[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by harik45

See attached graph for the tuned baleno rs from race concepts. It doesn't have the graph for the stock one.

Yes, they have not posted the graph for stock map. The graph you have posted in not clear. Posting a better picture and do notice 1.24 as overall correction factor. It means car would show 24 percent more power than it actually does. That explains how they got high figures on paper

[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Yes, they have not posted the graph for stock map. The graph you have posted in not clear. Posting a better picture and do notice 1.24 as overall correction factor. It means car would show 24 percent more power than it actually does. That explains how they got high figures on paper

So removing 24% from 135 BHP gives 102.6 BHP.. Stock baleno comes with 101 BHP.. Am I missing something? Barely 2 bhp increase in power but claiming 1.5 seconds faster to 100?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Turrrb0

So removing 24% from 135 BHP gives 102.6 BHP.. Stock baleno comes with 101 BHP.. Am I missing something? Barely 2 bhp increase in power but claiming 1.5 seconds faster to 100?

It could be 103 HP at wheels.

Stock RS has done 85 hp at wheels. Posting Stock vs Stage 1 of Baleno RS by GT Tunerz Delhi (Quantum UK remap)


This map is tuned better and the tuner has posted both stock and tuned runs, fair enough. They have also kept overall correction factor as 1 and did not make false power like the other tuner.

[harik45]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I can't comment on which is the best tune etc as I have not driven any remapped Baleno RS. As per my knowledge, 3 tuners have remapped this car in India : Petes, GT Tunerz and Wolf Moto. Advantage with Wolf is you are dealing with the tuner directly and can try different maps / customise as per your needs.

Hi Dr. Naren,

Firstly, if ECU remap is the option to go by, then its Petes, GT Tunerz or Wolf Moto. Is it advisable to go to the home location like Kochi (Petes and Wolf Moto) or is it good enough to do it at a local dealer here in Bangalore (if they have one)? Don't know if GT Tunerz have a dealer in Bangalore.

Secondly, is it worth it to do a turbo upgrade for the 1.0L Boosterjet engine?. I have seen that the 1.4L Boosterjet on the international Suzuki Swift Sport gets a HKS turbo upgrade but not the 1.0L. I am not sure if its available and who can do a reliable job of that here in India? But the gains would be a lot more (maybe a 50% increase).

Thirdly, would it be a better option to replace the whole engine with the N/A 1.6L from Suzuki and bolt on a turbokit on that for the Baleno RS? Maximum gains available from this option is understood, but from a reliability standpoint, is it worth it and especially here in India - who would you recommend to do this job?.

Thanks in advance Dr. Naren
Awaiting your reply

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by harik45

Firstly, if ECU remap is the option to go by, then its Petes, GT Tunerz or Wolf Moto. Is it advisable to go to the home location like Kochi (Petes and Wolf Moto) or is it good enough to do it at a local dealer here in Bangalore (if they have one)? Don't know if GT Tunerz have a dealer in Bangalore.

I would suggest Wolf Moto or GT Tunerz for Baleno RS. All the tuners have faced challenges in developing a good tune for this car. But, Wolf and GT Tunerz have a decent map. Get in touch with them and choose based on your convenience / pricing.

I won't suggest doing a turbo upgrade. Go for exhaust and intake mods along with remap.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Injector would be open for X + a amount of time to inject Y amount of fuel : Decalibrated. In reality more amount of fuel would be injected as the injectors are open for longer duration but the ECU still thinks that same amount of fuel is injected like stock (FOOLED). When a tuner changes only this map and makes power.. FE in MID might show very good figures

Thanks Dr. Naren for this supremely informative thread! I have one question regarding the point I have quoted above from your post.
If the tuner does this de-calibrated tuning, what other implications it may have possibly on the engine or any other parts as such, apart from the wrong figures appearing in the MID?

And, looking at the objective of remapping (increase in power/torque, or shaping them up in the rev band to suit driving needs) - wouldn't it be serving the purpose rightly compared to a recommended/proper way of tuning?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by clevermax

If the tuner does this de-calibrated tuning, what other implications it may have possibly on the engine or any other parts as such, apart from the wrong figures appearing in the MID?

And, looking at the objective of remapping (increase in power/torque, or shaping them up in the rev band to suit driving needs) - wouldn't it be serving the purpose rightly compared to a recommended/proper way of tuning?

Increasing injector opening duration is the easiest way of making power in diesel. Most of the tuners in India are doing the same. I call this a jugaad way of making power. You won't even know how much power the car is making. It's fooling the ECU by remap to deliver more fuel.

Yes, the MID reading would be affected. This type of tuning also messes up with start of injection. Most of the cars smoke a lot.

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Increasing injector opening duration is the easiest way of making power in diesel. Most of the tuners in India are doing the same.

So is it the same with GT Tunerz also? Or are they professionals and don't do such jugaad work?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by BoneCollector

So is it the same with GT Tunerz also? Or are they professionals and don't do such jugaad work?

Jugaad is when the tuner changes only injector duration map to make power. I have personally not seen any maps from GT Tunerz to comment, but I am sure they have good experience and professional.

This is an example of horrible tuning of 1.3 MJD ( Ciaz ), this guy changed only injector opening duration map by huge percentage (27.3 to be precise). Worst tune ever I have come across in 1.3 MJD. The car was retuned by another tuner , got the pic from him.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Increasing injector opening duration is the easiest way of making power in diesel. Most of the tuners in India are doing the same. I call this a jugaad way of making power.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Jugaad is when the tuner changes only injector duration map to make power.

Dr. Naren,
So, all (good) remaps are also changing the injector maps along with other changes? Turbo boost, AF, rail pressure(?) etc.
Or is it that a good remap won't even have to touch the injector opening timings? (decalibration as you mentioned)

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Dr. Naren,
So, all (good) remaps are also messing with the injector opening duration along with other changes? Or is it that a good remap won't even have to touch the injector opening timings? (decalibration as you mentioned)

It depends. But, for most of the Stage 1 remaps there is absolutely no need to touch ID map if the tuner has found all the necessary limiter maps. My Stage 3 S-Cross 1.6 has injector duration untouched by Wolf . Still the car is making lot of power.

Ideally one should change this map if we have to request more fuel than what is defined in ID map. Say my S-Cross has ID map defined till 100 mm3. If I need more than that value, the tuner has to calibrate the axis and insert his own values which would be pure guess work.

As I said before, most of the tuners touch this map. Minimal changes are Ok, it wouldn't mess up much with factory engine timing.

[harik45]

My Stage 3 S-Cross 1.6 has injector duration untouched by Wolf . Still the car is making lot of power.

So this means the increase in power comes from injection timing advancement upto the knock limit would give around 10~15% gains. An additional 5% gains would come from increased airflow (intake and exhaust upgrades)

Do tuners change injection pressure map?. if injection duration remains the same the increased fuel requirements should be compensated by increased injection pressure. Is this understanding correct?.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by harik45

Do tuners change injection pressure map?. If injection duration remains the same the increased fuel requirements should be compensated by increased injection pressure. Is this understanding correct?.

This understanding is correct for tuning box. Tuning box can make power by increasing rail pressure or Injector opening duration. A good remap is different. You can make decent power by not even touching injector duration and rail pressure maps. Most of the ECU's have maps defined for much higher values and they are limited by limiter maps. Tuner will tweak the limiters to increase power. ECU will take care of the changes. This is why a good remap has always better power delivery than tuning boxes.

[clevermax]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Changing the injector duration is the worst shortcut that many tuners take. This results in wrong timing. A proper tuner should deal with drivers wish maps and smoke maps. Torque limiter maps and various other maps should also be tuned as per the individual car considering individual preference.

Can you please clarify why altering drivers wish maps fall into proper tuning category?
If a tuner changes drivers wish maps, it is equivalent to having more throttle % at the same physical position of the pedal than in stock condition and that doesn't really result in any power gain right?

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by clevermax

Why altering drivers wish maps fall into proper tuning category?

Drivers wish maps have to be changed. But, not with the intention to fool the driver. DW maps have to be changed accordingly with other map changes so that they are in sync.

For example, If 300 NM torque is requested by tuner at particular RPM in other maps and "stock" DW map is 250 NM even at 100 % throttle , This has to be changed or else it will act like a limiter.

If a tuner changes drivers wish maps, it is equivalent to having more throttle % at the same physical position of the pedal than in stock condition and that doesn't really result in any power gain right?

Absolutely. I was a victim . Tune O Tronics had done that in my S-Cross and I realised it only after I timed the car. Anyways they gave me a better map later. This is why I always insist on checking the performance on full throttle.