Review: 1st-gen Mahindra Thar (2011 - 2019)

slalom · 25th February 2011, 15:20

@ BD , I knew it was not that easy and you would definitely advise against it , but each time I look at the Thar from the rear ,the rear track kind of disturbed me

,I was just wondering if there was a safe and easy way to even the rear track and now the case is rested and I will never ever think about a spacer again in my whole life

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 25th February 2011, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpbopanna

Dear Mr. Behram..is there any rear axle from the Mahindra stable (SF or FF) which is a straight fit on the Thar?

An uncle of mine had fitted the rear axle on an FC on to a 2WD CJ-500D.

Dear Cpbopanna - the current Thar axle is actually a straight fit from one of our other models. That's why project cost is low so vehicle cost is competitive. We need to respect articulation clearances also. My brief to my engineers was not to change the way the vehicle looks so no changes to skin panels. Put a wider track axle, you get into articulation hassles, so you redesign body panels, so the shape changes, so the vehicle does not look like it was meant to, then we go into a design related project spin? No ways! I hope you understand.

The Thar CRDe engine's torque will break an FC axle like a twig in 1 minute flat. The aggregates are as different as apples and oranges. I can rattle off all the design differences between the two axles including gear modules and pressure angles but this is not the thread to do so.

What I am trying to impress upon you and everybody is that the "good old days" are now gone - forever. They will never come back. We need to drastically change our mindset. I know that it is hard to accept but we must do it. I trust that you / everybody will take my comments in correct prespective. I hope that one more loop of arguments does not start because it really leads nowhere. Thar CRDe is in a class of its own. Request, please do not make comparisons.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

ex670c · 25th February 2011, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpbopanna

Dear Mr. Behram..is there any rear axle from the Mahindra stable (SF or FF) which is a straight fit on the Thar?
An uncle of mine had fitted the rear axle on an FC on to a 2WD CJ-500D.

Hi Bops,

You can fit the 53" FFRA from the Bolero VLX aka Storm.

How ever the orientation of the T-Case Output to Diff-Pinion maybe a few degrees off

.

Regards,

Arka

PS - After changing the Differential Ratio.

SPIKE ARRESTOR · 25th February 2011, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

How ever the orientation of the T-Case Output to Diff-Pinion maybe a few degrees off

.

PS - After changing the Differential Ratio.

1 degree to be precise

.

Spike

PS-Arka, Storm comes with 2 pinion or 4 pinion differential?

headers · 25th February 2011, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

1 degree to be precise

.

Spike

PS-Arka, Storm comes with 2 pinion or 4 pinion differential?

Spikey, you ARE the M&M ENGINEER

BTW, 1 degree should not make a difference right?

ex670c · 25th February 2011, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR

1 degree to be precise.

Spike

PS-Arka, Storm comes with 2 pinion or 4 pinion differential?

Hi Spike,

AFAIK the 4-Pinion Carrier is for 3.73 and Below.

My Guess is Bolero "Storm" has the 4-Pinion Carrier.

Regards,

Arka

@ Headers, you are BE & MS from UK, watch it, 1Degree is enough to cause Prop-Shaft Vibration.

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 25th February 2011, 18:10

Dear Arka - thanks for your comment which I knew was coming. "After changing the differential ratio", only one such axle exists and I think you know which vehicle it is fitted to.

. I think you also know how that vehicle zooms past everything else.

There are many design parameters which are classified like the involute profile, the tooth shear strength, the tribology details etc. People have presented papers in international conferences like SAE International / FISITA and we have argued for hours on end just on one parameter out of these. I wish I could start a thread on all this but I shall not do so for obvious reasons. Just because the ratio is same, it does not mean that it is technically correct.

.

Dear all - now you decide, would you as loving owners of brand new Thar CRDe vehicles want to play around with it after knowing all this? Did any other OEM even tell you this much? Think about it. It's a jungle out there. I only request you to please be careful.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

ex670c · 25th February 2011, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Arka - thanks for your comment which I knew was coming. "After changing the differential ratio", only one such axle exists and I think you know which vehicle it is fitted to. . I think you also know how that vehicle zooms past everything else.

There are many design parameters which are classified like the involute profile, the tooth shear strength, the tribology details etc. People have presented papers in international conferences like SAE International / FISITA and we have argued for hours on end just on one parameter out of these. I wish I could start a thread on all this but I shall not do so for obvious reasons. Just because the ratio is same, it does not mean that it is technically correct.

Hi DB Sir,

53" FFRA + 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio ????I pray please tell me which vehicle.

You can share the Axle/Diff related information on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...le-debate.html

Regards,

Arka

navpreet318 · 25th February 2011, 19:08

BD sir Since the topic of offsets etc is up i'd like to ask you if the Alloys on the Thar Adventure are, according to you, correct?

I would eventually be interested in installing alloys.and it would be good to know which ones are good.

I believe they have a lesser offset than +55 because of the way the tires are jutting out of the vehicle.

headers · 25th February 2011, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Arka - thanks for your comment which I knew was coming. "After changing the differential ratio", only one such axle exists and I think you know which vehicle it is fitted to.

. I think you also know how that vehicle zooms past everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi DB Sir,

53" FFRA + 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio ????I pray please tell me which vehicle.

Dear Sir, Please share details - IIRC it is a Maroon NEF 2.49 VLX CRDe running 16" Wheels and 4.3:1 differential ratio running a different REMAP?

120 BHP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

@ Headers, 1Degree is enough to cause Prop-Shaft Vibration.

OMG, then what is the variance due to suspension travel and articulation of the axle w.r.t the Chassis/GB? There must be a tolerance upto which the design parameters would not permit prop shaft vibration. So is the tolerance in minutes then? LOL

cpbopanna · 26th February 2011, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Bops,

You can fit the 53" FFRA from the Bolero VLX aka Storm.

How ever the orientation of the T-Case Output to Diff-Pinion maybe a few degrees off

.

Regards,

Arka

PS - After changing the Differential Ratio.

Thanks for the info Mr. Behram/Arka.
One more quick question

.
The FC mini-trucks those days had Perkins P-4 or Cooper engines which when compared to the MD-2350 in the regular CJ-500s had tremendous torque. Any idea about the actual torque of the Perkins/Cooper engines?? Just to compare torque with that of the Thar CRDe engine!
Regards,
Bopanna

DHABHAR.BEHRAM · 26th February 2011, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi DB Sir,

53" FFRA + 4.3:1 Diff-Ratio ????I pray please tell me which vehicle.

You can share the Axle/Diff related information on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...le-debate.html

Regards,

Arka

Dear Arka - there is a certain brown Bolero with TeamBHP / AKC stickers on the tail gate which very regularly does the Nasik - Mumbai - Nasik stretch, the differentiating performance as compared to other vehicles brings a quiet smile on somebody's face.

. It belongs to yours truly.

.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Tejas@perioimpl · 26th February 2011, 12:48

^ Yes, i can vouch for that bolero. She kept up most of the the time with the ML on the bombay - pune expressway with cyrus at the wheel. She was fast.

headers · 26th February 2011, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

^ Yes, i can vouch for that bolero. She kept up most of the the time with the ML on the bombay - pune expressway with cyrus at the wheel. She was fast.

What is ML?

Can we get some specs of "that" bolero please?

Tejas@perioimpl · 26th February 2011, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by headers

What is ML?

Can we get some specs of "that" bolero please?

ML: Mercedes ML class.

I guess it has the same ratio as the thar. BD or cyrus can elaborate further on the specs.

25th February 2011, 15:20	#1036
slalom BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: " Deep " in God's Own Country !! Posts: 199 Thanked: 138 Times	re: Review: 1st-gen Mahindra Thar (2011 - 2019) @ BD , I knew it was not that easy and you would definitely advise against it , but each time I look at the Thar from the rear ,the rear track kind of disturbed me ,I was just wondering if there was a safe and easy way to even the rear track and now the case is rested and I will never ever think about a spacer again in my whole life
	() Thanks

25th February 2011, 18:10	#1042
DHABHAR.BEHRAM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MUMBAI Posts: 3,060 Thanked: 5,354 Times	re: Review: 1st-gen Mahindra Thar (2011 - 2019) Dear Arka - thanks for your comment which I knew was coming. "After changing the differential ratio", only one such axle exists and I think you know which vehicle it is fitted to. . I think you also know how that vehicle zooms past everything else. There are many design parameters which are classified like the involute profile, the tooth shear strength, the tribology details etc. People have presented papers in international conferences like SAE International / FISITA and we have argued for hours on end just on one parameter out of these. I wish I could start a thread on all this but I shall not do so for obvious reasons. Just because the ratio is same, it does not mean that it is technically correct. . Dear all - now you decide, would you as loving owners of brand new Thar CRDe vehicles want to play around with it after knowing all this? Did any other OEM even tell you this much? Think about it. It's a jungle out there. I only request you to please be careful. Best regards, Behram Dhabhar
	() Thanks

25th February 2011, 19:08	#1044
navpreet318 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dehradun Posts: 2,264 Thanked: 2,983 Times	re: Review: 1st-gen Mahindra Thar (2011 - 2019) BD sir Since the topic of offsets etc is up i'd like to ask you if the Alloys on the Thar Adventure are, according to you, correct? I would eventually be interested in installing alloys.and it would be good to know which ones are good. I believe they have a lesser offset than +55 because of the way the tires are jutting out of the vehicle.
	() Thanks

26th February 2011, 12:48	#1048
Tejas@perioimpl Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 4,423 Thanked: 9,582 Times View My Garage	re: Review: 1st-gen Mahindra Thar (2011 - 2019) ^ Yes, i can vouch for that bolero. She kept up most of the the time with the ML on the bombay - pune expressway with cyrus at the wheel. She was fast.
	() Thanks