[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by honeybee

The service advisor... could reproduce the issue by revving the engine high, and the issue went away when he tested with a different battery.

Hot starter motor with problem = higher current draw than cold starter motor on first start.

Agreed, the battery may not be in optimum condition. But the starter motor is also seeking some attention. Once the starter motor is fixed (and draws lesser current even on hot start), you could perhaps eke out a few months more of battery life.

What does the battery electrolyte say? Topped up? Proper specific gravity?

[speedkrish]

Originally Posted by null

What is the latest on this issue? Did they manage to diagnose the issue?



We too have a similar issue with my BIL's Ertiga. Once in a while, it just decides to stop cranking when we turn on the ignition key. But, after taking the key out, opening & closing the doors etc, it starts up (exact sequence not known). Could live with it since it used to happen occasionally, but it decided to become stubborn last night. It just didn't want to start in spite of all tricks (taking out the ignition keys, audio off, AC off, door opening act etc). Push start works well, hence there is no issue with fuel flow IMO.

Based on some posts here on TBHP, I guess an ECU reset need to be done by removing the battery leads for 15-30 mins (yet to try it - since the car is not home).

Anyone else facing similar issues of their Ertiga not willing to start up randomly? Pl. comment.

PS: Battery seem to be fine. All operations working normally. Haven't got the voltage checked though. BTW car is back from service just a week ago. They had checked & rectified (done some wiring changes? coil was not replaced as per the bill) this issue as per my nephew who had gone for the service.

I have a similar issue with my Ertiga SHVS. Diesel. Randomly fails to start with key switched on. Today I switched off due to a traffic jam and the car refused to switch on when I tried to start. After 5 min it started normally. But in the 5 min as my car was in the middle of the road it caused a major jam and I was helpless. I plan to take to the Maruti service centre but any help really appreciate.

[speedkrish]

Originally Posted by speedkrish

I have a similar issue with my Ertiga SHVS. Diesel. Randomly fails to start with key switched on. Today I switched off due to a traffic jam and the car refused to switch on when I tried to start. After 5 min it started normally. But in the 5 min as my car was in the middle of the road it caused a major jam and I was helpless. I plan to take to the Maruti service centre but any help really appreciate.

Problem resolved. Ertiga SHVS needs clutch to be engaged to start. Read this from the manual which clearly states clutch as a pre-req to start.

[souvik6]

I am facing battery issues with 6month old Creta which only started this month. I have had the speakers installed since I got the car without any issues so that’s not the culprit.

The only thing that comes to mind is that I have had a relay installed for auto ORVM. Can you please advice if such a plug and play relay can drain the battery without any usage? Battery is now dying if car is left unused for 3-4 days. 3 times I have had to call road side assistance to jump start already.

I am thinking of taking to service center this weekend but should I remove the aftermarket relay or not?

[Jeroen]

Roughly speaking there could be two different problems.
First have the battery checked so you know it's is not a battery problem

Secondly it is likely to be some short circuit. One single relay is doubtful if that is the cause. Pull it out and see what happens. If the problem started occurring after it was installed I would suspect a wiring problem. Maybe some insulation that came loose or so.

The other thing you want to check if none of the various valet lights, glove compartment, boot etc actually turn off when you switch off the ignition. One single bulb will drain the battery over a 7-14 days easily, so especially if your battery isn't in too great a condition it will drain much faster.
If these simple check don't yield result you need to hook up a multimeter, check the reading, pull one fuse at the time and check reading. If the reading drops when you pull a specific fuse, that particular electric circuit is likely the culprit
Let's us know what you find
Good luck
Jeroen

[sudev]

If relays were a problem you would have had a fire by now!
Get battery checked first. Could be a bad battery. Our put in a service battery and see if problem persists

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by souvik6

I am facing battery issues with 6month old Creta which only started this month. I have had the speakers installed since I got the car without any issues so that’s not the culprit.

The only thing that comes to mind is that I have had a relay installed for auto ORVM. Can you please advice if such a plug and play relay can drain the battery without any usage? Battery is now dying if car is left unused for 3-4 days.

Check for current drain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFCT-YZbU5o

Then disconnect the aftermarket accessories you have installed, one at a time, and check which one is draining the battery.

Sometimes a short in the original harness or a problem with the alternator can also drain the battery.

[gearedup]

Dear Experts,
Query is on Zen 1999 model car (Carb)
Currently facing problem of the engine cranking but not starting only when the vehicle is parked in hot sun* for greater than 10 mins.
At the 10th attempt, it finally started. This is the only issue in the car which panics me, so I even tried the choke, pressed the accelerator pedal once. Dunno if this was right thing to do, please advise.
In all other cases, there is no problem whatsoever, engine starts on first crank.
Eg:
1. Any number of times during a long drive during cooler evening/night.
2. Early morning cold start.
3. Vehicle parked in hot sun* for lesser than 10 minutes.
Having gone through this thread for solutions, I still could not understand whether there is any problem with starter motor or related components. Battery is 6 months old & there is no unknown current drain.
Vehicle was serviced just 500 kms ago. At the time of giving for service, the vehicle had faced issue of "will crank wont start" right at my residence. The mechanic who visited my house said that the fuel was rich, but I clarified that same as above, I would have pressed the accelator about 3-4 times. Then during service my regular mechanic installed a needle valve too.
*Hot Sun=bonnet untouchable (yes, I stay in bangalore)

[sudev]

In carb model cars every time you press the accelerator a small amount of fuel if injected directly into the throttle body to prevent mixture from becoming lean. If you press accelerator few times before cranking fuel flooding occurs and car is probe to take many rotations before it will fire. But this is not your problem now.

It is likely that the float needle is set very high and small fuel trickle is flooding the carb. (similar to multiple accelerator press) get the float needle set slightly lower. Though why this should only happen at ten minutes precisely on a hot day is beyond me.

[Jeroen]

As the problems appears only when the temperatures are high I wonder if your fuel system is suffering from vapor lock.

See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_lock

If this is the case there isn't much you can do other then put a wet towel on the fuel pump to cool it down.

These days it is rare as most cars have a fuel pump fitted inside the fuel tank.

When cars have starting difficulties I would always start checking all the obvious things first. Battery, ignition, spark plugs, HT leads. Starter motors are known to give problems at higher temperatures or at least draw higher amps so in combination with a not so great battery might be a problem.

But as your car eventually does start my money would be on the ignition system, unless you don't have a built in tank fuel pump in which case it could be vapor lock.
Good luck
Jeroen

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by gearedup

Dear Experts,
Query is on Zen 1999 model car (Carb)
Currently facing problem of the engine cranking but not starting only when the vehicle is parked in hot sun* for greater than 10 mins.
At the 10th attempt, it finally started. This is the only issue in the car which panics me, so I even tried the choke, pressed the accelerator pedal once. Dunno if this was right thing to do, please advise.
In all other cases, there is no problem whatsoever, engine starts on first crank.
Eg:
1. Any number of times during a long drive during cooler evening/night.
2. Early morning cold start.
3. Vehicle parked in hot sun* for lesser than 10 minutes.
Having gone through this thread for solutions, I still could not understand whether there is any problem with starter motor or related components. Battery is 6 months old & there is no unknown current drain.
Vehicle was serviced just 500 kms ago. At the time of giving for service, the vehicle had faced issue of "will crank wont start" right at my residence. The mechanic who visited my house said that the fuel was rich, but I clarified that same as above, I would have pressed the accelator about 3-4 times. Then during service my regular mechanic installed a needle valve too.
*Hot Sun=bonnet untouchable (yes, I stay in bangalore)

This is similar to what happened to my Motorcycle in early '70s. Would not start when parked in direct sun in summers.

Diagnosis - the heat evaporated the petrol in the carb, and fine residue would choke the jets. When there was enough petrol in the carburetor, the fines would not block, but once petrol evaporated the fines would.

Remedy - open the car and clean it thoroughly. If there is no petrol filter, then install one. If there is one change it as it may have accumulated enough dust to be useless.

[gearedup]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

As the problems appears only when the temperatures are high I wonder if your fuel system is suffering from vapor lock........These days it is rare as most cars have a fuel pump fitted inside the fuel tank...........But as your car eventually does start my money would be on the ignition system, unless you don't have a built in tank fuel pump in which case it could be vapor lock.
Good luck
Jeroen

The fuel pump is within the tank. But I think the vapor lock is same as mentioned by Aroy.

Originally Posted by Aroy

This is similar to what happened to my Motorcycle in early '70s. Would not start when parked in direct sun in summers.
Diagnosis - the heat evaporated the petrol in the carb, and fine residue would choke the jets. When there was enough petrol in the carburetor, the fines would not block, but once petrol evaporated the fines would.
Remedy - open the car and clean it thoroughly. If there is no petrol filter, then install one. If there is one change it as it may have accumulated enough dust to be useless.

Thanks, my regular garage conveyed the same diagnosis over phone. The fuel filter was replaced a year/10000 kms ago. Will have that replaced.
I am also thinking of exploring any insulating material (fire retardant) to lay underneath the bonnet. The garage was suggesting thermocol , let me see why I wouldn't get the insulating material or its costs.

[sudev]

No not thermocool! That is prone to fire. And if over heart is the problem then think in terms of heat that is going to be trapped inside.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by gearedup

I am also thinking of exploring any insulating material (fire retardant) to lay underneath the bonnet. The garage was suggesting thermocol , let me see why I wouldn't get the insulating material or its costs.

It keeps the bonnet cooler to the touch and will diminish heat transfer into the engine compartment from sun rays.

But bear in mind: Insulation works two ways, it will also trap more (engine) heat underneath the bonnet.

If you car wasn't designed with insulation under the bonnet I would be careful

Good luck,

Jeroen

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by sudev

No not thermocool! That is prone to fire. And if over heart is the problem then think in terms of heat that is going to be trapped inside.

Normally under bonnet insulation is used to retard heat flow to the cabin and to insulate the engine noise.

Thermocole is a fire hazard. Most under bonnet insulation used to be asbestos based, but with its ban, have been replaced with fibre glass mat impregnated with fire retardant chemicals.

Normally when the car is in motion there is sufficient air flow in the engine compartment. When it is stopped and the engine switched off the heat will build up, insulation or no insulation.