[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

The stock ICE is not that good. A good one with navigation, with changed speakers and addition of amp, sub etc. can make a significant difference. One can also add TMPS, a nice ABC (alti/baro/compass) etc.

Adding local/non OEM trim parts is something which I m not comfortable doing. Yes, the suspension can be improved by adding the components that you mentioned but if I add them to the Sports, wont that take it a couple of notches higher?

Originally Posted by 1100D

Agreed, however even the best quality materials do require the occasional replacement, what if you dont have them available anywhere within your city?

So regarding these occasional replacements, do you think you can trust Mitsu more for ease of availability?

Which is my biggest concern about looking at the Pajero SFX. This combined with the low FE are my biggest concerns in looking at it.
In today's day and age, anything below 10kmpl is bad, IMO.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Yes, the suspension can be improved by adding the components that you mentioned but if I add them to the Sports, wont that take it a couple of notches higher?

Yes, it would. But then the Sport is a few lakhs more expensive than the Fortuner to begin with.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Adding local/non OEM trim parts is something which I m not comfortable doing. Yes, the suspension can be improved by adding the components that you mentioned but if I add them to the Sports, wont that take it a couple of notches higher?

Which is my biggest concern about looking at the Pajero SFX. This combined with the low FE are my biggest concerns in looking at it.
In today's day and age, anything below 10kmpl is bad, IMO.

Now that you are almost ruling out the Pajero (inspite of a 50% vote guidance!!! a big question mark on decision based on raise of hands!! ) lets come to the Fortuner bit.

What price do you envisage a reasonably used Stock Fortuner would set you back by?

Compare that to the Scorp being in the comfort zone of being under warranty for 4 years. During that period, that company is obligated to furnish parts for you. On a different note, they are also quite open and forthcoming about honoring warranty.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Yes, it would. But then the Sport is a few lakhs more expensive than the Fortuner to begin with.

Yes, hence OEM to OEM comparison would be more impartial and IMO, though a detailed road test would determine it, the Sports, at least on the inside and presumably ride quality should better the Fortuner, provided the buyer has the extra money to shell out. Wait is the mantra I guess.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Now that you are almost ruling out the Pajero (inspite of a 50% vote guidance!!! a big question mark on decision based on raise of hands!! ) lets come to the Fortuner bit.

This is the dilemma I m facing. You see, Rush too is a staunch supporter of the pre-owned Pajero and the vehicle is proven bullet proof by most of its owners, TBHP or otherwise. Spares availability is something I m researching on, currently, and FE is something which I need to bear, if I buy it.

Originally Posted by 1100D

What price do you envisage a reasonably used Stock Fortuner would set you back by?

Compare that to the Scorp being in the comfort zone of being under warranty for 4 years. During that period, that company is obligated to furnish parts for you. On a different note, they are also quite open and forthcoming about honoring warranty.

I have seen enough MHawks under warranty standing at the ASC for want of critical parts like clutch plates for more than a month while the owner is given a rattly replacement vehicle to use. M&M is certainly pro active in "listening" to customers but "addressing" complaints is a totally different issue where it has a lot to improve.

For one, there are very few pre-owned Fortuners in the market and getting one at approximately 15l INR is still a challenge. And looking at the lack of options, suddenly the XUV, maybe a year down the line when most niggles would have been sorted out, seems sensible but then, the under thigh support for its middle row is something which I feel is insufficient.

Gawd, this is difficult.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

For one, there are very few pre-owned Fortuners in the market and getting one at approximately 15l INR is still a challenge.

To add to your confusion, if you find the FE of Pajero a problem, Fortuner is no great shakes either.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by 1100D

To add to your confusion, if you find the FE of Pajero a problem, Fortuner is no great shakes either.

The Fortuner is at least 20% more fuel efficient than the Pajero going by the reports put up by their owners on TBHP.
It easily travels around 11.5 kilometers to a liter of sticky fuel in the city and 13 kilometers on the highway.
Wot say Nilanjan, et al?

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

My main concern and apprehension about buying PB, CD and DL vehicles is the possibility of them being used very roughly but their owners compared to say, a Bangalore vehicle since people in those parts are known to pimp up their rides and use/abuse them to the fullest. In fact, I have heard of Pajeros being used to plough fields, pull tractors out etc etc and washing machines being used to make lassis, at weddings.

I think your fears are exaggerated. PB & CH (Chandigarh - I think you meant CH & not CD) registered vehicles are what I would prefer over DL registered. It is true that you would find quite a number of Pajeros in rural Punjab, but the ratio is tilted towards city dwellers. So if you stick to Pajero's registered in cities like Jalandhar, Ludhiana etc, there is a good chance that you would get a well maintained one. The pros of buying a car from Punjab/Chandigarh is:

1) Its an aficionados market. People here generally are car lovers. So cars in general are prized possessions and well kept and looked after

2) Punjab is among the most important car markets. Its a small state but it already has three Mercedes' dealers. Fourth one coming up. So given the high volume of cars bought & sold, this keeps the second hand car rates in check.

3) Good roads & non metro like environs are better for the car. Yeah the traffic is an increasing problem, but it still is so much better than a metro. I could stretch the clutch of a Safari for 110,000 kms. I am sure, I wouldn't have manage even half of that, had I done those kms in Delhi, what with stop & go traffic at every step of the way, and worst of all on a flyover

4) Large population of personnel from armed forces & doctors. From my experience, service men, for reasons that can be easily understood, are the best in terms of buying a car from. And there is a huge base of ex-servicemen in and around Punjab & Chandigarh. I feel the same way for doctors - though with a somewhat decreasing tendency.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The Fortuner is at least 20% more fuel efficient than the Pajero going by the reports put up by their owners on TBHP.
It easily travels around 11.5 kilometers to a liter of sticky fuel in the city and 13 kilometers on the highway.
Wot say Nilanjan, et al?

I don't drive in a very fuel efficient manner, but those figures are easily achievable - and are being achieved by forum members.

I get 11.5-12.5 on my highway trips, and around 10.5 in the city.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

I think your fears are exaggerated. PB & CH (Chandigarh - I think you meant CH & not CD) registered vehicles are what I would prefer over DL registered.
1) Its an aficionados market. People here generally are car lovers. So cars in general are prized possessions and well kept and looked after

2) Punjab is among the most important car markets. Its a small state but it already has three Mercedes' dealers. Fourth one coming up. So given the high volume of cars bought & sold, this keeps the second hand car rates in check.

4) Large population of personnel from armed forces & doctors. From my experience, service men, for reasons that can be easily understood, are the best in terms of buying a car from. And there is a huge base of ex-servicemen in and around Punjab & Chandigarh. I feel the same way for doctors - though with a somewhat decreasing tendency.

Hmmmm....interesting insight I must say rrsteer.
One of the reasons for my apprehension is also the percieved "macho" culture of the general populace and the SUV owners in these areas who do a lot of stunts with their vehicles resulting in pre mature wear and tear of them. What is your opinion about that?

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Hmmmm....interesting insight I must say rrsteer.
One of the reasons for my apprehension is also the percieved "macho" culture of the general populace and the SUV owners in these areas who do a lot of stunts with their vehicles resulting in pre mature wear and tear of them. What is your opinion about that?

The macho culture (though more of show) you refer to is very truly a part of the upbringing of many youth here. And you will certainly find a relatively higher share of bling cars being put on the dock. But I feel people with a more than average understanding of cars can quickly sort out and differentiate the bling from the real. And these cars are Safari & Scorpio variety- especially Safari.

And I must tell you, if you are in the market for cars like Mitsubishi Pajero, Merc W124, you should look at the second hand market of Jalandhar, Ludhiana, Chandigarh. My advice would be to atleast have a look around in Chandigarh.

[Ricky_63]

Pajeros in good nick are not hard to find. Except be weary of re-wound odometers. The profile of the seller should tell you enough about the car. But be very sure that for a good vehicle you need to pay top dollar. That is where most people slip up. Pajero, even on date has a cult following. I personally know of someone who picked up a brilliant example for 11L then spent a lac on it for tyres, battery, suspension bushes etc. The car is brilliantly kept. Mind you this is a 2006 GLX not a SFX.

Happy hunting

[swiftnfurious]

I personally will buy a used Fortuner at rates which I can afford. As you said, I don't find a new Fotuner VFM @ 21L+, but if I can grab one at 15-16L, then it's a great buy [to me]. If I need something that can last a whole 10 years, I will NOT think twice over a Japanese car. Though a lot of people have voted for the used Pajero, am NOT sure it's going to be cheap to maintain like a Fortuner[based on t-bhp ownership reports]. I have read people spending like 20,000/- for a 40K service or so, hence I would NOT be comfortable owning a Pajero.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

The stock ICE is not that good. A good one with navigation, with changed speakers and addition of amp, sub etc. can make a significant difference. One can also add TMPS, a nice ABC (alti/baro/compass) etc.

The trim can be drastically improve with better quality leather and by replacing the cheap looking faux wood panels. A black or mahogany leather + titanium or aluminum brush trim can make it look significantly better.

I know you browse a lot of international Fortuner forums, do you have a link by any chance of such a modified Fortuner? Would love to take a look at it! I consider the interiors of Fortuner spartan, so I would NOT mind spending some bucks to make it look rich, if I ever buy one.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

My advice would be to atleast have a look around in Chandigarh.

I certainly will, once it is decided to look for one. At the moment the cost of spares and their availability is the point of my research.

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

Pajeros in good nick are not hard to find. Except be weary of re-wound odometers. The profile of the seller should tell you enough about the car.

Since you have owned 2 Pajeros in the past and sold both of them, can you tell me the reason most people sell the Pajero please? For example, it is difficult to find a 2010 Fortuner in the market while there are 2010 Pajeros available.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I personally will buy a used Fortuner at rates which I can afford. As you said, I don't find a new Fotuner VFM @ 21L+, but if I can grab one at 15-16L, then it's a great buy [to me]. If I need something that can last a whole 10 years, I will NOT think twice over a Japanese car. Though a lot of people have voted for the used Pajero, am NOT sure it's going to be cheap to maintain like a Fortuner[based on t-bhp ownership reports]. I have read people spending like 20,000/- for a 40K service or so, hence I would NOT be comfortable owning a Pajero.

Which is the exact reason I m still researching on its parts prices and upkeep. You see, in the same thread, Ashish, whose uncle is a mine owner and owns a Pajero, has quoted the following repair costs.

Originally Posted by ashis89

Talked to my uncle. He says the service costs are in the 5-6k range in every 10k kms. He also does a lots of long distance trips, some in very bad roads.

Vaary Confused at the moment I must say.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I know you browse a lot of international Fortuner forums, do you have a link by any chance of such a modified Fortuner? Would love to take a look at it! I consider the interiors of Fortuner spartan, so I would NOT mind spending some bucks to make it look rich, if I ever buy one.

Lots of pics of upgraded Fortuners e.g. bullbars, shocks, lift, tyres, better underbody protection etc. Just Google - or check out the SA 4X4 Community Forum.

Regarding interiors: I usually go to interactive websites of premium vehicles and play around with different trim options. E.g. go to the international Range Rover or Aston Martin website, and select different trim options (colours etc.). Will give you an idea of how different leather/trim combos look, and how they fit with the vehicle colour.

You can then take screenshots of different options and make some slides to finally decide how you want to customize things - and also to show to your modification vendor.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Ricky_63

Happy hunting

Hey Ricky_63, would you mind sharing the service costs of the Pajeros that you owned till date? It might be helpful for n.devdath to decide.