[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

We had a similar problem with an Etios in the family. Randomly would not start , jump starting would work fine. After lot of trial and error was traced to a faulty switch for the boot lamp, which meant the boot lamp was on all the time and hence was draining battery. Not something to easily verify also.

There isn't a boot lamp in my car but will surely have the interior lights,
reverse sensors and auto cop checked out. These are the only aftermarket systems i have had added that maybe (I'm more inclined towards the autocop) causing this issue!

What confuses me is that the engine turns over perfectly suggesting that the starter/solenoid is not at fault. Thanks for you input!

Originally Posted by Jeroen

So are you saying that when making a jump start it starts normal? If that is the case I would still suspect the battery and or the various electrical connector on the battery terminals and earth. Check if they are all tight and no sign of corrosion

Where do you put the jumper cables? Both on the wire clamps on the battery terminals? Or the earth somewhere on the chassis?

Jeroen.

Yes the car starts up immediately when bump started.
I had the battery changed about 2 months back. All connectors on the wiring loom side were changed due to minor corrosion (Positive , negative and the earthing connector). The earthing is on the chassis inside the engine bay.)

What confuses me is that the engine turns over suggesting that the starter/solenoid is not at fault.

One correction i would like to make-I never had the car jump started.
The battery is new. Had it checked at the exide shop for discharging/acid level - all okay.

I would gather some people around and have the car pushed and hence i should have said pushed/bump started. (it would start immediately-the car would have hardly moved 2-3 feet)

Sorry for the confusion!

[SS-Traveller]

How many days did the car remain parked before it failed to start?

Check the connectors and cables to the starter motor for corrosion and/or loose connections as Jeroen advised.

Check battery voltage between terminals when the car refuses to start.

[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

How many days did the car remain parked before it failed to start?

The car was parked below my office.I took it to work so say it was parked
for 6-7 hrs.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Check the connectors and cables to the starter motor for corrosion and/or loose connections as Jeroen advised.

Check battery voltage between terminals when the car refuses to start.

That's next on my list!
Hope its one of these because it bugging me since the second time it happened.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by hrbheda

Yes the car starts up immediately when bump started.
I had the battery changed about 2 months back. All connectors on the wiring loom side were changed due to minor corrosion (Positive , negative and the earthing connector). The earthing is on the chassis inside the engine bay.)

What confuses me is that the engine turns over suggesting that the starter/solenoid is not at fault.

One correction i would like to make-I never had the car jump started.
!

Ok, that's good, we are getting somewhere. To your point, if it does start easily when bumpstarted we need to rethink.

In order for a (modern) car to start a number of simple critiria needs to be met:

The starter needs to get sufficient voltage to crank the engine at sufficient RPM. There might be a problem with the starter, either the starter motor itself, mayb brushes or a mechnical problem. You see it does crank, does it/feel sound like it cranks normal?

You might want to check, if your car has one, the RPM counter on the dashoard. Most engines will be cranked at around 700-900rpm. Or use an enxternal device to check crankshaft rotation.

I once encountered a starter motor that had become half dismounted. So even though it was cranking the engine, it did so at a very odd angle and it was just loosing torgue.

Do check the battery voltage, before and whilst cranking. Just about any modern car, needs a healthy voltage, not just to crank but also to power the car's electronics. When you start the battery voltage will always dip. When you bumpstart obviously it wont. Ideally you might want to measure the ECU voltage, as close to the ECU as you can get whilst cranking. That would rule out any electrical wiring problems.

I would still suggest to disconnct every major wire on the battery and to the startermotor. Check for corrossion, poor connections. Bend and flex every part of the cable, especially near the connectors. You are looking for anything that could cause a high resistance.

I understand the problem is intermittent. Those are always a PITA to troubleshoot. Good luck. Let us know what you find out.

Jeroen

[Aroy]

As the car starts with very little push, the problem may be either in the electrical systems or in the ECU.

Here are a few diagnostic tips.

. If the starter is rotating the engine, then it is fine. Just to ensure that the motor is not draining the battery, check the voltage with starter on. If it is below the recommended, then, the ECU is not getting sufficient voltage and may refuse to start. Get the starter serviced. This happens when the lubricant in the starter bearings solidifies. Happens mostly in very old cars generally on cold days
. If the problem appears only after a prolonged rest, say 2+ days, then the fuel may have leaked out of the pump. Check if the car starts after 20 sec or more of the starter working. If it does, then get the fuel line checked for leaks.
. If the problem is only on hot days in summer, there may be a vapour lock in the tank. Simplest test - when the car refuses to start, open up the fuel filling cap. Wait for a few seconds and then start. If it starts, then it is vapour lock. Check the fuel cap and clean the hole in it.
. If none of the above work, then you may have a loose connection at the battery end. Check the thinner cable coming from the battery. The thick one is for starter. Pull it and see if it is loose/frayed. If so, loosen the battery terminal. Pull the cable out. If the terminal of the cable looks dirty, clean and sand it. Put it back. Tighten the terminal bolt.

[hrbheda]

@Jeroen and @Aroy took note of all the points you guys mentioned. Thanks for the descriptive info!
Will try out each and every point until I reach some conclusion.

It will take some time to eliminate possibilities since the problem is intermittent but will surely keep you guys updated as to what the situation is from time to time!

Thanks again!

[Lobogris]

I have 3 year old petrol Jetta which starts with half a crank when started for the first time during a day. After driving for a while (could be 5 km or 50), if I park it for a while and come back, it simply cranks and doesn't start unless I press the accelerator halfway. Otherwise it sometimes turns on and immediately dies. However once I press the accelerator while cranking, it starts fine and has no other issues. An interesting thing is that if I turn it off briefly like stalling or turning it off at a traffic light then it starts back instantly without needing the accelerator to be pressed. It is only after it has been left for say 30 plus minutes that it is hard to start. After that it remains hard to start even after 7-8 hours but again is perfectly fine when left overnight!

Do I need to worry?

[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

After driving for a while (could be 5 km or 50), if I park it for a while and come back, it simply cranks and doesn't start unless I press the accelerator halfway.

Do I need to worry?

Clogged fuel filter maybe? If its a diesel then maybe the diesel particulate filter? I'm guessing since i started eliminating these first for my car!

Experts please correct me if I'm wrong!

[joybhowmik]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

I have 3 year old petrol Jetta which starts with half a crank when started for the first time during a day. After driving for a while (could be 5 km or 50), if I park it for a while and come back, it simply cranks and doesn't start unless I press the accelerator halfway. Otherwise it sometimes turns on and immediately dies. However once I press the accelerator while cranking, it starts fine and has no other issues. An interesting thing is that if I turn it off briefly like stalling or turning it off at a traffic light then it starts back instantly without needing the accelerator to be pressed. It is only after it has been left for say 30 plus minutes that it is hard to start. After that it remains hard to start even after 7-8 hours but again is perfectly fine when left overnight!

Do I need to worry?

Seems uncannily like the Ice cream story. However, I would suspect a battery/self issue given that this is a 3 year old car (assumption being all parts are factory vintage).

Can you take a multimeter reading of the battery terminal voltage and report back the voltage observed:
a) when idling,
b) when cranking but not starting (after you've parked ), and
c) when not started

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

...3 year old petrol Jetta...
...if I park it for a while and come back, it simply cranks and doesn't start unless I press the accelerator halfway. Otherwise it sometimes turns on and immediately dies. However once I press the accelerator while cranking, it starts fine...
...if I turn it off briefly like stalling or turning it off at a traffic light then it starts back instantly without needing the accelerator to be pressed. It is only after it has been left for say 30 plus minutes that it is hard to start. After that it remains hard to start even after 7-8 hours but again is perfectly fine when left overnight!

A few questions first:
1. How's the FE? Any remarkable drop or rise from what it used to be?
2. When was the fuel tank cleaned, if ever?
3. Have you used any additive like System-G in the petrol tank?
4. Is the A-pedal sensor-based or cable operated?
5. What do the spark plugs look like? Were they changed / cleaned and reset anytime recently?
6. Any check-engine-light-coming-on incident recently?

[hrbheda]

Sit Rep.
It happened again today evening. Same problem.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Check battery voltage between terminals when the car refuses to start.

Voltage across the battery w/o the key in the ignition : 14.2 V
Voltage across the battery when car refused to start with key in on position
: ~12.1 V

Originally Posted by Aroy

Just to ensure that the motor is not draining the battery, check the voltage with starter on. If it is below the recommended, then, the ECU is not getting sufficient voltage and may refuse to start.

Recommended voltage is I think >11 V.
Didn't know where to touch the multimeter cables on the ECU connector to check the voltage.
Its one lever based connector behind the battery and i didn't want to mess with it ,so didn't do that.
Will do it with a knowledgeable technician at the HASS.
(or please recommend someone if you know)

Originally Posted by Aroy

Get the starter serviced. This happens when the lubricant in the starter bearings solidifies. Happens mostly in very old cars generally on cold days.

Still Pending.

Originally Posted by Aroy

If the problem is only on hot days in summer, there may be a vapour lock in the tank. Simplest test - when the car refuses to start, open up the fuel filling cap. Wait for a few seconds and then start. If it starts, then it is vapour lock. Check the fuel cap and clean the hole in it.

There isn't any hole in the gas cap. There is a plastic barrier in the neck which opens when the filler nozzle pushes it.
I opened it with my finger and let it breath for about 2 minutes. I then gave it a self. Car didn't start.

After all these checks, I pushed the car and my dad gave it a self.
Started immediately as before.

Originally Posted by Lobogris

It is the petrol version.

By the time I realized that , the edit window had expired!

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by hrbheda

Voltage across the battery w/o the key in the ignition : 14.2 V

14.2V? Without the engine running? That's odd...

Originally Posted by hrbheda

Voltage across the battery when car refused to start with key in on position
: ~12.1 V

Not a battery issue. Likely to be the starter motor (worn brushes or bad solenoid), or corroded connections on the cables from battery to starter motor.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by hrbheda

Clogged fuel filter maybe? If its a diesel then maybe the diesel particulate filter? I'm guessing since i started eliminating these first for my car!

Experts please correct me if I'm wrong!

It is the petrol version.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

A few questions first:
1. How's the FE? Any remarkable drop or rise from what it used to be?
2. When was the fuel tank cleaned, if ever?
3. Have you used any additive like System-G in the petrol tank?
4. Is the A-pedal sensor-based or cable operated?
5. What do the spark plugs look like? Were they changed / cleaned and reset anytime recently?
6. Any check-engine-light-coming-on incident recently?

1.FE is same as before- around 15 kmpl in a mix of city and highway driving.
2. Never.
3. No.
4. Drive by wire.
5. Will check them- next service is due soon anyway. Never changed- the car only has around 40k on it.
6. No warning lights ever.

It is not a major issue as the car starts with just a press of the accelerator when warm with no fuss but what worries me is that if starts fine without having to press the accelerator when it is left overnight.

Thank you so much.

[hrbheda]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Likely to be the starter motor (worn brushes or bad solenoid), or corroded connections on the cables from battery to starter motor.

To service the starter is quite a time consuming job and hence I'm waiting for
a extended weekend of some sorts!
Also, I was quoted approx 4300/- to get the starter out and service it. Does this seem right ?
The SA couldn't quote the cost of a new starter (if required) since it wasn't in stock.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

It is not a major issue as the car starts with just a press of the accelerator when warm with no fuss but what worries me is that if starts fine without having to press the accelerator when it is left overnight.

- Get the A-pedal serviced / cleaned, preferably with an electrical contact cleaner spray.
- Have the petrol tank cleaned.

Originally Posted by hrbheda

Also, I was quoted approx 4300/- to get the starter out and service it. Does this seem right ?

That's a high quote for an i10. What make is the starter? MICO Bosch / Lucas both have authorized service centres specifically to repair starter motors, alternators etc. Go to one that has a starter motor test bench. I am presuming you are out of warranty.