[AB10]

So sorry to hear this. Its such a shame that you had to go through this ordeal twice in less than 8 months of your ownership. I had read that DQ381 is far more reliable than DQ200 but this thread hardly feels like it.

Like GTO always says, plan for 2 DSG failures during the lifetime of your car. This has unfortunately happened at within first 8 months itself !

[srikanth.vemuri]

Alarming and surprising to hear this news about a wet clutch DSG! Had always assumed the new wet clutch family would be far more reliable (wet clutch and peak torque rating of 420 Nm leaving good safety margins). The DQ200 being a dry clutch and exposed to its torque limit (250 Nm in the 1.8TSIs and now the 1.5 TSIs) always felt dodgy in comparison, on paper at least.

Guess all that theorising goes out of the window now.

More worrying still is the lack of proper diagnosis. Underfilled transmission fluid would have been easy to justify as a one-off issue, but that's ruled out.

I do hope they do identify the root cause (hopefully not the DSG) and manage to fix it for good this time. Would be keen to understand what really went wrong.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Dhruv29

- But just 3 month in ownership, then again same failure after 8 months post DSG replacement. It is too much.

- There is no training given to technicians to even carry out small repairs on it and the replacement for it costs 7 lacs + labour.

- This is bad. Something is weird about this, could be that ASC's issue too. If feasible try out some other/better ASC to rule out workshop issues.
But do escalate to VW since this is not normal.

- This is another big issue, apart from the DSG failure and the downtime. Just doesn't make sense to not train staff in repairing it.

Originally Posted by EV NXT

- There are quite a few threads advising to set apart money for DSG failures instead of advising to boycott the product thereby forcing VW to improve or introduce a better gearbox.

- Wouldn’t VW read those threads and realize that they can actually make more money by selling a defective product than by providing a fail safe one?

- I think you mean posts ? And I have suggested setting aside a DSG fund a few times. But do note that this is a word of caution to someone who has almost decided on a DSG.
While we cannot deny its telepathic nature(my view) we cannot deny its potential troubles and costs too.
Boycotting isn't a solution, customers will and should buy what they like anyway and if the DSG issues cross a threshold they'll see the drop in sales.

- I don't think so. Its a predetermined decision which isn't affected anyone's feedback post that. VW should have much better data on their failures and drop in sales than us. Probably the reason for the AT in the 1.0 TSi.

Personally I would rather have the DSG as an option than not have one altogether since I am not forced to buy it but if VW are serious about it they should've fixed it like the 1.0TSi AT.

Originally Posted by Amey Kulkarni

Why do you call it a concern only for India?
It’s surely not heat. GCC has more temperature than India.

From what I gather its a mixture of our traffic conditions especially city traffic. Some folks have reported DSGs running without issues till 70-90k kms but it is a problem for sure.
GCC has smoother traffic regardless of volume but it happens there too. A friend's Golf 1.6 had that issue but was replaced/repaired under warranty which was apparently 15 or 25 years(can't recall) for that DSG since it was reporting issues.
This was something that earned VW a special place in my books and lack of it in India is the reason they don't enjoy that reputation anymore.

If feasible, could you please check with your VW workshop about the warranty on your gearbox specifically ? Do they know of any such warranty in the past given by VW on DQ200 or similar ?

[Kars'n'Ketamine]

Very sorry to hear about the dreaded DSG failure.

I came across a small paragraph regarding DSG 381 failure in the following website. (Link provided at the end)

The reason to bring this to your notice is:
Is there something else that VW is missing while replacing the gearbox?

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the website. But the fact that they mentioned about the repeated DSG failure in the same way as before, caught my attention.

Attaching the screenshot of the same, for convenience.

PS: I've driven a VW 1.6 litre with DSG 200 roughly for 2000 miles. It puts to shame, my B47 with Torque converter!

The factor of reliability doesn't matter sometimes!

It's like the crazy teenage girlfriend! The more she throws temper tantrums at you, the more you fall in love with her!

https://www.ecutesting.com/common-fa...rbox-problems/

[novice]

After listening to the noise in the video and your description of it, I don’t think it is gearbox issue. I believe the noise is coming from the engine. Sounds more like engine is not getting enough fuel when you put your foot down. There won’t be any error codes in this case. Please ask them run fuel pressure check. It is likely that the fuel pump in the tank not supplying enough fuel with required pressure. Other possible culprits are high pressure fuel pump, injectors or choked fuel filter. But I would bet all my money on in-tank fuel pump.

Also, the sluggishness in acceleration that you mentioned is another typical symptom of fuel system issues.

[showboat]

As a Diesel Tiguan owner this is a very sad situation to see. I hope they resolve this issue for you without too much hassle. It's very hard to get senior management involved but do your best for India and global. It should be broadcast throughout the company if your unable to get a good resolution.

On a side note. When did they switch from the DQ500 to the DQ381? I was pretty sure I have a DQ500 in my 2.0tdi Tiguan.

Update: And of course the answer is there in TBHP.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4852024 (VW Tiguan AllSpace with 3rd-row seating, now launched)

[novice]

I would not let VW ASS to even touch the gearbox and mechatronic if it’s my car. I think the gearbox replacement earlier was a result of either wrong diagnosis or inability to diagnose the root cause.

For the issue reported in this thread, I would buy a aftermarket fuel pump from one of the European brands and test with it if VW fails to come up with any satisfactory resolution. The pump should cost under 6.5k compared to VW’s 18k and any good mechanic should be able to fit it under 10 minutes.

I find aftermarket parts from good European brands like Vika and Febi have better quality and reliability than VW OEM parts.

[Rajamass]

Originally Posted by Dhruv29

15th April 2022

THE GEARBOX HAS FAILED AGAIN!

Exactly after a year since I first noticed this problem in summers, I am facing same exact problem again!

After driving the car on highway for about 15km in ambient temperature of 42 degrees, again my car refused to accelerate and started knocking from engine side.

What is the problem with VW for launching this untested, useless product in Indian conditions in the name of CBU. Who should be held responsible for this?

In fact, just an hour back I received a comment on my older video on Youtube from a viewer asking for help for exact same issue. Who knew that I’ll be posting the videos of the same issue again!

I’ll send my car to service centre again and god knows what kind of diagnosis they’ll do and how long my car will be stranded there.

Currently the ODO stands at approx 27,500km. I’ve driven the car only about 14k km post gearbox replacement

1. https://Youtu.be/0KXwOVJksOE
2. https://Youtu.be/TRXqy_jizvU
3. https://Youtu.be/cQDRVq1UHJw
4. https://Youtu.be/hoyc2yJ2xwQ

I am sorry for what you have been going through. I am under impression that only DQ200 is problematic, but not the DQ381. It is also rare that two times the gearbox failed in a car that had just driven ~28000kms. I am surprised that VW can handle these failures with much larger sales volume outside India without much noise or media attention. I believe that the last replacement was not handled properly by the service station mechanic.

[novice]

Originally Posted by Rajamass

I am sorry for what you have been going through. I am under impression that only DQ200 is problematic, but not the DQ381. It is also rare that two times the gearbox failed in a car that had just driven ~28000kms.

I think it is bit premature to blame DSG in this case. Let us wait for VW ASS to analyze the problem and come up with a proposal for resolution.

[Satish Pari]

Sorry to hear about the DSG failure.

Just wanted to share my interaction with a sales person at a Skoda showroom recently. I had gone to the showroom to have a look at the new Slavia and was pretty impressed with the car. Then I got down to details and asked the sales person about the different options available. He said the 1.5 DSG and the1.0 AT with torque converter are the automatic options available.

My next question was about the reliability of the DSG gearbox and this is the answer I got. "Sir no problem with the DSG gearbox now. All the issues have been sorted out. The software has been updated". My next question was "What if the DSG gearbox fails, I have read about a lot of failures on various forums". His answer "Sir even if it fails, you have the 4 year plus 2 year extended warranty so no worries sir". Frankly I do no know what to make out of this reply. Does he think I'm too naïve or is he unknowingly accepting the fact that the DSG is bound to fail?

[devilwearsprada]

Originally Posted by Dhruv29

DQ381 will be a complete replacement in case of any failure as of now. There is no training given to technicians to even carry out small repairs on it and the replacement for it costs 7 lacs + labour.

I hope your car isnt at the VW service center opposite ardee mall. That's the worst ASS in Delhi-NCR. Period. They rejected 3 of my warranty claims, one for fuel pump then one for water pump and then one for DSG all because my car had an exhuast.

Take your car to VW MotiBagh or VW Service Center in Behrampur, they are far far far better.

The GM at VW Wazirabad(Mandeep) is a horrible lady to deal with and doesnt honor the buying experience from the same dealer.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

The DSG is a complex gearbox and could very well be the culprit here but considering there were no metal shavings noticed in the oil, no codes, no slippage/transmission jerks, no gear hunting, etc there is a chance your issue may not be resolved with a transmission change. I would recommend you to monitor the car after the DSG is replaced. If you still have issues I would recommend checking a couple of things:

1) if the car jumped timing: it is possible for an ICE engine to still run with jumped timing but it will cut on power and give erratic throttle response. A visual inspection of the timing markers can help in identifying if the engine jumped timing.

2) Turbo boost leak: you mentioned the car losing power when trying to get in boost range, if there is a leak in vaccum line or loose hose clamps it can cause some of the symptoms you are experiencing like loss of power. Usually a boost leak would also cause black smoke from exhaust depending on how bad it is.

The more I read your very first post I keep feeling this has something to do with the turbo or a boost leak which again may not give a code depending on how severe the issue is.

Sorry to hear the DSG gearbox replacement didn't provide a permanent fix, I would however echo my previous post (quoted above). Looking at all the videos you posted, it doesn't seem like its the DSG that is the root cause. The more I hear the sound the more it feels like its coming from the engine/turbo. It could be that the issue isn't translating well through the video but I couldn't notice any clutch slippage, jerking or gear hunting. The shifts themselves seemed smooth but every time there was a shift it was instantly followed by a sound. Every shift in addition to change in gears and engaging/disengaging of the clutch also involves a change in the boost pressure when the RPM's change. I would recommend checking all the turbo hoses, clamps and vacuum lines, I would also consider the possibility of a bad wastegate/wastegate actuator that is failing intermittently as that can also cause similar noises.

Attached is a youtube video of a completely failed wastegate in a BMW N54 engine as an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViuBG9s3a6w&t=35s

If you do feel its still related to the DSG I would highly recommend asking the dealership to check the flywheel to ensure that it didn't end up having a premature failure as that sound is pretty similar to the metal on metal contact sound you are hearing. Attached another video of a scenario where DSG made clanking sounds on downshifts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfHm5DNrBow

I hope your issues are resolved soon, it can understandably be a pain to deal with this especially if the dealership is witch hunting instead of properly diagnosing the root cause of the problem. Good luck!

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by EV NXT

Instead of boycotting VW thereby forcing them to come out with a product that does not fail or provide unconditional / unlimited warranties we instead encourage VW by knowingly buying DSGs.

There are quite a few threads advising to set apart money for DSG failures instead of advising to boycott the product thereby forcing VW to improve or introduce a better gearbox. Wouldn’t VW read those threads and realize that they can actually make more money by selling a defective product than by providing a fail safe one?

Seriously? Is this your take on the brand? By paying a premium for the brand/product and then set aside couple of lakhs for the expected DSG failure? And still don't want to take strict actions against the brand for treating us like this?

On the other hand, the consumer laws in India aren't strong enough per se. The OEM's take us for granted. Generally, for most part, the testing of vehicle (for any brand) in India is done at the expense of the customer which is why the warranty is an imperative and significant factor of the vehicle purchase here.

Why is that Maruti/Hyundai/Toyota/Honda doesnt face these reliability issues? In fact, even though these brands are slightly on the expensive side for the value it offers as a product, still these are the brands that rule the auto industry in India. In India, in the name of warranty, we (customers) are extensively taken for a ride by the OEMs - especially these brands VW, Skoda, Tata, M&M. The recent 2 wheeler EV incidents are a testimonial/example of how consumers are treated vs OEM's are treated. Fortunately, there are no lives lost (if I am correct) in these recent incidents.

More than anything, what we need are
1. Strict consumer protecting laws and its enforcement.
2. Strict regulations and compliance and its enforcement.
3. Common consortium of customer, dealer and OEM for grievances redressal and more..

Regarding the OP's situation, I feel very sorry for him. This is absolutely atrocious by the OEM and demands strict action against the brand. Unfortunately I am in the same boat as the OP (or even worse) with Tata.

[SilverSmoke]

Reading the second failure sent jitters to me, as I am waiting for Kodiaq to be delivered. Thought 381 is a workhorse.

Even though VW group knows that DSG fails frequently, they should have been giving manual transmission option in all their cars, instead of pushing delicate DSGs to unsuspecting customers.

[Dhruv29]

Originally Posted by novice

After listening to the noise in the video and your description of it, I don’t think it is gearbox issue. I believe the noise is coming from the engine. Sounds more like engine is not getting enough fuel when you put your foot down. There won’t be any error codes in this case. Please ask them run fuel pressure check. It is likely that the fuel pump in the tank not supplying enough fuel with required pressure. Other possible culprits are high pressure fuel pump, injectors or choked fuel filter. But I would bet all my money on in-tank fuel pump.

Also, the sluggishness in acceleration that you mentioned is another typical symptom of fuel system issues.

It's not related to fuel system, Complete drivetrain data with VCDS plugged during test drive is recorded when the issue occurs. It's normal. If there is anything related to fuel pump pressure. There will be a fault code.

Originally Posted by devilwearsprada

I hope your car isnt at the VW service center opposite ardee mall. That's the worst ASS in Delhi-NCR. Period. They rejected 3 of my warranty claims, one for fuel pump then one for water pump and then one for DSG all because my car had an exhuast.

Take your car to VW MotiBagh or VW Service Center in Behrampur, they are far far far better.


The GM at VW Wazirabad(Mandeep) is a horrible lady to deal with and doesnt honor the buying experience from the same dealer.

My car is at service centre opposite ardee mall since beginning. They've been quite nice actually. I've seen customers who comes with all guns blazing with DSG failures and the workshop will still follow the guidelines given to them by VW India. It's important to be friendly with workshop staff because in the end it's their recommendations/reports which are given to VW India and solutions are figured out for high ticket items like DSG etc. Even though this type of repeated fault is not expected at all!
V.W service centres are now turning out to be a place for owners to console each other for DSG failures. I dropped my car on Monday, and there were 5 people with DSG failures cursing VW to death. Why are they still selling DQ200 when it's certain that it will fail!

Originally Posted by rockporiom

If you do feel its still related to the DSG I would highly recommend asking the dealership to check the flywheel to ensure that it didn't end up having a premature failure as that sound is pretty similar to the metal on metal contact sound you are hearing. Attached another video of a scenario where DSG made clanking sounds on downshifts.
I hope your issues are resolved soon, it can understandably be a pain to deal with this especially if the dealership is witch hunting instead of properly diagnosing the root cause of the problem. Good luck!

I did explore wastegate rattle as a possible culprit during 1st failure, but it's not. Flywheel rattle will atleast exhibit a slight shudder, there isn't any. Everything is affected when the problem occurs, gearshifts are elongated, car doesn't pull normally etc.

Originally Posted by novice

I think it is bit premature to blame DSG in this case. Let us wait for VW ASS to analyze the problem and come up with a proposal for resolution.

My car was the first Allspace to exhibit this failure in India as per the service head. Since then, many Allspaces have developed this problem. Another was in the workshop for same issue, when i was dropping off my car.
I was also told that after the faulty gearbox from my vehicle was sent back to Germany, they've received an update on failure point of specific part which fails in Indian conditions. Even if gearbox is replaced again, the fault will comeback after certain amount of time as certain series of DQ381s have this updated part inside which fails prematurely. (Most likely mechanical pump).
The solution now is to get that part and replace it rather than changing the whole gearbox.
I will update the thread once i'll receive more information on the part (which part it is etc.) and its replacement procedure.
Right now the vehicle is at service centre along with other concerns like suspension noise, SOS errors, Front Assist error etc.
Fingers crossed for permanent solution.