[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Gentle Giant

Hi Devdath,

I currently face somewhat the same dilemma. I am exactly a month away from my Leh trip. I just sold a year and a half old Safari (2WD). Anyway, Just yesterday I test-drove 2 Pajero's, 1 Montero, 1 Endy, 1 Captiva. Phew! I spent more than half my Sunday doing this, albeit with tons of enthusiasm. The Endy and Captiva were ruled out as both had crossed the 100,00 odo mark. The Montero was a black coloured 2003 vehicle. The odo read apprx. 60,000 kms odd. The vehicle was ill-maintained. While it appealed from far sheerly cos of its size and the badge it wore, after stepping inside I soon found out that the carpet was losing colour. It looked like the vehicle had probably suffered from some water-logging. Also, all the exterior panels were re-painted and was a shoddy job performed. Next test-driven was the 2007 Pajero. This was dual-tone blue-silver one. There were visible dents on the doors, slightly faded colour. The interiors were ok. The odo read 80,000 kms odd. This one had a sun-moon roof and the music system was worth more than a lac. The ride was very bad. The middle row seats rattled and it felt like a hundred rattle snakes were occupying the middle row. This one didn't appeal much to me either. Then came the 2008 Pajero (bull-dog shaped is what the dealer termed it as) The one which has flared arches. It was a dual-tone, a limestone and silver. Now this one caught my fancy as the exteriors were immaculately clean, though I could make out a couple of panel were re-painted but a good job done of matching and finishing with the original paint. The interiors felt fresh and welcoming. Leather felt and smelled nice and clean. The odo read approx. 40,000 kms odd. The ride was very smooth too. All in all, this one gave me the rush and the 'feel good factor' within. The owner is quoting 13.5 and since I have my heart set on this mean-machine, I called the dealer again today to make my offer. I made an offer of 11 lacs and the dealer tells me that he has an offer just today, which stand at 12 lacs. I just do not know what to do. After reading the various posts here, now its got me thinking if going in for the Pajero is a wise thing to do - or not! I need to make a decision before this month ends as I want to use this vehicle for atleast 10 days before my final date of travel, which is - 15th June. So what do I do?

The Pajero is a good buy, if

. You do not usually travel at lesser than 130 km/h on highways. I do not, as most of the highways from Delhi have a speed limit of 90 km/h. And in the hills you can barely cross 70 and that too on straight stretches.
. You want the massive low end torque in the hills. This is where the Pajero outshines the competition. You can merry chug along through mud, with no clutch slip.
. You want excellent visibility, again one of the best.
. You are willing to accept an FE of between 9 and 10 km/L in plains.
. You want a good ride. The competition is no match for its ride quality.
. You want disk breaks on all four wheels.

Just a word of cation. In case you want to take a per-owned vehicle on a long drive to and in hills, get the vehicle thoroughly checked, and if possible
. Change all the rubber hoses
. Change all the fluids - engine, gear box, both differentials and brake
. Change any rubber parts in the brake system
. Change the brake pads.
. Get the clutch checked and change the clutch plate if it is more than 70% worn out
. If the tyres are near the end of their life get a good set of tyres preferably ones with a chunky tread. These are excellent for mud, slush and loose pebbles.

In short make sure that all the consumable items (which can bring misery if they fail) are changed.

[Speed Pujari]

I wud recommend neither to buy pajero or a scorpio. Scorpio for obvious reasons. Why not wait for some time and check out the duster. This is a highly anticipated vehicle and m sure the build quality to be sturdy unlike others.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

I wud recommend neither to buy pajero or a scorpio. Scorpio for obvious reasons. Why not wait for some time and check out the duster. This is a highly anticipated vehicle and m sure the build quality to be sturdy unlike others.

Duster is a soft roader, and cannot take the abuse that the other SUV (Pajero, Scorpio, Safari, Fortuner etc) can. If I am not wrong it does not have a "Low" ratio transfer case. It is extremely popular in France as it can go on indifferent rural roads and can navigate through mild slush and snow, but in a tight situation it will get bogged down.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

I feel that 15 lacs for a 2 year old 40k km run single owner well maintained vehicle is a good deal and good deals are always tough to find, but I m in no hurry.

I do not know Bombay vehicles a lot but yes, I have tickled my contacts in Delhi to find me a good example when they see one.

I think you are being optimistic

My Sept 2010 Fortuner has done 31K km, and is settling down. I paid 23.8L for it OTR - I would not dream of selling it for < 19-20L unless it is a distress sale. In fact, it takes a few tens of thousands of kms to settle down the vehicle and get used to it so that you can start pushing it (or become one with the machine). I am looking at it from a 200000 km horizon, and from that perspective I have just got started.

You are very right about the Pajero/need for overtaking power. It is very easy to overtake on the highway with a Fortuner. I have driven on the highways extensively with my SX4, and the maneuvers had to be thought through and then carefully executed. With the Tuna b/w the 1400 - 3300RPM range, press the paddle and you are through. The high beams are another strong point for night driving. I just took out my SX4 for a drive, and the oncoming highbeams and the lack of projector lights were killing me - felt that I was semi blind. I did Bhadra/River Tern Lodge to Sarjapur Road in 5 hours yesterday evening/night (starting at 7 pm from Bhadra), and the drive reinforced how the the Tuna makes highway night driving (2 lane/4 lane / single lane) a breeze.

[F150]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I think you are being optimistic

My Sept 2010 Fortuner has done 31K km, and is settling down. I paid 23.8L for it OTR - I would not dream of selling it for < 19-20L unless it is a distress sale.

Well the rationale behind the figure was 2 yrs = Deduct 20%. There is newer model in the showroom, so this vehicle is a generation older, deduct 5% ?

No offence meant.

That comes to about 18L. Even if we exclude the 5%, it comes to 19L.

Yeah agree with you 15L is a little optimistic.

What is the current IDV on your insurance policy if you dont mind sharing ? This should indicate the exact value.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Duster is a soft roader, and cannot take the abuse that the other SUV (Pajero, Scorpio, Safari, Fortuner etc) can.

You hit the nail on the head Aroy.

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I think you are being optimistic

My Sept 2010 Fortuner has done 31K km, and is settling down. I paid 23.8L for it OTR - I would not dream of selling it for < 19-20L unless it is a distress sale. In fact, it takes a few tens of thousands of kms to settle down the vehicle and get used to it so that you can start pushing it (or become one with the machine). I am looking at it from a 200000 km horizon, and from that perspective I have just got started.

You are correct but how many out there think on your lines? Will you believe there is a Fortuner I will inspect tomorrow which is a June 2011 model done just 9k kms for sale for 22L negotiable? Very few people buy vehicles for what we TBHPians do Nilanjan.

Originally Posted by F150

Well the rationale behind the figure was 2 yrs = Deduct 20%. There is newer model in the showroom, so this vehicle is a generation older, deduct 5% ?

No offence meant.

That comes to about 18L. Even if we exclude the 5%, it comes to 19L.

You are correct F150, and that is why 15L is what I m looking at. You see, I m in no hurry since Hariya is doing his duties perfectly fine and hence I will plonk my money ONLY when I find;
a) a Superb deal or
b) when I m completely fed up/bored/done with Hariya.

Okay, here goes today's update.

I had been to see that May 2010 vehicle. While the engine seemed to be ok, there are a few things I didn't like about it.
1. The plastic rivets on the front mudguard cladding were visible.
2. The alignment between the front bumper, headlights and the fender was not perfect. Upon inquiring, I was told that an auto had hit the front bumper and the damage was rectified costing 31k INR. The repair was not well done.
3. The front windshield had been replaced but the owner failed to agree to it saying he was not aware of it.
4. The front passenger airbag slot was not a perfect fit. It looked like it was either coming out or was put back after having come out. The owner, again, was not aware of any such airbag deployment.
5. The turn indicator glass on the right side ORVM was broken.
6. The rear tip of the right headlamp was broken.

I took the vehicle out for a short drive and it seemed ok, just ok, didn't feel as tight as I expected it to.

Now, I need to cross check its service history at Nandi Toyota so that I know what it has been through. Can anyone help me here?

I had also been to Nandi Toyota today evening, to take a look at the new Fortuner, to compare it with what I had seen and somehow, the Fortuner seemed very plain jane to me.

What was shocking was the fact that the 4wd variant does not even cruise control which the 2wd AT has. Toyota is surely fleecing us in skimping on such things.

So, a new Fortuner at 27.xx lac OTR Blore is completely out of the scene for me, even if I can afford it. The search for a pre owned piece at a steal continues.

[nilanjanray]

Seems there are too many things that are fishy with that vehicle.

Regarding cruise control: not sure how useful it is in India. In any case, a new Fortuner has become too expensive...

[F150]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Seems there are too many things that are fishy with that vehicle.

Regarding cruise control: not sure how useful it is in India.

You should drive on NE1, kishangarh expressway and roads till chittorgarh.
Most roads in gujarat, towards delhi or mumbai,depending on the time of the day.
I so wished my car had cruise control.
Agree with you though, very few roads where it can be put to proper use.
Such good roads are only going to increase.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Seems there are too many things that are fishy with that vehicle.

Regarding cruise control: not sure how useful it is in India. In any case, a new Fortuner has become too expensive...

Yes Nilanjan, also when I asked the owner to give me the its registration number so that I could get its history checked, he told me he'd call me but yet hasn't done so.
I m glad that you too agree that the new Fortuner has become, simply too expensive, to be worth it.

Originally Posted by F150

You should drive on NE1, kishangarh expressway and roads till chittorgarh.

There you go, correctly. Also, when paying 20 lac INR for a vehicle, expecting at least some features like cruise control is only natural, no?

[n.devdath]

After a lot of deliberation, discussion, views and opinions, here is what the situation currently stands at:

1. Brand new Scorpio VLX 4wd:- Rejected. Due to M&M's spare part issues, Scorpio 4wd owners comments and negative feedback and my own experience about its cheap plastics, suspension bushes which seem to wear out at every service, and the fact that I doubt it will last me a good 10 years.

2. Pre Owned Pajero:- Rejected. Due to its underpowered engine, archaic interiors and its production being stopped by the end of this year, which will automatically take the cost of its spares to non affordable levels, sooner or later.

3. Brand new Toyota Fortuner:- This continues to remain a contender, with an opponent, The Skoda Yeti Elegance 4wd.

The Fortuner is hard ignore. I had quite a few issues with it on the extended road test I took it to and am yet to take a second one but am sure that those issues, for the most part, will remain. In spite of that, the longevity of the Fortuner, its affordable maintenance costs and reliability cannot be ignored.

4. Mahindra XUV 5oo:- Rejected. This was suggested by GTO and a few others. Rejected. Due to the continuing niggles on the vehicle, rattly plastics that seem to fall off within 30k kms of usage and most of all, ever increasing M&M service costs. I can replace fallen plastics but M&M spares are a perennial issue now, especially when it comes to small spares, cosmetic in nature.

5. Skoda Laura:- Rejected. While this continues to be one of my dream sedans today, it was rejected due to its sibling, the Yeti, being more practical, rugged and reliable.

Now comes the new entrant: A brand new Skoda Yeti 4wd Elegance.

After a close look at the car, and its performance statistics on TBHP and the world over, this is the ONLY contender to the Fortuner now, and I assume, will continue to remain so, till I sign the dotted line.

Inputs and ideas looked forward to and appreciated.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Now comes the new entrant: A brand new Skoda Yeti 4wd Elegance.

After a close look at the car, and its performance statistics on TBHP and the world over, this is the ONLY contender to the Fortuner now, and I assume, will continue to remain so, till I sign the dotted line.

Inputs and ideas looked forward to and appreciated.

Consider maybe the Pajero Sport?
Refreshed Captiva?
Santa Fe?
Koleos?
Nissan X Trail?

If you are willing to make a leap from 19 to 20 lacs on road for the Yeti, to 27 or 28 lacs for a Fortuner, then you might as well consider the Captiva, X Trail, and Santa Fe as well!

I can tell you that in terms of plushness, the Santa Fe, Koleos, X Trail and Captiva trump the Fortuner any day. The Koleos and Captiva and Santa Fe I think also give you the AT boxes. So they are all worthy contenders.

If anyone is willing to pay 28 lacs in road BLR for a Fortuner which going by its international pricing, should not cost more than 20 lacs on road, then all these other contenders deserve some consideration at least.

To me, of all these, the X Trail is the best bet. Had it been available a tad cheaper I would have bought it. It is 29 odd lacs in India. The same thing costs 20 lacs ish in Australia, UK etc.

I cannot and will not consider paying so much more in my home country for a vehicle which costs that much less abroad.

Incidentally why not the top spec 2WD Duster?

[F150]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

After a lot of deliberation, discussion, views and opinions, here is what the situation currently stands at:

3. Brand new Toyota Fortuner:- This continues to remain a contender, with an opponent, The Skoda Yeti Elegance 4wd.

The Fortuner is hard ignore. In spite of that, the longevity of the Fortuner, its affordable maintenance costs and reliability cannot be ignored.


Now comes the new entrant: A brand new Skoda Yeti 4wd Elegance.

After a close look at the car, and its performance statistics on TBHP and the world over, this is the ONLY contender to the Fortuner now, and I assume, will continue to remain so, till I sign the dotted line.

Inputs and ideas looked forward to and appreciated.

The price difference between YETI and Fortuner is pretty wide. But a TOYOTA will outlive a SKODA any day. Affordability of maintaining a TFORT is pretty cheap, refer Guderian's thread. I sometimes wonder if his TFORT is cheaper to own than my swift if we exclude the fuel costs.

Add to that, maintaining a SKODA post its warranty period is gonna cost you a bomb,if any issues arise.

Are you getting any good deals on YETI ?

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Consider maybe the Pajero Sport?
Refreshed Captiva?
Santa Fe?
Koleos?
Nissan X Trail?

The trucks or SUVs listed above are not really known for their 4x4 prowess,except the Pajero Sport and may be the XTRAIL to a certain extent.

Isnt the pajero sport costlier than the TFORT ?

If you are willing to make a leap from 19 to 20 lacs on road for the Yeti, to 27 or 28 lacs for a Fortuner

20 -27 L is a very wide range. I think a good discount should close the deal in the favor of the YETI.

Incidentally why not the top spec 2WD Duster?

Why is the Duster not in the list of contenders ?

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Consider maybe the Pajero Sport?
Refreshed Captiva?
Santa Fe?
Koleos?
Nissan X Trail?

The Captiva doesn't appeal to me due to its iffy handling and the lack of a 4wd/awd option on its manual variant.

The Santa Fe is certainly a good contender but I do not like its looks, and it is even more expensive than a Fortuner.

The Koleos, too quirky looking and expensive.

The X-Trail. Now that is the ideal vehicle here but its spares availability and cost are major concern at the moment. Also, its meagre numbers on the roads might be a problem in acquiring spares from the open market as well.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

If you are willing to make a leap from 19 to 20 lacs on road for the Yeti, to 27 or 28 lacs for a Fortuner...

I m not. I m trying to get a deal on one of the 2011 Fortuners if possible, from Bangalore dealers which would be comparable to the Yeti's price. Also, all the other contenders, to me, are pretty much the same as the Yeti, or worse.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Incidentally why not the top spec 2WD Duster?

I either want a 4wd or an AWD. No 2wds for me, this time.

Originally Posted by F150

The price difference between YETI and Fortuner is pretty wide. But a TOYOTA will outlive a SKODA any day. Affordability of maintaining a TFORT is pretty cheap, refer Guderian's thread. I sometimes wonder if his TFORT is cheaper to own than my swift if we exclude the fuel costs.

Which is one of its strong selling points, for me. You see, buying something this expensive already has me in tatters and I cannot afford another car for the next decade now so if this car becomes progressively expensive to maintain, it is a very tough situation for me.

Originally Posted by F150

Add to that, maintaining a SKODA post its warranty period is gonna cost you a bomb,if any issues arise.

Which is one of my major concerns but off late, manual Skodas with the 2.0CR engine have been performing decently is what the reports say.

Originally Posted by F150

Are you getting any good deals on YETI ?

Yes, a decent 8-10% discount.

Originally Posted by F150

Isnt the pajero sport costlier than the TFORT ?

Yes, by a couple of lacs.

Originally Posted by F150

20 -27 L is a very wide range. I think a good discount should close the deal in the favor of the YETI.

It most probably will, unless I am able to haggle a deal for those older model Fortuners.

Originally Posted by F150

Why is the Duster not in the list of contenders ?

2WD Saar, not for me.

[shankar.balan]

Hi

1. Captiva - iffy handling? I m surprised! I have driven it and while it may not be as much of a point and shoot as a Yeti, it is certainly a better handler than a Fortuner. Spacious, much lighter feel, creamy engine and with AWD it goes most places too.
2. Fortuner - older model + discount? Again I m surprised. Given the way the Fortuner is selling and the wait list there is, do you really think they will part with 7-8 lacs by way of discount to match the Yeti's price? I seriously have my doubts. Mostly because in general discounts are not commonly achieved from Toyota and lets not forget the demand for the Fortuner and its waiting list and their apparent inability to keep up!
3. Seriously consider an X Trail - this also gives you the best of both worlds and is a couple or three sizes bigger than the Yeti. Very nice un-ostentatious car, especially in its 2005-2011 avatar. The newer one is too blingy by half.

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The Captiva doesn't appeal to me due to its iffy handling and the lack of a 4wd/awd option on its manual variant.
The X-Trail. Now that is the ideal vehicle here but its spares availability and cost are major concern at the moment. Also, its meagre numbers on the roads might be a problem in acquiring spares from the open market as well.
I m not. I m trying to get a deal on one of the 2011 Fortuners if possible, from Bangalore dealers which would be comparable to the Yeti's price. Also, all the other contenders, to me, are pretty much the same as the Yeti, or worse.
I either want a 4wd or an AWD. No 2wds for me, this time.


It most probably will, unless I am able to haggle a deal for those older model Fortuners.
2WD Saar, not for me.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

The Captiva doesn't appeal to me due to its iffy handling and the lack of a 4wd/awd option on its manual variant.

Captiva is an amazing handler, i have driven behind and ahead of it on a flat creamy highway and it almost always amazes me with the kind of speeds it does without much ado and drama.

On bad roads i have no idea, as i don't dare to take my Civic in those areas.

The only area i did not like Captiva is it does not come with Manual AWD option. Is there any rumor that the new captiva will have manual AWD as an option?

What Nilanjan says is correct, you might not get Fortuner at all, i just did a carwale search and the only Fortuners that are listed there are from Dealer itself, possibly a test drive car. None of the other buyers are even thinking of selling it (at-least from the carwale thats what it seems, which i know is not fully accurate). Furthermore the ones listed have not done any major miles, there is one 2012 model done 5500 Kms, wonder why dealer is trying to sell it off?