[adimicra]

Originally Posted by 9thsphinx

I've just been told by the Service dept @ Honda that it is a genuine issue and is related to some faulty transmission bearings. Apparently there are lots of threads on the same issue on different cars, when Googled. I've been told this could be a manufacturing fault and they will need to unhaul the transmission, replace the bearings, test drive the car to make sure the issue is fixed and then only will it be delivered back. A 4-5 hr 2nd free service has been lengthened to a 4-5 day problem of non-availability of my car :( My concern is just how can such a problem crop so early in a new car?

This is really scary. What happened to Honda reliability?
Please make sure that this is a real issue. I am scared to give the car for such internal repairs as I feel it can become even worse. I don't trust the service guys here.
Please drive fee other Jazz and see if the issue is there. I will test out my car and see if it is present in my car as well.

[devarshi84]

I have to say mine runs like an electric car. No NVH issues. Exceptions are times like early mornings or when the engine is redlined. But now that you have said it, I will try to notice the sound and post feedback.

[S_U_N]

I am considering Jazz as my next car (if I get good discounts).

Has anyone driven Jazz with 4 adults and luggage on hills/ ghats?

Please comment on the
1. handling,
2. body roll and
3. performance
(someone mentioned that car is sluggish and begs for more power, but that is in terms of speed above 120 - which I won't exceed in any case).

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

I am considering Jazz as my next car (if I get good discounts).

Has anyone driven Jazz with 4 adults and luggage on hills/ ghats?

Please comment on the
1. handling,
2. body roll and
3. performance
(someone mentioned that car is sluggish and begs for more power, but that is in terms of speed above 120 - which I won't exceed in any case).

Jazz has lots of power but the power comes up higher in the rev band, mostly above 2500-3000 rpm.
Handling is good and body roll is limited, better than most cars except may be the Punto/Figo.
Actually, higher speed driving is where the Jazz shines because of the rev-happy nature of the engine. The acceleration keeps on increasing right till the redline. It has a true top speed of 176 kmph (with the speedo showing 185+), which is the best among all the hatches.
Where it lacks is the low-end grunt/response. So, if you don't mind shifting gears when in a hurry, you will not be disappointed.

[S_U_N]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Where it lacks is the low-end grunt/response. So, if you don't mind shifting gears when in a hurry, you will not be disappointed.

Thanks.
Does that mean, that while climbing inclines (especially hair-pin bends), I would have to shift to first?
I can understand it won't climb inclines in third, but what about second?

I am not really a fast driver (I am pretty new to driving itself!), so those max values are of no practical use to me.

[biyer]

Originally Posted by adimicra

This is really scary. What happened to Honda reliability?
Please make sure that this is a real issue. I am scared to give the car for such internal repairs as I feel it can become even worse. I don't trust the service guys here.
Please drive fee other Jazz and see if the issue is there. I will test out my car and see if it is present in my car as well.

Guys, some of the symptoms are not clear like RPM before and after clutch. There are other variables too. I really can think of only my second gear induced jerks as complaint. My second service is due now and I need to sort out what are my attention areas. I was wondeirng if some of you would like to join for a con-call to discuss?

[biyer]

Originally Posted by Devrishi

Every cars setting is different and it's a matter of our driving style getting tuned to it. You are driving Jazz in the style in which you are driving your previous car or other cars that you own.

Same thing happened with me. Initially, i also thought that there is some problem with my Honda Jazz X but upon my close observation i realized that it's my driving style at fault. I worked upon it and now there is absolutely no jerk in my driving. It's the timing of release of clutch and push of accelerator that you have to work upon and it will be fine.

Regards

Devrishi

Devrishi, you are probably right about that. I hope you are! :-) I come from 10 years driving around a santro and some palio and fiat thrown in occassionally. I seriously would love it if some experienced Honda driver put up a video (of Jazz 1.2) demonstrating the timing of clutch release vs acceleration with engine behaviour at various RPMs.

Apart from that, does anyone know of any other advice thread for this timing?

[mail4ajo]

I checked on the idling issue posted. Couldnt see any difference. The Jazz's engine is very silent. Several times, I had a feeling that the engine is off. I keep looking at the tacho to confirm.

Does the car have to be heated before the issue surfaces?

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by S_U_N

Thanks.
Does that mean, that while climbing inclines (especially hair-pin bends), I would have to shift to first?
I can understand it won't climb inclines in third, but what about second?

I am not really a fast driver (I am pretty new to driving itself!), so those max values are of no practical use to me.

If you know Hyderabad, it is a city full of inclines. I have not seen any other big city in India with so much inclines, some of those are pretty steep.
The fact is - if you drive the car at lower rpms ( <2000 rpm), it is not as if the car jerks or stalls, it pulls ok but the acceleration will be tepid and might seem irritating if you want quick progress. For quick progress, downshift is required.

On another note, my car does not seem to have any issue regarding the engine sound.

[biyer]

Originally Posted by biyer

Guys, some of the symptoms are not clear like RPM before and after clutch. There are other variables too. I really can think of only my second gear induced jerks as complaint. My second service is due now and I need to sort out what are my attention areas. I was wondeirng if some of you would like to join for a con-call to discuss?

For what it is worth, I thoroughly checked today morning for brassy engine noise @ idle and found none. In fact it was absolutely silent. I did this multiple times(ignition-off and then on again) and each time I allowed the engine to idle for atleast 2 minutes and always in neutral. And during this exercise, I pressed the clutch all the way to check if there was any difference to the engine sound and there was none.

But during the course here is what I observed:

1.On cold start, the engine RPM hovers at 1400.

2. After few mins(of cold start) idling the RPM drops to about 800.

3. Subsequent reignition attempts leaves the engine at around 1000RPM and lesser.

4. Once engine is fully warmed-up (say in traffic signals etc.), the RPM is usually about 800.

Is this consistent with what you experience? What is the Honda designed RPM for idling? What is the ideal tuning for Honda Jazz?

[9thsphinx]

Originally Posted by outLANDish

Just so that I understand right, you are saying that when the car is in neutral without clutch, you hear this sound & when you press the clutch with nothing else changing the sound goes away? Is this happening when you are stationary or on the move as well?

Yes, that is precisely what I am trying to say. This happens when I am stationary for sure, and while on the move - the noise must fade out due to the other noises (traffic,tire) which is why it is almost non-existent then.

I am glad no one is having this problem. This means this is no manufacturing defect and it could very well be an isolated case that has a proper solution in the Honda books. I hope for the best. I still haven't got my car back yet from service. Will post details on the work done once the problem is fixed.

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by biyer

But during the course here is what I observed:

1.On cold start, the engine RPM hovers at 1400.

2. After few mins(of cold start) idling the RPM drops to about 800.

3. Subsequent reignition attempts leaves the engine at around 1000RPM and lesser.

4. Once engine is fully warmed-up (say in traffic signals etc.), the RPM is usually about 800.

Is this consistent with what you experience? What is the Honda designed RPM for idling? What is the ideal tuning for Honda Jazz?

This is absolutely normal for all MPFI cars. Unlike the older carburetter equipped cars the newer MPFI cars not require manual choke to start in colder climates, instead the ECU raises the RPM until and adjusts for cold start, the Engine RPM return to normal as soon as the Engine warms up.

[biyer]

Originally Posted by biyer

Whatever manufacturer-> dealer figures quoted month-on-month for Jazz vs production of 2000 vehicles atleast up until March-April 2010 does seem to indicate of stock pile still existing. You may need to dealer hunt for older models.

To date, I think honda has made about 21,000 Honda Jazz(see narration below). I am trying to figure how much of that is unsold and the size of the problem Honda has in its hands. My GUESS is that Honda has about 15000 Jazz cars lying in their parking lots- manufactured & un-sold.

And now thats what, a 1000 crore(at Rs.7 lacs invoice value) problem? Considering the backlog, is it safe to assume now in Feb 2011, they would have COMPLETELY stopped production of Jazz until stocks are sold? It seems difficult to believe that if I want a 2011 model today, I cant get it. So I am guessing some sort of intelligent production plan for 2011 might be underway but what about all those unsold cars?

Any ideas how we can go about crunching these numbers from publically available sales figures with more authority? Can anyone point to sales figures for Jazz in one place:

1. 2nd half of 2009
2. Full year of 2010
3. Jan 2011


Narration for 21000 cars made so far:
--------------------------
Assuming production launch around July 2009, Honda Jazz has been in manufacture for about 19 months. I have seen figures ranging from either 1000 cars/month to 1666 cars/month ( from comments about 20k cars/year target). I am quite sure they would have ramped down the production or completely halted it for the last 6 of those 19 months. Lets assume an average of 1333 cars producded for the first 13 months and a 50% production of 666 cars for the last 6 months.
--------------------------

[Devrishi]

Originally Posted by biyer

To date, I think honda has made about 21,000 Honda Jazz(see narration below). I am trying to figure how much of that is unsold and the size of the problem Honda has in its hands. My GUESS is that Honda has about 15000 Jazz cars lying in their parking lots- manufactured & un-sold.

And now thats what, a 1000 crore(at Rs.7 lacs invoice value) problem? Considering the backlog, is it safe to assume now in Feb 2011, they would have COMPLETELY stopped production of Jazz until stocks are sold? It seems difficult to believe that if I want a 2011 model today, I cant get it. So I am guessing some sort of intelligent production plan for 2011 might be underway but what about all those unsold cars?

Any ideas how we can go about crunching these numbers from publically available sales figures with more authority? Can anyone point to sales figures for Jazz in one place:

1. 2nd half of 2009
2. Full year of 2010
3. Jan 2011


Narration for 21000 cars made so far:
--------------------------
Assuming production launch around July 2009, Honda Jazz has been in manufacture for about 19 months. I have seen figures ranging from either 1000 cars/month to 1666 cars/month ( from comments about 20k cars/year target). I am quite sure they would have ramped down the production or completely halted it for the last 6 of those 19 months. Lets assume an average of 1333 cars producded for the first 13 months and a 50% production of 666 cars for the last 6 months.
--------------------------

As per my VIN number, my Jazz was manufactured in Nov' 2010 - @ Noida

[biyer]

Originally Posted by Devrishi

As per my VIN number, my Jazz was manufactured in Nov' 2010 - @ Noida

Thanks Devrishi for that info. This conclusively proves that production continued up until Nov 2010 for sure.