make such irrational comparison.I did not remember the size difference, and that would make a big difference. Wont it?

You are right! I forgot to talk about the wheel size. I think in motorcycle word, front wheel @17" seems to be an ideal size for great handling.

Anything bigger the handling is not as crisp and that could be the reason for Tiger XR/X and WCX

Another example which I had drilled home during my Bonnie ownership

Bonnie SE (Regular Bonnie) : 17" wheels and amazing handling

T100/T120 : 19" wheels and handling is good but not as crisp as the SE

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Relax boys, hope this ^ answers and i am also a big fan of pre-owned these days. Especially since it gave me comfortable options in my hand to own things that i could only dream off.

Due to my personal fear of getting roughed up by you next time we meet in Bangalore, will relax and let it go for now

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Off Topic -

Triumph Tigers will have tough days going forward IMO. XC series will come under heavy competition with the launch of the Honda Africa Twin. The big explorer will be almost dead if the rumoured pricing on the BMW GS comes true. Tough days ahead for Tigers, but competition means all the more better for the customers.

OT Reply

If the BMW GS 1200 is coming around 16 lakhs, the Tiger and Multistrada will surely feel the heat and how. Add KTM to the fold, end result is more option to the buyers with competitve prices than monopolistic pricing.

So chill out guys, ride more write less

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

So chill out guys, ride more write less

Well, one more OT to close this subject

That is the problem. I note many members have vast knowledge but, dont speak up.

Majority of members on forum just consume the available information here but, dont share their experiences which is a sad but, true fact

So, I will tweak your point slightly. Ride More and also Write More

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Well, one more OT to close this subject

That is the problem. I note many members have vast knowledge but, dont speak up.

Majority of members on forum just consume the available information here but, dont share their experiences which is a sad but, true fact

So, I will tweak your point slightly. Ride More and also Write More

The problem with writing more is there will be more defending of what each one owns and entirely diluting the essence itself. Sometimes consumption is good instead of picking a debate/argument online. Not intending that it is happening in this thread. See my Linea ownership thread, initially members are arguing if my choice was right to buy the car.

I have been experimenting with my car so much, I don't post to keep the arguments away as I can't control what others post. Sujai is aware of some of my experiments.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

The problem with writing more is there will be more defending of what each one owns and entirely diluting the essence itself. Sometimes consumption is good instead of picking a debate/argument online. Not intending that it is happening in this thread. See my Linea ownership thread, initially members are arguing if my choice was right to buy the car.

I have been experimenting with my car so much, I don't post to keep the arguments away as I can't control what others post. Sujai is aware of some of my experiments.

I'm not talking about "theoretical" knowledge/key-board warriors/google gurus of which the forum is rampant with and such feedback I anyways ignore/discount and never count it as actual feedback

I'm referring to actual feedback from people who owned/used it for extended period of times a Linea or Versys in my case. I only respect such feedback because they have personally experienced it and not sharing it from hearsay

Anways, we are digressing so lets come back on course

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by mobike008

I'm waiting for AT and GS1200 and would be keenly following their story in India as they are the only true successors to V650

Now do you want GS guys to put a supari or what?! I can understand your excitement with your bike but this is precisely where you get carried away.

There is nothing like a V gang. It's just that we all are basking in the glory of this beautiful motorcycle...LOL!

Nothing wrong man, as long as you enjoy it nothing else matters. As for me, i am very happy with my purchase also, but i really don't think my bike needs all the PR that i can give it. It still sells to foolish folks with money to throw around lol

You are right! I forgot to talk about the wheel size. I think in motorcycle word, front wheel @17" seems to be an ideal size for great handling.

Yes!!! we both missed it, this is a big advantage when it comes to handling.

Anything bigger the handling is not as crisp and that could be the reason for Tiger XR/X and WCX

But then it gives a huge advantage on broken roads, am sure you would have heard of horror stories of bent rim from V folks. So it is a compromise, i absolutely loved the XCX when i rode it over the broken stuff towards Goa. Infact that one single ride convinced me to Tiger. Even XRX though slightly crisper handling (according to me), was no where close to XC when it comes to handling rough patch, thanks to that awesome suspension and wired wheels. But then i wanted tubeless tyres and did not have the budget also, since the original plan was to by a brand new XrX before Tiggu came along.

Due to my personal fear of getting roughed up by you next time we meet in Bangalore, will relax and let it go for now

Lol no man, you know i am a peaceful person. I hardly react to stuff esp when numbers and obvious points are quoted (like V suspension), atleast give me credits of a decade and half plus roaming on various automotive forums. Everywhere there is a bunch of fan-atics, some you can reason with... Others you just let it be, coz they will eventually find something better than present, thanks to the great leveler called time. Peace!

[mobike008]

3 Team BHP'ians (mobike008, IDPSharma, Onaversys) and 3 Kawasaki's (2 Versys 650 & Z800) rode from Hyderabad to Goa during the 2nd week of March-2017. Each side is 750kms away. It was a fun long weekend ride and we covered some 1800kms in this ride !!

Each side of the ride took us approximately 14-14.5 hours (including stops for refills, meals, water breaks, photo shoot breaks etc)

And, in Goa we rode up to the top most beach of Tiracol (MH Border) till almost the southern tip (Benaulim Beach) and not to mention some quaint and beautiful back-roads of old Goa. We even rode up to Vasco Ship Harbour which is out of the way from North and South Goa for a different experience of Goa

Here is a short video from a Z800 by IDPSharma, he is editing a video for the first time and has done a fabulous job. Don't you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oll1wv5ghuA

[mobike008]

Here is a short write-up and photoblog of our Goa ride in the form of a travelogue

Hope you enjoy reading it as much as I loved created it

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...rabad-goa.html

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Wooooooah!! seems like i have rubbed the V gang in the wrong sense.

Nothing like that Jaggu.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Relax boys, hope this ^ answers and i am also a big fan of pre-owned these days. Especially since it gave me comfortable options in my hand to own things that i could only dream off.

Exactly, that's the beauty of the pre-owned market. But, that said - The comparison is only relevant because the Tiger 800s are the most common options available in the user market at the prices of a new Versys 650, for now. I can only imagine that the situation will be very different in a year or two - where all the Multistradas and the likes will also start trickling down to these prices, because they are not priced too far ahead as compared to the Tigers.

But again, being another guy who won't take the pre-owned route, specially for motorcycles which have a higher chances of being abused and been involved in accidents / crashes, and also ones having extremely high depreciation rates - I really tend to think of new / used market as two entirely different worlds of their own.

[Jaggu]

but i think i should share how i got converted and this is like Jio offer, one needs to grab it when it's free and use it to max.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

But again, being another guy who won't take the pre-owned route

I was like this before "no pre-owned stuff", but then i figured out checking for the following stuff (quoted below) is a very easy thing, especially with premium bikes.

being abused and been involved in accidents / crashes

And then when i realized the following is the absolute truth

extremely high depreciation rates

It made better sense to pick up a used bike, even than buying a used car. They can be validated more thoroughly, especially the history and ownership. And they drop price every second after delivery, best part is getting them back to spic and span condition which costs peanuts! I spent a princely sum of INR 10,000/- which included a detailing and a full service with oil change.

I really tend to think of new / used market as two entirely different worlds of their own.

Trust me, once you get the hang of it you will be amazed at what you can get for peanuts and that too in pristine condition.

And i am not speaking from just my experience, i have another friend who just picked a big honda which had done just 2500 Kms, under two years bike for about 50% of OTR price. No not a showroom or test ride bike and all it needed was a chain lube and a good wash.

Then there is Adi who picked a showroom condition bonnie and saved couple of lakhs.

So it is very easy to brush off saying, it does not work for me. But when you look at the choices and the money saved, it will become a no-brainer.

FYI i saved about 1.5 Lakhs just in interest money to the bank, and avoided that additional tension of one more EMI to be carried for 3 years. Vs booking cancellation of 5k by Triumph + 10k of rejuination and the best part... i got the delivery 3 weeks before what Triumph had committed