Necessary upkeep should be reasonable for a middle class, or salary earner.

BHPian Overlander recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Ok, so let us get real. You are a TeamBHPian. Or at least someone who frequents these forums in anonymity while still wiping the grease off your palms in a towel. Your living room drawer have the latest electricity, PNG, telephone, school bills that need to be paid. You are enjoying a perfectly (and directionless) sedate weekend after a strong grind at the office, or the modest workshop you call home for 5 days a week. You are already looking deep and long into the horizon, where you would wish for jumping dolphins, and ochre sunset to be setting in. Instead, you are not sure of what Monday holds for you. And then while you stand perilously close to the thought-cliff, someone comes and just gives you a gentle nudge.

It could be a classmate, now showcasing their latest garage acquisition on Facebook/ Instagram (the holy grail of this generation's existence); or it could be that annoying neighbour you scoffed at for their disenchanted pompousness. It could be easily that match-box of a car sketch that your child proudly handed over to you, reminding you of the silhouette you used to sketch at their age. That's all it takes, you know!

You are laughing? This car has suicide doors man!

<Lest I digress, scene pans out and returns to the story> You forget about your middle class dispositions, and dive into a myriad of online portals/ resources at your disposal and while still being able to carefully (somewhat hesitantly but cautiously) keep moving the price range slider to an acceptable range. 40 lakhs? Sure, what are these mushroom-banks going to be come to work if not now. There is this hilarious Bengali-quotation shirt I have in our family which say "Jaa kamai, shob EMI"  (eloquently loosely translated to - "All Earnings, Wasted on Yearnings"!) Nope, you put it to 20 Lakhs.

So very recently, let us say a friend of mine got down this rabbit hole. I (sorry, I meant HE) scoured through the threads available on TeamBHP to find optimum utilisation of scarce resources a new definition - 101 ways to 'invest' 'small savings' into a car that puts a 'smile on your face'. Requirement? Satiate that long standing penchant to own a car (fossil based) that will plaster a grin that you do not want to post on social media, because it made you look stupid.

Now anyone who has been even slightly diligent with their searches (I am not referring to generative AI search capability - just a sliver of common sense capability) will know there are tons of such threads on this forum. Some basic educational threads, that will try its level best to knock some sense into that hard shell of yours.

• A fun-to-drive pre-owned car for an enthusiast
• Buying used cars in India: Advantages, doubts & expert advice (The 'not-so-obvious' advantages to buying pre-owned cars)
• The 'not-so-obvious' advantages to buying pre-owned cars
• ARTICLE: The Beauty of Lateral Upgrades (Getting MORE CAR for LESS $$$)
• ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

But then here you are, looking at yet another one. Then you realise, why is this required on the first place? The purpose of this thread will be to note down defined price bands, and listing down options on a basic rule of 'feasibility' within that price band and tingles your senses on nostalgia (Yes! I am looking at you, please do not say M340i 10 years down the line at 25 lakhs). How do you know either of us will live that long for the other person to say "I told you so!". Therefore, here are the ground rules:

• Price Bands: < 10 Lakhs; >10 lakhs but < 22 Lakhs (Nothing more, please refer the Thread name!)
• Car Criteria: Fun to drive enthusiast car, it has to be special and it has to be fast. Reliability is definitely a thing, so no references of 1985 LR et al. Therefore, by that design, you cannot recommend a car of extraordinary vintage, which will need 3x price to make it road-worthy.
• Maintenance: Necessary upkeep should be reasonable for a middle class, or salary earner. No point adding to Pics: Imports gathering dust in India <sad face>.
• Vintage: Now for the demography, it would be nice to be able to drive it for at least 2-4 years before 'khatara'-police (read NGT) come knocking on your door!Most Importantly: Be honest! If you will not buy the car, please do not recommend. This forum is something that non-enthusiast also refer, it would be our moral obligation to ensure recommendations here are things that we, as ardent car enthusiast, will also don't mind buying.

The question to answer is, which car that attains to your nostalgia and one you would like to consider, given a restriction on funds available? During the time on this thread, one would like to come to answer that very question.

Less than 10 Lakhs: I am positive that other members would chip in with their inputs as well, for the time being, I do not fancy any other cars in this group.

Note: Pictures courtesy Google images, and respective upload owners.

Mercedes E350 CDI (2011-2013):

• The daddy of Octavia with quad-headlights
• TeamBHP review suggested it had S-Class interiors. Need I say more?
• 3.0 V6 diesel, 231BHP, 540nm torque. If you feel 530D prices are obnoxious, this is the alternative.
• Make sure to read this thread before you start financially planning for it

Audi A6 3.0 TDI Quattro (2012-14):

• If you like your tail to point another direction and your steering to other, this is not the car for you. For everyone else, the venerable Quattro ensures your leach of a car stays firmly rooted to the road.
• When Renuka was still making the auto world sit up and listen, she had chosen this over the other 2 marquee offerings.
• Do not be surprised to see VWAG branded parts used in the car. There is a lot of cross-pollination in the brands.
• A4 3.0 would be a better handler, so would the 530D. This would be a sleeper car, and could potentially sleep for some time in the garage if something went wrong. An acquaintance waited well into 2-3 months trying to prim up his pre-owned car recently.

Fiat Punto Abarth (2015-16):

• Remember the time when India got excited at sub-10 0-100kmph timing? Yes. This is the one that made heads turn then.
• Powerdrift had a very emotional video on this car. This was at a time when they hadn't migrated to gaming-console-inspired graphics; and somehow made more sense.
• Built like a Tank! While the space inside is not near as a family person would want, the steering is more a place to hold on to than steer the car.
• Fiat's future in the country? Oh well! There have been rumour mills since acche-din was not even a thing.

VW Jetta TDI (2015-16):

• The Jetta in this vintage came with a multi-link suspension at the rear offering great ride quality along with very good handling. The Octavia came with a compound link crank axle.
• A very dear friend of mine bought 2 of them recently. Unfortunately sold both of these, for no reason given by the car. But any garage specialising in European cars can upkeep it perfectly.

E90 BMW 330i (2010-11):

• Paraphrasing from what Dark.Knight had written on this very forum while disclaiming his inability to write 'drab, boring language' "For the E90 I cannot exercise that restraint, Freude am Fahren is an understatement for the car, even ahead of the present F30".
• It will be extremely rare for you to find one that is in half decent state. But if you do come across one, you will do well to put a token money down at the least.
• The 330i after this generation lost 2 cylinders in the engine bay.

Honourable Mentions: Volvo came with >300BHP V8 at the turn of previous decade. Audi A6 came with stonker of an 3.0 TFSI till 2014. Octavia was similar to Jetta in many ways, and therefore can be considered as well. YouTube is flooded with modifications that give the current vRS a run for its money as well. Last, but not the least, VW Polo GT TSI, but it is not "special" enough.

Continue reading BHPian Overlander's thread for more insights and information.

Having these four cars have created a need for serious commitment for the cars. It means keeping track of tyres for every car and in case of W211 the tyre sensors as well.

BHPian cefiljoseph recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Hope everyone enjoyed the (Holi)days!

I am writing this thread to harness the collective wisdom of our community to decide on how to simplify the garage we have at home. We currently have four cars most of which are ageing. We put our best efforts into maintaining them but we aren't getting enough opportunities to use the cars which in some cases cause problems. Here are the cars we have and their respective concerns.

Current Cars with their contexts

2013 Fortuner AT 4x2 - Bought new in 2013 and immaculately maintaned at Toyota. It is the official family car at home in Kerala. Everyone at home loves it. Even in its 11th year, it costs peanuts to keep it running with just the dealership and not even once had to visit a shop other than for annual service. Still as good as new. The constraint her is - absolutely not selling it. This is decided and set in stone.

2007 Mercedes E-klasse W211 E280 CDI  - Arguably the most desirable car of the bunch. It was a lifelong dream to get a star as I have mentioned in the detailed thread. My dad got it when I was working in Mumbai and we user it there, largely maintained in Mercedes and lately in Wagenwerkz, Mumbai. Last year I joined a programme in Mohali for higher studies and consequently took her home to Kerala. Post homecoming, we have done even more of preventative work from M Star Motors in Kochi. However, since I and not home and my dad doesn't get the time to use the car, she has been throwing an error or two lately. This is one of the primary reasons we are looking to simplify the garage. Despite painstakingly maintaining the car to the best of our abilities, we are not able to use it and hence it's not a good use of our time and money. Still better than almost every car in the country. As much as I believe that this is perhaps the best Mercedes one can buy today in India, keeping it parked is not serving it right.

2017 Maruti Dzire AMT VXi - It's the car my mother drives and she doesn't drive any other car despite me telling her to and even making her drive the car. Interestingly, we booked the car right on the day it was launched in Kerala without even test driving it and it was the first Dzire of the current gen to be delivered in our district if not the state. This is the only car I don't like at home. Credit where its due, it is reliable, comfortable and economical basically everything an average person looks for in a car. However, in my eyes it is a boring car and I have been asking my mother to sell it since I can remember. Being her first car, she likes it so much which I understand. My only concern is the AMT module going kaput as it is nearing 7 years.

2005 E120 Toyota Corolla 1.8  - My favourite car owing to the fact that it is my first car. Still remember how I moved into this empty apartment in Mumbai and was living out of a suitcase, Coco was among the first things I got. There wasn't even a chair in my apartment so the only time I 'sat' in a chair was when I drove Coco back then. Having this shining corolla in the parking made life exponentially better and keeps me always happy. Requires quite a bit of upkeep. Currently stays in Mumbai. Whenever my dad is there in Mumbai which is usually like a week every month, he uses it. I have preventively fixed almost everything with it. Have done many road trips (Drop & Disappear | Four friends on a road-trip to the Sahyadris)and it is a favourite for me and anyone who has travelled in it. Definitely has a charm to it which I haven't seen with any other car. It's not a logical car to keep running considering the fuel economy paired with my driving plus the prices of spares which is even higher than Mercedes sometimes when taken relative to the cars current value. However, being maintained by me, I don't mind the costs at all considering the value I derive from Coco. Selling this would be utterly stupid in my opinion for two big reasons.First, I haven't seen such well made car ever, even the W124 which everyone raves about would be ranked a notch lower than the 9th gen corolla. It even has better interiors than the C-classes and E-classes of the time. Second, despite it being maintained well, it would fetch practically next to nothing if sold today. Would be the worst deal for me in the history of deals

Having these four cars have created a need for serious commitment for the cars. It means keeping track of tyres for every car and in case of W211 the tyre sensors as well. That is 16+4 tyres to watch out, 4 insurance renewals in a year. 4 fast tags to top-up. 8 pollution renewals in a year, other investments like detailing, parking, washing and all the miscellaneous expenses that comes with it.

Moreover, the average car is 13 years old and while I trust the cars, the risk of governments pulling a fast one on us cannot be avoided however unlikely it may be. Hence, we are considering selling one or two cars from the lot and maybe replacing it. We also have a 2013 RE Classic 500 and 2010 Honda Aviator to run errands which further brings down the usage of these cars for running the daily errands.

Options I can think of

• The most straightforward option - Sell W211. Although it's been a dream car, not driving it isn't doing justice to the car and causing niggles as it sits. This was not the case when I was there and used to drive her every other day if not every day.
• Exchange W211 for an older Merc which doesn't require to be used everyday but more on a weekly basis. Thinking of a W123/W124. We did test drive some of these when buying the W211 but my father didn't like these owing to the difficulty in driving them and the lack of speed/comfort relative to a modern car. My family also doesn't like these classics.
• Exchange W211 and Dzire for a Jimny - This is one of the rare instances where we like a car that is on sale currently. My family also likes it. The salesman are trying every trick in the book to sell it with discounts and whatnot. It's a great fit. It is definitely not as powerful as the W211 yet unlocks a new dimension for us and everyone loves the car in family.
• Do nothing - suck it up. Keep the show running. Wait until I finish my programme and be back in the workforce/start a business which will almost certainly happen in the coming year. I can take care of W211 along with Coco. It will take a big hit on my finances but I practically go to work for my cars to have a good life (hehe) so I don't mind. The rational part of me however knows that it's a stupid decision.

P.S. - replacing these with with any other new car is not an option. I don't see any value in new cars without spending like I don't know a crore or something which is insane. Not to mention the fact that cars except the Dzire are icons in their own rights and can't really be replaced with their modern counterparts without taking a hit in quality or financially or mostly both. Moreover, in the last few years, I have also grown to realise that time is the most important resource we have and what we must be optimising things for. Even tho we can afford the maintenance, we are finding it increasingly hard to get the time to take care of all the cars. Furthermore, having fewer cars mean the cars we have receive better attention and thus is return stays for even longer. After all peace of mind is the biggest luxury

These are the cars with their respective contexts and the options I have thought about. Would love to hear your thoughts

Here's what BHPian OpenRoads had to say on the matter:

Congratulations on owning such nice cars. It seems you have loved and cared for these cars with all your heart. But in my view your post can be summarized to 'Problem of plenty'. You have the means and resources but do not have the need.

So here's my thought.

1. Upgrade your mother's car with something she would be able to relate with the Swift dezire however it shouldn't be big and cumbersome. Automatic for sure but compact and easy to drive with latest bells and whistle (Honda city CVT?).

2. The rest of the three seems to be doing well. So take your pick and sell the rest. Hoping the Fortuner will survive.

Here's what BHPian padmrajravi had to say on the matter:

I would sell the Corolla and Dzire to get a Jimny AT. You mom will be happy with JImny AT for her local commutes. It is as narrow as the Dzire with a better driver view and better AT. The Corolla is special, but you already have another Toyota that will survive the apocalypse. Does not make sense to keep the Corolla. This would leave you with the Fortuner for long drives, Jimny as mom's city car and the Mercedes as a fun project car.

Here's what BHPian IshaanIan had to say on the matter:

Can the DZire and Corolla be replaced with an automatic S-Cross? Not much of a deal to be had in the used market since cars are only 3 years old but the thing is it offers all the space, ease of driving and visibility as well as reliability that one can wish for. Yet to see such a no nonsense vfm product get launched since, and I regret not buying one new a couple of years ago when they were about to discontinue it and the salesman offered me a 1.5 lac discount just on my first visit to the showroom

Here's what BHPian Geo_Ipe had to say on the matter:

With as heavy a heart as yours, I'd recommend you axe the Merc. She's old and needs caring, which you're unable to do right now. Plus she's not the kind of car your mom wants to drive around & your dad doesn't have time on his side. Times with her were great while it lasted, but its time to let go.

Sell the 211 now and pick up a 123/124 once you're done with your studies - not immediately.

This makes the most sense. I'd never recommend the Jimny as anyone's primary ride - the Ertiga engine + 4AT combo is just too mediocre. However, in your case the Jimny will be just perfect. Size is manageable, performance isn't really a key criterion, you're already familiar with Maruti in your area and you can choose to enjoy the 4*4 shall the need/itch arise sometime later!

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Even though this old Mercedes W210 has a non-complicated NA diesel engine, I replaced all these parts just as a precautionary measure.

BHPian Vmax1200 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Last week, my day started with a frustrating twist – my car refused to start! Well, after ruling out the usual suspects, I did some quick research online and found that a malfunctioning fuel shut-off valve can prevent the fuel from reaching the engine. Luckily the “Merc Motors” in Cochin had it in stock and I got it replaced.

Even though OM605 is a non-complicated NA diesel, the parts which may prevent the engine from starting are the fuel shut-off valve, crankshaft position sensor, air in the system due to worn O rings and Diesel plunger spring. So, as a precautionary measure, I replaced it altogether with the fuel shut off valve. The V belt had a noise in the idle RPM. So, replaced the damper and spring. Now, the engine runs very smoothly at idle. Planning to fix new diesel injection nozzles too.

Fuel shut off valve

Tensioner

Crankshaft position sensor

Nozzles

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

The team at M Star meticulously took the time to remove everything and fix the actuator motors and more importantly fix it correctly.

BHPian cefiljoseph recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

In December, 2023 - 211 was due for its 130k service as indicated by the service meter. I reached home for winter break and gave 211 to M Star for service. They promptly picked the car and took for service.

Apart from the regular oil and filter service there were also some other problems to be fixed.

Acceleration issues were noticed which was attributed to a disconnected intercooler pipe.

AC system fogged the front windshield when driving during morning, evening and rains. Basically rending the car unusable for most part of the day :

M star took it for service on 30th December, 2023 and gave it back on 2nd January, 2024 with these issues corrected.

They promptly updated and asked for approval in each step, sent photos through WhatsApp and delivered the car with a good wash. The service offered is as good as if not better than what dealers offer if not better.

Here's how it looks when the dashboard is removed to fix the actuator motors. Being an old car, this is a particularly hard job because it involves a lot of child parts to be removed and only an experienced team can ensure this happens without breaking stuff. The team at M Star meticulously took the time to remove everything and fix the actuator motors and more importantly fix it correctly. Was happy with this as there were no rattles or squeaks after this.

All this costed 30k after discounts.

All issues were fixed until the new ones came soon

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

I think the effect is not that impressive due to slow 7 speed gearbox as well. Quantum offers TCU remap as well for faster shift times. I may go for it in coming days.

BHPian Mission_PGPX recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Stage 1 Remapped my W212 E200 :

My 2014 facelift W212 with just 22,090 kms on ODO is now remapped. I chose quantum tuning for the map. Mr. Kunjan Patel, authorized and training guy from quantum operates from Ahmedabad only. So he offered to come home. So there are 3 ways to remap: OBD tuning, Bench Tuning and BOOT tuning. They don’t open the ECU for bench tuning. He chose Bench tuning, where ECU needs to be removed from car for a complete access to required files. Quantum Red map was written on ECU and car was remapped in approx. 1 hr.

First impressions:

1. The idle became further refined, it’s hard to tell if engine is on.
2. The low-end pull became more affirm, having no lag. However, its just 400 Nm torque so the effect is not as good as a diesel tune.
3. The major difference I felt today was on top end, during my drive on freshly opened Vadodara - Bharuch stretch of Expressway. Earlier the pull in D7 from 100 kmph was very lethargic, so had to downshift in D6 and now it pulls cleanly in D7, thanks to that additional torque. The same can be visualized in their dyno map as well.
4. When driven with light foot, the remap is hard to notice, unlike all VAG cars. As you can see from the graph, the gains are not too high below 2000 rpm, so if you stay above 2000 rpm then it feels much faster.
5. I think the effect is not that impressive due to slow 7 speed gearbox as well. Quantum offers TCU remap as well for faster shift times. I may go for it in coming days.
6. The service B is due in 30 days and I decided to remap before that. I think after replacing the air filter the gains could be bit more visible.

W212 Bosch ECU

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Audi has no diesels and the Q5 is outdated. Q7 Technology is Rs.1.2cr and is out of our budget.

BHPian VRJ recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

My dad and I are in this conundrum, and we are very confused on which car to go with.

Car that we’re replacing is our 2018 Fortuner 4x2 MT. This will be our first purchase from the luxury segment and this is also my first thread. Budget is around 80-90L. Will keep the car for 6-7 years.

What we are looking for in order of priority:

1. Comfortable suspension.
2. Rear seat comfort. We're a tall family.
3. Less body roll over bad roads, speed breakers and highways.
4. Reliability.
5. Comfortable and wide seats (Toyota has spoilt us).
6. Preferably a SUV for easy ingress and to tackle our rural roads.
7. Diesel. Used to diesels low end torque and efficiency from 15 years.
8. Absolutely no pre-owned.

Point 1 and 3 are the major cons of the Fortuner. The body roll in the middle row on bad roads is very uncomfortable. Also, one has to step in to the Fortuner and not slide in like the Innova. Dad is finding it hard to get into the car lately.

Dad is 59 and this will be his retirement car. Will be primarily used by him (chauffeured) and me as well. City and highway usage ratio is around 65:35.

Preference is towards SUV due to two reasons. One being easy ingress (dad has back issues) and second being my dad is a fan of road presence, however, to our surprise none of the Germans (GLC & X3) that fit our budget have good backseats. Poor legroom and under thigh support and horrible recline angle. Not comfortable during long drives.

Current Garage:

• 2009 Innova with 2,80,000 kms on the ODO.
• 2018 Fortuner diesel 4x2 MT with 91,000 kms on the ODO.
• 2023 Innova Hycross with 10,800 kms on the ODO.

I don’t think we ever had to visit the service centre for any repair in the last 14 years. Only scheduled general service. Hard to compare Japanese reliability with the Germans, but I’ll be taking the maximum warranty cover.

Preference of brands:

• Mercedes Benz: I believe Mercedes entered the Indian market first and it has been my dad’s dream to own one since his bachelor days. The star logo is very aspirational to his generation. So, for him it’s a Benz or no car. However, reliability is an issue with Benz, isn’t it? Consumer report puts BMW much higher than Benz. Also there’s a thread on the forum about Benz maintenance and no such thread for BMW. I’ve read a few BMW ownership threads. GTO 530d, itwasntme 330i, Dr. AD 320d and Graaja 330i GT. Thank you for sharing. It's of great help to prospective buyers. Their ownership experience have been overall positive.
• BMW: Mine and my sister’s favourite brand. My father in law owns a 2022 520D. I drive it at times, and I recently drove from Vizag to Hyderabad and back. Phenomenal car in every aspect. I feel the quality of materials used in the interior and the fit and finish is higher than Benz. Overall, feels solid.
• Audi has no diesels and the Q5 is outdated. Q7 Technology is 1.2cr and is out of our budget. Volvo shut shop in Vizag a year back. Range rover, we don’t have a showroom or service centre in Vizag. They’re always ranked in the bottom 5 in a lot of reliability tests. Please don’t recommend a Kodiaq. Lovely car that is VFM, but we’re looking at the luxury segment.

List of cars test driven:

I’d like to mention one thing I’ve noticed during my test drives with Benz. The rattling and creaking sounds are downright embarrassing and surprising. The E class is only 6000 kms run and GLC even lesser. The doors and the entire cabin felt like an old rattling ship. When driven over bad roads and those long speed breakers, there’s this 3D surround sound of rattling and creaking. As if it’s being played by the Burmester sound system, lol. After the end of my first test drive, I informed the salesperson that I want this sorted before the second TD. Spending close to a crore and having a rattling interior is annoying and embarrassing in front of friends and family. Gave him the benefit of doubt as TD cars are abused generally. The issue continued even during our second TD and the salesperson said every new Benz will rattle. There is no permanent solution to this. The rubber compound used by Benz is very heavy and it rattles because of our hot weather. Even the Maybach rattles as per him. Very surprised. My old Innova and Fortuner don’t rattle at all. Maybe Mercedes needs to learn a thing or two about build quality.

Mercedes Benz GLC 220D: 91L onroad. (Around 4L discount is offered in Feb):

Pros: Lovely interior. Fabulous stock audio from Burmester (better than harmon kardon in BMW 520d). Good suspension (neither too soft nor too stiff). Has the new 220D diesel with mild hybrid. 197 bhp and 440NM. (E220D has 400NM). Good boot space and alloys.

Cons: None in the family liked the backseat. It’s too upright and cushioning is stiff. The legroom is poor and foot/toe room is non-existent. Cannot stretch your feet under the front seats, which is a big miss. A big no from mom. Headroom was alright though. When driving at a 100, the suspension on the E class felt comfier and it didn’t feel like we were driving 100 kmph, whereas I could feel the speed in the GLC. The front seats are a bit aggressive. The bolstering gets in the way. I’m 6’2.

E 220D: Priced at 94L on road. After discounts: 83.5L.

Pros: Comes with AMG-line trim. So, the car looks much better on the outside. Classy and sporty. Satisfies dad and me. The front bumpers and alloys are great. Good stock audio (Burmester, it has two speakers less than the new GLC, 13 vs 15). Never the less, it still sounds great. Absolutely fabulous rear seats. The leg room is great, and you can stretch your feet beneath the front seats. The 36 degree recline is icing on the cake. Suspension is soft and soaks in the bumps. Coming from a Fortuner, I can feel a night and day difference. Parents are mighty impressed with the backseat experience. Good discounts.

Cons: Ingress is a bit hard, when compared to the GLC. But, better than my Father in law’s 520D and brother in law’s A4. Beige coloured steering and flooring. C’mon Mercedes. India is a dusty and a humid country. This makes my life complicated. Look at the attached picture of TD vehicle. Facelift was launched in 2021. It’s an old car. New one is coming in 6 months. Steering is harder compared to GLC. Poor boot space due to spare wheel.

BMW 630i GT M-Sport:

Pro: Air suspension offers good ride. Good road presence due to the coupe styling.

Cons: E class looks classier. Rear seat of the E is better. Deletion of features while increase in prices pisses me off. No auto/stop. No digital key. No laser lights. No comfort seats. The M-Sport steering that’s offered in a majority of the cars in BMW just feels cheap to use. Th leather used and the buttons, just didn’t feel premium. My FIL’s 520D X line has a better steering with metal buttons and better fit. The seats are comfier as well. Something just felt off about the car compared to the 5’er. It felt of a lesser quality compared to the 5. Maybe it’s me who feels this way, but the 6 didn’t vibe with me. All the features I mentioned above are present in the signature edition, but that is reserved only for the petrol engine. Recently, a BHP’ian took delivery of a 630i GT signature edition for 75L on-road. That’s a great deal. However, in Vizag, 620d is 86L and 630i signature is 90-91L. No further discounts. 83.5 for a E is a better car than the 6 at 85.

X3 20d:

Was most excited to drive the X3, but it turned out to be the worst of the bunch. Horrible back seat. Interior was a big let down. The centre console buttons, my god, I don’t have words. No offence to recent owners. GLC is way superior. Poor sound insulation from the engine. Immediately off the list.

GLE 300d: No test drive was available and was also out of our budget. I heard the new GLC is more feature packed than the GLE.

Decision:

I can't believe we are picking a sedan. The E class has won us over with it's rear seat experience. 83.5L is a good deal. 3 years extended warranty is 2.5 L.

Dilemma:

The 2023 generation E-class has been around since 2017-18. It was facelifted in 2021. It’s a 7-year-old platform. The new generation E-class is launching towards the end of the year. Expected on-road price is 1.05-1.10 cr. That’s a lot of money for an E-class. But, it’s a brand new generation. We’ll keep the car for 6-7 years and it’ll be fresh throughout its life. While, the current E-class is already old. At the same time, German cars age well. On the other hand, the 5 series LWB is launching this year as well. The new 2024 E-class looks better than the 5, has that fancy super screen and the S-class grille. However, the 5 gets that huge screen in the backseat (same as 7 series).

Do we get the current 2023 E-class for 83.5? or wait for the new E-class and 5 series. If i wait, i'll be spending 20L more for the new generation. Is the extra 20L worth the upgrade?

Thank you for taking your time out to read this thread and offering advice. Cheers!

Here's what BHPian AdiSinghV12 had to say on the matter:

IMO the new E class completely changes the interior game and is an all new model rather than a facelift and rightly to tick all your boxes. 83.5L is also a lot of money so might as well put a little more and get the latest toy. Not to mention the depreciation hit on resale will be massively different than the outgoing one

Here's what BHPian Shreyans_Jain had to say on the matter:

First of all, drop the GLC. The car doesn’t have the substance to go with the style, especially at these asking prices. Once the novelty wears off, it’s an average car underneath. Rattling and creaks are a reality of ownership of all new gen Mercs, C and below.

The current E is one heck of a machine, but I will be inclined to wait for the next generation. There are going to be a massive amount of changes, the interior will be totally new and a huge step forward. You will not want to spend 85L and then have buyer’s remorse a few months later. Especially because this purchase is for your father, not yourself. I suggest you wait a while and choose between the next gen cars - E and 5 series LWB.

Here's what BHPian lamborghini had to say on the matter:

Your best bet is honestly the Q7 - have to try and get it at a discount when Audi sales are taking place and swallow the fuel bills - underpowered it will not be, that is for sure.

None of the other options are exciting - the E Class with minimal discounts will be an old model which you're buying at full price & truth be told it isn't a great car. Low maintenance is a no go, it doesn't have the best ride and handling in it's segment (6GT wins) either.

Apart from the legroom, there was nothing exceptional about the quality of material used, the ride & handling, or the NVH - especially for it's price.

Here's what BHPian sandeepmohan had to say on the matter:

The nice thing about Mercedes is that you start to see a trickle of technology from their higher end models. The current E on sale has already received Adaptive Suspension (Not to be confused with Air suspension). A feature that was exclusive to the S Class once upon a time. With the new generation, you'll get access to the tech bits the S class had/has and that is a good thing. Might as well wait it out, considering you plan on holding onto the car for a while.

While you're at it, try and sweet talk them into selling you an S Class for the price of the upcoming new E . Maybe they have some New Old stock sitting in the yard or factory.

Here's what BHPian vivekmohan83 had to say on the matter:

I bought the E200 last month for about 80l (including the 3 year warranty) but that was because I paid upfront late December and knew the dealer.

I own an X5 which I drive and the E class was for my wife and kids to be chaffeured around.

I had the same dilemma of waiting for new model vs buying the 2023 one. However took the call on the back of few factors

1. I hold cars for long. Still have my 2011 Civic so the model upgrades by themselves don’t matter as much

2. Newer models tend to have niggles which get sorted out over the next 2-3 years. Not a fan of buying the newest model in an untested market

3. The upgrades for the 2024 E class largely seem related to interiors and that screen which are interesting new adds but I am not a fan of the screen, I find even the current one a massive distraction. As regards rear seat comfort, the current E is about as good as it gets and so no real upgrade

4. Both models look exactly the same. If anything you will end up paying more for the AMG kit in the new version which is now standard in the 2023 version

Ultimately I didn’t think the extra 25 lacs + whatever I will have to pay for AMG kit + paint choice etc were worth the incremental change.

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

This is not a rant, but I just want to mention that every year something unexpected happens. Battery, brakes, tyre bulges, suspension noises, roof-line loosening, minor electronic issues, AC problems.

BHPian voldemort recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

I'm just back from a 1000+ km road trip that was done over 4 days (about 270 km per day, with non-driving days in between). Went from Kochi to Kollur in Karnataka, and back. This is a 2016 W212 E250 CDI with a little over 64000 km on the odo. The car has always been serviced at the authorized service center.

The check-engine light (CEL) came on during day 1. This was the first time during our ownership period of over 7 years that the check engine light was coming on. To my own surprise I wasn't that worried about this light. The engine was running smooth, there wasn't any vibration or anything like that, so I figured it wasn't a misfiring or anything catastrophic and continued driving.

Pardon the dust and the general lack of clarity in the image.

Bridgeway Motors Calicut was about 100 km from the point where we noticed the light, hence we went there. It was a Sunday. According to their website they would be closed on Sundays, but just to try our luck we called them up and explained that we're in the middle of a long trip and asked if they could take a look. To my surprise, they responded that they can send someone over to the workshop to do a quick inspection!

While we were there and just before they took the car inside, the CEL went away.

They did a quick unofficial inspection (I think they plugged in their thing into the OBD port or something; even though the CEL had gone out, the information about the it would have been logged into the car's computer) and said something like (I'm paraphrasing), there's a fuel injector pressure variation, probably due to a pollutant, and that they think it could be due to a carbon particle from the outside.

I don't really know what that meant. Anyway, the personnel said that the full repair of this is a lengthy process and that it's okay to continue driving for now, but to keep an eye on the temperature guage and to stop driving if it touches the redline on it (marked at 120° C). It wasn't entirely clear to me if this bit about the temperature was just a general tip, or if this has something to do with the CEL.

We drove onto Kannur, 100 km north of Calicut, and stayed there for a couple of days. Special thanks to Bridgeway Motors Calicut for inspecting our car on a Sunday on such a short notice. It gave us the reassurance to proceed with our trip.

On Tuesday we drove to Kollur which is 270 km away from Kannur. No CEL, the car ran smooth, and the drive was uneventful.

On Thursday morning, we started our return from Kollur. The initial part of the trip (until we reached the NH) had some hilly but smooth roads, and so I switched onto Sports mode so that it'll hold onto gears. About 10 minutes into the trip, the CEL came on again, but the engine continued to run smooth. I also heard a very faint metallic sound from the engine on pressing the accelerator, but my co-passengers couldn't hear it. The surrounding areas were very quiet, with woods all around and no other traffic nearly, so it may have been the case that this sound was always there but I'm noticing it only now. (By the way, a similar (almost identical) faint sound on acceleration is present in my Honda City as well, for years now). I wasn't too worried about the sound.

Switching back to Economy mode did not make the CEL go away, so I reverted back to Sports mode.

On reaching the NH I switched back to Economy mode and drove in my usual sedate driving style. I noticed that the car had a tendency to hold onto gears. The car behaved as though it's still in Sports mode. For example, usually when cruising at 80 km/h on level grounds the gear would normally have been in 6th and the engine would be spinning at a little over 1200 rpm. But today, at 80 km/h the gear was at 4th, and the RPM was at 2700. It wouldn't shift up on its own even at 100 km/h. The engine was rather audible inside. The ride wasn't very smooth due to the peaky power output at higher RPMs causing jerks to the passengers on acceleration. Upshifting via paddle shifters did move the gear over to 5th (so it wasn't anything inherently wrong with the gearbox itself, but on the computer controlling it?). But it wouldn't shift up to 6th.

Was the car trying to burn off excess carbon or something somewhere by maintaining a higher RPM? This is a BS4 car which I bought in 2016 and doesn't have adblue, DPF etc as far as I know.

After 20 minutes of driving like this, I figured I would pull over to the side of the road, turn the car off, wait for a minute, and start it back again. And that worked! The gear shift problem was gone, and at 80 km/h the car was in 6th gear, lazily ticking over at around 1200 rpm. After lunch, we again observed that the car had the tendency to not shift up from 4th, so we re-did the aforementioned restart routine, after which the gear shifts became normal. The CEL continued to be illuminated until evening (270 km later), after which it was gone.

There was a subsequent day of driving as well (again, about 270 km), which was uneventful. No CEL. Normal gearshifts.

Here's the basic trip statistics after the entire run.

Also, during the entire trip the temperature never went above 100° C.

So, does the more knowledgeable members here have any thoughts on the CEL, gearshifts etc? I'm planning to take it to the authorized service center in the coming days.

Here's what BHPian wildsdi5530 had to say on the matter:

Not very knowledgeable but 2 things come to mind.

Fuel contamination causes both CEL to come on and also the transmission issues that you have. You will have to do a proper injected cleaning to get rid of it.

How old is your battery? Does Start-stop work normally? TCM issues come up with old batteries. But that doesn't explain the CEL.

Here's what BHPian itwasntme had to say on the matter:

Not a MB owner but this sounds like fuel contamination OR something getting triggered when the engine reaches some threshold (temperature I guess), i.e. not normally reached in city driving. Do you do long drives often?

Also suggest you invest in a OBD dongle coupled with an appropriate app like this.

This will allow you to read the error code on the spot and take an informed decision.

BHPian voldemort had the following update to share on the issue:

Posting a general update:

Car was sent to the authorized service center here. Don't want to name any names (though there's only 1 authorized service center operating in Kochi). My dad was the one who dealt with them, so the information here is based on what he said to me.

• They diagnosed that the injectors are starting to get clogged and needs cleaning.
• Unfortunately, their "cleaning liquid" is currently in Thiruvananthapuram (this group has a branch there), and will arrive only by tomorrow.
• If everything's good we'll get the car either by tomorrow evening or on Wednesday morning.
• If the cleaning does not solve the issue, then injector replacement has to be done. This is expensive. (This has me wondering whether they have correctly diagnosed the problem).
• And from what I understood all injectors need to be cleaned/replaced.
• Slightly annoyed by this as there's somewhere I need to be early morning on Wednesday. Majorly annoyed that this problem even occurred.

Some general thoughts:

• Can't the Mercedes-Benz authorized service center stock their cleaning liquid at all their branches instead of moving it back and forth?
• Is it contaminated fuel that causes injector problems? Or — I have low running — could it be caused by not driving it daily?
• What can I do differently to prevent (or delay) this problem from happening again?

This is not a rant, but I just want to mention that every year something unexpected happens. Battery, brakes, tyre bulges, suspension noises, roof-line loosening, minor electronic issues, AC problems (I still sweat when I think about that 7 hour drive I had to do on a hot day back in 2021, because the AC would only pump hot air; discussed here

Continuation of the above; today's updates regarding the injector problems on my E-Class:

• The liquid to clean the injectors arrived from Thiruvananthapuram earlier this afternoon, but they discovered it is past their expiration point. Hence they said it's not advisable to use it and suggested that we allow them to procure fresh liquid instead, to which we agreed to.
• New liquid will be flown in from Pune. Will arrive tomorrow afternoon.
• We can expect the car back on Thursday.

I have an airport run tomorrow morning; glad my uber-reliable (touch wood) City has a reasonably big boot. Every garage with a German car should have a Japanese (or Korean) stablemate, for the inevitable downtime!

When they arranged for the liquid to be transported from Thiruvananthapuram, they could've phoned somebody there to find out if it has expired (shouldn't an inventory computer just tell them something's expired?!), and could have arranged the transportation of the new liquid from Pune yesterday itself. Now they have wasted everyone's time and transported that liquid from Thiruvananthapuram for no reason. Missed opportunity; not impressed with Coastal Star Kochi, the authorized service centre here. Not happy that my car is spending 3 nights at their workshop due to avoidable inefficiencies.

We received the car back on Saturday. Just as well, because I had a long drive planned on Sunday.

Speaking of which, on Sunday we traveled about 370 km through Kerala highways. The car felt smooth. I mean, it always was smooth, but I think — this could be my imagination — the engine may have become slightly smoother still.

Something curious which I experienced during my drive was that at speeds of around 40 km/h I heard a faint sound of what I can only describe as the sound you get when a bottle is emptied and bubble enters the bottle. The sound was from the rear and went away as speeds climbed, but would return again on lower speeds. It was heard only early in the morning when the surroundings were relatively quiet. Later in the day I did not notice it, but that could be because the surroundings were noisier. Will see if the issue persists, and will mention this during the next routine service.

Here's a screenshot of the invoice. The big chunk of cost was the fuel filter.

Having said that, I appreciate them being transparent about the liquid expiration instead of sneakily using it without us knowing

Though I'm aware the same job at an independent garage would have costed less money, I'm overall satisfied with the job done by Coastal Star Kochi. However I feel they could have done the procurement of the injector cleaner quicker. The car was at the workshop for 5 days, from Monday noon to Saturday noon.

Also I happened to pop open the hood on Saturday evening with the intention of filling up the windshield washer fluid, as a preparation for my trip the next day. I was pleasantly surprised to see a remarkably clean engine bay devoid of dust. And the windshield washer reservoir was full! It was nowhere near full before I gave the car for repairs. Special congrats to Coastal Star for this attention to detail.

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

I was earlier keen on getting a 2.4 Accord or a Pajero Sport but am tempted by the idea of driving an F10 BMW

BHPian Denali recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Dear members,

I am being offered a single owner 2011 525d (I'm assuming 6 cyl) done 35k for 10 lacs. The vehicle was last serviced in 2021 by an independent garage in GGN and the service prior to that was done by the authorized BMW service centre in Chd. I am 18, and this purchase would be my first car. I was earlier keen on getting a 2.4 Accord or a Pajero Sport but am tempted by the idea of driving an f10.

I have a few queries:

Does the 2010/2011 525d come equipped with air suspension? If yes, can the setup turn out to be problematic, given the vehicle is 13 years old?

I plan to retain and drive the vehicle for atleast the next 5 years. I have heard a lot about the Accord's reliability and have a friend who has a 4L run Pajero Sport, so I know about the PS' reliability first hand.
Can I expect a niggle free ownership from the 525d for the next 5 years/60k kms?

Parallely, I was also being offered a 12k done 2011 E250 CDI Elegance for the same price, but the owner has postponed the sale. The car is virtually brand new. It has complete Merc service history.

Will the Merc be a better machine in terms of reliability/niggle free ownership in the long run?

Here's what GTO had to say on the matter:

It's too fast, too old, too complex and too expensive (to maintain) as an 18-year old's 1st car, Denali. Go get yourself a Polo / Rapid TSI for fun on a budget if you really want German driving pleasure. You'll get like new Vento / Rapid TSIs with lots of money left over for mods & maintenance.

Here's what BHPian KK_HakunaMatata had to say on the matter:

I can't answer any of the questions on the car per se, there are better people for that. Knowing the prices of NCR first hand, the 2011 car is already exceeded 10yrs and banned to run in NCR. Though you will be able to get an NOC now to other states, the price shouldn't exceed 5lac.

Here's what BHPian Immortalz had to say on the matter:

BMW switched the 525d to a 4 pot in 2011. Get the VIN and decode it to see whether the engine is N57 or N47. N57 is the six pot. Also, That N57 engine, also shared in a higher state of tune in the 2010-2011 530ds, is problematic. There is no critical flaws as such, but it is a maintenance nightmare. The N47 engine is the one with timing chain issues. It's an all round no no, the early F10 diesels. It is better to avoid those. You can recognize the updated engine by doing a VIN decode and spotting the N57N engine.

The 5er never came with air suspension here in India. Only the GTs did.

Unless all of the maintenance has already been done, expect a ton of work. You can spend a few lakhs and make it tip top, but you can find 2012+ cars in the 12L range easily, which offer a significantly updated motor.

Yes. The W212 is a return to classic Merc reliability. You'll probably have to replace a lot of the bushings and such soon due to age. But it should be a workhorse.

Here's what BHPian ike had to say on the matter:

This is a 13 year old car, and that can never be "virtually brand new". A car is meant to run and this clearly has not run at all. Even if the engine has run less, the chassis, the interiors, suspension etc are all very old. Get the car if that is what you really want but don't kid yourself into buying a 13yr old car believing it is "brand new" since the clock shows only 13k KMS.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

I think the engine oil hasn't been replaced in ages so I got fresh Mobil 1 engine oil for my Mercedes W210.

BHPian Vmax1200 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Work update:

Suspension and power steering overhaul completed. One front shock was not even moving. Wondering how the car managed provide to awesome ride quality with these shocks. Power steering overhaul costed INR 7,500.

Both engine and gear mounts were in pathetic condition. Replaced with new Lemforder mounts.

Now planning to paint both bumpers and replace headlights and tail lamps.

Fresh Mobil 1 engine oil. I think old oil was there for ages.

New Lemforder steering bushes

Old steering bushes

Old Engine and gearbox mounts

Old lower arm end

Old suspension parts

Wheel Alignment

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

I know that the Mercedes W210 is labelled as the worst E-Class in history, but for me, this is an awesome deal given the ride quality, fuel efficiency & bulletproof engine.

BHPian Vmax1200 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Hey, fellow car enthusiasts!

I am sharing my recent used car buying experience with all of you.

After months of scouring online listings, visiting dealerships, and test driving more cars than I can count, I finally stumbled upon what seemed like the perfect used car for me—a sleek 1998 Mercedes Benz E250 Diesel (W210) and a price that didn't break the bank. The excitement was real!

First off, the initial meeting with the seller was smooth. We arranged to meet at his house, and the car looked even better in person than in the photos. The car had some issues like power steering pump leak, sound from suspension etc. But the engine and gearbox were in awesome condition. Literally no smoke at even full throttle. I was sold!

Some history

I started my quest for a new set of wheels with one brand in mind – the iconic Mercedes-Benz W124 E250. I had this dream of cruising in a classic boxy Benz, imagining the smooth rides and the envy-inducing stares. But the asking price of good condition W124s was too high.

In a sudden twist of fate, I found myself torn between W124 and W210. After a test drive, I made the leap and went for the W210. It felt like the right choice given the ride quality, 1/4 price of W124 etc.

After some back-and-forth with the owner, we finally settled on a price. But here's the kicker – the owner threw in a brand-new battery (15K) and a year of insurance coverage (10K) as part of the deal.

I know that this Benz is labelled as the worst E-class in history. But for me, this is an awesome deal given the ride quality, fuel efficiency (13-14 kmpl) and bulletproof engine (same W124 engine). Only issue I am facing is the low ground clearance.

In the quiet town where I reside, nestled between green hills and winding streets, my car emerges as a rare and distinctive presence amidst the commonplace vehicles that navigate our familiar roads. Currently, W210s are very rare. Most of them are either scrapped or in very bad condition. But I have the feeling that if I maintain the car with genuine spares and the right mechanic, this will be more reliable than the latest Mercs.

Mileage

Car has clocked 175,000 kms but the engine has good compression. These engines are known to clock 5,00,000 kms without any issues. Engine still starts in half crank.

Interior

Car still has the original leather upholstery without any cracks. Only needs some detailing. Planning to get new covers for the speaker as it is cracked. The rear seat is very comfortable for long-distance travel. The boot is large as well.

Air conditioning

Air conditioning is cooling adequately.

Gearshift & clutch

Clutch is soft and the gearshift is smooth. There is some vibration in the gear lever. I ordered gear lever bushes to rectify this.

Overall NVH levels

Not very quiet like new generation cars. Diesel clatter is audible in the cabin but I like the clatter of old-school engine

Fuel efficiency

Fuel efficiency is 12 in the city and 16-17 on the highway. These figures are on sedate driving.

Steering

Steering feel is good. The steering wheel has some wear. Planning to replace it in the near future.

Braking

Braking is not very effective. I bought new brake pads but need to replace the brake rotor as it is not smooth.

Drive

As expected from a naturally aspired non-turbo diesel, acceleration is just adequate only. But when the car gains momentum, it's fun. This engine is a real workhorse and can run on vegetable oil too (saw some videos on YouTube). I replaced all the O rings in the fuel line.

Things I like:

• Good road presence
• Magic carpet ride
• Engine's character (even though it's underpowered, loves the sound and feel)
• Timeless design

Things I don't like

• Low ground clearance
• Spare parts availability

Intended usage

Planning to use this car as my daily commute which is around 20 km

Final verdict

IMO, W210 is an understated car which is a real value for money. This is the right time to buy given the current market prices. Properly maintained and running examples are very few. So, the value will definitely go up in future. The facelift CDI models have good power and ground clearance but I feel it's easy to maintain this old-school NA diesel. The parts availability is ok in India. If you have any friends/relatives in the UK/Europe, parts are dirt cheap to buy. Almost all parts are available. I prefer brands like Lemforder/Febi as it is cheap and have good quality. For reference, the 4-piece tail lamps (Depo brand) costs INR 4,500. The car can be maintained in normal workshops.

Works planned:

• New headlights (Friend arranged brand new Hella from Germany)
• Tail lamps (Friend arranged from Dubai)
• Engine and gearbox mounts (Lemforder brand)
• Changing all fluids
• Power steering overhaul
• New brake pads and hand brake shoes
• Diesel filters
• Air filter
• New fog lamps (Friend arranged brand new OE from Germany)
• OE 15-inch rims (Currently in 17-inch S500 alloys)
• New tires (Yokohama S drive)
• Full suspension rebuild
• New ABS sensors
• Minor touch ups
• New Hood emblem, rear emblem etc
• New signal lights

Parts already arrived and will update the progress.

Front view

On Flatbed

Side view

OE Fog lamps

Signal light

New Yokohama in 15-inch alloys

Fuel filter

Brand new Hella headlamps

Oil filter

Diesel (Got turbo diesel as it is common overseas)

E250 badge

Shaft Rubber

Wheel bearing

Shocks

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.