One has to pay 3 lakh in cash over and above the official on-road price to the dealer for the sale. This is NOT a premium for forced add-on accessories.

BHPian Axe77 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

The opening post has brought out a pertinent point and I hope it doesn’t get lost in some of the tangential aspects being discussed. Out of curiosity, I searched for less than one year Hycross. A couple of listings that came up in today’s search are in the screenshot. I had called one of the listings which popped up in my search a couple of days ago.

Here is the sum up of the proposal as the person outlined it:

• The listing was by a non-dealer intermediary. The actual sale will be by an authorized Toyota dealer.
• The car is obviously showroom brand new. Not a used car / demo car etc. Genuine new car where you are the first owner like any other new car purchase from the actual authorised dealer.
• Once you confirm the terms and put in a booking amount, they will reveal the name of the dealer. It was confirmed that it is a Mumbai-based dealer (since my search was Mumbai-centric). I have no doubt one can similarly purchase this in other city-specific dealers as well if one can do so in Mumbai.
• The car is a stock ZX/ZX(O) without a lot of bundled accessories. The key is that one has to pay 3L in cash over and above the official on-road price to the dealer for the sale (not sure how the dealer and DSA will share this). This is NOT a premium for forced add-on accessories. It is a pure and simple black market premium.

Now, in what world is this correct? This is a plain and simple good old days of unethical top-up amounts.

• Toyota cannot possibly be unaware of this situation. Why in the world is it turning a blind eye to this?
• Dealers are generating cash earnings with no tax implications whatsoever. Why should this be tolerated / or allowed?
• Legitimate customers are being taken for a ride with either non-existent supply issues, or not being allowed to book under the pretext that “bookings for ZX (O) are not open” while the reality is that ZX(O)s are being sold via these black market channels.

This is no longer a supply issue and it’s impossible that Toyota is unaware of this. That means they are a silent facilitator by allowing it to subsist instead of cracking down on dealers.

Dealers will be dealers like many other businesses run in India and I have little to no hope from them on business ethics. But personally, I have zero respect for Toyota India’s attitude on this issue. Are we accepting Toyota has no control over dealers continuing the narrative that customers still can’t officially book a ZX/ZX(O)s at all? This is unacceptable and should warrant an internal crackdown between the brand and dealers.

PS: While I have of course not actively pursued this conversation I seriously doubt this is a scam. It seems like this is a well-oiled DSA / dealership-styled sale.

Here's what BHPian Cavityavenger had to say about the matter:

You're absolutely spot on with your inference of this issue. I'm still waiting on my ZXO delivery in spite of booking it on the first day Nov 26, 2022. I know for a fact that the dealers are charging a minimum of 5L or more premium in the Chandigarh/Punjab region. I have recorded conversations with the dealership folks where they guarantee delivery within a couple of weeks. There are multiple social media ads/OLX and other local 2nd hand dealers involved where they take a cut for these direct sales from the dealer.

I emailed Toyota a year back about the lack of transparency in the process since the dealer kept giving me random estimates for delivery and my number on the waitlist. Instead of pursuing the matter, TKM forwarded my email back to the dealer who again gave me the same BS.

In June 2023 I got a text message with a link to some QRSTRIX website (not sure if this is operated by the dealer or directly from Toyota), which showed my booking number/date and my position on the waitlist. In June 2023 I was on waitlist no. 24 and as of March 2024, my position is 5. So am I to believe that the dealer has sold only 19 ZXO vehicles in 10 months?

I wonder if there is a judicial recourse to this where the court can ask these dealers to produce inventory records of vehicles sold/cars registered and match that with the waitlist numbers they are sending to customers.

Here's what BHPian Joyb had to say about the matter:

Trust me Toyota is totally hands in glove with all these corrupt practices. We had booked a ZX at the time of launch in November 2022, till date there is no sign of the car. Repeated mails to the dealer and Toyota generate no response or standard deceiving replies.

Now here is the interesting bit, one of my friends wanted to buy ZX 20 days back, got in touch with a DSA, paid a premium of around 2 lacs and voila, 15 days he got his HyCross ZX. Received direct calls from Toyota for various formalities, wherein in between the discussions the lady admitted that while bookings for ZX/ZX(O) are closed, they take booking of VX and show it as an upgrade.

What a mockery. I have told the family to cancel the booking as I have lost trust in the company.

Here's what BHPian Vibhav-Van had to say about the matter:

Typical black marketing scenario which reminds us of our license raj era.

The unfortunate part? A brand like Toyota, with a huge fan following in our country is resorting to this. Never expected this from the likes of them, because everyone raves about their customer-centric approach. Not sure if this holds true in this case.

Another perspective - If customers are indeed willing to pay that kind of a premium, should they officially jack up the prices by 3-4 lakh and ensure black-and-white profit from it? I know we will criticise them for being greedy, which they already are. But at least that's legal.

Guess it all boils down to what we as buyers prioritize. Go out of our way to encourage such practices for a car we love (Tbhp car of the year), because the purchase happens only once, but you live with it for years - and that experience matters most. But even in that scenario, are you sure this brand will not resort to such malpractice in the after-sales experience?

Or value ethics and goodness, and pick an alternative (if there is one).

I do not have first-hand experience with Toyota except when we went to TD a Hyryder last year, and that was nothing great. With respect to ownership, I've experienced Fiat, Ford and Skoda so far. Fiat was the absolute worst - looking to rip you off at every moment. Ford was such a darling - that's true goodness from the heart. I value that, personally.

Here's what BHPian IamNikhil had to say about the matter:

You are absolutely spot-on! It is highly unlikely that the Toyota India management is blissfully unaware of these shady practices; rather, in all probability, the senior honchos are willfully turning a blind eye to these under-handed dealings, whereby the dealers are happy.

Also, there is a possibility that the cut from profits is shared across all levels. Who doesn't like a little side income, that too tax-free? The appalling fact here is that they are doing so in broad daylight. Heart goes out to customers who are eagerly and patiently waiting for their deliveries, ready to spend their hard-earned money; while some with access to unaccounted resources and greasing-of-palms are taking them for a ride, literally and figuratively!

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

A trip to Manali and more with the Toyota Innova Hycross Hybrid.

BHPian woodstock3001 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Current ODO: 12,332

Apologies for the lack of updates on this thread; a combination of an injury sustained in an accident and subsequent work / personal commitments caused the delay. I'll be sharing frequent & necessary details in upcoming posts.

Returning to car, Hycross has been performing as expected, with no notable issues to report. Thankfully, I haven't encountered issues with CarPlay disconnects or inaccurate fuel gauge readings, despite daily parking on inclines.

Though this car will never win a beauty competition, I still cannot help clicking pics

I've been thoroughly satisfied with my Hycross and have been recommending it to anyone in need of a comfortable 7- or 8-seater vehicle, surpassing options like the XUV700 or Safari. While it lacks the diesel engine found in the Crysta model, it remains a highly competent vehicle, delivering a fun driving experience with excellent mileage.

Note: The Hycross cannot be compared to the 2.8D Auto Crysta; it belongs to a different category altogether, though it does surpasses the 2.4 Crysta. If I were to choose one aspect, I prefer about the Crysta over the Hycross, it would be the engine clatter. I love how Crysta sound . Until the Hycross is pushed, it remains nearly silent. 

Regarding interiors, I find the layout of the Hycross superior, while the Crysta boasts better materials. Period.

10k Service at 8696 KMS

Before my annual winter trip to the mountains with friends, I decided to proceed with the 10k service. Despite being offered various additional services like engine decarbonization, wheel alignment etc, I opted to adhere strictly to the details outlined in the Owner’s Manual. I informed the service advisor that the vehicle would only undergo services mentioned in the manual, nothing beyond.

The 10k service entailed an engine oil change, oil filter replacement, gasket replacement, and windshield washer fluid top-up, amounting to 3297/-.

Out of the total, 2714/- went towards the engine oil, with the remainder covering miscellaneous expenses. Since it was the second free service, no labor charges were applicable.

ORVM Indicator Replacement

During the 10k service, I inquired about the total repair cost for the ORVM indicator, whether only the child part would suffice or if the entire unit needed replacement. Despite forum members suggesting that only the child part required replacement, I poked service agent.

After consulting with the body shop, it was confirmed that only the indicator needed replacement, costing me 3403/-

Manali Trip 

In December 2023, embarked on a trip from Delhi -> Manali -> Baralacha La Pass (-5 kms) -> Tandi -> Udaipur, and back to Delhi, covering approximately 1400kms. 

Near Naggar Castle

During this trip, encountered two issues – 

1. Audio Sound: While I'm not an audiophile, I believe Toyota could have provided better speakers in a car priced at 30 lac +. Though I rarely listen to music during my daily drives, the speakers require replacement.

2. Engine Sound: Taking the Hycross to Baralacha La Pass posed no trouble at all. Despite minimal snow in December, I did not encounter any issues, even in Normal mode. Ninety percent of the trip was completed in Normal mode, with occasional use of Power Mode for fun. However, the engine occasionally became very loud, causing slight discomfort. This could be attributed to becoming accustomed to a silent drive, and I may consider damping to reduce engine noise if it proves effective.

Near Baralacha La Pass

This was clicked near Darcha (Towards Shingo La Pass)

That's all for now, but I have another 1500 KMS trip planned from Delhi to Ayodhya to Lucknow and back to Delhi, starting on April 6th.

Since this will be my first visit to Ayodhya & Lucknow, any recommendations and tips are welcome.

Click here to read what BHPians have to say about this.

I have test-driven SUVs like the Hyundai Tucson, Mahindra XUV700, Toyota Innova Hycross and BMW X1 but I am unable to decide.

BHPian sedanlover2021 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Hello, BHPians!

Please help me solve this conundrum.

TLDR: I'm looking to replace my slightly used VW Taigun GT with a larger and faster car for daily commutes in Bangalore traffic (75 kms to and fro). My wife shall continue to ride her Jeep Compass, so we need a bigger vehicle for family road trips (4 people, a golden retriever, a live-in nanny). Ideally, it wouldn't be a 7-seater (city traffic pain!). It should be fun to drive and offer some "speed thrills" when I want them.

Context:

I've test driven a bunch of cars but can't decide.

Tiguan: Very spacious 5-seater, fast, but the interior felt boring (same steering wheel in a 45-lakh car as a 23-lakh car?). It also lacks technology beyond the IQ headlights.

Tucson: Modern looks, loaded with creature comforts and tech, but only the diesel is enjoyable to drive. Worried about another diesel with the Jeep already in the garage, in case of NGT restrictions! The 2.0L petrol is underwhelming.

XUV 700 (petrol): A hoot to drive! The economy on that engine is terrible though. Also, I don't trust the ADAS and other offered tech's long-term reliability. I found the blind spot monitoring camera on the AX7L terrible. Can't justify spending nearly 35 lakhs on it mentally.

BMW 330 Li: My favorite. Magnificent engineering, luxurious, tech-filled, spacious, and a superb petrol engine. However, financially it's a stretch, even with BMW's finance plans. It's a "you-only-live-once" decision that might cause stress and isn't ideal for Bangalore's bad roads and flooding.

BMW X1 (petrol/diesel): Good city commuter in both engines, but not much bigger than the Jeep. Feels premium inside, but the on-road price (~60+ lakhs) is unjustified. Petrol makes more sense financially honestly!

Audi Q3: Powerful engine (same as Tiguan), but the interior doesn't justify the Bangalore on-road price. Limited tech compared to competitors and not very spacious either!

Innova Hycross: Disappointed with the build quality. The test drive vehicle (barely 1,500 km old) rattled everywhere. Cheap plastic abounds. Even the salesperson admitted it's not as sturdy as the Crysta. Worried about manoeuvrability in Bangalore traffic. A definite reject.

Not an EV guinea pig: I'm not ready to adopt an EV yet. I believe the technology will change significantly in the next decade, and I want to keep this car for at least 150,000 km.

Budget

Ideally 25-55 lakhs but can stretch if needed. However, the middle-class Indian in me will always be conflicted!

Help a fellow out! Open to suggestions in the used market as well.

Here's what BHPian tbppjpr had to say about the matter:

Which you are going to drive and park in Bangalore, right?

Bigger vehicle - won't it be a bigger pain with the bigger vehicle in the famous traffic of Bangalore?

Faster vehicle - won't it pinch you when you realize there is no space available to drive it faster, even if you find some space, there will be a speed limit of 60 km/hr max in the city area?

Here's what BHPian condor had to say about the matter:

Why not keep the Taigun and replace the Jeep with a 7 seater? It is small and suited for city use. And new.

Here's what BHPian sameerpatel90 had to say about the matter:

As per the mentioned budget - A less-driven X3/Volvo XC60 (Petrol/Diesel) could also be a good option for an upgrade (YOLO).

Why not the Toyota Innova Crysta 7-seater (Diesel) over Hycross (Petrol/Hybrid)?

If you would like to add another Jeep, I would suggest the Meridian only Diesel (it is an extended 5-seater with more luggage space, by folding the 3rd row).

Pocket friendly - Maruti XL6 (Petrol), as we get 2nd-row captain seats with some fancy features.

IMHO above mentioned is what I can suggest. I hope not to offend anybody here.

Here's what BHPian IshaanIan had to say about the matter:

Go to Honda Autoterrace and get yourself a deal on a lightly used CRV diesel. You would end up saving a lot of money and also score a warranty too.

Here's what BHPian nikvint had to say about the matter:

75 km daily, needs diesel, family of 5 + dog, needs 7 seater. I would go with XUV 700 Diesel. You will get used to its minor imperfections. In case, you use the car for 10 years, NGT restrictions are not a deal breaker.

In the case of petrol, it should be Kodaiq if you are okay with FE and monthly petrol cost.

Crysta is the third option, but it is not available in AT now, so you have to find less used one in the market. But in that case, usage will be restricted by no. of years, if NGT is applied.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

I feel that the car has gotten slightly peppier, but this might just be my imagination since the engine sounds less stressed.

BHPian Cresterk recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

It's been 8 months since we bought the Hycross ZX(O) and it has taken us to a lot of places with no drama. Took the car in for its 10k service last week.

It has been your average stress-free Toyota ownership experience. Still, I'm very meticulous when it comes to our cars so I made a little list of things I had noticed and wanted to get looked at.

We booked the service at the dealership we bought the car from, which is about an hour away. I had built a rappart there and their service techs had proven to be competent. We dropped the car off, had a coffee, took the fresh-faced new hire around the car showed him the issues I was facing and asked for a wheel alignment in addition to the jobs covered in the service package. He managed to rope me into doing wheel balancing and tyre rotation along with the alignment. I normally don't bother but sure, why not, it's just 500 extra. Also had a friendly chat with the salesperson who sold us the car and the senior service advisor who had taken care of my 1000 kms service.

I took an auto to the nearby mall since it would take a few hours for them to complete the job; they do some testing and jot down readings from the hybrid battery since it's a newly launched product. While wandering around aimlessly, I get a call from the senior service advisor telling me that there is something wrong with the rear brakes.

• Advisor: "You mentioned a noise from the rear brakes, right?"
• Me: "Yeah, I think it is just from the rust buildup since the brakes aren't used much in a hybrid. Figured I would mention it anyway just in case"
• Advisor: "Well we opened it up as part of the inspection and your rear brake pad is broken"
• Me: "What do you mean by broken?"
• Advisor: "It's actually quite strange, it's cracked and we can't even remove it from the calliper. I have never seen anything like this before. We would like to keep the car to collect details to send to Toyota and learn more"
• Me: "Ahhh but I have to attend a wedding with my family tomorrow. Can I take the car home and drop it off again on Monday?"
• Advisor: "Oh no, it really shouldn't be driven in this condition at all"
• Me, thinking back to 2 hours ago when I was doing triple-digit speeds on the highway: "Hmm, can I get a loaner car?"
• Advisor: "Yeah, let me check what's available."

I decide it's time to go back to the dealership so I hop in an auto and head back.

I meet the senior service advisor and ask him for more details. "Okay, so it's your left-side rear brake pad that is damaged. Have you noticed anything while driving?"

Me: "No, but I have noticed the electronic parking brake rusting stuck when parked overnight after driving in the rain or after washing. It makes a jarring noise and the car jerks for a moment the next morning. But after that, the brakes work fine"

Advisor: "So we went through our database and there is only one similar case. It happened to a Lexus sedan with electronic parking brakes.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the electronic parking brake since the motors can squeeze the brakes way harder than a human could"

Well, that made sense to me, since I knew the Hycross uses a caliper-integrated electronic parking brake. There are 2 actuators, one for each rear brake calliper. They squeeze the rear brake pads when activated and are the source of the mechanical whirring noise you hear when you pull the parking button. The personnel at this dealership has been really professional so far so I didn't bother asking to see the brakes. A luxury you can seldom afford these days.

Advisor: "But you didn't notice anything while driving or while braking? No changes in handling or feelings of losing control?"

"Ah so uh.... let's just talk about how we can fix this"

Advisor: "Alright so normally brake pads are not covered under warranty since it's a wear and tear item. However, the wear here is well within limits so it is not due to usage. It will take a few days to get the parts and for Toyota to approve the claim so you will get your car in 3 days."

Me: "Ah that's alright. Now what loaner car do you have for me?"

Advisor: "We can give you a diesel Crysta as that's all we have available now"

None of us were very happy with the thought of taking a white Crysta to a wedding at the Hyatt. I didn't want to look like I was driving a taxi and tried my best to sweet-talk our way into a Fortuner.

It didn't work, but hey, no harm in trying

Anyway, I was led to a white Crysta Z automatic. It was 2 years old and had run 35k kms. It was in surprisingly good condition and was neat and clean. I was also offered a base model Hycross petrol which was one of their test-drive cars. I thought about it, and I chose the Crysta since I figured it would be interesting to see what the cult favourite would be like after getting accustomed to my Hycross ZX(O).

I had written a lot about how Crysta was but this post is getting too long so I deleted it. It took a few days longer than expected to get the parts so I ended up driving the Crysta for a whole week. It was a very interesting experience and I will share it if people are interested.

Skip forward to a week and the Hycross is ready for delivery.

The defective brake pad was changed under warranty and didn't cost me anything. Since I had the Toyota Smiles service package to 20k kms, it only cost me 2k overall for the 10k service. Around 1.5k for the wheel alignment since I had requested it and 500 rs for the tyre rotation/balancing

Before taking delivery of the car, I noticed that they hadn't fixed the wheel cladding or side moulding. The wheel cladding was explained away as being not glued on the ZXO but clipped on so apparently they are somewhat loose as is.

The side moulding is still slightly detached at the ends. Figured I would just get it fixed myself.

Sadly, the insect in the tail light was also left as is since it would involve removing the entire tail light assembly.

The steering trim creaking and the centre console creaking were explained away as being normal for the Hycross sadly. I'm guessing it's due to the poor material quality of the plastic used.

The fuel level indicator changing when parked on inclines issue has been fixed thankfully.

As I was driving home, I realised the tyres were refilled to 35 psi except the front right tyre which was filled to 38 psi according to the TPMS system. No worries, I keep a tyre pressure gauge handy just for this. I stopped before entering the highway and just deflated the tyre with the gauge down to 35 psi to match the rest.

The ride home was uneventful. I was happy to notice that the engine noise had reduced after the oil change. It was the first oil change since I bought the car since OEMs don't do the 1k kms oil change anymore after the break-in period.

I believe the first oil change is the most important to get rid of all the metal shavings and whatnot from a new engine. I would recommend doing the first oil change at your own cost at around 2-3k kms and then following the normal 10k intervals. I didn't do it this time because I was unsure if it was needed for a hybrid since the engine isn't running all the time + I wasn't sure how it would work with the annual maintenance contract.

I also feel that the car has gotten slightly peppier but this might just be my imagination since the noise has gone down and the engine sounds less stressed. Or maybe they tweaked the hybrid system response in the system update.

The next morning I deflated all 4 tyres to the 33 psi as mentioned in the owner's manual as well as the sticker on the side of the car.

Noticed that all 4 rims now had slight scratches or pock marks from being poked by tools. The pockmarks might look small but they are deep when you run your fingers over it. These rims were ceramic coated too.

Oh well, I will try to get it fixed at the next visit to the detailers. Won't be doing wheel rotation/balancing from the dealership again.

Another thing I noticed is that now I can pair my phone/select Carplay when stopped in Drive or driving at crawling speeds. Earlier that option was greyed out unless the car was in park. ADAS, specifically the lane keep assist and pre-collision warning seems to be more intrusive now and I have turned down the setting in MID from normal to low.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

I realize that only my family and I can assign subjective weights to our requirements off the car and thus make a choice. But, would there be a framework that we could use to do so, and relieve me of this burden of choice?

BHPian dearchichi recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

For several months, I've been in a dilemma regarding my upcoming purchase of a car: I booked the Innova Hycross in November 2023 and have been told to expect delivery in March. But, I cannot seem to drop my interest in the Jimny, which I once test drove and rejected for its size and rear seat comfort (clearly, too soon). They, of course, are vehicles from different classes, but I assume both qualify as a tourer for our family (3 members and a driver).

A brief background:

I had a Tata Safari Dicor (2006) for 14 years. We drove it around large parts of South India (to popular and obscure heritage sites) for 1.96L kilometres before selling it. She took us around in absolute comfort (though her handling and braking were unstable) without a single breakdown and few niggles. But, age did catch up with her and maintenance costs were getting out of hand in the latter years.

I currently drive my brother-in-law's Hyundai Grand i10 (2013) and enjoy this one too. I never would have thought that the transition from a humongous SUV to a small hatchback could be eventless, but it indeed was. The ride is very harsh, but she is a joy on the highway with her taut handling and her peppy pull past 2500 RPM. Each winter, I make a monthly 600 KM round trip to dark skies for astronomical observations, and have an inordinate amount of gear to carry. She swallows it all without a problem, though that leaves just about enough space for the driver to be seated.

I'm 46, and the decade to follow would likely be my last for traveling the country before creaky joints, lifestyle diseases and reduced energy limit such carefree jaunts. I would like my wife and now 13 year old daughter to be with me for most of it.

Car requirements (all subjective):

Primary use case: highway and country drives with wife, daughter, myself and a driver at times.

Needs:

• Safety (both the 5-door Jimny and the Hycross has not been crash tested)
• Reliability
• Reasonably air cabin
• Not expensive
• Holds 100 kmph+ speeds well
• Good ride
• Decent handling
• Good braking

Wants:

• Tough build
• Fuel efficient
• Go-anywhere ability
• Street presence

I'm not for intimidation, but do desire some street presence since vehicles that have them tend to earn the occupants more "respect" in remote areas where I would sometimes be accompanied only by my wife and daughter, and could do with a vehicle that would encourage a sense of "restraint" among the locals.

Choices of cars:

Neither the Jimny nor the Hycross satisfies all of the above requirements, but my final choice has come down to those two. After having owned an Indian SUV for long, those from Tata or Mahindra don't interest me (also, I'd have no patience with the niggles they might present). The CSUVs don't seem like much of an upgrade from the Grand i10 in terms of space or utility.

The Hycross chooses itself for spaciousness, comfort, and reliability. And, the VX variant would give me a taste of EV technology that I would otherwise miss out on until my next car purchase in my 60s. But, perhaps unfairly, I sense it might sentence me to boring, lumbering drives along well-worn roads throughout its lifetime. Also, its long-term maintenance costs with respect to the batteries are unknown.

The Jimny, on the other hand, offers comfort for two and reliability at a much lower cost. It's seduces with the promise of access to the wilds, which I find impossible to ignore. But, passengers need to compromise with the poor rear bench squab. I have been on 3 more test drives since the first one, all in the past two weeks. I love its compact, understated, unpretentious stance and its potential to open up access with its 4x4 capabilities. I don't mind the lack of storage options. (There is one just ahead of the gear stick to keep my mobile phone, and two bottle holders behind it. Including the glove box, that's plenty for the first row passengers.) My wife was in the back row for a whole 45-minute drive and didn't complain of the lack of under-thigh support. But, she found the rear very bouncy over speed breakers. The ambient noise is very well attenuated, but the whine of the engine isn't.

I suspect more experience with these cars might apply a steadying hand to my mind that, like a dog drawn to a bone, seems to endlessly evaluate these two options given a spare moment. I've compared relevant performance and cost-of-ownership characteristics of these (and several crossovers), but cannot yet definitively choose one among these two.

Performance (numbers sourced from Autocar):

The numbers above strongly favor the Hycross: it provides strong braking and excellent driveability, with acceleration comparable to the two popular CSUVs. In contrast, the Jimny performs surprisingly poorly in both areas.

Cost-of-ownership:

Assumptions:

• Fuel cost per litre: ₹102
• Fuel annual inflation rate: 2.00%
• Annual depreciation of car: 10.00%
• Annual depreciation of insurance: 5.00%
• Inflation: 6.00%
• Running per month: 1500 KM
• Annual Investment Returns: 8.00%

We see that the Hycross VX would cost me ~Rs. 50L across 15 years of ownership while it would be ~Rs. 36L for the Jimny Alpha, a difference of ~Rs. 14L, or nearly ~Rs. 7,500 a month. But, this does not account for the opportunity cost. Assuming we fund it all from an existing cache of money (say, ~Rs. 50L), it would dwindle to ~Rs. 2.5L with the Hycross VX while the Jimny leaves ~Rs.20.5L behind, a difference of ~Rs. 18L or Rs. 10,000 a month. This is not an insignificant amount. All of these values are in today's rupees.

While my affordability of either vehicle is not in question, the relative worth of them is.

Verdict?

I realize that only my family and I can assign subjective weights to our requirements off the car and thus make a choice. But, would there be a framework that we could use to do so, and relieve me of this burden of choice?

As I see it, I have three choices:

• Go for the Hycross and mourn the loss of all those adventures that the Jimny promises. This is the option that my wife and daughter are for.
• Go for the Jimny and incur the (hopefully temporary) wrath of the family before they warm up to it. Accept its drawback with respect to road presence in the countryside.
• Option 2, and buy a CSUV/EV in a couple of years when the options would be greater (with the money saved, and possibly after selling the Jimny) if the family ends up hating the Jimny.

Thank you for your input.

Here's what BHPian androdev had to say on the matter:

I think it would be unreasonably selfish to subject your family to the rear seat of Jimny on long drives, especially when the alternative is Innova. While we all dream about the wilderness, getting there is 80-90% of the journey and Jimny is not safe for highway speeds compared to many other much cheaper options you can consider.

I own a Jimny and I do like the car more than I should but I treat it as a strictly two seater car for long journeys and I drive with a LOOOT of caution and restraint (thankfully it's low on power and acceleration figures which helps).

Maybe you should consider a good crossover that offers an all-in-one package. I don't see any particular reason why Innova is at the top of your list. Jimny, I understand, has some desirability factor going for it.

Here's what BHPian Kosfactor had to say on the matter:

Hycross is a very comfortable and practical vehicle to have , decent enough for highway although may not be very exciting to drive.

I think that Jimny won't suit someone at that age especially if it's the only car, generally we tend to have a family around , mostly full size kids who needs their own space , luggage space etc and a powerful drive train would be make it fatigue free to drive long distances. More than anything else, Jimny's size and the way it looks may get a No go from the family side, they may want to see their man drive a more substantial automobile.

There is another 4 door adventure vehicle coming in a few months , take a look at that before you decide for good, keep an open mind , experience for yourself before you sign the cheque - for long trips and go anywhere capability, you want something that's made with such things in mind.

As for the finance part of it, I would rather spend a bit more than I can afford and get the best tool for the job at hand, it's a lesser known fact that the men are at work even on holidays when the family is around, phew!

Here's what BHPian Geo_Ipe had to say on the matter:

I would tell you to stick to your Hycross booking. As some others have pointed out, Hycross vs Jimny is not a fair comparison. Jimny is a niche product, which everyone aspires to own, but hardly anyone does - the sales figures speak for itself!

As long as hard-core off roading is in your "wants" set the only USP the Jimny offers takes a backseat. Every single other criteria in your set of needs & wants are met by the Hycross. The Hycross is from two segments above, has better technology, is more comfortable and reliability is supreme! For a single car garage, there is no way Jimny is even a comparison to the Hycross.

Go for the Hycross now & pick up a used Jimny 2-3 years down the lane.

Here's what BHPian NPV had to say on the matter:

In my mind, the decision is quite clear after reading your requirements - go for the Innova Hycross, your family will be happy. Moreover, you have a driver so all the better and you will not compare it with an enthusiast car like the Jimny. Just be patient with your booking, do not cancel now.

Couple years later, if you still have the itch for something like the Jimny as a second car, especially if you’re going to be driving it, you can always make that decision.

Here's what BHPian Shreyans_Jain had to say on the matter:

If you are thinking Jimny, you needs will be much better served by the Hyryder AWD. It is far more spacious than Jimny, has much better comfort and mile munching abilities, and will fare much better off the road than the Innova HyCross. It is is perfect compromise for you, and will also provide the trouble free ownership experience that you seek

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

The Toyota Innova Hycross and Hyundai Tucson are the two main cars that we have considered / test-driven until now.

BHPian ron178 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

I always thought I knew the car scene well enough to at least be able to make a recommendation if someone I knew had to buy a car. But now that it's my own family, I realised how misguided I was.

Some context: I'm a teenager; this is obviously not my car. But as a family member, I am expected to be actively involved in the decision and we could really use some help.

The car we're replacing is a 2009 Fortuner 4x4 manual - most likely. It might also be a 2013 3-series diesel which is burning holes in my father's pocket. The point is, both of them are getting expensive to maintain and impractical to own in general, and we know one of them has to go. Logic dictates we decide what car to sell first, then what to buy, but it's a lot more complicated than that, and emotion and badge snobbery come into play more than you'd expect. But I digress. That part will, hopefully, be settled internally soon.

What we really need help with is narrowing down on a replacement for when we sell the… whatever it is.

What we know is:

• It has to be a premium SUV (or MPV) with a budget of ~INR 35L, stretchable if it's worth it.
• It should preferably have only two rows and comfortably seat up to five, although we are willing to make an exception for a third row if the car is otherwise good enough.
• The car should be reliable and easy on the pocket in the long term - we already had a bad experience with the F30 and will still be left with an Octavia with the DQ200, so we don't want to take more risks.
• Flex fuel. No, no, that does not mean ethanol. That means we are unable to decide on a fuel type. BEVs are out of the picture, and until recently I thought we were considering only petrols. But suddenly some diesels have entered the picture. I'm not sure that's a good idea, but my father seems okay with them.
• Should drive well. Not talking track-worthy levels, but my parents' daily drives have been 170+ hp sedans, this should not be much of a downgrade.
• Automatic gearbox. Won't budge about that.

Here is what we have considered and/or test driven until now, in no particular order:

Toyota Hycross:

Test variant: Toyota INNOVA HYCROSS 'ZX(O)', hybrid

Positives:

• Fuel economy
• Drives well
• Very well-equipped on paper
• Toyota ownership experience and loyalty benefits

Negatives:

• Rear seat comfort underwhelming for the size. Thigh support as bad as Fortuner, couldn't feel my bottom after a road trip in a friend's car and I would have to amputate my feet to use the ottomans.
• Third row is not really needed anymore. May be used occasionally at best, and adds unnecessary length.
• Some missing features eg. manual passenger seat will not be appreciated.
• Emergency lane keeping a little too intrusive (but TSS suite can be dropped as an independent option).
• Waiting period

Hyundai Tucson:

Test variant: Hyundai TUCSON 'Signature', 2L Diesel 4WD

Positives:

• Screams premium, inside out
• Has every feature one could ask for, even the little things
• The latest in tech and safety. Hyundai SmartSense ADAS suite tuned well
• Comfortable ride
• Diesel drives well. Good handling and takes corners remarkably well for an SUV

Negatives:

• Petrol not available for test drive and reviews claim mediocre performance
• Both engines quite thirsty. Diesel, which is less so, might not be the best idea in 2023.
• It's a CKD. Will Hyundai's service network live up to its name?
• "There is no way we are getting a Hyundai" - sister, c. yesterday

That actually completes our shortlist.

Here are some other options we have considered, and some of them were driven late last year, although they're quite a bit smaller than what we're looking for. This was more a fun activity for me during a long vacation than a serious hunt for our next car.

• The Grand Vitara test-drive was a nice experience in quite an impressive car. Looks larger than direct rivals. The onboard tech was modern. But the interiors were plasticky, rear seat was dark and the boot too small. Lastly, my mum and sister did not want a Maruti.
• Not test-driven the Mahindra XUV700 yet, but it is interesting to consider. Latest in tech and safety. Interiors appear well-designed. Same length issue as Hycross and we would get the five-seater so extra length would be even harder to justify. My pet peeve is the lap-belt in the rear centre (which I hope changes after Australian exports begin on Thursday). And most importantly 3 out of 4 members will just not have a Mahindra.
• "New" Fortuner has been in discussion for years. Not test-driven but have experienced it on multiple occasions. Way over budget with no significant advantage that helps our use case. Suspension still firm and rear seat average. Due for an update within a couple of years. Way too large.
• Škoda Kodiaq has DSG. Would mean more Škoda service. Would be stuck with 3 VAGs. Expensive, and third row is unnecessary.
• Tata Harrier: Niggles hard to ignore. Problematic local service network. Badge. Can't help but wonder how bad exactly ODB64 crashworthiness will turn out.
• Jeep Meridian: word of mouth suggests bad service experience with local Jeep ASC. Diesel only. Third row not required. Reviews say not very comfortable or refined which is not what we want.
• Volkswagen Tiguan: DSG. Old. Classy, but somewhat bland. Due for an update soon. Would be stuck with 3 VAGs.

In short, what I think we are looking for is something that can best mimic what an RAV4, CR-V or CX-30 would offer.

I understand the requirements are quite vague and I probably haven't supplied enough information for members to help with. What I would appreciate most is help with the subjective part based on experience, i.e., which of the requirements are worth compromising on? I was also wondering if there are any options we've simply forgotten about.

Here's what GTO had to say about the matter:

Your best bet is the Innova Hycross. It's big, spacious, fuel-efficient, has sorted road manners and is lovely to drive for an MPV. The waiting period can be made tolerable if you hold the Fortuner / BMW for a little more time.

Second choice = either the Tucson or the Ioniq 5. Suggesting the Ioniq 5 since you said you are open to stretching the budget if it's worth it… trust me, it is. Take your family for a nice TD of the Ioniq 5 and you'll be a convert. It's a "WOW" car, the best EV on sale in India, has enough range for highway trips and will nicely complete your garage.

Also, take a long spin of the XUV700 Petrol AT & Diesel AT.

Here's what BHPian Auto spawn had to say about the matter:

Unless you’ve pre-booked the Hycross and you’re in the line, it’ll be difficult to get your hands on one for up to a year!

Looks like the Tucson will fit all your requirements. It’s premium and has all the must-have modern features including ADAS. The performance of the diesel is good too. They’re even offering some attractively priced maintenance packages.

Since you’re not sure about going ahead with diesel, how about going the pre-owned route with a lovely Lexus, say maybe the NX 300h?

Here's what BHPian bijims had to say about the matter:

All your requirements are best fulfilled with the Tucson, it's a premium car with an attractive exterior and premium interior, the car is loaded with all the features you could ask for and comes with an excellent engine and gearbox combo in the diesel guise. The only issue that may bother you is the "not-so-premium nameplate", but if you can live with that, you can get a car that fulfils most of your needs around your budget.

The Signature 2L 4WD AT Diesel is the top-of-the-line model and has all the bells and whistles along with 4WD as well, you couldn't go wrong with it.

Else, if you are going for the Hycross, be reminded that Maruti will soon be launching its twin the Engage, so considering the high wait times for the Hycross Hybrid, you may consider getting a booking of the Engage as well once it launches in a month or so, but then it will still pose nameplate issues as it is a Maruti.

Another option worth considering is the MG Gloster but it's an MG, a Chinese car.

Considering your requirements, you could also go for a used German car as a potential replacement for your 3-series, Germans tend to depreciate quite quickly, so you may be able to get good examples of hardly 3–4-year-old Audis, BMWs, Mercedes etc. in your budget.

Hope it helps!

Here's what BHPian yedukrishnan199 had to say about the matter:

I find your situation relatable to that of my cousin, who has an Innova Crysta and a few luxury Germans in his garage, after feeling the need for a new car, I insisted he try out the XUV700 AX7 AWD Luxury Pack which costs around 35 lakhs, Being a Mahindra, he was very reluctant at first, but once he had a couple of test drives, he was impressed and bought the car home in a weeks' time thanks to a few cancellations, the dealer could arrange it in quite short notice, now for quite a few of his drives, he takes out the XUV700, the features, look and size are definitely worth the price and he feels the money was well spent, so I would definitely recommend the XUV700 as a car worth considering.

Now, on the Hycross, the same cousin, bought a Hycross too, this year as a replacement for his Innova and it's definitely more comfortable and much more frugal due to the Hybrid system, it's definitely a car worth considering if you love the rock-solid reliability that Toyota offers.

The Tucson is from a different league, and if you really want to go premium, nothing can match the finesse offered by the Tucson, which is truly an international model.

Now, if you are looking at EVs, the Ioniq 5 is perhaps the only EV, I would recommend in the current scenario, as regards the perfect match of price, range and practicality.

So, to conclude, if you love the Toyota brand and the reliability and mileage offered by the Hycrooss, it's definitely worth it, else if you are willing to go for a Hyundai, the Tucson and Ioniq 5 are international models worth considering, else if you look for a VFM car that can do it all, the XUV700 would be a good pick.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

The car needs to be an SUV since I already have a sedan. I live in Delhi NCR (specifically Gurgaon), and you know that Gurgoan is known for its waterlogged and pothole laden roads.

BHPian thaithdriver recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

I am reaching out to you guys for your expert opinions. To get the basics out of the way first, I don't need a car right now. I own a Honda City Petrol that has been serving me well for the past 3 years. I drive about 350-500Kms monthly or about ~5K-6K Kms annually. As another BHPian put it, and I couldn't do more justice, this is more of a mid-life crisis solver. The urge to buy a new toy. I am doing well financially; I have a stable job with regular income and no EMIs and with that comes an itch to get a new horse.

I have decided that I have 30 lakhs to spend on a car (all inclusive). Here are my requirements.

• Needs to be an SUV since I already have a sedan. I live in Delhi NCR (specifically Gurgaon), and you know that Gurgoan is known for its waterlogged and pothole laden roads. Also, I sometimes travel to Himachal (no hardcore offroading requirement) and need decent ground clearance for that

• Great ride quality and driving dynamics. I don't want something like a MG Hector that is known for its floaty ride on highways since I occasionally do smack that tarmac

• Relatively plush interiors? Honestly, the inception of the idea behind buying a new toy is also to look at those sexy interiors

• Needs to be a somewhat efficient fuel guzzler, I don't want to think twice about going on a 500KM long roadtrip

• Something I am able to keep for 4/5 years at least. I take my decisions after deliberation and stick with them. I don't change cars very often

• If pre-owned then a fairly new and reliable pre-owned. I couldn't get a Fortuner that had been driven less than 80k honestly. Every decently maintained Fortuner/ Endeavour I tried was driven more than 70k KMs

Here is where my conundrums begin. My requirements took me to both new as well as pre-owned cars (luxury) aplenty. In terms of choosing cars by fuel type, my priority list looks like this, but I am pliable and open to suggestions.

• Petrol - Open to buying but not 100% sold since low FE and linear output response. Quite a few SUVs struggle overtaking on highways too.

• HEV/BEV - Open to buying but not 100% sold since my running doesn't justify the premium. Though I love the MG ZS EV motor.

• Diesel BS6 - No go but if BHPians tell me this is making sense. I am open to change my mind.

• Diesel BS4 (pre-owned) - Mostly a no go

I did also come across pre-owned listings of entry level VAG cars X1/ GLA that could be had for as low as 20L. I do want to buy a "fairly" new car that is made post 2020 and has less than 40K on the ODO. I am somewhat into the snob value of a badge and would love to get my hands dirty with one. However, I do understand that there are no cheap/ budget German cars, and I will have to ensure upkeep of those cars through FNGs, sometimes at high costs. I do want to preface that I will buy these through a reputed dealer such as Spinny Max that will provide a comprehensive 2-month warranty on the car. So, if there are any upfront niggles or replacements required those can be done directly from VAG dealerships at zero costs to me directly.

In summary, I have a couple of questions and want to understand a few things:

• Should I buy a pre-owned German SUV or a new car? Given, I am in it for the snob value too and would love to own a badge but at the same time want to balance the cost of ownership tradeoff. I am relatively stable financially but I am not someone who earns >50lakh+ a year

• Perhaps the most important question basis which I will get a lot of clarity. Would the costs of maintaining pre-owned German SUVs through FNGs be significantly higher than say a Toyota Hycross via official dealerships? I have never got any of my cars worked upon outside of official dealerships. Hence, I am quite used to paying 20k for a regular service and sometimes a couple of ten Ks for unanticipated breakdown. What I want to understand is, how much higher will a similar breakdown cost me for a VAG through FNGs? Ideally if I can get my Toyota tail light fixed via Toyota dealership at 20k vs. A BMW X1 tail light fixed via FNG in 25k then it is no problem for me to own a badge.

Ideally, if we could fill a table like the attached (Screenshot attached), that would be really helpful. I know putting a number to breakdown costs is almost impossible but an avg. number that you've experienced in your ownership could help. I know the 1-1.5% maintenance number that GTO posted but I am not sure about that number's definition. Does it only include breakdown costs? or breakdown + scheduled maintenance? Assuming I sort niggles with Spinny comprehensive warranty, is that number still valid?

If costs permit, do entry level badge SUVs make sense over higher end Mahindra's or Toyota's? I know that GLAs are cramped on space with beautiful interiors while X1s are ordinary on interiors. A MG Astor's cabin is sexier to look at compared to X1.

So in short, do entry level VAGs put the current gen domestic SUVs in dust either mechanically, electronically, or otherwise?

If you had 30 lakhs to spend within my car constraints/ requirements, what car would you buy? give me your top 2/3 so I can take a frequency run and go from there.

Here's what BHPian vattyboy had to say on the matter:

1. I suggest you, buy the pre-owned German cars directly from a used car channel of the brand. Like Mercedes-Benz Certified, Audi Approved Plus or BMW Certified. You can check their inventory directly on their website.

They give 6 to 12 months warranty on the cars which gives Peace of Mind.

2. Costs will be higher even from FNG's-

The cost of a new headlight or taillight of Merc or BMW is above 1 lakh. So in this case getting this repaired by FNGs will only save you on the labour amount.

Regular services like oil, oil filter, and air filters from FNG will cost around 20k in comparison to 50k from ASS. Other items like brake pads and brake discs can be changed to aftermarket companies and will cost around 60-70k in comparison to 1.10 lac from ASS.

3. Depends upon What you want from a car.

X1 and GLA will offer badge value and excellent driving dynamics which no other car can match but lack size, and interior space.

4. What car I will Buy in 30 lakhs-

I will increase my budget a little bit and look for a pre-owned 2018-19 Mercedes GLC/X3, there are plenty of examples in a 34-36 lakhs bracket.

If I want a new car then I will buy a Hyundai Tucson, It is selling at a 2 lakhs discount currently for MY23 models.

Since you have a Reliable Honda in your garage then I think this time you can get your hands on Pre-owned German Cars.

Pre-owned German cars are a hit or a miss. Check carefully before buying that's why I suggested you Merc Certified or Audi Approved plus, buying a car from them increases the probability of getting a good car.

If you find a good car then you will have a smile on your face every time you drive it and if not then game over.

Here's what BHPian Chrome6Boy had to say on the matter:

Since you already have a dependable car with a big boot for highway drives, take a look at new EVs.

While they may not have badges to impress other people, they will simply blow you away in terms of performance, sometimes even matching cars two segments above them.

The BYD Atto 3 and the MG ZS EV are around your price range. If you have access to a 15A plug at home / work this will put a big smile on your face. It is cheap to run, cheap to service and really fun to drive. Both these cars have good tech, decent interiors and powerful motors. Take a test drive and see for yourself.

Here's what BHPian Shreyans_Jain had to say on the matter:

Pre owned route isn’t the best idea for us Delhi NCR people. Diesel options will be BS4, which means major usability issues in winter. Petrol options will not the E20 compliant, which is its own can of worms. Better to buy new.

You say you are well settled and don’t have liabilities, which is a great position to be in. You can get yourself a nice new ride, or you can instead make some big investments which well and truly set you up for the future. That’s your call.

Since what you are looking for is a toy, an NCR compatible toy, may I suggest you consider the Jimny. Nothing quite like getting bitten by the 4x4 bug, and Gurgaon has a thriving off roading scene with active communities and regular events.

Here's what BHPian ike had to say on the matter:

With a 30 lac budget I'd get the Harrier/Safari or an XUV700 (I did get a Harrier in mid 2023). 30 lacs is really good budget and cars in this bracket get all the features that were aspirational/available only in high end luxury cars a few years back.

Unless you are looking for snob value(which I understand you are), there's really no need to go preowned with this budget. It seems to me that you are still trying to define what your use case is for the new car. Think long and hard as to whether you need an old German car that has the potential to be a white elephant unless still under warranty. But again the heart wants what it wants, maybe yours hasn't communicated clearly yet. And perhaps that's why they call it midlife crisis!

Here's what BHPian FAIAAA had to say on the matter:

Hi, you seek driving dynamics, feature set, relatively low maintenance, good FE.

Based on my past ownership experience of Germans (bought new)

1. There is a big difference in materials, quality of entry level German cars vs their mid and top segment offerings ( compare 3 vs 5 series etc).

2. For 30 lacs and recent model years, you will have to consider entry level german cars. For next segment, you will have to look at 5-6 year old options. 1. Won't suggest buying a pre owned German which is 5-7 years old and out of warranty 2. Even if you do, you need to compromise on feature set. ( my current Verna is plusher / more feature rich than my (then) 2015 E Class and 2017 3 series. The latter especially was a great driving machine but by no means, luxurious)

For 30 lacs, I would suggest you look at

Mahindra - Top end XUV700, Scorpio N

They will meet most of your requirements but will have niggles and petrols won't have great FE ( by the way, most of us spend more on buying /selling our cars than fuel)

If you wish a relatively niggle free experience, then consider the Korean crossover twins ( Creta, Seltos - better FE compared to the Mahindras) or maybe stretch to a petrol Tucson.As GTO says, 25-35 lacs gets you all the car you need and then some more.

Read BHPian comments for more insights and information.

Brands like Toyota are not usually known for such tactics but the latest Innova Hycross crossing (no pun intended) 1.5 years of waiting is unbelievable.

BHPian Bit recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Modern solutions come with modern problems!

Gone are the days when you could just walk into a showroom with a bag full of money and walk out with your shiny car. A waiting of up to 3-6 months has become a norm with some models even touching an unprecedented 1-2 years (looking at you Mahindra/Toyota).

This brings an interesting question: What actually is driving such a huge waiting period in modern times? The common sense comes with the reasonings:

• Demand and Supply: There are just too many of us car buyers and companies simply do not have the manufacturing capacity to deliver them. Is everyone rushing to buy a car like there's no tomorrow?
• Chip Shortage: This mostly affects the higher-end variants. Post-COVID, there was chaos in sourcing electronic components used in higher variants and all manufacturers were crying about chip shortage. Does it still prevail?
• Plain Jane Marketing: The companies just want to "show off" the waiting period to keep their product warm.
• Something else…

However, I have a problem gulping the reasonings.

If it's about demand/components shortage, how is one OEM (MG for example) able to provide electronics-rich features readily when other OEMs (Mahindra) can not?

...And then we have brands like Toyota that are not usually known for such tactics but the latest Hycross crossing (no pun intended) 1.5 years of waiting is unbelievable.

And finally, we have an exceptional example in the form of THAR RWD Diesel. This car defies all reasoning about the waiting period. It definitely can not be attributed to the components shortage considering Mahindra is able to deliver the 4x4 in a relatively much shorter time. In an ideal world, just removing some component (4x4 gear) should result in REDUCING the waiting period instead of increasing it by 1 year!

And if it all is just a marketing ploy, isn't this a visible business loss? If I had the capacity to supply, artificially restricting it and selling less volume wouldn't make any business sense to me. Gaining some warm word of mouth at the loss of actual sales in units and money doesn't make financial sense to me… unless I'm missing something.

BHPians please shed light on this.

Here's what BHPian Nithesh_M had to say about the matter:

Both import chips from Chinese vendors (some local manufacturers have proxy vendors who do it for them so they can claim it's all manufactured here).

While the chip shortage is or was real, brands like MG who are based out of China probably have better resources in obtaining chips from their Chinese vendors vs say local brands that have to clear the Chinese export redtapes. On the other hand, Korean and Japanese brands have better vendor support from Indian suppliers for interior trim parts than European or even local manufacturers. It's all about setting up good quality vendors for the long term.

It's not that simple. There either needs to be a separate assembly line for only the RWD variant or as I suspect there is an assembly line common for both the RWD and AWD variants. That means for every 100 AWD they assemble they probably can get 5 to 10 RWD variants manufactured. Demand vs supply basically.

If you had the ability to sell 100 kg worth of products for a fixed price of Rs 200 per kg, would you sell it all at once immediately?

Or would you sell it in small batches of say 10kg each at Rs 210 per kg in the first year and keep the rest for more batches with price per kg hiked up by 30% every year? At the end of the 10th year, you'd sit on more money than if you had made by selling it in one go. That's a minimum 300% profit with reduced overheads and other expenses cut down due to low volumes.

Here's what BHPian Dr.AD had to say about the matter:

I think this is the main reason. It is the age-old truth, and demand and supply drives the automobile industry even more so than many other industries.

For example, many manufacturers with a production capacity of 4000 to 5000 cars per month are getting bookings worth 10 months of production right at the launch. And over the next 1-2 years, the bookings only continue to increase. This instantly leads to waiting periods of 10 months to a year or even more.

Further, car manufacturing being so capital intensive, it is not possible to ramp up production at will. It would be a logistical challenge to ramp up or ramp down production based on demand cycles. The whole supply chain is a very complex business operation. Therefore, many OEMs play it safe in planning the production capacity to begin with. It is much better to have more demand than you can cater to, than having excessive production capacity and unsold inventory. That latter is a financial disaster. So they play it safe and build production capacity which they are almost sure to sell. And then when the demand is much higher, it is not feasible to increase production capacity quickly. If the OEM sees consistently high demand for more than a year or so, they do try to add more production capacity. But it does take time to build that. So overall, waiting periods are a result of this.

I believe this simple age-old demand-supply logic, with the fact that the production of automobiles is not something the OEMs can ramp up or down at will, is the main cause of waiting periods for the popular models.

Chip shortage etc is secondary. In fact, coming to late 2023 and now early 2024, except for the high-end graphics cards and AI chips, the chip shortage for many other chips is more or less resolved. I do not believe that is an issue for automobile manufacturers in India any more.

Here's what BHPian vattyboy had to say about the matter:

It's option 3 - "Plain Jane Marketing".

In Surat, I have been in the market for the last 2 months in search of a new car and in every brand the car was available in stock like Xuv700, Creta, Elevate and Taigun if I agreed to buy in their conditions like their insurance rate, some amount of accessories and extended warranty.

All this is done to avoid giving discounts to the customers and to increase the profit margin of their dealers.

Companies are doing this to show that their cars are successful.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

The rats managed to tear the AC filter into two parts, split the Plastic Mesh Jali in half, and clog the AC compressor.

BHPian woodstock3001 recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

8700 km update:

Alright, the saga continues. Just a week before my planned trip to Manali, started noticing loud noise in the cabin while fan at high speed. At low fan speed, there was no such noise.

Worried about potential issues, I promptly took my Hycross to the service center.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified – it turned out to be a rat's playground. They managed to tear the AC filter into two parts, split the Plastic Mesh Jali in half, and clog the AC compressor. Fortunately, there was no wire cut. According to Galaxy Toyota, the recommended actions are:

• Replace the AC filter.
• Replace the Plastic Jali with a Steel Jali to prevent future damage.
• Apply rat repellent spray in the engine compartment.

The estimated expense is around 15k. If I opt out of installing the Steel Jali, the cost would be approximately 6k. (15k includes labor charge of 7k just for installing Steel Jali). I've requested a discount and will share the final amount later.

I've given them the green light for the installation of the steel mesh Jali, and the car is expected to be back in 2-3 days. It's disheartening, but essential maintenance is a priority.

Just last week, the ORVM indicator got damaged, so I'll be replacing that as well. Though 2nd service is due in another 1500 KMS, it will be addressed post the Manali excursion.

Stay tuned for the next update with the final bill amount once the car returns.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.

The handling and stability are even better with a full load there is no nervousness or anything.

BHPian manofinfinity recently shared this with other enthusiasts.

Recently did a 500 km round road trip with 7 adults and luggage and I would like to share a few observations:

Pros:

1. There is no shortage of power and pickup, yes the pickup and power delivery is a little slow and linear but you never feel like it’s not enough.
2. While driving above 80 I changed the mode from eco to normal and I instantly felt the difference in overall responsiveness while accelerating, normal and eco modes are all I used, I never once felt the need to use power mode.
3. The handling and stability are even better with a full load there is no nervousness or anything.
4. I used Cruise control extensively and it works like a charm and automatically charges the battery through regen braking it detects slopes and is actually very smart and it works differently along with the hybrid system as opposed to other normal cruise control.
5. The more I do these long trips the more I feel in love with what it is capable of, I don’t know if it’s just the perception of Toyota or if I am biased towards but it feels like a beast and has that indestructible feel somehow that we associate with Toyota BOF platform cars.

Cons:

1. Is it just me or does anyone feel vibrations from the accelerator pedal during hard acceleration or when the petrol engine is running at higher RPMs, is it a normal behaviour of CVT or what i am a bit confused.
2. The wind noise and aerodynamics are such that you can’t keep the window open above 90 otherwise wind noise becomes irritable, it is even worse with half the window open.

Check out BHPian comments for more insights and information.