[KSM-Vtec]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

According to the guy the condenser sits slightly higher than the prop shaft. So no problem. Moreover, I think Member GoSlow's gypsy has this setup, and he frequents the NIOC OTRS which have pretty scary terrain!

Oh ya in regular OTRs it should not be a problem, but its only about the probability of damage being higher. At the end of the day its a matter of luck.

But the point is that its not impossible to have a "No Problem" setup even with the condenser in the front.

[COUGAR]

talked to this fellow called Matthew- apparently an expert with Car AC's and he quoted 30 to 35k for the AC+Heater fitting. The higher cost is apparently because of the new type of refrigerant R134.

I somehow cant accept that the new refrigerant should push up costs by almost 10K! Is it cheaper in Noida side? are those figures of 17 to 25k with new parts?

[livewire]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Harjeev, you can check out that Sardarji's shop in Lajpat Nagar; CoolKing or some such name. He's always been THE retrofit shop for South Delhi.
Sorry, the name eludes me.

It s quick refrigrants...got mine done from there

[ntomer]

Hi,

Yesterday I went to Sai Kirpa Exterprises in Noida, Sec. 16 for AC fitting in my 2002, MPFI Gypsy King.

The quotes a rate of 19.5K for full fitting. This will include - Sanden 507 compressor, Capsi condenser and Seasons cooling coil and blower. The cooling coil and blower are one unit. When I asked them whether they have Superking units, they told me that these are not available any more, and seasons are much better than that. I was apprehensive about cooling coil and blower being in one unit too, but their answer was again - don't worry, this performs best.

When I asked them where they'll fit the condenser, they told me in front of radiator, with an electric fan in front of condenser. When I asked them about over-heating, the answer was that Kings don't over-heat, only older Gypsies used to heat. But when I insisted on condenser-above-the-rear-axle installation, they told me they can do that but it'll cost me 1K extra. And maintenance would be much more.

I asked him whether they'll have to cut any wires to fit it; and he replied in negative. He said that he'll use a siz-point relay and take connections from that.

Please tell me whether what he told me is correct? Or is he taking me for a ride? And some alternatives too, please.

Cheers

Nitin

[COUGAR]

Originally Posted by ntomer

The quotes a rate of 19.5K for full fitting. This will include - Sanden 507 compressor, Capsi condenser and Seasons cooling coil and blower.

Thats a damn good rate da! most people i am talking to are quoting between 28.5 to 35 for an AC install. Are you sure you are getting new parts and not refurbished ones?

Originally Posted by ntomer

The cooling coil and blower are one unit. When I asked them whether they have Superking units, they told me that these are not available any more, and seasons are much better than that. I was apprehensive about cooling coil and blower being in one unit too, but their answer was again - don't worry, this performs best.

SuperKing not available?

[COUGAR]

Bumping up the thread with an update.

With an upcoming expedition to the Himalayas looming, I decided to opt for a more reliable electrical system: the one bugbear in an otherwise reliable vehicle. So I ripped out the Tablet and all associated jhingtang, and while I was at it, decided to bootstrap the electricals to cleanup the system. What I found when I took the dashboard down was APPALLING! So I cut off and taped out all the surplus wires and "unknowns" hanging loose and so on. But I will focus here on the AC system and in particular on the electrical aspect.

Most AC installs I have seen in vehicles like the gypsy, even the outwardly "clean" appearing installs are very badly wired up from an electrical perspective. My system certainly was, and a dozen others I have seen were also pretty badly wired.

In my case, when the AC worked it worked well: but that was about 70% of the time. Blowouts of fuses and the single 5-pt relay was a VERY common occurence.

There are basically 3 major electrical components in the AC system that need power:

1. blower unit, which is either the stock blower or (more commonly) an uprated Superking unit.

2. Compressor

3. (optional) Condensor Fan

This is the way the components were wired up in my system previously:



I wasnt paying much attention to the electricals when the system was being installed leaving it to the judgement of the installer, and he did cover up his tracks well so it outwardly looked like a very clean install. Its only when I opened up the wiring now that I realise the thuk-patti approach used. Mine is not the only AC install like this: My install was done in Pune, but in Bangalore I have seen atleast one other Gypsy with the EXACT same wiring scheme as shown above: and it was the only other gypsy i examined. I am guessing this is what most installers are doing for Gypsies and Jeeps.

The major challenge in a Gypsy or Jeep is that the Stock Fusebox has very few surplus fuse points available which means installers tap into whatever power sources available.

This was a recurring problem when fitting any accessory: lack of suitable power taps with fuses. So the solution I worked out, was to put together an Auxiliary fusebox with 14 fuse points. The kind of fusebox pictured uses Spade-type fuses and is available for around 200 rupees, fuses extra.



This fusebox is mounted in the left wall of the Gypsy and connected with an independent 8-g wire to the battery via a 60A fuse mounted close to the battery. Now i have upto 14 additional power taps to use for any accesory in future: whether it is Aux Lamps or anything else. In addition, there is a relay board, (in my case fashioned out of surplus Balsa wood lying around), also mounted on the left side of the Gypsy under the bonnet.

So now, Instead of crude taps into ACC or Headlight wires, 3 of these 14 fuses from the Aux Fusebox will provide power to drive the AC components which should allow for a cleaner, and more reliable install.

Check the diagram for the proposed wiring:


Going to be rewiring my Gypsy AC system on Monday with this idea. Using soldering and proper crimps to ensure clean install! Will keep this thread updated!

I hope others will find this useful when installing their own AC: its better to do it right the first time!

[COUGAR]

An update: I have abandoned the plan to use the stock Gypsy speed controller for the blower: just saw that with this stock control, the speed even at level 3 is HALF of what i get if i directly power it with 12v. Also with the stock unit, power is being drawn from the existing loom and therefore is not a fused connection.

I have wired up the relays to provide power via-2 switched relays for Compressor and Blower respectively via 2 15A points in the Aux FuseBox. 2 wires are available in the dash: one 12v power for the Blower unit, and the second to the compressor relay.


I have just acquired a UNICLA controller: the kind that comes with the blower unit.


Anyone here has any idea how this controller is wired up? There are 5 wires coming out of the blower unit currently: 4 of which plug into the stock gypsy controller, while 1 seems to be the power point. This was formerly shorted with one of the 4 wires earlier (see diag in prev post).



Heres what I think: Points 1/2/3/4 lead to the 2 LED's in the front of the control unit. where should these be plugged in?



Points 5/6 (yellow/black wires terminating in a 2 point socket) seem to be either the power/ground wires or the switch wires to the Compressor. The pins 7/8/9/10 might be plugging into the 4 wires coming out of the blower currently.

Can someone look at his switch setup and explain? How does the cooling control on this controller work? How is that connected to my compressor?

PS: I went to an accomplished AC installer in Bangalore with my problem earlier today, and specifically asked that he wire up the Switching using the power points and ACC taps I have made for him. I had already tested the blowers with my own power taps to confirm they work.

Despite that, the FIRST thing that his staff did is to attempt to cut my stock loom which I had taped up so carefully. :FRUSTRATED:

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by COUGAR

Anyone here has any idea how this controller is wired up? There are 5 wires coming out of the blower unit currently: 4 of which plug into the stock gypsy controller, while 1 seems to be the power point. This was formerly shorted with one of the 4 wires earlier (see diag in prev post).

You have an ON off/ fan speed switch.

Then the temp control, which basically needs to be wired to the thermostat which sits inside the cooling coil/blower side.

The AC comp On and Fan only lights, that would be wired internally if am not mistaken.

You have access to a multi meter? If so use it to figure out which is which. That would be the easiest way out. Or make a simple tester lamp and use it to figure out the wires.

[benkoch]

Hello everyone, I have a hard top Gypsy King (MPFI) that I bought as a new one back in Nov 2011. Its in stock condition. Among the few modifications I need, fitting an AC is the first thing I want to do.

Can you guys guide me on what compressor, condenser, etc that I should use and the details of the setup, things like - placement of the condenser/compressor? will I need an extra electric fan? can I keep the stock radiator or will I need to switch to a larger one?

Also, please recommend a reliable garage in Bangalore that has had experience fitting ACs on Gypsys and Jeeps, one that is guaranteed to do a good job? I live in JP Nagar, would be nice if there's a garage nearby, though I wouldn't mind a distant one if it is good. Thanks!

[Gear-ge]

The one thing you must keep in mind - they tend to remove some sort of a drip trey that prevents water getting in to the cabin from the ventilator grills on the bonnet to fix the a/c. Invariably, this leads to water dripping down on the feet of the driver and passenger when it rains. I am not sure exactly how this happens but you should see this is prevented when the a/c goes in.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by benkoch

Can you guys guide me on what compressor, condenser, etc that I should use and the details of the setup, things like - placement of the condenser/compressor? will I need an extra electric fan? can I keep the stock radiator or will I need to switch to a larger one?

Also, please recommend a reliable garage in Bangalore that has had experience fitting ACs on Gypsys and Jeeps, one that is guaranteed to do a good job?

You can check the installation details in this post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post2713337

Go for the smallest compressor, i used a 505 so that the load is minimal on engine and can avoid over heating. If you don't have back seat passengers all the while, then best is to partition the rear with plastic curtain etc and go with small compressor. Also a variable geometry compressor would also reduce load on engine and keep it cool. But it will be much more expensive.

I would suggest Wecool near brigade's since he is an exclusive ac guy and has done many installs.

Yes you will need to fit an additional electric fan in front, which can be connected to the compressor to keep the cooling and temperature under control. No need for upgraded radiator if the install is done proper.

[tsk1979]

I had the opportunity to look at an Air conditioning gypsy of a friend who had fitted an AC in his 1.3 MPFI gypsy and now AC would trip in hot weather during slow speed runs.
He had fitted a high power electric fan.

A visual inspection showed the problem.
We think a fan is enough. But its not.
A fan should direct the cold air from outside to the condenser and then the hot air should go down, below the vehicle.

How to achieve this. You use a shroud.
So a jugaad fiberglass shroud was made, and then plastic was used so that all air goes under the vehicle after hitting fins.

On the vehicle front, another shroud was fitted onto the electric fan for cooling engine(I am not sure whether its a stock fan or a new more powerful fan).

Observations
1. Vehicle heats up at a slower rate
2. AC never cuts off now.

Having air flow is not enough, you need proper air flow.

[anupmathur]

By far the most effective AC for a Gypsy is obtained by placing the condenser on the roof, angled at about 30 or 45°.
If looks don't bother you, and you want performance, this is the way to go. A SuperKing blower unit on the inside will need to be fitted below the dash, slightly obstructing the available leg room.
The condenser will have to have electric fans fitted as well, for traffic jam conditions.
While on the highway the RAM effect of air will usually keep the fans turned off.

[benkoch]

Also a variable geometry compressor would also reduce load on engine and keep it cool. But it will be much more expensive.

Do you know of any specific brand/model of geometric compressor, approximate price and where I can find one?

I would suggest Wecool near brigade's since he is an exclusive ac guy and has done many installs.

I spoke to Jagadish at Wecool. He quoted a labour charge of Rs5000 for the install, mentioned that slow city traffic will cause the engine to heat as much as for the needle to go a little above the mid-way mark. He then directed me to a nearby shop called Cool Aid for the AC parts.

The person at Cool Aid quoted Rs38,000 for the parts, which he said are new and branded. This includes a Super King blower, Delphi 14/18 condenser and Sanden 507 compressor and the rest of the parts.

I need air-conditioning for the whole car, not just the front passengers. So is the Sanden 507 good enough, and how much of a load will it be on the engine and mileage (I get between 11-12 kmpl in city driving conditions currently)?

And do you think the cost is reasonable? (I was hoping it would be around 30-35k) And is it reliable enough to last at least 3 years?

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by benkoch

Do you know of any specific brand/model of geometric compressor, approximate price and where I can find one?

Ask Tobias he knows best and the feasability.

I spoke to Jagadish at Wecool.
======
The person at Cool Aid quoted Rs38,000 for the parts, which he said are new and branded. This includes a Super King blower, Delphi 14/18 condenser and Sanden 507 compressor and the rest of the parts.
=======
So is the Sanden 507 good enough, and how much of a load will it be on the engine and mileage (I get between 11-12 kmpl in city driving conditions currently)?

And do you think the cost is reasonable? (I was hoping it would be around 30-35k) And is it reliable enough to last at least 3 years?

Try catching the old man (Tobias) itself. And get them to buy parts etc, he might be able to get a better rate??

507 more than enough and you will lose 1-2 kmpl depending on drive conditions. And yes AC installs generally lasts for years, unless tampered with. Costs keep varying year on year and depending on the season, summers generally costs increases.