[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

LOL, that is some pretty serious advice. Pray tell me, why this strong anti Scorpio sentiment from an owner? Your answer will help a lot of things that are going on in my mind.

I went through the same thought process as you and unfortunately took the wrong decision and I regret to this day. The reason why we cant a LWD 4WD Tourer is so that we can go of the beaten path with confidence. I won't suggest the Scorpio 4WD for the following reasons.

1) Suspension Travel is extremely limited resulting in the vehicle constantly riding the bump stop. The Scorpio 4WD has only about has only about 3 inches of suspension travel with lousy OEM shocks resulting in a very bumpy ride.

2) Electric 4WD System has exposed electrical connectors and the motor is not water proof either. So god forbid you are forced to change to 4H or 4L when motor is underwater, your 4WD system will stop working and dealer doesn't know how to repair the transfer case.

3) Suspension is not strong enough for rough use. After one 4WD excursion my lower arm was bent and had to get it changed. I also have to do wheel alignment every 5000 kms.

4) Ground clearance is only 180 mm and your center diff is constantly scraping the ground.

6) I have been stranded 2 times with a failed clutch slave cylinder.

To me the most important elements of a 4WD Tourer is to have robust and comfortable suspension and reliable power train. Scorpio doesn't tick any of the boxes.

I use a 4WD SUV like it is meant to be used. I don't baby it like a passenger car and regularly travel over bad roads.

Once again, please do not waste money on a Scorpio 4WD.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I went through the same thought process as you and unfortunately took the wrong decision and I regret to this day. The reason why we cant a LWD 4WD Tourer is so that we can go of the beaten path with confidence. I won't suggest the Scorpio 4WD for the following reasons.

Thats a lot of issues that you are facing with the Scorpio 4WD. Looks like the number of votes received for the Scorpio too reflect pretty much the same issues.

[HappyRoadie]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I went through the same thought process as you and unfortunately took the wrong decision and I regret to this day. The reason why we cant a LWD 4WD Tourer is so that we can go of the beaten path with confidence. I won't suggest the Scorpio 4WD for the following reasons.

Could you please tell me whether the points mentioned above are only for 4WD Scorpio's only or they are applicable for 2WD Scorpio as well?

[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by HappyRoadie

Could you please tell me whether the points mentioned above are only for 4WD Scorpio's only or they are applicable for 2WD Scorpio as well?

I must say with my experience irrespective any wheel drive, Scorpio's suspension is always on harder side and it provides bumpy ride.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by anujmishra

I must say with my experience irrespective any wheel drive, Scorpio's suspension is always on harder side and it provides bumpy ride.

Ride quality is not my problem though. What I m looking for is a vehicle that will last really long and can be maintained easily either at the ASC or outside without having to pull the ends of the world together for spares, even small ones.

All in all, a new Scorpio 4WD is ruled out as suggested by all. It most likely will be a new Fortuner/Pajero Sport or at worst, a new XUV.

[sh@rpshooter]

If you can affod the Pajero Sport, would you want to consider the Nissan Xterra as well ?
I am in a somewhat similiar situation but not really in that much of a hurry..Have a Scorpio since 2007and do love it and thinking of a change in the next 1 year
XUV as a natural choice is a bit too femininine and not so great reports on driving as well hence at this price range would prefer buying the new scorpio than this.

Fortuner: ..does not make me want to cough up the price asked for it. although looks wise/performance wise this seems to be the natural upgrade from the muscular scorpio
Old Pajero: it is Old. Period. and in 5 years time will be still older and hence last choice for me..my friend who owns a 2 year old pajero himself wants to upgrade to the sport.
for folks who truly use an SUV for what its meant for -offroading ,this is perhaps the best choice today (ie 2 year old used) but for those who want to use it as a family car as well, its not a great choice (IMHO)

Leaving aside maint cost , on only Value for Money i would go for the Pajero Sport or the nissan.

I plan to hold on for 1 more year see the new models from Ssangyong, Ranault and then decide...family is clear that they only want an SUV as the first car..else would have tied the knot with a VW Jetta.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by sh@rpshooter

If you can affod the Pajero Sport, would you want to consider the Nissan Xterra as well ?
I am in a somewhat similiar situation but not really in that much of a hurry..Have a Scorpio since 2007and do love it and thinking of a change in the next 1 year
XUV as a natural choice is a bit too femininine and not so great reports on driving as well hence at this price range would prefer buying the new scorpio than this.

Fortuner: ..does not make me want to cough up the price asked for it. although looks wise/performance wise this seems to be the natural upgrade from the muscular scorpio
Old Pajero: it is Old. Period. and in 5 years time will be still older and hence last choice for me..my friend who owns a 2 year old pajero himself wants to upgrade to the sport.

Which is quite similar to what I m thinking. I still love Hariya a lot and apart from the rare spare part that is not available, I find no reason to complain. Of course the lack of 4WD is an issue but I m anyway thinking of putting an MLD or diff locks on the rear axle which should give me enough caliber for most situations.

Coming to the Xterra, it is not yet launched and hence speculation is the only thing possible currently. The Fortuner is totally NFM (No Value for Money) but apart from it and the Sport, there are no options in the market.

[nilanjanray]

How is Pajero Sport more value for money compared to the Fortuner?

The Sport is based on a pickup, like the Fortuner. Unlike the Old/current Pajero. Offroading capabilities are equal from what I read in South African forums and mags. The Sport is a few lakhs more expensive. Use those few lakhs in the Fortuner, the interiors, ICE etc. will look totally different.

None are VFM. We suffer from a dearth of choices in the Indian market, and are forced to choose from what is available than what is reasonable.

[1100D]

Lets be fair.

I find, most folks saying that the Pajero is a better choice on grounds of the Pajero being a better vehicle. Ofcourse it is, who is contesting that? Even with an archaic engine, the thing costs twice as much as a poor scorp maxes out at. The transmission/drivetrain apart, a substantial portion of the difference in pricing is dictated by higher cost of spares.The way it rides is also well known (Does the Safari ride bad?).

However, buying a pre-owned one is a different story altogether. To get one at the price of a new scorpio, it wont be exactly "new", would have definitely be past its first 3-4 yrs or equivalent in KM's clocked. That's wherein the inferior Mahindra, starts making a little better sense. Leaving aside the default 2yrs warranty, you have the option of handing them the risk due to age/use for 2 more years. Personally, I find Mahindra a lot more proactive/logical/understanding on acknowledging warranty.

Do I mind the occassional bush replacement? Ofcourse not, they cost peanuts. In 30,000kms my own vehicle has put across, have only done the alignment twice and the tyres still retain uniform wear. Maybe my usage pattern might not be as adventurous as that of many people here.

Coming to the Paj!! Let aside 4yrs, already there is a part supply problem with the mother brand, in 2 yrs who knows, one would have to visit the museum for spares. Had checked with the outside spare shops for parts availability prior to shelving the plan to buy an used Pajero (given that its a well known local knowledge in Kolkata that Mitsu parts, especially that of the costlier ones, are hard to come by at the Mitsu workshops). Does it make sense, yes, if you can afford a few days (weeks) of downtime, if any (Pajero is regarded super reliable).


Then what is the workshop support? Compare with Mahindra, even if there are stories of incompetence at the workshops of this company, the workshops still exist, at most nook and corners of the country. Taking your car to them, or them taking it in, is far easier, almost like taking to a roadside Mech, with the comfort of not voiding the warranty.

Then its the Fortuner!! Buying an used one is almost same as buying a new scorp + another backup small car to takecare of the relative non reliability of a Mahindra product with respect to one from Toyota. One can always use the small car for other duties as well.

Speaking of Toyota reliability. Personal experience, one has left us stranded in the middle of a journey (however, they had designed it such that it breaks down beside a Dhaba serving fabulous alu-paratha) with a locked up rear brake, when we had a flight to catch (although it was a rental, it wasn't much used and the driver was a careful one). Another did show up signs of occasional AC malfunctioning. However, will not contest the general perception that Toyota products are mostly perceived to be issueless (although personal experience does not seem to be supporting it)

As a matter of fact found this one quite reliable, only emissions were a little non-compliant.



Thats the stuck Toyota in the background

[sumannandy]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The XUV is certainly within budget, say after 6 months and I am in no hurry to buy/upgrade, BUT, the only reason I m shying away from an Indian/European brand is availability of spares, be it M&M, Tata or otherwise, AND, the interior quality. They begin to rattle in small places, plastic locks break, rubber gaskets fail, nothing big but then you dont get replacements.

As and when models get outphased, the supply of spares drops drastically.

On the other hand, I see people buying decade old Landcruisers, for example, and restoring them pretty easily since their spares, big or small are available.

I am driving a 12 years old tata safari tcic 4wd and I never faced any problem in getting spares. I had my share of niggles which got sorted out by replacing most, if not all, relays in the car. Now I have problems in some parts failing, but stranded only three times. Parts are usually not expensive, what is bad is the service centers trying to make quick money and you end up following up with corporate. But the vehicle has brought us back safely from many long drives and many remote places, and in many a drives, the middle seat was used as bed for sleeping.

I do not have a scorpio, but generally I would buy a scorpio or tata safari because I guess the maintenance would be low, and if something goes wrong, at least for Tata, I could talk to a person in corporate who would solve the issue to my satisfaction. This level of customer service may not be possible with foreign brands. In fact we have many horror stories on how a feedback email id is just a mail id.

And I had a corolla in U.S. and it was leaking oil after 115000 miles, generally not an issue with other pontiac I had in U.S. with more miles in odo. I also felt that it did not have enough powers at inclines with just two people on board, but it otherwise had a sunroof and it was nice. I have a better opinion on Honda. I bought a CR-V and used it for almost 30k miles in one and half year, and only work I did was oil change, no issues except the wiper spray or something acting up. The vehicle was an automatic 4wd and brought us back safely from all terrains, including 1-2 ft deep snow, yes, CR-V can pull itself out of snow or sand effortlessly if its not too bad.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

The Sport is based on a pickup, like the Fortuner. Unlike the Old/current Pajero. Offroading capabilities are equal from what I read in South African forums and mags. The Sport is a few lakhs more expensive. Use those few lakhs in the Fortuner, the interiors, ICE etc. will look totally different.

None are VFM. We suffer from a dearth of choices in the Indian market, and are forced to choose from what is available than what is reasonable.

I m not sure of customising the Fortuner's interiors to make it look significantly better since the ICE area is the only place which can be changed and the new Fortuner comes with a touchscreen ICE anyway.

Yes, both the Fortuner and the Sport are overpriced but the Sport looks and feels newer compared to the Fortuner. Capabilities, well, I d wait for a TBHP review prior to looking in that direction comparatively.

Originally Posted by 1100D

However, buying a pre-owned one is a different story altogether. To get one at the price of a new scorpio, it wont be exactly "new", would have definitely be past its first 3-4 yrs or equivalent in KM's clocked. That's wherein the inferior Mahindra, starts making a little better sense. Leaving aside the default 2yrs warranty, you have the option of handing them the risk due to age/use for 2 more years. Personally, I find Mahindra a lot more proactive/logical/understanding on acknowledging warranty.

I agree with you there which is why I m still fidgety about buying a used Pajero. Mitsubishi has enough issues on its hands to deal with and I would not be surprised if Pajero SFX spares become tougher and more expensive to procure, by the day.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Do I mind the occassional bush replacement? Ofcourse not, they cost peanuts. In 30,000kms my own vehicle has put across, have only done the alignment twice and the tyres still retain uniform wear. Maybe my usage pattern might not be as adventurous as that of many people here.

Neither do I but it is the non availability of spares, especially small ones, at times, that irritates me. Speak of plastic locks, washers, rubber gaskets, grommets et al which are essential spares to keep the vehicle in ship shape over long term ownership periods and they are pretty hard to procure due to M&M's strange habit of changing their specifications frequently and stopping the issue of older parts.
In fact, do you know that the bonnet of the CRDe with the scoop is no longer supplied by M&M?

Originally Posted by 1100D

However, will not contest the general perception that Toyota products are mostly perceived to be issueless (although personal experience does not seem to be supporting it)

Well, it is a case of choosing from the choices in the market, and thus far, Toyota seems to lead.

Originally Posted by sumannandy

I am driving a 12 years old tata safari tcic 4wd and I never faced any problem in getting spares. I had my share of niggles which got sorted out by replacing most, if not all, relays in the car. Now I have problems in some parts failing, but stranded only three times.
I do not have a scorpio, but generally I would buy a scorpio or tata safari because I guess the maintenance would be low, and if something goes wrong, at least for Tata, I could talk to a person in corporate who would solve the issue to my satisfaction. This level of customer service may not be possible with foreign brands.

Reliability is no issue at all with the Scorpio and it is simply bullet proof. Like I said earlier, it is the small spares which are an issue, say half of the time. I too know people at M&M and the local dealer who help me regularly in doing whatever best they can.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Neither do I but it is the non availability of spares, especially small ones, at times, that irritates me. Speak of plastic locks, washers, rubber gaskets, grommets et al which are essential spares to keep the vehicle in ship shape over long term ownership periods and they are pretty hard to procure due to M&M's strange habit of changing their specifications frequently and stopping the issue of older parts.

Is the HM Mitshu Pajero a better proposition regarding parts availability? In my city, even the outside shops dont have Mitsu parts in stock, things like O2 sensors and all. Scorp parts, I hear, are available, at the outside shops.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Is the HM Mitshu Pajero a better proposition regarding parts availability? In my city, even the outside shops dont have Mitsu parts in stock, things like O2 sensors and all. Scorp parts, I hear, are available, at the outside shops.

Not sure, but since the parts, especially rubber and plastic are made using better quality materials, they can be expected to last longer hence requiring fewer replacements in the long run. M&M rubber and plastic need significant improvements when compared to Mitsu or Toyota components.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I m not sure of customising the Fortuner's interiors to make it look significantly better since the ICE area is the only place which can be changed and the new Fortuner comes with a touchscreen ICE anyway.

Yes, both the Fortuner and the Sport are overpriced but the Sport looks and feels newer compared to the Fortuner. Capabilities, well, I d wait for a TBHP review prior to looking in that direction comparatively.

The stock ICE is not that good. A good one with navigation, with changed speakers and addition of amp, sub etc. can make a significant difference. One can also add TMPS, a nice ABC (alti/baro/compass) etc.

The trim can be drastically improve with better quality leather and by replacing the cheap looking faux wood panels. A black or mahogany leather + titanium or aluminum brush trim can make it look significantly better.

Then add aftermarket shocks (OME, say), and perhaps an ARB/Ironman bullguard.

All these should come within 3L.

Not that I would be spending money to make these changes, but if somehow I had extra 3L to spend just on the vehicle, I would opt for enhancements.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

M&M rubber and plastic need significant improvements when compared to Mitsu or Toyota components.

Agreed, however even the best quality materials do require the occasional replacement, what if you dont have them available anywhere within your city?

So regarding these occasional replacements, do you think you can trust Mitsu more for ease of availability?

As far as I know, for Mitsubishi even critical components are hard to come by. Even if they do, does entail a long downtime.