[Contrapunto]

Originally Posted by geotracks

Alternatively competition charges more during annual maintenance. So net-net end customer pays almost similar....initial high vehicle cost + relatively lower maintenance (for TOYOTAS) OR initial slightly lower costs + slightly higher maintenance annually (COMPITITION).

Interesting, wonder what others on this forum think.

IMO, the upfront "capital" cost, for most folks, is either funded by debt (loans) or by some kind of company ownership programs. The running costs are typically "from your pocket". So most consumers tend to be biased towards lower lifetime costs (something they see/feel every time they service) over the upfront cost of purchase, which gets hidden either in the EMI figure, or salary computation adjustments.

And of course, unless you have a dependable chauffer, servicing can be mean the day being quite unproductive from the work perspective. As an owner of an old Innova and a new Ertiga, I can confirm at least my experience that the Maruti is both more expensive, as well as troublesome to maintain. I should have stuck to another pre-owned Innova at the same cost. Multiply this experience by lakhs of car-owners every month, and you can see how perceptions build up over time.

I don't wonder why Innova, Fortuner and Altis continues to sell the way they do. I know why !!

What do others think?

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

As an owner of an old Innova and a new Ertiga, I can confirm at least my experience that the Maruti is both more expensive, as well as troublesome to maintain. I should have stuck to another pre-owned Innova at the same cost. Multiply this experience by lakhs of car-owners every month, and you can see how perceptions build up over time.

I don't wonder why Innova, Fortuner and Altis continues to sell the way they do. I know why !!

What do others think?

Very insightful comment, indeed. I never knew this. If we look at pure sales chart, MUL is peaking the charts. Though I never owned a Maruti, reading forums always suggested Maruti parts & labor are more 'affordable' as compared to corresponding international competitors (Toyota, Honda, VW, Hyundai etc.). Now I am getting to read this viewpoint.

[5kmiles]

Originally Posted by geotracks

Very insightful comment, indeed. I never knew this. If we look at pure sales chart, MUL is peaking the charts. Though I never owned a Maruti, reading forums always suggested Maruti parts & labor are more 'affordable' as compared to corresponding international competitors (Toyota, Honda, VW, Hyundai etc.). Now I am getting to read this viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

IMO, the upfront "capital" cost, for most folks, is either funded by debt (loans) or by some kind of company ownership programs. The running costs are typically "from your pocket". So most consumers tend to be biased towards lower lifetime costs (something they see/feel every time they service) over the upfront cost of purchase, which gets hidden either in the EMI figure, or salary computation adjustments.

And of course, unless you have a dependable chauffer, servicing can be mean the day being quite unproductive from the work perspective. As an owner of an old Innova and a new Ertiga, I can confirm at least my experience that the Maruti is both more expensive, as well as troublesome to maintain. I should have stuck to another pre-owned Innova at the same cost. Multiply this experience by lakhs of car-owners every month, and you can see how perceptions build up over time.

I don't wonder why Innova, Fortuner and Altis continues to sell the way they do. I know why !!

What do others think?

I have owned two WagonR - one bought in 2003 and other in 2011. My other car is Tata Manza. Have never experiences Toyota service but everyone speaks highly about it. Though, my experience with Maruti has been very good too. Just what will definitely make Toyotas cheaper to maintain is probably almost negligible niggles and breakdowns - which is definitely not the case with other brands (except Toyota and Honda). Also, Maruti has been steadily raising its service costs (perception only - do not track).

For my Tata, I have not experienced huge issues with service either. But yes, it needs me to be on the phone with my driver while car gets serviced. Tata is definitely improving and I will pick them over some of the European service. It has bit more niggly character - but is cheap to fix too.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

I don't wonder why Innova, Fortuner and Altis continues to sell the way they do. I know why !!

What do others think?

Most of the Toyota Owners know why :0...as for others, own it to believe it!

[Aroongupta]

Originally Posted by xbox360

Guys I can do with some help here. After selling my Safari mid last year, I have been looking for a 7 seater (or a 5+2 seater like the Safari was). Have been utterly confused and hence passed time following various trails -

Storme Refresh
+ve - Price
-ve - reliability, longevity and the expected lack of fanfare in the interiors even in the refresh

Fortuner (Had booked this one end of last year and I can take delivery on this when I wish)
+ve - Reliability
-ve - Price, again lack of gizmos at its price point and the biggest of all the looming 2016 Fortuner launch which I am worried will have a significant impact on valuation of current model

Innova
+ve - The practical Fortuner , more space for half the price (he dealership is more than willing to change my booking from Fortuner to Innova)
-ve - Looks (feels a step down coming from prior SUV ownership), 2016 refresh like with the Fortuner which I think may impact valuation

Ford Endeavour
+ve - Expected price competitiveness w.r.t Fortuner and its modern and well stocked interiors
-ve - Owned an ikon before so I know its maintenance/parts will not come cheap, furthermore the launch date is still TBD and I can't push my purchase to last this year

I have discounted the Pajero, and am not considering any mini MUVs like the Ertiga, Mobilio (also don't like the looks of the Lodgy)

Will appreciate any insights, thoughts from the community that can help me close on a decision fast.

Discounting Pajero is fine...discounting Pajero Sport may not be!

I recently wanted to get rid of of my 2 yo BMW 320D. Wanted to replace it with a SUV. Was quite clear in my mind that Fortuner is what it will be. Someone suggested Pajero Sport and I remember having outrightly rejected!

I checked with a few owner friends of Fortuner and almost everybody had mixed responses. While everybody went ga-ga about the patton tank build quality, ruggedness, looks, low maintenance, none seemed to admire its ride quality. They said its bumpy and end of the day the vehicle does not feel comfortable on long drives. Now I would say - what's the point then? End of the day you must have a good ride! That's the prime objective of a car. So I decided to survey and TD.

I had already handed over my BMW so it was not easy to wait. Notwithstanding the fact that I had other cars in the garage, but then...you know...

I ended up looking for around 2-3 months. Considered all options and finally zeroed down and QUITE EMPHATICALLY so on Pajero Sport - the one which I out rightly rejected at the start. I have just done 5000K on the car, but man, lemme tell you, I am thoroughly enjoying it. ABSOLUTELY. I have been driving for over 20 years now and have had many cars, but the love affair I am enjoying with the Pajero Sport is something I did not even have with the BMW...which I believe from a driver's standpoint is just a mind blowing car. Anyhow that is besides the point.

Unless you have some solid reasons, do look at the PS.

My humble views on each of the contenders -

1) Safari Storme - I have it. Not the storme but the dicor 3.0. Its good. Decent. I like the looks. Have been driving it for years. Has taken me places. I love it. But its a Tata. The build quality is not great. It will shatter and chatter and do all that with time. Second - It is just not refined as any of the other cars you mentioned.

Prime reason to go for it - You want to save on a lot of money and still have a decent enough SUV and are fine being in the lower segment.

2) Fortuner - The new car will not give you any novelty factor. There are just too many on the road. A new version will come soon.

Prime reason to go for it - If peace of mind and lower maintenance cost drives you - Go for it!

3) Innova - What shall I say. Highly Overpriced and absolutely no fun! But very comfortable and proven. Go for it for its proven quality. Space for family. Decent performance. and if you are sure that you need 'zero kick' when you buy a new car. A non-luxurious vanilla family car!

4) For Endeavour - No you don't want to go for it!

5) Rextron - Again No.

6_ Isuzu MU7 - Now this car surprised me. Mindblowing engine. Unimaginable space. Was most fun to drive. Enjoyed an excellent ride quality. But the features, and fancies are just not there. You will get a feel of the yesteryear and wonder if there has been any technology improvement that have happened in last 20 years? I could sense that the car will start the chatters after some time. Still - Have a look. Do a test drive. It can be a surprise package.

7) Santafe - Excellent quality. Best features. Best drive - but a city car! I will not call it a SUV.

8) Pajero Sport - You must have had your reasons to discount it but lemme try and give you as honest a feedback as possible. It comes with Impeccable build quality. Mind blowing off-roading capabilities. Excellent interiors. Full feature set. Superb drive. Decent price. Snob value - you still have very limited on the road - especially if you buy the double tone. Bads - Mitsubishi as a car brand has not been growing. Other cars in the stable have been discontinued. Limited dealer network. Costlier ASS as compared to Fortuner (heard... not experienced). Not great fuel economy.

But purely as a vehicle, as I said...I wait to drive...every single day! Especially after completely upgrading the audio arrangement.

Mod Note : Please do NOT use acronyms (e.g. ANHC, T-Fort, ANHV) when referring to cars. You are ONLY permitted to use the full Make & Model name for cars. This will make our content useful, searchable & easy-to-understand for experts & newbies alike.

Any further usage of acronyms will invite Moderator action on your account.

Thanks!

[xbox360]

Originally Posted by Aroongupta

Discounting Pajero is fine...discounting Pajero Sport may not be!

Thanks![/b]

Thanks Arron for sharing this detailed recommendation. W.r.t the Pajero Sport I actually discounted the manufacturer and not the vehicle.

Based on what you and others in this thread have suggested, I am going to wait a couple of weeks for the 'upcoming Storme' and if that turns out to be a dud then I in all probability will go in for the current gen Innova.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by xbox360

Thanks Arron for sharing this detailed recommendation. W.r.t the Pajero Sport I actually discounted the manufacturer and not the vehicle.

Based on what you and others in this thread have suggested, I am going to wait a couple of weeks for the 'upcoming Storme' and if that turns out to be a dud then I in all probability will go in for the current gen Innova.

The only issue is you will need to wait for at least 1-2 years to understand long term reliability of newly launched vehicles. all the test drives in the world cannot answer the long term reliability and peace of mind question

[Aroongupta]

Originally Posted by xbox360

W.r.t the Pajero Sport I actually discounted the manufacturer and not the vehicle.

I understand. Same was my concern too. But what I learnt is - and some better connected folks out here will need to confirm this - Mitsubishi's contract with HM is over. They are planning to launch 2 cars in this year. They are slowly but steadily growing the dealerships. Like they have 2 in Delhi and one is Ghaziabad but soon I learnt that they are opening one in Noida.

I guess the HM marriage was bad. Divorce proceedings are now done! After a slow start the pajero sport has ben catching the imagination of buyers. Better days for the brand seem to be coming...

Going by your reply, and with all due respect, guess you are currently not very comfortable with a Fortuner or a Pajero Sport also for the price bracket they fall in. Its perfectly fine if that's the case. Pardon me if I assumed it wrong. No offence meant. But if true, in the lower price segment - Innova - for good comfortable ride without any iota of pride; Safari - for not the best of the experience in terms of maintenance but a sense of youthful pride and a bit of adrenalin rush here and there.

[gragusha]

Originally Posted by hondadude

I bought my 4x4 Automatic Fortuner a week and a half back....

Hi hondadude - have you been given a delivery date (or have you already got delivery? - in that case initial ownership comments/review will be nice ). Which colour did you pick up.

Thanks

[hondadude]

Originally Posted by gragusha

Hi hondadude - have you been given a delivery date (or have you already got delivery? - in that case initial ownership comments/review will be nice ). Which colour did you pick up.

Thanks

Got my car in Feb 1st week. Bought a white one. Fortuner has been around for such a long time that I don't have any new insights/comments that haven't already been covered in other reviews or the official review . OK, I will get out of my lazy mode and try to put something up in the weekend.

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by hondadude

OK, I will get out of my lazy mode and try to put something up in the weekend.

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS to you on your prized possession.

White Fortuner looks cool. Do post some nice pictures too.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by xbox360

Guys I can do with some help here. After selling my Safari mid last year, I have been looking for a 7 seater (or a 5+2 seater like the Safari was). Have been utterly confused and hence passed time following various trails

I have discounted the Pajero, and am not considering any mini MUVs like the Ertiga, Mobilio (also don't like the looks of the Lodgy)

Will appreciate any insights, thoughts from the community that can help me close on a decision fast.

I was in the same boat until last year, I wanted to sell my 2012 Safari GX , not because it was giving problems on the contrary, because I had got bored with it.. I checked out the Fortuner, the Endevour and even the Pajeri Sport, before I reluctantly took a test drive of the new Storme.
I was surprised at the amount of improvements and refinement compared to the earlier iterations and the fact that it looked so composed and smooth, the difference in the harsh ride quality of the Fortuner stood out so glaringly. Along with the 4 year gold warranty and comprehensive insurance peace of mind was also assured. Now with almost 10 months of ownership and 13 k kms under the belt, the Storme is a refined, fuss free long distance cruiser which I hoped for, with zero niggles or issues. I am glad that I got the Storme and saved a bundle of cash not going for the Fortuner.

Originally Posted by Aroongupta

My humble views on each of the contenders -

1) Safari Storme - I have it. Not the storme but the dicor 3.0. Its good. Decent. I like the looks. Have been driving it for years. Has taken me places. I love it. But its a Tata. The build quality is not great. It will shatter and chatter and do all that with time. Second - It is just not refined as any of the other cars you mentioned.

Prime reason to go for it - You want to save on a lot of money and still have a decent enough SUV and are fine being in the lower segment.

.

Thanks![/b]

Sorry to step in, please don't misguide people. The 3 litre Dicor or even the 2.2 litre Dicor is far removed from the Storme, everything from the chassis to the mechanicals to the plastics to the build quality , look and feel, tactiles and the refinement have been super upgraded. Commenting without driving is not acceptable for any car, especially when guiding other members. It's similar to comparing a Indica to the Bolt or Zest, or a Bolero to the Xuv..

[xbox360]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I was in the same boat until last year, I wanted to sell my 2012 Safari GX , not because it was giving problems on the contrary, because I had got bored with it.. I checked out the Fortuner, the Endevour and even the Pajeri Sport, before I reluctantly took a test drive of the new Storme.
I was surprised at the amount of improvements and refinement compared to the earlier iterations and the fact that it looked so composed and smooth, the difference in the harsh ride quality of the Fortuner stood out so glaringly. Along with the 4 year gold warranty and comprehensive insurance peace of mind was also assured. Now with almost 10 months of ownership and 13 k kms under the belt, the Storme is a refined, fuss free long distance cruiser which I hoped for, with zero niggles or issues. I am glad that I got the Storme and saved a bundle of cash not going for the Fortuner.


Sorry to step in, please don't misguide people. The 3 litre Dicor or even the 2.2 litre Dicor is far removed from the Storme, everything from the chassis to the mechanicals to the plastics to the build quality , look and feel, tactiles and the refinement have been super upgraded. Commenting without driving is not acceptable for any car, especially when guiding other members. It's similar to comparing a Indica to the Bolt or Zest, or a Bolero to the Xuv..

Just what I was waiting to hear . Thanks, will wait out another couple of weeks to see the Storme refresh in flesh and decide from there.

[Sheel]

If you have 30 big ones & wish to splurge on a car, I do not think a Storme/XUV comes into picture at all.

And those who are comparing, well, my new 4WD Scorpio too has much better and sorted ride, so...? If ride is a criteria, get the Duster [I personally have short experience of it behind the wheel, but I am saying going by forum history]

Fortuner has much better bolstered seats. In a 4X4 with correct air pressure, ride is not as bad as said by many.

And a car's reliability cannot be compared with 1 sample size. Everyone knows, in general, a Toyota is reliable.

I personally would have checked out a Pajero Sports [head says Fortuner] and the upcoming Ford Endevour along with the Toyota Fortuner.

[lambodara]

Great review! Hopefully my brother won't buy a second fortunes after reading this!!
Fortuner was dated the day it was launched, it never impressed me with what it is but that's my personal thoughts. Ask my bruised elbow after a long drive!
Cheers.