My core problem is that though I can afford a new one, I am not able to draw myself to splurge 2 to 3 million rupees on a new car.

BHPian PNTLovesNano recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Hi to all the SUV/MUV lovers, I need sound and thorough advice.

As my signature says, I have had owned three cars Maruti Alto (2011, sold after 90K kms), Tata Nano (2014, light use, secondary car), and Hyundai Grand i10 (2019, current primary car). For a long time, since 2008 at least, I wanted to own a seven seater.

Recently, I went to Maruti, Kia, and Mahindra showrooms to check out the seven seaters. Kia Carens costs 18L, Scorpio 17-21L, and XL6 15L. All have their own strengths and weakness. However, I was mightily disappointed with Scorpio's 3rd row. I don't think I can put even a 10 year kid on a 300kms drive. From June onwards, I will require a powerhouse. Monthly twice I will be doing Bangalore-Sandur, and once every second month Bangalore-Tirupati, and once every quarter Bangalore-Mantralaya.

After having done the above trips multiple times in each of my three cars, yes including the puny Nano, I want to now go for the bigger machines. However, the only problem is Vitamin M, aka money. The prices of cars have gone through the moon and the new ones are outrageously expensive. My core problem is that though I can afford a new one, I am not able to draw myself to splurge 2 to 3 million rupees on a new car. Hence, I was thinking about a used Innova.

A used Innova Crysta is again prohibitively expensive in Bangalore. A 2016/17 1L kms on odo costs 15-18L. I can as well go for a new one instead of used Crysta. Alternatively, I feel XL6 is a better buy than the pricey used Crysta. This overall cost-cutting took my practicality elsewhere. I think about XL6, Carens, and Crysta, only Crysta is the safest.

My question to the MUV world is:

• Is a ten year old Innova worth the trouble? Will Toyota's bullet proof reliability see me over the next 15 years?
• Is plonking 25L over Crysta (base model, I know :() worth the bucks?
• Which used cars six/seven seaters worth looking at? Honda BR-W, Mahindra Xylo, Mahindra XUV500, or something else?
• Is a monthly run of 3K good for a six-seven seater?
• Any other advice that I need to look out for?

Here's what BHPian manofinfinity had to say on the matter:

10-year-old Innova would not be a problem if the previous owner maintained it properly, heck even today we see pristine condition qualis which are 20 years old and running fine.

Buying a new Innova for 25 is any day better than buying a used one for 15 lakhs with over 1 lakh km on the Odo.

I think innova would be the perfect and ideal choice, the others you mentioned are not full-size three-row mpv except Carens.

I would suggest finding a used crysta under 15 lakhs with low mileage in the GX AT variant, anything above 15 is too much in the case of used Innova Crysta.

Here's what BHPian Sanidhya mukund had to say on the matter:

As someone who owns an Ertiga VXI CNG 2021, a 2024 Innova Hycross ZX (o) and regularly uses a 2021 Innova Crysta GX 2.4 BS6, I would strongly suggest one thing: If you can afford a new Innova, you should not even think about the XL6. The ride quality, high speed stability, comfort levels, durability and sure-footedness and confidence of an Innova over long distances simply blows cars like the XL6 and Ertiga away.

XL6 and Ertiga are decent city cars. Think of them as a larger Swift that just happens to have 3 rows of seats. But for long highway drives with family? They simply do not feel confidence inspiring. Also do consider the MG Hector Plus and the XUV700. You could get their mid-spec models for the same price as an entry level Innova. For someone who desires features, tech and modernity without breaking the bank, they make a decent case for themselves. The XUV700 comes with strong engines as well.

Here's what BH{ian JediKnight had to say on the matter:

Consider the Mahindra Marazzo. Super comfortable and refined. Try to get a used Bs-4 M8 if possible.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Then Innova was placed inside the wash chamber where a horizontal and vertical rotating part will do the cleaning with multiple iterations.

BHPian sasta_rider recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Update about the 'n'th service of the Innova:

On 27-Feb-2024, I had booked an appointment for the periodic 5000 km interval service at Amana Toyota, Kasaragod. The service appointment was made via the Toyota i-Connect app: selecting the service center, service advisor, date and time was all seamless. Previously, either Dad or Uncle used to book the appointment via phone call. But when there is technology to use, why do certain things the old school way!?

Before I post the screenshot of the invoice, let me give the update on recent incident that happened:

In mid-Feb, Innova had done multiple runs to Sullia and one long trip to KR Nagara for a family function. Before that, it required a good body wash and interior cleaning. The pathetic summer did not allow me to do it on my own at home. So, I thought why not to try the machine wash which I had been seeing a lot of times when going to my uncle's home. So, one fine afternoon, took Innova for wash there.

The interior was cleaned, waste removed and dashboard polish was done as part of the full body wash. Followed by this, the supervisor inspected the rear spoiler. If they doubt the rear spoiler or any part is vulnerable during this machine wash, they proceed to maually wash the entire vehicle. But spoiler was intact. Supervisor then covered the front and rear wipers with a rubber roll, they attached cello tapes to the either side of the front and rear bumper. Then Innova was placed inside the wash chamber where a horizontal and vertical rotating part will do the cleaning with multiple iterations. This wash was followed by a blower too, which was attached to that machine setup. So, very less manual interruption unlike in the traditional car wash facilities.

If you look closely, the wiper blades can be seen covered with a rubber to avoid getting ripped off or damaged!

The water is sprayed from all 4 directions. Even the bottom was cleaned after the body wash!

Once the machine wash was completed, Innova was moved ahead so that the workers can wipe the water remainings and polish the body and interiors. This is when I noticed the left side roof drip moulding was ripped off. I did not have any complaints towards the car wash because I should have asked ASC to replace both the mouldings during the last service where the front windshield was repaired due to water leak.

Immediately I called the Amana Toyota Parts, enquired about if the mouldings were available. If not how long it will take to acquire the parts from Bidadi plant/warehouse? I was informed that the item will be available in 2 working days and I had to make advance payment of ₹1000/-.

Since Innova had planned family runs in place, I got that fixed temorarily from a FNG who is a ex-Toyota employee using 3M tape. After all the family functions got over, a personnel from Toyota came to pick up the vehicle for the planned maintenance. Below is the work carried out during this service:

This is the periodic service invoice screenshot. Labour plus part charges mentioned clearly.

The body shop invoice which included the drip moulding work carried out professionally!

Toyota maintains periodic/general service invoice separate and the body shop/paint job invoice separate. I believe the same is followed by other OEMs as well.

The total bill came out to be ₹10120/- (including the advance payment). At the current market condition, this is not a too heavy bill for the pockets. And, I believe in 'reduce and reuse' policy of the 3Rs. Instead of going after a car at the present times which is solely dependant on sensors and electronics majorly, I still love to keep the old school vehicle which are simple but reliable!

A lot of restoration work items have been planned by me. Once the necessary funds are made ready in coming days, I am planning to get the Innova fully repainted from Thrust Performance at Bengalaru. More on this when the right time comes!

Until then, drive safe!

Sud.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and infoermation.

If the Innova Crysta D AT was available still, our search would have ended there immediately as our family loves the Innova

BHPian satya180 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

After the arrival of our second child, we were looking for a 3 row 7 seater MPV as it was the only way we could travel with both the child seats together.

The main requirement was that it should seat 7 (5 adults + 2 child seats) and carry 2 diaper bags, one kids toys bag and one stroller at minimum in the boot with all 3 rows being used. So no captain seats in second row. Diesel Automatic Only. Only top variants were considered.

We test drove the following cars, all on the same day, called the cars home as it was easier to test the child friendliness of the cars:

XUV 7OO:

Lovely car, very premium inside, good to drive, Mom loved it most and was her choice amongst all,

Not considered mainly because boot was too small for my requirements, not deep enough to fit even diaper bags without squishing them, a baby stroller just cannot fit.

Scorpio N:

Feels like a premium off road car, dad and wife would have found it intimidating to drive as it feels quite heavy and big to drive, boot was impractical for our requirements.

New Safari:

Lovely car, Dad and I loved it, 3rd row was very spacious and usable for adults. Lovely to drive, good engine and gearbox, electric power steering has made it way lighter to drive. However the boot was too impractical for us and we were sad to see it go off the list.

Innova Hycross:

Obviously the one to go for, biggest boot at ~240 liters, feels light build-wise compared to the Safari and XUV, interiors also feel less premium than both

Petrol and long waiting periods were the only dealbreakers honestly.

If the Innova Crysta D AT was available still, our search would have ended there immediately as our family loves the Innova and Im pretty sure we would not have even test driven other cars.

So we went ahead and got a Kia Carens. A total wild card entry. Never considered it, never read about it, no videos or even acknowledgement of its existence.

230 liter boot so fits everything we want, super efficient 1.5L D is also easy to drive, light steering, decent torque converter 6AT. Cabin is spacious too thanks to 2780 mm wheelbase, which is surprisingly the longest of all.

Car is decent to drive and has decent ride and handling, alone or fully loaded.

Tankfull is ~600 kms range. Expressway end to end is ~25kmpl. Have seen 34 kmpl too on the expressway.

Been almost 2 months now and done 5600kms.

Ownership so far has been wholesome, it turned out to be a way better choice than initially expected.

Will keep this thread updated.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Now, I did not consider Chevrolet, Mazda and Acura because Chevy is too expensive, Mazda and Acura were not worth the money.

BHPian LegalEagle recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

As the saying goes, all good things must come to an end one day. Unfortunately, for me, my association with my RedNBlack Truck was too short for my taste and feel.

As you are aware, I had to shift to the US suddenly, due to increased and frequent travel requirement(s) - quarterly basis - and also increased work pressure. The choice has not been easy, and because of the nature of the move, I am in the process of moving my family over, and winding up everything back home.

This meant that I had to sell my Truck to another person who I hope and pray takes care of it the same way I did. It was a good deal, and was handled by my wife, as I was already traveling to the US.

One of the things which my trips to the US have taught me is that you need a car - come what may - the minute you land here - unless of course you are in a city like New York, Washington, Chicago or a similar one. I have moved to Orlando, the Retiree's paradise in the US, and a very relaxed and laid back city as is. Fun Fact - There are a total of 11 theme parks in Orlando - 4 from Disney, 4 from Universal, and 3 from Epcot, in addition to 2 or 3 more being built.

Now, it is assumed that for a city of this size and with so many theme parks present, there would be good local transport. The answer to that is a big NO. There is only the SunRail - train - which is very limited and not popular. The buses are infrequent, and there is no Metro or equivalent present at all. This can be attributed to the fact that everyone who comes to Orlando, by default, comes with a car - own or rental.

Due to these factors, one of the first things, which we had decided as a family, was that when I move to Orlando, I will (a) move alone first and setup a place to stay, and (b) take a car on rent right at the airport. This was to ensure that I do not end up spending a fortune on Lyft(s) and Uber(s), while moving around.

The first step to this was applying for an IDP. Here comes the twist in the tale/tail - my current license in India is based out of Delhi. So I can't just walk up to the RTO and apply for an IDP in Hyderabad. I had to get the license shifted to Hyderabad.

Let us put it this way - due to the paucity of time, and the number of items which needed to be addressed before I move to the US, I decided to take the help of an agent to do everything. That helped because I was able to get my new license from Telangana in under 36 hours from the time I started the process, which normally would have taken me 10-15 days. I had to provide a copy of my VAHAAN report on the license and a local address proof - which was my Aadhaar. Once that was done, the next step was to apply for the IDP, which I again went through the same agent. It was in my hand(s) within an hour. Fun Fact - Telangana issues QR based Card printed IDP's which is the same as your India license. For normal people, it is the same as your India license.

Now, a question would have arisen in the minds of all - why go for an IDP when you can use your India license to drive in US. The simple reason being - it reduces the hassle of keeping your passport with you at all times. It also acts as a proof of ID if needed - which can be backed up with your passport if needed.

Also, let me clarify that only holding the IDP is not sufficient. The IDP - card type or otherwise - is linked to your valid India license. Therefore, at all time(s) carry your India license and IDP if you are using your IDP outside. The rental companies, and the police ask for both, and not presenting the India license is treated as driving without a valid license. For those thinking how do I know that - almost learnt of this the hard way.

With the IDP in hand, the next question which vehicle to rent till I buy a car? A number of people suggested, just walk over to the Rental Desk and take it on rent there. Not sure of the availability, I had a colleague, who was traveling to MCO incidentally to check the prices for a rental for 28 days or so. Surprise 1 - rentals at MCO are not possible for long periods. They will give it to you for a couple of weeks, but then you may have to return it and take a different vehicle due to availability. So this was out of the question.

Another suggestion given was to have someone in the US book it for you. It is assumed that it would be cheaper. Surprise 2 - Insurance is not offered by default if you book from within the US. This would mean that you have take insurance as an add on - which makes it very expensive.

Now, while I was mentally prepared for a high cost, I just decided, to hell with it, let us try to book from India itself. I did the search and was able to see the prices and all. Surprise 3 (Combo offer) - I could pay in INR, and the insurance was by default, covered and offered as is in the same price. PARTY TIME.

Now, for those interested in numbers, if I had booked from the US, it would have cost me $1900 or so - exchange equivalent - INR 1.5 lakhs. The price I paid was INR 91,000 only. A sweet saving of around INR 70,000. How did this happen - by default, Avis - the one I selected - bundled insurance with the rental car the minute I showed my location as India.

The vehicle I selected was a Hyundai Elantra or equivalent - unlimited miles usage, requirement to return with a full tank of gas, and payment of any penalties and tolls incurred with surcharge.

Now, I had a small doubt in my mind - will Avis honor this deal or not? It was actually better, the Avis Rental Desk at MCO were themselves surprised at the price, and mentioned that this is one of the best deals they have ever seen in their lives. They did take a $250 hold on my credit card, which will be removed after 3 weeks or so of return.

So here I am, in the US, with two suitcases and one carry on bag - in the parking lot of the MCO airport, searching for my rental car. Surprise 4 - it is Red - Nostalgia kicking in - and the Tag has the first 3 letters of my initials - Moist eyes time. Load the luggage, and as always - walk to the driver's side like India. Walk over to the "actual" drivers side, make the mandatory adjustment(s) to the seat and start the car. Surprise 5 - the car has only 800 miles on it. I was like - nice - Time to run in the car.

Pull out of the parking lot, tensed and worried - trying to understand the road symbols, while setting up GPS on my phone - trying to avoid tolls. Did I struggle, for the first 15 minutes Yes!. Started saying this to myself - you are driving on the wrong side, and continue doing so. Free rights everywhere, and STOP at the Stop line.

Make it to my hotel and relax. Freshen up and get a hang of the car. Feedback on the US Spec Elantra - It is a good and comfortable vehicle, but the engine for sure is designed for efficiency, and not for speed. The strain on the engine was visible when I was driving on the freeway(s) and it was clear that I cannot keep up with the other vehicles, and had to be content with driving the speed limit, and not above it, like others.

Continue reading on BHPian LegalEagle's Chrysler Pacifica for BHPian comments, insights and more information.

I get a higher FE during the morning and a lower FE during noon.

BHPian Bonemechanic recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

I drive a Marazzo M8 diesel. In Kerala, the temperature soars to 40 °C during noon. I noticed a change in the FE numbers of my car during the morning and noon hours.

Traffic is higher during the morning drive, but the outside temperature is around 26 °C. Non-time traffic is less compared to morning time, but the temperature is high around 38 °C.

I drive alone with the ACC set to 24℃ and 100% time. The driving pattern is also almost the same for to-and-fro driving.

But I get a higher FE during the morning and a lower FE during noon. I assume the FE drop is because ACC works more.

Attaching MID pictures for the last 3 days.

February 7:

February 8:

February 9:

Upper photo is noon drive and lower photo is morning drive.

Just like an EV, consumes more power during the winter to heat, while an ICE uses more fuel to cool during the summer.

Here's what BHPian Shreyans_Jain had to say on the matter:

The extra electrical load due to the radiator fans running full time has minuscule effect on fuel consumption. Two other factors have a greater role.

• The AC system. High ambient temperatures reduce the temperature difference against peak compressed gas temp. This reduced delta T lessens the efficiency of the AC and makes it work harder, which is extra load on the engine. Effect increases progressively with temperature.
• The hot ambient air going into the engine is less dense, which makes for lower availability of oxygen which means lower output. Ergo, engine has to work harder to ferry the same load. Effect increases progressively with temperature, and also creates a positive feedback loop with point 1.

Overall, performance and fuel efficiency both get adversely affected with high ambient temperatures.

Here's what BHPian Jeroen had to say on the matter:

I think the difference if FE can not be explained by ambient temperature alone. Check a map and see what the vertical distance between your departure and arrival point is.

You will find you are probably driving a bit uphill one way and down hill the other way. Not enough to notice when your driving. But even a small gradients has a big impact on fuel efficiency.

Jeroen

Here's what BHPian antz.bin had to say on the matter:

Winter mornings have better efficiency on ICE cars than summer afternoons.

Colder air is denser and when the engine breathes that air, the combustion is better generating more torque for every combustion stroke.

This has been experienced since ages. It has nothing to do with engine being warmed up.

The other loss at a hotter time of day the one to cool the cabin. Air conditioner actually uses a lot more Diesel than us Diesel heads realise. As per my calculations, it uses 250-300ml per hour of running for my sub-4 m car on automatic mode even on a cold December night. Daytime usage at 40°C ambient temperature in a substantially larger car will be even higher per hour.

Both these factors should explain the lower efficiency in the afternoon time compared to the morning which is presumably substantially colder these days.

Here's what BHPian Darthveda had to say on the matter:

Driving an EV for past few years has taught me the range is influenced by the environmental changes too, first time I noticed how much the wh/km increased when the road was wet, the same I noticed during cold temperatures too, when i say cold i mean around 12C. Even though I did not use AC, the wh/km was higher than before.

All these very evident in EV vehicle as we get measurable changes in wh/km, since liquid fuel have a very high density, it doesn't catch our attention in ICE.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Found the iMT as a nifty solution if you want the fun of driving a manual but don't want the hassle of pressing the clutch.

BHPian nightfury95 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

I went for a test drive today. Got in touch with my Kia dealer earlier last week and requested to test drive two models of the Carens and they arranged all the cars promptly for my convenient date at the dealership. They did offer to bring the car home but said could only get one vehicle at a time and I didn't want to create a big hassle for either doing it for multiple days so I asked if they could just have the vehicles ready at the showroom and the salesperson I am dealing with made sure all the variants were available at the said time. I test-drove the Diesel AMT, Petrol iMT and Petrol DCT (it was a last-minute choice).

I ended up test-driving all three models along with my dad who took turns mid-way. We had another two of our family members along with the salesperson so the car was almost fully loaded which gave a good real-world use scenario for my case. I finalised my booking for the DCT variant.

A little ironic since I said DCT was out of the picture but I was surprised too after my final decision. Why?

The model I drove first was the iMT petrol variant. Found it as a nifty solution if you want the fun of driving a manual but don't want the hassle of pressing the clutch. It was easy to get used to from the get-go after figuring out the sensitive brake pedal and the little delay in power delivery after pressing the accelerator. I was sold on the variant but waited to make a decision.

Second was the 1.5 Diesel Auto. Coming right after driving the petrol, first thing I noticed was the lack of power but it does get going once the turbo kicks in and the torque felt healthy but was nowhere near as nippy and responsive as the petrol. Surely does struggle to get going initially with the car full and not the best option if the car is going to be full. The engine did feel very refined and the cabin felt quite silent. Long-term thoughts about changing regulations and fuel prices becoming similar plus the car won't be used too frequently made me drop the diesel option right away.

Finally, got to drive the Petrol DCT variant. My friend suggested me to try the DCT too since the previous three days I spent driving my friend's Seltos 1.4 Turbo petrol DCT while attending a wedding in Bangalore giving a little heads up on what to look out for and comparing the new 1.5 powertrain in the Carens. With the recent experience, I set out for the test drive and the getaway felt smooth and just normal like a torque converter automatic, unlike the slightly jerky getaway I felt with my friend's Seltos. I chatted with the salesperson while driving and he was quite honest saying the older DCT from the 1.4 was not refined at lower speeds and had a few issues but this is not the case with the ones in the 1.5 variants. He also told me I could do a more brief test drive to see how I felt with a few more minutes in the car so I took a little longer route with few signals, a little highway distance and the moderate Chennai traffic gave it a bit of test and I did feel the difference, the gear shifts felt seamless all the way and even at lower speeds which are DCTs vain(the Carens tuning seems to be on the gentle side rather than sporty). Swapped mid-way with my Dad taking over the wheels to drive back to the dealership and within a few minutes he said "This doesn't feel like the horrible VW you had" which was bitter but also honest words and he liked the convenience of the automatic and not wanting to still shift without a clutch so this sold me on the DCT variant. Dad is going to be using it the majority of the time so his thoughts were the priority.

Coming to DCT concerns, even though decided I did think for a while before making the final booking:

The ownership experience with my VW Golf GTI was quite a mess. I replaced two gearboxes under warranty within the first 10000km and I don't never pushed the car to its max. The initial one failed due to electrical issues while it was parked and the second one due to overheating while on the highway and my Dad was driving it so it sums up his feelings about my VW. The third one lasted without issues till I sold after a year of ownership but was jerky and did have transmission fluid cooling issues which got corrected by an aftermarket part and a small remapping.

I drove my friend's Seltos initially when it was kind of new and drove again after two years again this time which was already at 6 digit odometer reading. He said he learned to live with the initial jerks but hasn't experienced overheating issues after the couple of initial ones and mentioned very heavy traffic may be an issue which won't be a problem for me since I live in the outskirts of the city and won't be experiencing a lot of traffic daily. Seeing the car that has held up well over the last four years, did give me a bit of a relief it was quite reliable. So it did make my decision easier, while the iMT felt good but the automatic just felt more convenient considering the idea of clutch is not present in both cases. Slotting the gear into N or P in an automatic gearbox during a long halt is always a good practice whether is a TC or DCT. The torque converter is still better and more reliable for day-to-day use but it here had to go for the option available. Like you said Vivek, only time will tell.

Ended up booking the Luxury Plus 7 1.5 T-GDI DCT variant and got a promised delivery window between March 3rd and 4th week. Now got to wait for the car.

A very good observation, Carens is really spacious for a small-looking car from the outside and even the third row felt comfortable for a tall adult.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Opinions on opting to buy a MUV over SUVs, sedans and hatchbacks.

BHPian Aditya recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Today, most car buyers prefer SUVs over anything else. This is mainly because these vehicles offer:

1. Higher seating which means a better view of the road
2. Seating for 5-7 people
3. Large size & butch styling along with commanding road presence which is important in India where "might is right" on the road
4. Large and powerful engines and
5. High ground clearance which is necessary to deal with the large bumps and uneven & unpaved patches of road - a common problem in India.

Sedans are considered a waste of space by many as they are long and wide but can seat only 5 at best. Besides, in many sedans, the seating is low and headroom is restricted. While they offer good luggage space, their boots are not as versatile as SUVs due to their limited height and (in most cases) fixed rear seatbacks. Ground clearance too can be an issue.

Hatchbacks are practical to use in the city, but they have their limitations. They are small in size and like sedans, can carry 5 people at best. Again, like sedans, the seating is low and headroom is limited. Then there is another problem. Their boots are not large enough to carry most Indian families' vacation luggage. You can fold the rear seatbacks to increase luggage space, but then, it's either 2 people onboard with lots of luggage or 4 people with limited luggage.

These factors made SUVs and crossovers very popular on our roads. However, they are among the more expensive cars in a manufacturer's model line-up making them more difficult to access than other body styles for people.

That's where MUVs come in. Let's see how these cars are the most sensible choice for people looking to buy a vehicle today.

Size & styling

MUVs are only slightly smaller in size than SUVs. This means they are still large and road presence is not really compromised. They are still given a lot of respect by other road users, particularly sedans and hatchbacks.

Coming to styling, MUVs do not offer the butch styling of SUVs, but they are no longer unappealing. With time, their styling has become a lot more modern and in some cases, even classy.

Space for people and luggage

MUVs can carry 7 people and luggage in sufficient comfort. There is enough headroom and legroom in all rows of seats. Some come with captain seats for the second row that offer excellent comfort.

In terms of useable third rows, your best options are among the MUVs. A variety of seating combinations is available which gives them a lot of versatility. Most can carry enough luggage for 5-6 people as well making them excellent cars for touring with the family.

Ingress & egress

MUVs typically have a floor that's not as high as traditional SUVs. This makes getting in and out easier than SUVs. You don't need to climb into the car as you would do in an SUV. At the same time, their roofs are not low like in a sedan or hatchback. So there is no need to bend down to get in. You simply walk in and out of the car.

Powertrains

If you think MUVs aren't as powerful as SUVs or they're slower than SUVs, that's not at all the case anymore. The Kia Carens boasts of a 158 BHP, 1.5-litre turbo-petrol engine with a 7-speed DCT while Toyota claims that the Innova Hycross hits 100 km/h from a standstill in under 10 seconds, which is faster than the Fortuner! Even the Maruti Ertiga gets the same powertrain as the Vitara Brezza. Some of the earlier cars like the Innova Crysta shared its 2.8L diesel engine with the Fortuner and it was only marginally less powerful in the Crysta. However, the Innova's lower kerb weight gave it a better power-to-weight ratio.

Fuel efficiency

MUVs generally do not come with four-wheel drive systems like SUVs, which means they have less weight to carry. They are also lower and more aerodynamic than SUVs. These factors help MUVs best SUVs when it comes to fuel efficiency.

Ride & Handling

MUVs tend to ride better than SUVs. While the Scorpio and Fortuner feel bouncy, the Marazzo and Innova Crysta feel a lot more compliant. Monocoque MUVs like the Innova Hycross, Kia Karens and Maruti Ertiga have a very absorbent ride. The lower height compared to SUVs also means MUVs have a lower centre of gravity, which makes them better handlers.

Ground clearance

This is one area every new car buyer asks about. With constant digging and high & unmarked speed breakers, our roads are anything but smooth and predictable. While MUVs do not have the ground clearance of true blue SUVs, they are still sufficiently high off the ground to clear bumps and irregularities on the road. Sedans and hatchbacks are outclassed comfortably. Most MUVs can even handle a fair bit of rough roads without scraping their bellies.

Price

You will always find MUVs priced lower than equivalent SUVs which makes them comparatively affordable.

Status

MUVs have come a long way from the Sumo / Armada of yesteryears. Recent MUVs, such as the Innova Hycross and Carnival have become luxurious and fairly aspirational vehicles loaded with all the features one needs and more. This along with the space and comfort make them excellent chauffeur-driven cars. The improved looks make them appealing and as a result, they are now being used by even political figures, businessmen and industrialists.

Here's what GTO had to say on the matter:

SUVs have just 3 advantages over MPVs:

• Style & image (no.1 advantage)
• AWD or 4x4 (applicable to 1% of owners)
• Tougher body-on-frame construction for some SUVs like the Scorpio-N & Fortuner, as almost all MPVs are monocoques today. That being said, even a monocoque is tough enough for 99% of owners.

In almost every other way, MPVs are superior. Especially the space packaging = nothing can beat an XL6, Carens, Innova Crysta, Innova Hycross or Carnival for space & cargo room. Plus, today's MPVs are fast (Carens turbo-petrol, Innova Hycross does 0 - 100 in 9.xx seconds), good-looking, well-equipped, have neutral suspension setups and are generally better priced than their SUV counterparts.

I would buy an MPV if I needed something for the family. I love the Innova Hycross as well as Carens at their respective price points. As my primary self-drive vehicle though, I'd get an AWD / 4x4 SUV. I'm a sucker for vanity and as my personal car, I'd always pick an SUV over a Van.

Here's what BHPian DriverLess had to say on the matter:

No. I transitioned from MUV to sedan after selling my Innova and buying Vento.

• MUVs have a heavy boat-like feeling and this is especially true when they are fully loaded with 6+ passengers and luggage.
• They are not fun and you feel the bulk you are carrying every time you are doing anything other than straight-line driving.
• They are the worst when it comes to panic-breaking / quick avoidance direction changes.
• Fuel inefficient for the same engine power class.
• MUVs are the worst for a passenger. Ask anyone using the 3rd row paired with a slightly aggressive driver.

Sedans have their flaws. But I would any day pick a sedan over MUV to drive/being driven.

• My sedan can take more luggage than my Innova (without obstructing rear visibility)
• There is no loss of power even when fully loaded with 5 + luggage.
• I don't worry too much about road presence. I'm happy with less footprint on the road/parking for my primary highway use.
• I do worry about low GC. But if you drive sensibly even the worst speed-breakers/potholes are not a problem for a sedan.

Here's what BHPian Bhodrolok had to say on the matter:

Oh god! NO.

MPVs otherwise known as minivans have as much driving pleasure as riding a boat, plus they are too big and a huge pain to manoeuvre in our congested cities and an absolute pain to park.

Great for highway trips with family yes but that use case seems to be quite rare for most living in our cities.

Here's what BHPian ChauhanSaurabh had to say on the matter:

Until last year I would have voted a big no but a profound yes now. But tastes change and more so after owning one.

We researched a lot in the year 2022 for the next change after enjoying a remapped Figo. But owning hatchbacks like Punto, and Polo had spoiled us so much that nothing in the 10-15L bracket was striking a chord. I had this notion in mind that I would never own an MPV back until then. After discussions and showroom visits, I finally handed over it to my wife as I was unable to pick any. With work from home opening up, we were thinking of slowly coming back to 2 car garage which we had given up in covid. My wife chose the XL6 and this last 1 year has been nothing short of a dramatic shift in my mindset, driving style and judging cars.

Pros of an MPV:

• Loads of space inside. We carried almost 8 bags for a 15-day trip. XL6 secret storage within the boot is as big as my Figo's entire boot
• Seating combinations. This is with almost every MPV nowadays I guess. The sheer number of combinations possible with seats to achieve a comfortable tour is unmatched.
• Mileage. Even with all seats occupied, I don't see mileage taking a serious hit which would have a double expense if 2 cars were used for the same trip.
• Touring range. For me, vacation within India has to be through roads. I have done all this in hatchbacks but MPV has just given me the extra comfort and realistic higher range from occupants comfort point.

Cons of an MPV:

• Handling is not the forte. I used to be the guy who would play with tyres, and suspension to get the handling perfect on hatchbacks. It's a shift in my mindset now and I have also become a sedate driver with the max being 120-130 kmph
• Looks. They do not look butch. And I don't care about how people perceive it. But yes, looks seel in our country.
• Grunt. May be specific to XL6, but it does lack the outright grunt of a turbo-powered engine. But for me, its compensated by the sheer refinement this engine has and within 80kmph the battery assist works great. No lag under 80kmph.

I would like to keep this for the longest time even if another car joins us.

Lastly, two shots should speak for the purpose or capability of such a car.

Detour to Kishangarh on a trip to Goa.

OT, back in 2022 I was thinking we would get an MPV now and I get a 4WD car later. No matter how much I am yearning for Jimny right now I find it hard to justify to myself the additional capabilities apart from snow trips or I develop a taste for off-roading weekends.

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Smart hybrid kicks in for brake regeneration and gives torque assist when the secondary battery is fully charged.

BHPian EnthDriver recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Introduction:

We bought this XL6 zeta MT (Nexa blue) in mid of august and got it delivered by the end of the August, It costed us 14.63 L (on-road) in Bengaluru. The car has completed 1000 KM and has gone through the first periodic service (1 month / 1000 KM according to the manual). Before I continue with the review, here’s a disclaimer, I don’t drive yet as I am still 17 yrs, the observations other than driving have been compiled by me and driving observations have been taken as input from my father. Here’s a small backstory, we used to have a 2017 Hyundai Xcent in starlight grey (AFAIK), it was the SX model with 1.2 L kappa VTVT engine, while Xcent was enough for our daily chores such as getting groceries etc., the actual problem we were facing were the space constraints in the car whenever our relatives came over to our house, which is why we embarked on a search for a suitable 6 or 7 seater car under 16 lakhs for our needs. The first car that was in our radar was Ertiga.

Maruti Suzuki Ertiga:

Pros:

• The amount of space it offers for under 15 lakhs on road.
• Ingress and egress was easy
• Large rear windows didn’t make the interior look claustrophobic
• It’s a fuel efficient car.

Cons:

• The car’s interior is literally a “sea of beige” inside, which did not get vote from me.
• It has a taxi image, which didn’t make Ertiga much appealing
• The 15 inch wheels were too small.
• Quality of interior bits was sub-par for a car costing over 12 lakhs on road.
• 4 airbags is less than what the competition is offering.

Next, on our radar was Kia Carens, which was a interesting candidate :

Pros:

• Plethora of options for the engine and the transmission like 1.4 petrol, 1.5 T-Gdi turbo and the diesel engine.
• The quality of the materials is similar to Hyundai and it was top notch among the cars in this segment.
• The safety features like 6 airbags, all wheel disc brakes, ESP, hill hold assist etc. in all variants.

Cons:

• The looks were not appealing for our family, it looked too bland and EV-like in the front, the rear looked fine, it had a van-like appearance in the front overall, only the side profile was good and appealing to me. Hence, Carens was out of the race.

The third car was Maruti XL6:

Pros:

• Looks much better than Eritga and has a butch appearance with a SUV-like stance to it.
• The 16 inch wheels were much better and the alloys had a better design.
• The suspension was better than Ertiga.
• Features like 360 degree camera are useful for parking in tight spaces or bumper to bumper traffic.
• Rear captain seats were very comfortable ( became a thing for sweetening the deal )
• The rear AC was a separate module, not only a blower.
• The NVH was excellent, couldn’t even know the engine was switched on at first!

Cons:

• As said above for Ertiga, the quality of interiors was sub – par for a car costing over a million rupees.
• The K15C engine is a strictly suitable for those who want sedate driving experience and not expecting the engine to unleash its power on the highway.
• The armrest is small and basically unusable sometimes.
• The 3rd row seats are mostly suitable for people who are not over 5”7’ or 5”8’. I’m 5”5’ for the record and it was comfortable for me.

So the XL6 was the final contender and my father’s heart was set on it. Initially we were going to book the Alpha variant for the amount of goodies its offering, but we didn’t book the alpha variant(as it was taking over 1 month for the delivery , as we needed the car within 15 days, as we had a house warming ceremony for our second house in the village and needed the car for bringing the things and dropping people. The SA had informed us that the zeta variant in Nexa blue was readily available in their stockyard in Tumkur and it would take at least 10 days for the delivery, we went ahead and paid the booking amount of 25k. The showroom was very slow in responses especially for the test drive. Overall, the communication was poor and we had to push them for the updates regarding the delivery. The delivery was delayed for some reason by 5 days. Fast forward, we got the delivery date, only problem we had was insurance, as the showroom was charging high for it (33k), so we went ahead with Acko by paying 25,000 to avoid registration delay. The registration was done within 2 days and we were allotted the number, we had told them to deliver the car to our apartment because my father didn’t have enough time for going to the showroom due to work commitments.

On the delivery day:

The car was shining in the Nexa blue colour as I got down the school bus and immediately after getting freshen up, I ran down to look at the car. My father was finishing the final paperwork and understanding the features of the car, meanwhile I was excited and was looking all over the cabin checking for any abnormalities. I have to say , we didn’t do a PDI . I know it was a missed opportunity but i was occupied with exams and my father was occupied with work and nobody had the thought. But, things were perfect, nothing was wrong, like the fitting of the rear camera (more on it later), paint quality. We took it for a short spin with showroom people, my father was used to driving the car, right out of the gate, only thing was he felt the brakes were a little on the late responsive side as the Xcent's brakes had a sharp bite. the sales advisor told us its completely a normal thing and yes, it was a normal thing, my father got used to it in a couple of days.

Driving Observations:

• The engine is smooth and refined
• The power was enough to come out of it basement (obviously), don't know about ghats or hilly areas yet. yet.
• The 1st and 2nd gear were jerky, maybe because my father was used to the short gear ratio in Xcent and XL6 has long gear ratios ( Please clarify on this).
• Smart hybrid kicks in for brake regeneration and gives torque assist when the secondary battery is fully charged.
• Rear seats were damn comfortable.
• The camera quality was acceptable and guide lines were appearing properly. The Zeta variant doesn't come with a reverse camera by default, it has to be fitted as an accessory
• The mileage we were getting was 15 to 18 KMPL on highway and 10 to 13 KMPL in traffic
• The suspension absorbs minor bumps and overall its on a stiffer side, which makes the car to be very planted on the highways
• The steering is light and similar to our Xcent
• We had made our mind that the interior quality won't be near as good as the Xcent was.

The accessories opted were:

• Number plate garnish

• Window beading
• Carpets
• Rear spoiler
• Reverse camera

About the Xcent, we sold it through Cars24 for 4.50 L as they were the only ones who were offering a good price for our car, it was nearly used for 6 years, clocking in 25k KM on the ODO.

Recently, we gave it for for 1st periodic service after clocking in 1000 KMs, the service advisor was kind and we were getting updates hourly, only complaint we had was on the Suzuki connect working irregularly, which was resolved and the total bill came out to be Rs. 1300 as we opted for the rat mesh which costed 1300. The pick and drop was on time. The car is smoother now and feels better after much needed interior cleaning.

Thanks for reading this long review if you have and sorry if my observations weren't spot on or descriptive enough.

Regards,

EnthDriver

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This is the first vehicle where I have changed/repaired anything mechanical myself

BHPian AdityaDeane recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

So, had some repairs pending in the engine compartment, and Boodmo came to the rescue despite the delays in couriers after the recent floods and landslides in Himachal Pradesh.

The air filter was cracked and the duct pipe between the air filter and turbo also had developed a big crack near the turbo, hence changed both of these. Had a harrowing time with the self tightening clamp to connect the duct pipe with the Mass Air Flow Sensor, or whatever that connector is called.

BHPian AnuragIsaacRout's timely suggestion saved me so much time by replacing just the top half of my air filter box, and the lower half was in prefect shape, all the evident damages were on the upper half somehow. Thanks a ton brother!

This is the first vehicle where I have changed/repaired anything mechanical myself, I always used to rely only on garages and Authorised Service Centres for all such things, but living in a remote area with limited resources has made me a hands on guy, of sorts.

After receiving my sticker set last week, gave Saffira her 1st birthday gift in the guise of the Team BHP website link sticker today.

Hardly noticeable, but still present! The car needs a full body denting and painting job, before I can place other stickers on body panels, hence refrained from placing any other stickers at present.

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I am currently in the slope of enlightenment phase, feeling quite satisfied with the car.

BHPian rrsteer recently shared this with other enthusiasts

Time for the 40K and two years ownership update.

Will cover the update in two parts. The first part will be about the 40K service experience and in the second part will update about the car in general.

Part 1: The 40k service.

The dealer's customer service team worked overtime harassing me to bring the car for service. When I did, found my booking was not recorded in the ledger and so ended up being treated like a drop-in with no prior booking.

Apart from regular service, additional request from my side were: 1) DON'T touch the wheel alignment/ balancing (I am entitled to free wheel balancing/ alignment once a year) 2) DON'T wash the car (I do the job 10 times better + the cramped washing area doesn't give me the confidence that the car will come out of it without getting hit + I want to keep unknowns from driving my car to a minimum). But, inspite of repeated reminders, they ended up washing the car.

A Whatsapp group was created for the service, but absolutely no updates were provided, until i asked for it a couple of times. In the end and as if to taunt me, just one update picture was shared - the car hoisted on the lift!

Just a month back I got my 12 year old Etios serviced at the Toyota dealership - incidentally just opposite the Kia dealership. They arguably handle more volume and were attending to a 12 year old discontinued, cheapest model launched by them. But it was a totally satisfying, no fuss experience. In this case, dropped the car (their most expensive model at launch) for service, was promised delivery by 6pm, no updates were provided till 5.30pm, after which it was informed the car could be delivered only the next day. Next day, there were again no updates. From the advisor to the CRM head, all were unresponsive. Finally spoke to the GM service, who got the balls rolling and had the car ready by 2pm.

Given my perception of the way the dealership is managed, the folks who work there and the cramped spaces, I am always apprehensive of leaving the car for service. Unfortunately, this time my fears came true. The car was delivered with the front bumper lip unhinged from the main bumper frame. Such are my expectation levels from the dealership, I was almost relieved it was nothing major. But, credit where its due, they immediately agreed to repair it - no questions asked.

Finally ending with a happy note. The 40k service cost me just Rs 827/-, and even that was for a new number plate frame and urea top up. The service costs are covered under 5 year service pack which I got at a hugely discounted rate at the time of buying the car.

Some pictures from the service experience:

First up, the hit job by the dealer:

At the dealer, the cars go up a very narrow ramp and make successive extremely narrow hairpin turns to reach the service area which is at the third floor of the building. They have a specialist driver to take the Carnivals up there:

Look at all the cars. The washing area is not visible, but on the left side of where the cars are parked at the end. Very cramped and a disaster of a planning effort:

The sole update (in the form of a picture) I received on the Whatsapp group. It's so sad, it makes me laugh:

Dealership owner's Porsche Taycan. Didn't like the car's looks - looked too bulbous from the front and front side:

Part 2: My Ownership Experience.

My ownership is aptly depicted by the below chart. I am currently in the slope of enlightenment phase, feeling quite satisfied with the car. Finally, can start to visualise a long (10+ years) ownership period with it.

Premature tyre wear was a leading marker of my 'trough of disillusionment' phase. It hampered my ownership experience almost since I purchased the car. The 'issue' itself is quite widespread. I spotted premature tyre wear in all the Carnivals stationed at the dealership this time. But of course mine was an exception, and all thanks to Team-Bhp and in particular these two gents @ss-traveller and @zeng. More details available in this thread.

The present condition of the LHS rear tyre. The new tyre (put at ~30k) had worn somewhat by 34k, but since then premature wear has been arrested.

There were 3 Carnivals at the dealers. Each had worn off rear tyres. An example below:

If I discount the above issue, otherwise in the 40k kms of running and 2 years of ownership I have not faced any mechanical troubles or heard unwanted noises or seen unwanted lights. It drives tight and like new.

Before I end the update on the car, and I have mentioned this before but will repeat again, I am still surprised how fuel efficient the car has turned out for me. Believe it or not, it's the most efficient car we have right now. The relatively high figures are a result of it being mostly highway driven + driven at steady speeds between 90kmph and 110kmph + engine braking. Even so, an overall fuel consumption figure approaching 13 kmpl for a 2 ton/200 bhp car is worth applauding, I think:

In other news, have added a couple of accessories for the car:

A folding solar panel + rechargeable battery. This enables me to play TV in the car for kids when parked without using the car battery. I land up in such situations often, so this was much needed:

Got a car window net - again very useful when the car is parked and you want the windows rolled down, but need some sort of a screen:

One final picture, and that's it. Hopefully will post the next update at @50k. Cheers:

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