[pach]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

Nope not a typo, 0-1000 meters...

Thanks ZK, could you please quote the source. If elantra can overtake cruze from behind after reaching 100kmph, it is the car of this segment. I will have to test drive elantra just to experience this.

[Adit]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

Alright, all that was vivid!

@Adit - Are you implying that Elantra's 6 airbags, ESP, ABS w/ EBD, VSM, speed and impact sensing door, would not increase the chances of surviving at 140 km/h compared to Cruze's 2 Airbags and ABS only safety features?

This is where the Indian markets gets me worried. A similar pattern was noticed with Duster too, where the company is not even selling airbags equipped petrol version! This brings me to my original point, I find Hyundai has matured as a company and understands its priorities rather than over promising or creating a functionless value in a product.

Also, lets not say Koreans do this for this market only, if you see the GLOBAL SALES of Elantra, you will notice the revolution is happening everywhere, all the consumers are waking up to this realization that its not just about power or brand, its also about function and practicality.
'Sheer driving' pleasure... Ive been asking everyone to explain what it means!!! Like I explained, it means comfort to me, what is your definition? Please guys, lets be reasonable Also, what does luxury mean to you if not the best in its class features?

Whats the point of taking your car to 140 kmph and fearing that there might a possibility that it "may-not" follow your instructions when "most-needed". For me, driving at whatever speed is fine, but I would not really rely on the Airbags to open-up and save my life. Rather, I would go for a Car which behaves the way I want it to. So, by that I mean the Cruze's steering / handling / precision is much better than Elantra at high speeds.

May be I have rubbed a lot of "hyundai fans" the wrong-way in this Forum. Its always, good to have healthy discussions.

[Adit]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

P.S. Why is Chevrolet selling Cruze in India without ESP? When that comes standard in USA? From the logic of some members on this forum - does that signify Chevrolet knows Indians don't care about safety and just go with whats popular and big?

Agree with you on this point. They should get ESP as a standard feature in India. May be the 2013 upgrade which is expected soon will take care of this.

Hope for the best.

[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by pach

Thanks ZK, could you please quote the source. If elantra can overtake cruze from behind after reaching 100kmph, it is the car of this segment. I will have to test drive elantra just to experience this.

It was in the current Overdrive Mag.

Originally Posted by Adit

Whats the point of taking your car to 140 kmph and fearing that there might a possibility that it "may-not" follow your instructions when "most-needed". For me, driving at whatever speed is fine, but I would not really rely on the Airbags to open-up and save my life. Rather, I would go for a Car which behaves the way I want it to. So, by that I mean the Cruze's steering / handling / precision is much better than Elantra at high speeds.

May be I have rubbed a lot of "hyundai fans" the wrong-way in this Forum. Its always, good to have healthy discussions.

You missed the VSM & ESP, wanna comment on that too?

Have you driven Elantra at high speed?

P.S. Im far from being a Hyundai fan, but Im surely a big fan of good product with great fucntion

[Adit]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

You missed the VSM & ESP, wanna comment on that too?

Have you driven Elantra at high speed?

P.S. Im far from being a Hyundai fan, but Im surely a big fan of good product with great fucntion

(mod please merge these two)

Yes, I have driven Elantra at around 90-100 kmph immediately after taking TD of Cruze. Elantra's ride was a bit bouncy at higher speeds and the steering felt just too sensitive compared to Cruze. And I am saying all this because people in the Car felt a lot more comfortable / safe in Cruze even at around 110-120 kmph. Unfortunately, there are not enough roads in Mumbai to TD your car at that speed, so went all the way to BWSL for a spin. And was completely sure / satisfied with Cruze anyday over Elantra, specially in this department.

No doubt, Elantra is packaged well, but its not the Car for enthusiast's like me despite of all the features it offers.

[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by Adit

No doubt, Elantra is packaged well, but its not the Car for enthusiast's like me despite of all the features it offers.

Totally appreciate your honest feedback.

But please help me understand what do you mean when you say 'little bouncy at high speeds' and sensitive steering (is sensitive steering bad)? Is it a tangible thing or is it something you felt in your mind? 'Coz probably Im not an enthusiast and I dont understand these terms which people use around here. Also, do share what 'driving pleasure' means for you.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

Totally appreciate your honest feedback.

But please help me understand what do you mean when you say 'little bouncy at high speeds' and sensitive steering (is sensitive steering bad)? Is it a tangible thing or is it something you felt in your mind? 'Coz probably Im not an enthusiast and I dont understand these terms which people use around here. Also, do share what 'driving pleasure' means for you.

Most steerings on hyundai have no feel (in my fiesta for example you can feel if its goes over a stone) and also they are vague (in the sense that they are not linear and there is some amount of play). So at high speeds, the steering, if its not linear and doesnt have enough feedback, it becomes difficult to judge how much you actually have to steer, say, to avoid something. Couple that with the suspension which is soft (very good for city speeds), it can get "scary". I have had these scary moments in my i20 (especially when fully loaded) and have had to reduce speed to control the car (thankfully the brakes are excellent). This usually happens on roads that are uneven (undulating with lots of bumps) and worse is if this is on a curve. I tested the same during my Elantra TD(felt the damping was not enough, with some vertical movement). Though its better than the Verna and I20, there is still a lot of scope for improvement. Even the Jetta's steering has less feel (than fiesta for example) but its very linear, but the suspension is the best and it has phenomenal grip.
BTW, whats the service interval for new Hyundais? I am leaving my I20 for service tomorrow and for some reason Hyundai says service it every 6 months or 10K kms. Each service costs about 6K.

[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by shivasuma

Most steerings on hyundai have no feel (in my fiesta for example you can feel if its goes over a stone) and also they are vague (in the sense that they are not linear and there is some amount of play). So at high speeds, the steering, if its not linear and doesnt have enough feedback, it becomes difficult to judge how much you actually have to steer, say, to avoid something.

Finally a more clear explanation of Feedback

So this is what makes driving fun for some people and thats why people call Hyundai and Electronic steering as Videogame type, with no tactile feedback. More clear now and yes I would agree that is not fun to drive on a highway where you have a long stretch of road where you can actually enjoy the thrill of driving rather than comfort of dirving. But in the end, 80% of the time, for me, I'll be driving in the city when I'll be more focused at getting from point A to B comfortably, but on highway, Im sure a steering with tactile feedback would be definitely more fun... though even then, after 30-60 mins you will be back to feeling the need to relax and enjoy the comforts rather than the thrill.

And I agree, at high speed, it will be better to feel in contact with the road rather than feeling 'Virtual'. But happily, I felt quite confident & happy with Elantra at 120. But Verna was definitely flighty, even the girls started panicking at the rear, when we drove with few friends!

Thanks for your post.

[raul]

Interesting discussion, this is a car forum and perhaps thats why handling is not being defined, its taken for granted folks know what it is. However Zen's points are valid, a lot of reviews can get vague and not give the reader precise and specific evidence to support their conclusions. So the new Elantra does not 'handle as well' as the Jetta (BTW most reviews rate Jetta as the best handling FWD car) It would be useful to precisely articulate how with many use cases.

To me handling is one of the 'big' differentiators and fundamental engineering of a vehicle. Its a measure since cars were made, you not find a single car review which does not mention handling. We all know for instance a RWD can be a better handler and more fun around bends because it will oversteer giving drivers an opportunity to correct rather than understeer and head for the pole. But this is gross oversimplification, lots of other factors at play, Scorpio is RWD but you won't take any chances with that.

For some this could be important, for others fuel efficiency or comfort could. Some of us don't go fast, they will not value handling, some of us do not necessarily go fast but are enthusiasts and would like to have a car that handles well rather than one that doesn't. Doesn't mean folks will be speeding, just that the capability is there if needed.

Hyundai's have traditionally been 'bad handlers', of course things have improved but still not enough to challenge cars like Jetta which are much better 'sorted'. But highly overpriced and delivering poor value in India.

What does 'handling' mean, what does 'sorted' mean. You need to head to the ghats and push both the Jetta and Elantra within your limits to feel this. To me it means a well engineered suspension and balance of the car, so that when your are entering or exiting a fast bend the car maintains its line with minimum fuss. It doesn't waver on straight roads, doesn't wallow on bends, suspension settles and is not jumpy for minor road undulations, responds precisely to steering inputs and gives you confidence.

Everything affects handling from height, lower the better, to tyre types. A far better explanation here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_handling

[Adit]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

Totally appreciate your honest feedback.

But please help me understand what do you mean when you say 'little bouncy at high speeds' and sensitive steering (is sensitive steering bad)? Is it a tangible thing or is it something you felt in your mind? 'Coz probably Im not an enthusiast and I dont understand these terms which people use around here. Also, do share what 'driving pleasure' means for you.

Sorry couldn't get back to you yesterday on this. But, I think Shivasuma sumed it up well and I agree with his comments completely.

For some more information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVL03GoAYlk

Its the Autocar India review on Elantra done by Kartikeya Singhee. After 7 mins into the video, he has addressed issues with Elantra nicely.

[zen kobane]

Originally Posted by Adit

Its the Autocar India review on Elantra done by Kartikeya Singhee. After 7 mins into the video, he has addressed issues with Elantra nicely.

This guy gives some of the most balanced and unbiased reviews! You should see him turn into a puppy when he TDed an Aventador!

[gaurav2703]

Sneak-a-peek: First look at my new Hyundai Elantra Bronze SX CRDi, getting it delivered on 24th

[raul]

Nice! Congrats Gaurav! Looks a stunner, there a nearly liquid look about the rear lights. Excellent job from Hyundai on the design. Look forward to your ownership thread!

[sunny310c]

Originally Posted by zen kobane

@sunny310c - So Cruze isnt a back seat car? Why am I noticing this pattern around here that people actually buy Cruze thinking its a 2 seater, sports car?!

You can get those bells and whistles, but if you end up spending so much money getting aftermarket safety kits (dont even know if that works) im sure you can then increase your budget to the next segment! And same goes with Elantra, if one needs to get the engine, they can just move one segment up, to an Accord, Superb or Sonata.

Well, about the Cruze not being a back seat car, that is typical of a car that is fun to drive, isn't it? The Cruze is definitely not a car to be chauffeured around in. If you buy the Cruze and sit at the back most of the time, you have wasted your money.

As for the bells and whistles, I was referring to features like the Silica tyres, the automatic headlamps, the revers camera, the ORVM with turn indicators etc. Am not sure you can get safety features like ESP, VSM and EBD as aftermarket kits so those are ruled out, which is why I think the only major area the Cruze loses to competition is the safety features. A Cruze with ESP, EBD, VSM like features would be just about perfect.

Originally Posted by zen kobane

P.S. Why is Chevrolet selling Cruze in India without ESP? When that comes standard in USA? From the logic of some members on this forum - does that signify Chevrolet knows Indians don't care about safety and just go with whats popular and big?

I have asked myself the same question. Why would Chevy not provide some of the safety features which are standard in Europe and USA to its customers here, especially in a car that easily touches triple digit speeds. I think the increased cost is one reason but more importantly, I think in the US and Europe, those features are quite standard in the market, while they aren't so here in India, at least they weren't when the Cruze was introduced here. Of course now, Chevy will have to rethink as all of its competitors seem to have those features. I would be surprised if the new Chevy Cruze, whenever it comes out, doesn't have the Stabilitrak system.

Originally Posted by Adit

Agree with you on this point. They should get ESP as a standard feature in India. May be the 2013 upgrade which is expected soon will take care of this.

Hope for the best.

Am hoping for the same buddy. By the way, any idea when the 2013 upgrade is expected. The last I heard, the time frame was around March 2013.

@zen kobane, raul and shivasuma have explained what it means for a car to be a driver's car or an enthusiasts car but I just wanted to add my two cents worth.

I drove both the Cruze manual and Elantra diesel manual on the same stretch of road (which is a stretch of abandoned road with zero traffic). In the Cruze, half way down the stretch, I was surprised to see the car doing 100+ because it just didn't feel that fast. The car was just as steady and firm as it is at low speeds. I had to slow down because I was doing this in torrential rain but the Cruze was eager for more. In the Elantra, I could tell the speed. The car just didn't feel as planted as the Cruze and was picking up little undulations. As for the steering, although it stiffened up a bit, it didn't feel connected to the wheels. And like I said earlier, my wife complained of a wallowing feeling at the back.

To give you a feel of the difference, I remember seeing this program on the F-16 fighter aircraft on Discovery a few years ago where the pilot describes flying the F-16 as different from flying other aircrafts because while you sit in other aircrafts to fly them, in the F-16, you feel like you have strapped on the jet to your back. You get that same feeling with the Cruze, or at least I did.

@gaurav2703, congratulations. She looks beautiful but more pictures please.

[drasitkhanna]

Originally Posted by gaurav2703

Sneak-a-peek: First look at my new Hyundai Elantra Bronze SX CRDi, getting it delivered on 24th

Thanks Gaurav for the first look of the Bronze Elantra .i was searching high and low for this shade ... The idiot dealers in GZb don't even have a shade card or model . Last MR Hyundai offered me was to take a look at a Santro with this new color , but that also could not be done for some reason.
PLEASE can you post more pics ?? I'm sure you would have taken more !
It would really help me decide between this color and white . TIA