[rohitbagai]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

When was the last time you saw a 2+ tonne vehicle having front wheel drive.
All the heavy vehicles are rwd as it is the recommended dose for traction. the weight transfer happens to the rear on inclines and under accleration..

You may be right but another reason for heavy vehicle been rwd is because they are primarily used for "loading" purpose.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by rohitbagai

You may be right but another reason for heavy vehicle been rwd is because they are primarily used for "loading" purpose.

All buses, that are not used for loading, including the newer Volvo ones are RWD.
I am not saying RWD is better - at the limit, RWD can oversteer that is more difficult to control compared to understeer in FWD. At the same time, if traction application is what is needed, or grip on steep inclines - RWD is better.

Also, the power train and related paraphernalia in a FWD vehicle reduces "road feel". RWD vehicles generally have a better road feel on the steering...I guess that explains why the Innova steering feels better than even a Corolla.

[rohitbagai]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

All buses, that are not used for loading, including the newer Volvo ones are RWD.
I am not saying RWD is better - at the limit, RWD can oversteer that is more difficult to control compared to understeer in FWD. At the same time, if traction application is what is needed, or grip on steep inclines - RWD is better.

Also, the power train and related paraphernalia in a FWD vehicle reduces "road feel". RWD vehicles generally have a better road feel on the steering...I guess that explains why the Innova steering feels better than even a Corolla.

By loading I mean goods or passengers.
Any ways there is a dedicated thread discussing rwd/fwd it's better we discuss it over there.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by rohitbagai

By loading I mean goods or passengers.
Any ways there is a dedicated thread discussing rwd/fwd it's better we discuss it over there.

Sorry - did not realize that you believe MUVs (Innova, XUV etc) are generally not meant for "loading" goods or passengers.

Note that we are NOT discussing RWD versus FWD here but some basic differences between the XUV and Innova design.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Sorry - did not realize that you believe MUVs (Innova, XUV etc) are generally not meant for "loading" goods or passengers.

Note that we are NOT discussing RWD versus FWD here but some basic differences between the XUV and Innova design.

You did not understand.

There is a difference between a load carrying heavy vehicle like trucks and buses and an MUV/Crossover carrying 7 passengers.

In simple words, just because Innova is a RWD, it does not give it any advantage over the XUV which has much more torque.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

You did not understand.

There is a difference between a load carrying heavy vehicle like trucks and buses and an MUV/Crossover carrying 7 passengers.

In simple words, just because Innova is a RWD, it does not give it any advantage over the XUV which has much more torque.

Devil is in the details my dear friend. A particular architecture has its advantages and shortcoming. Torque means more pulling power but

a> At what RPM is it available - what is the torque curve?
b> How much is the traction available for the wheels to fruitfully utilize the torque.


Also, all vehicles are different. The situation that I have discussed is grip available on steep inclines and not some general purpose comparison.

Nothing is too small to leave unnoticed - FWD versus RWD on a loaded vehicle will make a significant difference in grip available. We cannot dismiss it by saying "Just because" or "You did not understand". We are having a discussion here and w/o real world testing, there is no point in arriving at definitive conclusions.

[liferocks]

Its not that we are comparing summers to winters or days to nights, here. B
Pros and cons are indispensable part of anything in life. On the one hand Innova is a proven workhorse with good levels of comfort and the other one is a young, goodlooking, a little flashy creature with good genes (read engine) and more safety equipment.
Innova does look dated and generally viewed as a commercial vehicle. XUVs on the other hand suffer from Quality control resulting in small niggles(mostly).

In my company we have innovas which have completed 500000kms and engines are yet to be overhauled. Tough isnt it? But Mahindra's engine is known to be reliable too.

So in the end I think one should buy something which he believes is a right balance between mind and heart.

[rohitbagai]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

The situation that I have discussed is grip available on steep inclines and not some general purpose comparison.

Nothing is too small to leave unnoticed.

The situation you are discussing, if we look in percentage terms it's not more than 2-5 percent of our normal driving, for remaining 95-98 percent of the times we are on flat surface. Out of those 2-5 percent of the times how many times we will be traveling fully loaded? ( to give proper traction to the rwd )
When I was on a similar event at Mahindra Great Escape, I saw xylos and Scorpio's jumping like ducks and rear tyres burnt their rubbers because they did not have traction as they were not "fully loaded" while I managed those tracks without a fuss.
The grip available to a rwd depends on the load it is carrying while for fwd decent grip is available all the time because it has engine weight. Power availability to tyres that maneuver is an advantage.
Also the torque band of XUV is better because of its variable geometry turbo charger which provide ample torque at low end. Innova don't have VGT.

[kums]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

4) Power. Innova simply fails. On a determined drive in our Wagon R, I was able to inch ahead ( and remain ahead of ) Innova on highway. He never could overtake me. Believe me, on high speed runs, Innova is not good. Till 100, its nice, beyond that, clearly the lack of grunt shows up. Innova has shorter gearing which does a good job to hide the lack of power but on highways, even the FE takes a hit. The not so aerodynamic and taller Xylo manages better FE figures.
This is the only major issue with Innova, i.e. lack of power.

. Sometimes.Even I used give a tough time to a fully loaded innova in my fully loaded i10 while cruising at speeds around 100-120 kmph in NH,in straight line stretch though.This,I cant do with a scorpio . ( I feel justified in this comparo as both are class apart in performance.). Seriously I'm hoping for a upgrade to happen for innova's engine,as i'm bound to buy a second car - MPV/SUV next year. I'm afraid if it will ever happen ! Guys,what's your take on this? any possibility? I know its a dumb question !

[DieselLover]

Originally Posted by kums

. Sometimes.Even I used give a tough time to a fully loaded innova in my fully loaded i10 while cruising at speeds around 100-120 kmph in NH,in straight line stretch though.This,I cant do with a scorpio . ( I feel justified in this comparo as both are class apart in performance.). Seriously I'm hoping for a upgrade to happen for innova's engine,as i'm bound to buy a second car - MPV/SUV next year. I'm afraid if it will ever happen ! Guys,what's your take on this? any possibility? I know its a dumb question !

If high speed driving/performance is the criteria then Innova is out. It cannot keep up with most of the B segment hatches like Swift/Punto/i20 etc. Surprised to see that even Wagon R/i10 can keep up with Innova.
But when it comes to bad roads and ride quality, Innova will simply drive on

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by kums

Seriously I'm hoping for a upgrade to happen for innova's engine,as i'm bound to buy a second car - MPV/SUV next year. I'm afraid if it will ever happen ! Guys,what's your take on this? any possibility? I know its a dumb question !

From what I have read in ACI, Toyota is not inclined to change or upgrade the engine. The primary reason behind this is said to be the excellent long term reliability of current engine. The motor in current state of tune runs for more than 4 lakh kms. without overhaul and that too in commercial i.e. taxi use. Innova has earned this reputation just like qualis. Toyota does not want this image of high mileage no maintenance to get away from Innova. But all this was reported in ACI. Give that now we have a lower priced Aria, lets see what happens.

In international markets, Fortuner is available the same engine as Innova in India, but with a VGT and higher state of tune producing 140+ BHP. Bring even a milder 120 bhp version of the same engine and the Innova would be again the king for another 10 years.

Originally Posted by DieselLover

Surprised to see that even Wagon R/i10 can keep up with Innova.
But when it comes to bad roads and ride quality, Innova will simply drive on

The BOF construction, tidy dynamics, long term reliability are things which is keeping Innova alive. An Alto K10 would also give Innova tough time. Have witnessed this more than once on National Expresshighway 1 ( between A'bad and Vadodara )

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Innova has earned this reputation just like qualis. Toyota does not want this image of high mileage no maintenance to get away from Innova. But all this was reported in ACI. Give that now we have a lower priced Aria, lets see what happens.

Makes perfect sense. Innova sells because of its long term reliability factor and not because of its engine capability. That was never its high point. But in the view of other MUV/SUV launches in the 10L category eating into Innova's numbers, it would be interesting to see if Toyota tries and launches a cheaper variant.

[kums]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

From what I have read in ACI, Toyota is not inclined to change or upgrade the engine. The primary reason behind this is said to be the excellent long term reliability of current engine. The motor in current state of tune runs for more than 4 lakh kms. without overhaul and that too in commercial i.e. taxi use. Innova has earned this reputation just like qualis. Toyota does not want this image of high mileage no maintenance to get away from Innova. But all this was reported in ACI. Give that now we have a lower priced Aria, lets see what happens.

In international markets, Fortuner is available the same engine as Innova in India, but with a VGT and higher state of tune producing 140+ BHP. Bring even a milder 120 bhp version of the same engine and the Innova would be again the king for another 10 years.

A very good point indeed ! So we can only hope for some really hot competition to happen to the mighty innova and wait for toyota's reaction.Even if it doesnot happen,I wonder how many years more will toyota run the same engine in the same state of tuning! I fear if it will go till 2020 Another factor is with the mileage already being lower than competition,If they plonk up the Bhp,this is only become worse right? Atleast they should have added a sixth gear and reduced NVH levels. Anyway nothing is gonna happen in the next one year.I must just make a choice and move on

[jsaran]

I was following this thread for a while. About 3 weeks ago, I got my XUV (yes, we chose it over the Innova) and I love it. I drove my Ford for over 5 years and covered most for the places within drivable distance from Gurgaon on it and my big fear was that I would not enjoy my next car as much... The XUV doesn't disappoint.

Yes, the interiors are a little cheesy and the quality of plastic could have been better, but when behind the wheel, the car gives you a thrill beyond what the Innova could ever provide. Is there scope for improvement? yes there is. Would I have paid another lakh ( or two) for better quality of finish? Probably. But am I complaining? No.

The buying experience was surprisingly pleasant. The car was delivered before time and I cannot say that the experience was any better or worse than what I have seen with Maruti, Hyundai or Ford earlier... or with Volkswagen or Toyota recently while I was scouting for my new car. I understand from my neighbour who has a Scorpio and an XUV that the service quality in Gurgaon has improved as there are 2 other service centres besides Sterling Motors, who had a monopoly earlier.

We are planning our first road trip over the coming weekend and I'm quite looking forward to testing it on a 250-300km run. I am quite upbeat about my decision at this point. However, in case it changes, I will come back and let everyone know.

[lucksin]

My family is planning to upgrade Ritz with a bigger family car now and after lot of reading and Test driving only two options were shortlisted which suits our requirement best

1) Innova - near ZEN perfection, reliable and comfortable for parents
2) XUV 5oo - Gagets gagets and gagets and Looks

Ritz have performed dutyfully for past 3 years and 64000 KM. never in last 3 years ritz was taken to workshop for any kind of repair except following service @ 10000 KM religiously. in between these 3 years time came and i got married and increased the member count. however we Baleno and accent but all in all its only 5 seater and over long run it gets tiring in any of the car. and moreover with Petrol prices going up our weekend trips outside delhi seems to take a good hit on pocket.

so we went and started taking test drives, tried Aria and boy what a car ! provided it was a reliable car would have booked it without any hitch. but everything leaks in this car.. from brake fluid to power steering to even gear oil and hence was removed from the list.

Ertiga, was not very peppy to drive and seemed under powered.

Xylo, never considered bad looks

Duster, again 5 seater to max and loooooooong waiting period

Used Fortuner : was told by known, if brought through dealer 100% guarantee that meter will be tampered and many questionable remarks removed from service center if records were to taken out. so for now not considering used options.

Innova : now the best of the lot, Reliable, a car meant to be on road than in service center. comfortable for my parents for longer journey. VX is fully loaded with touch screen, DVD and ABS. new looks looks refreshing. MIND is pushing to go for it.

XUV 5oo : one hell of a car!! love the looks and the way it rides. though a lil stiffer still better. not a fan of last row but will still accommodate. and after going through 99 pages of niggles and problem on XUV thread dont want to invest in it. HEART says to go for it and niggles can be taken care of. also niggles would mean changing parts and its a curse to see your new 1.5 mill rupee vehicle being torned apart in front of you and Mahindra as i know will scratch things here and there while changing parts. plus the time lost in service center.

can any one provide feedback on 2013 XUV's about the quality or is it more or less the same as 2012 models. THe waiting period on XUV has come down and i am promised to get the delivery withen the month. where as Innova will take a week's time to be delivered.

As so confused as i really want to buy a SUV and satisfy the 'Want' where is Innova checks all the ticks in my book for all the need.

any feedback/suggestion would help.