[cotterpin]

@Black Rider:Kindly confirm your odo reading.You need to attach a mulitmeter and check how much it dips during crank up.If it comes to 09v-10v,then the battery should be kaput.If the ODO shows too high a reading then kindly check the starter Motor,solenoid and the carbon brushes.There are high chances that the carbon brushes are worn out.Hope it helps.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by black_rider

Service center guys wanted to take apart starter motor, without even checking the battery. I walked out of there. Can experts suggest me a course of action, what I should do to get to the real problem and not get fleeced in the process?

When was the battery last replaced? Anything over 3 years, then high chances of battery going kaput. An easy test would be to switch on the headlamps and then crank the engine. If while cranking the headlamps go dim/ out, then change the battery. If the headlamps remain strong enough then it could be started motor problem.

[black_rider]

Originally Posted by cotterpin

@Black Rider:Kindly confirm your odo reading.You need to attach a mulitmeter and check how much it dips during crank up.If it comes to 09v-10v,then the battery should be kaput.If the ODO shows too high a reading then kindly check the starter Motor,solenoid and the carbon brushes.There are high chances that the carbon brushes are worn out.Hope it helps.

Odo stands at 131k+ . Thats a good suggestion, checking voltage drop during cranking. Starter motor can be checked after battery has been verified. That's the thing I do not like about ASCs, they want to pull your car in at slight hint of trouble, and maybe give it back with a "starter motor repair" bill, after just cleaning battery terminals. Anyways, who gets to know if the problem is fixed or not, as its not a ON/OFF situation; my car does start, just that "sometimes" it takes three or four attempts of ignition.

Originally Posted by saket77

When was the battery last replaced? Anything over 3 years, then high chances of battery going kaput. An easy test would be to switch on the headlamps and then crank the engine. If while cranking the headlamps go dim/ out, then change the battery. If the headlamps remain strong enough then it could be started motor problem.

Battery is almost 3 year old Amaron Flo. I remember the radio, cabin blower fan, headlights turning off during cranking even when the battery was new. I thought that was the case with most of the cars.

I will get the battery terminals cleaned (although they look pretty clean to me now), voltage drop checked during cranking and then proceed further.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by black_rider

Battery is almost 3 year old Amaron Flo. I remember the radio, cabin blower fan, headlights turning off during cranking even when the battery was new. I thought that was the case with most of the cars.

Radio and blower fan do switch off while cranking, but headlamps do not.

[cotterpin]

@Black Rider:131k+ is too high reading and starter motor,carbon brushes needs to be checked/serviced.A good indepedent mechanic will do it for a reaonable cost.I feel the best alternative for a battery problem isolation is if you arrange for a loaner battery from your friend may be.Run the car on it for some days and you can very easily isolate the battery.Nevertheless,I would still suggest you to get yoursolenoid,starter and brushes serviced and rest be assured.

[black_rider]

Originally Posted by saket77

Radio and blower fan do switch off while cranking, but headlamps do not.

Thanks Saket77 but checked in my Santro and another i20, headlamps too are completely cut off during cranking, parking lamps stay lit for both.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by black_rider

Thanks Saket77 but checked in my Santro and another i20, headlamps too are completely cut off during cranking, parking lamps stay lit for both.

May be that is the way Hyundai designed but normally no accessory is ON when cranking as the starter motor draws a lot of current from the battery so any accessory or blower will be additional load on the battery and starter motor.

Anurag.

[AlterEgo1]

Background Story: Car stopped all of a sudden without any warning. Luckily I was in a pump at that time, and i was able to get it pushed to the side. I tried some basic troubleshoots such as push starting, cranking while revving etc with no luck. Since it is a diesel car and the fuel was little low I suspected air in the fuel system and did some bleeding. Still she didnt start. Battery looked okay and i didn't want to drain it. The only problem I remember in my car in the past one week were:

a) Car failed to start a few times the last week until i cranked her 3-4 times.
b) Slightly fluctuating RPM when i am idling her.

This car i was driving at the time was a 7 year old fiesta nearing 90,000km , and i have always send her to ford service centers. But this incident happened pretty far from any service centers and the nearest ford service center asked for a 4k towing charge, which i felt is absurd to pay. Also i am new in this city and i dont have any peers to ask help. So completely confused whats up with my car, I called up justdial for a nearby mechanic. And in an hour some mechanic dude came, tried something here and there with no luck and said he needs to tow it to his garage. I was reluctant, but since i had no other options at that time i accepted.

The guy said he will scan it and tell me whats up the next day. I got a call following day saying I have some faulty sensors. Now, I know that my car never had a check engine light on ever and i wasnt expecting this problem to come up all of a sudden. And that too he said my crank-sensor and cam-sensor have to be replaced. He also send me pictures of the sensors. The camshaft sensor had a cracked tip! I have no idea how that happened. And the cranksensor looked good, but he said it was getting very hot quickly. His logic was that after he cleaned these sensors the car started without any check engine lights. But the engine lights were blinking every 3-4 minutes or so.

I have a few questions already:
1) I know that the crank sensor is located near the flywheel and it might break if it hits it somehow. But why would a cam sensor crack its tip? Is it also located near the fly wheel?
2) If these sensors have problem arent the check engine lights supposed to be ON all the time? The mechanic said it blinked once in a while.

Anyway I budged to his reasoning and said okay to get my sensors replaced. The car was given back to me two days later, but to my horror the check engine lights were ON! He said it takes a few days for the engine lights to go off because he erased the codes to reset the ECU and it takes a while for the car to adjust!! I have never heard of anything like that ever. But i again budged to his reasoning because he sounded very convincing :( I paid the money for oil change, wheel balancing and other services that he did and said I'll pay for the sensor changes later. He looked alarmed, but I made him go because I was already really angry.

Another Question:
3) Does it actually take a few days for the ECU to adjust after sensor changes? Is that ever a possibility?

The next day morning, I tried to start my car again and just like I thought, it didnt start. The same problem again. I called the mechanic again and asked for a full refund, but he asked me to give him a second chance. And i again said okay to that. The car was towed to his garage again.

In a few days he called me and said that my car is fixed. I drove to the garage to check whether everything is fine and this time the car felt perfect. No check engine lights and no missing in the accelerator. Steady RPM. Car felt perfect. He said that the problem was in the injector and that he got all four injectors cleaned. I was happy. Although I am still not confident whether the sensor changes were required I paid him the rest of the money. I drove the car well for a month. I was able to take her to 160 like when she was younger and i felt very happy.

Fast forward to today: My car failed to start until I cranked her thrice when i was in a parking lot after a 20km drive. My brother told that he had a similar issue few days back after a similar length drive. After it starts again she is good. When my car is idling I am seeing a very little fluctuation in my rpm every 10 seconds or so. What can this indicate? Can it indicate that the same problem is going to happen again? I am worried.

4) What do you think was my cars problem? Injector cleaning definitely helped because after that the car worked well for a month. But do you suspect anything else from your experience?
5) I have the older sensor with me. How can i check its functionality without putting it back in the car?

Sorry for making a huge thread. Thank you in advance for your help.

PS: Dont ask to sell her because she is my oldest car and I love her like a man love a woman

[black_rider]

Originally Posted by cotterpin

...Nevertheless,I would still suggest you to get yoursolenoid,starter and brushes serviced and rest be assured.

I had the battery checked first, it was A-OK. Got starter serviced at authorized service centre for a total of ~650 rupees and all is back to normal. Thanks for your quick and accurate responses.

[luxo_barge]

Few days back, I left my car's reading lamp on and the battery got drained. I wasn't in town and my brother tried to jump start the car using cables and pushing the car but it didn't start, They sent the battery to a guy, who charged it. The car ran fine for a day until there was juice in the battery, after that it got shut off while running.

Tried to push the car, it started but however after 2 mins the RPM dropped to 0 and the car felt breathless and got shut off.

The car was serviced 3 months back and battery was changed around 6 months back.

What could be wrong? I'm yet to take a leave and get it checked my a mech. but the guy who charged my battery he said the alternator is faulty and he can get it fixed, but I ignored him.

[Sudipto-S-Team]

If a vehicle does not even have a battery in it, it should start with a big push and an experienced driver who knows how to do it. If it is not starting in this way then there is some other problem in the car. Possibly the self. The battery may not be the root of the problem.

If it is an Exide battery and you have doubts about its health call Batmobile 180018011111. Their service is free and available within city limit from 7 am to 12 midnight. They will check the battery and give you an opinion on its health. If it requires servicing/replacement they will take it to the workshop and give you a service battery (depending upon availability).

I am curious to know what brand of car it is.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team

If a vehicle does not even have a battery in it, it should start with a big push and an experienced driver who knows how to do it.

This is partly true and I would advise strongly not to it, unless you really know what you are doing! I wouldn't say it is a myth, but it is more a carry over from the days before car electronics.

So, if your car has no electronics at all, you might consider it. But most cars do have lots of electronics these days. So quite a few cars will simply not start because some components need a steady uninterrupted power supply, e.g. An engine immobilizer system. Many car sensors simply wont work well without an uninterrupted steady power supply.

More importantly, your battery is effectively a huge buffer for Voltage and all sort of transient spikes. You could actually blow up the electronics if you try to start them without a battery. And yes, there will be plenty of people claiming they have been doing it for donkey years, but just because you get lucky doesn't mean it's a good practice.

Jeroen


Jeroen

[Sudipto-S-Team]

I was not trying to suggest that people should take off their batteries and start their cars by push start only :-) Though I might sometimes behave or look like one, in reality I am not as stupid as that :-)

I mentioned it merely to drive home the point that if a car is not starting even with a big push it means the battery may not be the root problem, as luxo_barge is suggesting or assuming in his post.

There is a particular context against which I made the statement.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team

If a vehicle does not even have a battery in it, it should start with a big push and an experienced driver who knows how to do it.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

...a carry over from the days before car electronics.

Jeroen's correct, Sudipto. Most ECU-equipped cars, petrol or diesel, will never start unless a battery with some charge is connected (even though the charge may not be enough to crank the starter).

OTOH, remember the old Amby 1.5L diesel as an example? That was an engine that could be push-started without any battery being connected, and would run all day without a battery too!

[Aroy]

In the older cars - Ambassador and Fiat, there was no alternator, instead a DC dynamo, which could supply enough power to the spark plugs, that is why these cars could be push started without batteries (I have done it a number of times). With modern cars it would not work.

Modern cars will not start without battery (even an weak one will do), as the ignition system and the ECU require power, which an alternator cannot supply as it requires excitation current.