[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by shiva75

Called my BMW dealer and he suggested to first try at/near Mysore otherwise come back to Bangalore and get it fixed. I stopped at a tyre dealer on the way back to Bangalore, somewhere between Coorg and Mysore. They had all brands but no RFT's. I drove back to Bangalore on the Donut at speeds between 50-60 kmph. Took me much longer than usual to get home, however it was what I could think of best to get home.

Sorry I assumed the vehicle was running on normal tyres since it had a donut spare. Coincidently a friend of mine was in the same situation the previous week, tyre burst near Channarayapatna after hitting a pothole. This BMW had no spare as it had runflats, he had to flatbed it to Bangalore as a replacement was not available nearby.

[itwasntme]

I had asked earlier on another thread but are there steel wheels available in such sizes, i.e. 17 X 7.5J & 18 X 8J?

Instead of a super expensive OEM 5th alloy (50K+), can we pick up a steel wheel? Of course, it will hugely eat up the boot space in the 3 at least.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

I had asked earlier on another thread but are there steel wheels available in such sizes, i.e. 17 X 7.5J & 18 X 8J?

Instead of a super expensive OEM 5th alloy (50K+), can we pick up a steel wheel? Of course, it will hugely eat up the boot space in the 3 at least.

I don't think steel wheels are available in those sizes, not to mention the additional requirements like PCD, offset, etc. - would not recommend also due to quality and weight.

Most pragmatic approach for Indian driving conditions:
Good quality tubeless tires
Portable tire inflator
Mushroom plug puncture repair kit (https://www.amazon.in/Grand-Pitstop-.../dp/B07G5FNN1P)
Spare saver tire

RFT concept is no good for our type of roads that have more potholes than nails.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by androdev

I don't think steel wheels are available in those sizes, not to mention the additional requirements like PCD, offset, etc. - would not recommend also due to quality and weight.

Most pragmatic approach for Indian driving conditions:
Good quality tubeless tires
Portable tire inflator
Mushroom plug puncture repair kit (https://www.amazon.in/Grand-Pitstop-.../dp/B07G5FNN1P)
Spare saver tire

Thanks, androdev for the steel wheels clarification. My responses in italics:

Good quality tubeless tires - Stuck with Bridgestone Turanza 225/50/17 RFTs for now at least - their resale value is pathetic and due to import issue, there is no hope of fresh Michelin PS4 for now
Portable tire inflator - Check
Mushroom plug puncture repair kit (https://www.amazon.in/Grand-Pitstop-.../dp/B07G5FNN1P) - do these work on RFTs too? Will invest in a kit if so.
Spare saver tire - Check

[androdev]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Thanks, androdev for the steel wheels clarification. My responses in italics:

Good quality tubeless tires - Stuck with Bridgestone Turanza 225/50/17 RFTs for now at least - their resale value is pathetic and due to import issue, there is no hope of fresh Michelin PS4 for now
Portable tire inflator - Check
Mushroom plug puncture repair kit (https://www.amazon.in/Grand-Pitstop-.../dp/B07G5FNN1P) - do these work on RFTs too? Will invest in a kit if so.
Spare saver tire - Check

I agree, no point spending good money to change perfectly working tires. RFTs can save the day under certain circumstances where it is not safe to get down to change/refill the tire, but they also don't handle potholes that well.

I am sure you know that only central tread area can be repaired for punctures caused by small nails/screws. RFTs can also be repaired for such punctures. Most tire shops use some strip to plug the hole. I had a bad experience with one such repair where the plug just came off while driving. These mushroom plugs work on a different principle where the plug will not come off. Worst case, it will allow a slow leak which is far better than sudden loss of pressure. I have done few DYI puncture repairs on my cars with this kit and I am happy with it.

Full size spare is great but not if it eats up so much boot space (and the cost). Pump + puncture kit + space saver is enough insurance. I fear far worse things when I go on a drive.

[apurbasg]

Mods: Apologies if am diverting this thread. Felt like this is an appropriate one to post in. In case it's not please shift to appropriate section. Thanks.

Hey Guys,

Am procrastinating a bit on the RFTs on my X5 (Nov'2018 model & run about 9k in 2yrs) for an upcoming 4000km road trip from Mumbai - Jaisalmer - Bikaner - Narkanda & back starting 20th Dec. So need some advice and help.

In spite of reading innumerable RTF blowout experiences on highways, I have been using RFTs for 5yrs (first the X3 for 3years & now the X5 for 2yrs) and have never faced any issue. But all my trips have been either to Goa or within Maharashtra. So I have always figured that between Mumbai / Pune / Goa BMW workshops I will be covered.
However in this trip since am headed to both Jaiselmer & Bikaner and the former being 550km+ from the Jaipur / Ahmedabad workshops, I wanted to carry spare tubeless tires (not alloys) just for emergency. The idea being if this blowout occurs somewhere close to Jaisalmer we are able to carry on with the trip till we reach a BMW workshop and we may have to drive upwards of 500-600km. (I have the space saver wheel but I don't want to do more than 200km on it.)

My tire profiles are: Front - 255/50/19 & Rear: 285/45/R19. The trouble is due to covid import issues & otherwise the rear 285/45/R19 doesnt seem to be available in Mumbai at all. I have checked for used ones as well but across 7-8 major tire shops, I havent been able to find it either.

Navnit Workshop's advice is to carry a spare front wheel including tire & alloy but am not inclined to spend 1L now on this and moreover they dont have the front RFT profile. They mentioned in an emergency one can use this front wheel at the rear but the rear wheel can be used in front since it's wider & may touch etc. The rear RFT tire is available though at 33k.

So I have a few questions regarding the same
1. One dealer has a used tubeless 275/ 45 / R19 - They think that it will will easily work and it wont screw the car up apart from the fact that one has to drive slower / carefully (not as slow as the space saver) & the odometer will be incorrect (which is acceptable). They also have a used & new tire matching the front profile. This is a biggish shop near my house but I don't know them. Any advice on this?

2. Another dealer has a fairly new tubeless 275/55 / R19: He feels that this can be used as an interim on either the front or back. Is that possible or advisable? This guy is known to my friend who runs a premium bike touring company so knows him well and that gang buys all tires from him so he's known to be a reliable guy.

The only observation was that for it to work the alloys need to be the same. He felt that alloys could be different ie 8/9J for front & 10J for rear. Which leads me to the next question.

3. How does one figure the size of the alloy without taking the wheel off? Incredulously, its not mentioned in any document which was shared with me during the purchase including the manual. I have called both Navneet and BMW helpline for this and its been 3 days and I haven't got a response?

4. My above plan of carrying only the tubeless tires will work if the alloys aren't heavily damaged during blowout. How can one distinguish between major damage (completely bent) and minor damage (minor marks) to the alloy?

5. Any heads up with good tire shops in Jaisalmer or Bikaner where I can call and check for availability of these profiles in advance? I have searched on the net and called a few of them but no luck yet.


Many thanks in advance.

Cheers!
Apurba

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by apurbasg

My tire profiles are: Front - 255/50/19 & Rear: 285/45/R19.

I suffered a complete alloy/tire failure somewhere near to Beawar on X5 few years ago and was running the same size if I am not mistaken on my 2016-X5-M trim. I downshifted to 18 inches and the car has been used extensively in Gujarat by my colleague since that time without any troubles.

I will suggest you find a complete set of 4 in 18-inches for such journeys. Try this guy- Karan - 99710 99239 he trades in large sizes and a helpful guy.

I should also have 2 sets of 19 inches with me somewhere, one was lost and the other is used a stepney by my colleague. Let me find out and update.

Another dealer has a fairly new tubeless 275/55 / R19: He feels that this can be used as an interim on either the front or back. Is that possible or advisable?

Just the tyre or complete set? Without alloy, you will be still struck-up and most shops in the places you have mentioned, won't able to handle a 19 inches with ease. Keep a set- absolutely must.

[apurbasg]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I suffered a complete alloy/tire failure somewhere near to Beawar on X5 few years ago and was running the same size if I am not mistaken on my 2016-X5-M trim. I downshifted to 18 inches and the car has been used extensively in Gujarat by my colleague since that time.

I will suggest you find a complete set of 4 in 18-inches for such journeys. Try this guy- Karan - 99710 99239 he trades in large sizes and a helpful guy.

I should also have 2 sets of 19 inches with me somewhere, one was lost and the other is used a stepney by my colleague. Let me find out and update.



Just the tyre or complete set? Without alloy, you will be still struck-up and most shops in the places you have mentioned, won't able to handle a 19 inches with ease. Keep a set- absolutely must.

Hey, thanks for all the suggestions.

Is Karan based out of Mumbai?

I haven't considered replacing all the rims to 18" but I did consider changing into 4 x tubeless tires. However when I spoke to my service engineer (of last 5yrs) who had suggested moving to tubeless in case of emergency, he mentioned that the warranty / BSI (i have it for another 3yrs) will get void. Since RFTs are unlikely to be available in Jaisalmer / Bikaner, he suggested getting tubeless and then using secure to claim a RFT replacement at the nearest / next BMW workshop provided its available.


BMW workshop just confirmed that the damn alloy sizes between the front & back are different - 9J x 19 for front & 10J x 19 for back. So the problem is that I will then have to procure 2 sets of tires & alloys and I feel it is a bit too much to spend as an emergency back up.
Used tires are okay since they are cheap & I can just give it back to the known dealer either for him to resell and recoup some of the money or park it in his godown.

Also, the BMW workshop guy said that if its not badly damaged and the new tire can be put on it then I should be able to use it in an emergency. Yes, if the alloy is completely damaged and cant be used at all, then I do get jammed.

Spoke to my friends known / trustworthy tire dealer, he seem to suggest the 275 / 55 / R19 will fit on the 10J, but then the BWM workshop said he doesnt think so. So bit of confusion there as well.
Any clues on that?

Cheers!
Apurba

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by apurbasg

Is Karan based out of Mumbai?

No Delhi, but he can ship across.

he mentioned that the warranty / BSI (i have it for another 3yrs) will get void.

Complete BS, none of my BMW's run on RFT's. The first thing I will do is to change the tyres and thanks to such BMW services guys, I get good value for my otherwise shit RFT's (even as brand new)

claim a RFT replacement at the nearest / next BMW workshop

Many of the cars are struck due to non-availability, do they themsleves carry these sizes?

the front & back are different - 9J x 19 for front & 10J x 19 for back.

I forgot to mention before, Yes, the sizes are different but in urgencies, you can use the smaller one on the bigger one.

workshop guy said that if its not badly damaged and the new tire can be put on it then I should be able to use it in an emergency

The practical problem is finding the right shop that can handle changing over to 19inches. It's not easy, from my own experiences. Had to Airlift the tyre to Ahmedabad and then send Tyre from Mundra to Ahmedabad by Car to get these changed. This was a few years ago and the size was 20 Inches. Things are better now in Gujarat but can't say the same about Jaisalmer or in Himachal.

he seem to suggest the 275 / 55 / R19 will fit on the 10J, but then the BWM workshop said he doesnt think so.

It will fit, you can crosscheck with Karan but I won't suggest you lugging just the tyre in your boot. Buy a complete set and also ensure you are carrying a suitable Jack and spanner to open and close.

If you are going only until Jaisalmer, you should be good. The roads are nice and you won't obviously take X5 to the dunes, if you plan, better not. If you are traveling to as far as Himachal, I won't recommend going without a full-size spare wheel. The small difference in the rear/ front profile is not an issue.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by apurbasg

Am procrastinating a bit on the RFTs on my X5 (Nov'2018 model & run about 9k in 2yrs) for an upcoming 4000km road trip from Mumbai - Jaisalmer - Bikaner - Narkanda & back starting 20th Dec. So need some advice and help.

You are thinking TOO MUCH! Will take away fun of drive.

I have driven to all the above places mentioned except Narkanda, HP in Dec 2018 in BMW X1 shod with 225 55 R17 RFT. Then to Mumbai-Bangalore-Yercaud-Kodaikanal-Rameshwaram-Pondicherry-Chennai-Mumbai without any issues. Driven over speed breakers, pot holes at speeds, no worries.

Reason people have blow out, 2 reasons
1. Wrong tyre pressure. Fill up air exactly mentioned on fuel cap. 32 PSI front & rear for X1. I fill normal air, no nitrogen.

2. Low side wall in sedans and M Sport trims. Having sidewall of 120 mm is more than abuse friendly.

Keep following with you.
1. Tyre pressure inflator. I use same
2. Puncture repair kit

X5 has SUV tyres Bridgestone Alenza compared to X1 touring tyres Bridgestone Turanza T001I. You have nothing to worry.

Previously had Pirelli Cinturato P7 RFT which were very soft; replaced under secure.

RFT can be repaired for puncture like normal tubeless tyre.

Lastly changing tyres to tubeless can void warranty BSI on parts affected/linked to tyres like, suspension. Unless BMW overlooks tyres while processing claims.

I find RFT a good choice for touring people, in an event of puncture you need not stop at unknown location and can drive further to nearest safe location on highway or within city.

[apurbasg]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No Delhi, but he can ship across.

Complete BS, none of my BMW's run on RFT's. The first thing I will do is to change the tyres and thanks to such BMW services guys, I get good value for my otherwise shit RFT's (even as brand new)


Many of the cars are struck due to non-availability, do they themsleves carry these sizes?

I forgot to mention before, Yes, the sizes are different but in urgencies, you can use the smaller one on the bigger one.


The practical problem is finding the right shop that can handle changing over to 19inches. It's not easy, from my own experiences. Had to Airlift the tyre to Ahmedabad and then send Tyre from Mundra to Ahmedabad by Car to get these changed. This was a few years ago and the size was 20 Inches. Things are better now in Gujarat but can't say the same about Jaisalmer or in Himachal.


It will fit, you can crosscheck with Karan but I won't suggest you lugging just the tyre in your boot. Buy a complete set and also ensure you are carrying a suitable Jack and spanner to open and close.

If you are going only until Jaisalmer, you should be good. The roads are nice and you won't obviously take X5 to the dunes, if you plan, better not. If you are traveling to as far as Himachal, I won't recommend going without a full-size spare wheel. The small difference in the rear/ front profile is not an issue.

Thanks, will speak to Karan but since I'm traveling from 20th, I think the possibility of sorting everything out prior to that looks difficult. I hope to find some solution locally.
The BSI / warranty being void with tubeless tires is something they mentioned on the phone, maybe I will have to ask them to clarify on email and see if it is actually so.
You seemed to have gone through quite bit of tough experience on RFTs. As mentioned in my initial mail this is my 5th year on RFTs and if I was doing Mumbai - Ahmedabad - Jaipur - Delhi / Chandigarh - Narkanda (which will be my return route) then I wouldnt have really gotten into it so much, its only the addition of Jaisalmer / Bikaner which has made me think.
The cost of a new alloy is about 85k & a new RFT is 33k, so I personally don't think its worth it at least for now. The people I have asked for the tires are looking for an used alloy with matching PCD etc. If I do get one which is economical or with a good buy back option then I will take it. Other wise one has to hope that there isnt too substantial damage to the alloy and one gets a tire guy locally who is able to take off the RFT & replace it with the tubeless.
Actually your first suggestion of changing all 4 tires into normal tubeless may turn out to be cheaper. If I can get clarity on email in terms of the warranty maybe I will explore that.

Everytime you have faced problems with RFTs what speeds did it occur? From what I gathered from tire dealers & the service engineer the chances of the alloy getting damaged is much lesser, specially if it hits a pothole at upwards of 150-160kmph. If the tire damage is cause of a stone chip, its apparently highly unlikely for the alloy to get damaged.

Nope, no stunts of going into sand dunes etc, I have had my fill of the Jaisalmer sand dunes 15yrs back. My friend is very keen on going to Jaisalmer and hence the addition.

In HP, I'm within 220km of Chandigarh so am expecting the BMW workshop there to come to rescue.

Cheers!
Apurba

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

BMW X1 shod with 225 55 R17 RFT.

Reason people have blow out, 2 reasons

225 55 R17 is not the same like 285 45 R19. I don't think, Nitrogen or regular is going to make any difference. Staggered setup as mentioned by apurbasg is low profile and would be in M trim only.

changing tyres to tubeless can void warranty BSI on parts affected/linked to tyres like, suspension. Unless BMW overlooks tyres while processing claims

Big misconception, have you seen anyone being denied the claim?

I find RFT a good choice for touring people, in an event of puncture you need not stop at unknown location and can drive further to nearest safe location on highway or within city.

Have you actually driven on with a puncture on a RFT? First of all most RFT's will have sidewall tears. In the case of regular punctures, one should fill it back with air or get the puncture done else the tyre will get damaged like other tyres, a little longer than regular, but definitely not 80 kms or so what they claim.

Originally Posted by apurbasg

its only the addition of Jaisalmer / Bikaner which has made me think.

Roads to Jaisalmer from Gujarat and onwards to Delhi are fine. That should not be a worry if you can risk Mumbai- Chandigarh. Frankly, I will never do it on any car, let alone the X5 with 19inch wheels.

The cost of a new alloy is about 85k & a new RFT is 33k, so I personally don't think its worth it at least for now.

These can be had at competitive prices in the market. A lot of people upgrade/ downgrade. Like the 18 inch set that I bought, must have cost me less than 2 lac with tyres at that time, all original BMW wheels.

Everytime you have faced problems with RFTs what speeds did it occur?

Varied on different cars, the last one happened on the 740, it had 20 inch and the speed must have been around 100 but the pothole was deep. The one on the X5 where the alloy got crushed by a piece of large rock lying on the road, it was around 1 Am and I missed catching up early. Must have been around 120.

From what I gathered from tire dealers & the service engineer the chances of the alloy getting damaged is much lesser,

Correct, Only one alloy as against Ten tyres for me. But the problem is how will you get the tyre changed on the alloy. Not everyone has the infrastructure and if you are travelling so far, there will be night travel too.

In HP, I'm within 220km of Chandigarh so am expecting the BMW workshop there to come to rescue.

It will be RSA wherever you are, they will pick your car and drop to the nearest service station but don't expect the dealership to send you a tyre for replacement.

Try to find an 18-inch alloy/ wheel set over a spare 19-inch tyre. In case of urgency, you can still cover a lot of distance with one 18inches.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

225 55 R17 is not the same like 285 45 R19. I don't think, Nitrogen or regular is going to make any difference. Staggered setup as mentioned by apurbasg is low profile and would be in M trim only.

Tyre profile mentioned are
Front: 255/50/19 Sidewall height: 127.5 mm
Rear: 285/45/R19 Sidewall height: 128.5 mm

X1 225 55 R17 Sidewall height: 123.75 mm

So X5 tyres can take more or same abuse as X1 tyres.

My point for Nitrogen was; using normal air is okay and makes no difference. So if you are at Tier-3/4 city, fill up normal air and drive.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Big misconception, have you seen anyone being denied the claim?

Well I had written email to BMW India (Contact.india@bmw.in) to seek clarification whether changing tyres to normal tubeless will lead to any warranty claims issues while I was facing issue with Pirelli Cinturato P7 tyres.

This is what BMW India replied

Further, we wish to inform you that BMW India recommends that our vehicles be maintained as per the norms and guidelines laid down by BMW India, any deviation from the same may result in consequential damages to other related components and will also impact the warranty guidelines of your BMW as well.

So technically it means, use RFT only till your warranty expires.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Have you actually driven on with a puncture on a RFT?

3 times with ZERO tyre pressure.

1st Instance:
Driving at 100 kmph, due to metal object piercing the rear right tyre leading to instant zero tyre pressure. I don't know what would have happened with non-RFT.

2nd Instance:
Doing a trail, front right tyre lost pressure and had to drive 600 meters before I could change over to Donut spare.

3rd Instance:
Front left got developed a cut on tread and lost tyre pressure. Drove for 2 km to nearest tyre repair shop in Bhavnagar GJ.

4th Instance:
Due to a slow puncture, by evening tyre lost air. Filled it up using 12v Tyre Pump and drove to tyre repair shop in Mumbai. Got it repaired like a normal tubeless tyre.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

First of all most RFT's will have sidewall tears.

Never faced it.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

In the case of regular punctures, one should fill it back with air or get the puncture done else the tyre will get damaged like other tyres, a little longer than regular, but definitely not 80 kms or so what they claim.

Agree but haven't got chance to test 80 Km claim.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

X1 225 55 R17 Sidewall height: 123.75 mm
So X5 tyres can take more or same abuse as X1 tyres.

You have ignored one important fact, the weight of the vehicle

17 or 18 inch are safe sizes but I will still not keep. In fact, the first thing I did on my Mini was to remove RFT's despite these were 17inches. Most of my knowns have done the same too.

This is what BMW India replied
So technically it means, use RFT only till your warranty expires.

Obviously, why will they write differently. Anyways, I have never had any issues relating to tyres/ suspension, so people can take a conscious call.

3 times with ZERO tyre pressure.

My question was how far have you driven with RFT's with zero pressure?

I don't know what would have happened with non-RFT.

Tubless don't lose the tyre pressure either like tubes, even without RFT's in case of a slow puncture, you will get a notification. In case of a larger cut, both lose equally faster. Theoretically, due to a stronger sidewall, you will have better control in RFT's in case of a large cut/ you lose air fast but practically, I have never experienced anything different.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

You have ignored one important fact, the weight of the vehicle

For that we will have to check the load rating. X1 tyres are rated at 97 which equals 730 Kg per tyre.

X5 would have higher load rating which would equal more durability.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

My question was how far have you driven with RFT's with zero pressure?

2 km

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Anyways, I have never had any issues relating to tyres/ suspension, so people can take a conscious call.

RFT have one problem though, they wear out much faster. So normal tubeless is better. Will take a call on it when TWI nears for Bridgestone.