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Old 2nd October 2007, 13:21   #61
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Originally Posted by Sahil View Post
How am i suppose to unlock the phone now since they all will come with the new firmware !?
Sure they will come with the new firmware, at least after the current stocks in retail stores are exhausted. But, why do you think the new firmware will never be cracked? It has been just some 3 days since the new one came out, give the "dev team" some time...
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Old 2nd October 2007, 13:29   #62
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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
Sure they will come with the new firmware, at least after the current stocks in retail stores are exhausted. But, why do you think the new firmware will never be cracked? It has been just some 3 days since the new one came out, give the "dev team" some time...
Yup and soon Apple with come up with newer firmware and you will have to wait again for your development team. You dont really want to end up with an on-and-off-and-on phone, do you?

One of these days they will build in automatic updates into the latest firmware, and then you wont really have a choice.

Apple's marketing strategy is to partner with carriers and not to drive sales through their own distribution network alone. As long as this strategy is in place you will have carrier-specific firmware, and carriers will continue to demand that the phone is locked to their network because they are subsidising the cost of the hardware. I know we would demand that if we were to partner with Apple.
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Old 2nd October 2007, 22:59   #63
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Yup and soon Apple with come up with newer firmware and you will have to wait again for your development team. You dont really want to end up with an on-and-off-and-on phone, do you?
If you are among the idiots who did not heed official warnings from Apple, and the rest of the internet, you sure deserve a brick. And Apple played dirty. It was trivial for them to make sure that the unlocked phones did not get bricked(I know, and don't ask how?). They choose to brick them, and I hate them for that, and other reasons as well. While I have been developing software on the MAC for some time, I have never purchased any Apple stuff till now for personal use. ie, until I saw the iPhone. Believe me, I could not resist. And now that I have let go off the no MAC purchases funda, I am getting an Apple TV (Apple - Apple TV at 399$ )as well.

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One of these days they will build in automatic updates into the latest firmware, and then you wont really have a choice.
From a source similar to where you got that info from, Airtel is getting the phones here in Jan. Bye Bye to HTC Touch.

Ok, kidding. I did not really make that up. Yesterday night a friend from the Ad Industry called up. And he wanted one right away. Reason? He says come January every cabbie will have it, might as well get it when it is still cool!

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Apple's marketing strategy is to partner with carriers and not to drive sales through their own distribution network alone. As long as this strategy is in place you will have carrier-specific firmware, and carriers will continue to demand that the phone is locked to their network because they are subsidising the cost of the hardware. I know we would demand that if we were to partner with Apple.
Apple iPhone / AT&T collusion under fire in Congress - future of network locked/bundled phones in question


And maybe this explains why some folks hate the iPhone?
Apple iPhone is more on Usability, for the Class and not Mass vinodvv aka vcube

Last edited by tadukuttan : 2nd October 2007 at 23:12.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 11:50   #64
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Had a demo of the iPhone yesterday. Of course it is damn cool. But its also very very user friendly....the controls are pretty intuitive. The phone was much slimmer than what I expected, and the display quality was to die for.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 13:39   #65
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Had a demo of the iPhone yesterday. Of course it is damn cool. But its also very very user friendly....the controls are pretty intuitive. The phone was much slimmer than what I expected, and the display quality was to die for.
Yes it's a great product so what's the outcome ? will you buy one ?
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Old 3rd October 2007, 14:14   #66
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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
And Apple played dirty. It was trivial for them to make sure that the unlocked phones did not get bricked(I know, and don't ask how?). They choose to brick them, and I hate them for that, and other reasons as well.
Was it, really? When you get an iPhone cheaper from an operator than from Apple, it means that the operator is subsidising the phone.

In return, they would expect the phone to be used exclusively on their network - why would they spend money to drive up revenues for other operators?

I dont think Apple is playing "dirty". I just think they have the wrong distribution strategy - if you decide to do business with the devil, you cant complain about evil!

The Airtel Phones you are about to get will be locked, too. So will the iPhones on our network here. And I'm sure my colleagues in AirTel will work hard to ensure that the phone stays locked till such time as they have recovered their investment.

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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
And maybe this explains why some folks hate the iPhone?
Apple iPhone is more on Usability, for the Class and not Mass « vinodvv aka vcube
I dont quite understand what the author is trying to convey there. At the end of the day, the iPhone is a cool device with a convenient interface for basic usage. Try and respond to an email on that device and you will understand that business usability is different from the ability to play songs or watch cool videos.

For the cool crowd, the iPhone may be the in-thing - I dont doubt that. For business users, it falls flat on its well groomed face.

And for me, it makes no sense at all without 3G. Or push mail. Or stereo bluetooth when I want to listen to music. Or a keypad for me to type out responses to business emails.

Last edited by Steeroid : 3rd October 2007 at 14:27.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 23:23   #67
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Was it, really? When you get an iPhone cheaper from an operator than from Apple, it means that the operator is subsidising the phone.
Apple phones are available at Apple retail outlets, and at the online Apple store. Mine came from an Apple retail outlet. And irrespective of where they come from, they all are locked to AT&T. There is no price difference. And I don't think the hardware is subsidized. On what basis are you saying that the hardware price is subsidized?
Cellphones: iPhone Only Costs $250 to Make; Rest of Price is Fanboy Tax - Gizmodo

Unfortunately for telecom companies, and fortunately for the rest of us, this strategy has triggered a good deal of debate. The US congress had "iPhone hearings", and I would expect an EU anti trust case soon after the launch in Europe.

Further reading for phone users -
SPICY IP: iPhone and Antitrust Implications: US vs EU vs India


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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Try and respond to an email on that device and you will understand that business usability is different from the ability to play songs or watch cool videos.
My suspicion now, you are commenting on this whole issue without ever trying the iPhone. Have you used the iPhone? Or is this based on reviews you read from the net?

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For the cool crowd, the iPhone may be the in-thing - I dont doubt that. For business users, it falls flat on its well groomed face.
I would agree with you if you tell me the iPhone fell flat in front of you, but *ALL* business users? As I said earlier, give it a shot first, and then we will see.

I have a lot of friends in the (silicon) valley, and I know many companies which have given official iPhones to their employees. I am yet to hear outright negative remarks from business users in the US, even from die hard blackberry fans?

Or, were you talking about business users in the gulf not liking the iPhone, especially since they have never seen it or used it?

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And for me, it makes no sense at all without 3G.
Valid point, explained in detail here - AnandTech: No 3G on the iPhone, but why? A Battery Life Analysis


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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Or push mail.
You mean push email the blackberry way? With an additional plan from the Telco for reading email? Airtel calls it Mobile office or something, like 1000 bucks a month extra for reading email?

Or IMAP or POP3, the way you check mail from a PC? That the iPhone already supports, without the need for an additional "plan" from the Telecom company? It also has customized clients for Gmail, Yahoo, and America Online, and that feature is pretty valuable to me. Of course, I save the additional money I need to be on the blackberry plan as well.

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Or stereo bluetooth when I want to listen to music.
The rumor is that it does not have streaming music because of Music Industry restrictions. - iPhone 1.1.1 "bug" unleashes music over Bluetooth - Engadget

If they really wanted A2DP, that is a software only fix. Currently, blue tooth works only for Speaker phones(unofficially it works for music as well), like the Jabra car speaker-phone I have. If the IPod/Zune/iPhone guys work out ways with the music industry for allowing streaming audio, I am sure it will come down as an update.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 23:59   #68
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Tadu
I thought u were a diesel head and an excellent driver with pete'd mind but u seem to be an apple freak too.
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:10   #69
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Kp, ever heard of "Looks are deceptive"? Tadu is a wonderful example. Don't let his looks or silence (on the forum) fool you. He may not come out as one of those whose very outspoken but every word he puts weighs in when you analyze it (in real life too). He is not just an apple freak, there are lot of things he is interested in but his posts don't quite relate to the same. He was an avid biker & loves gizmos. Though he seems to be getting a little forgetful these days. I mean, when was the last time he said lets go for a late night drive for coffee? .

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 4th October 2007 at 00:12.
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:11   #70
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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
My suspicion now, you are commenting on this whole issue without ever trying the iPhone. Have you used the iPhone? Or is this based on reviews you read from the net?

Or, were you talking about business users in the gulf not liking the iPhone, especially since they have never seen it or used it?
All I can say is that you assume too much, Tadu.

As for antitrust against carriers for locking the phone to their network (and yes there is a subsidy) we've heard this before. Apple isnt the first phone manufacturer, you know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
You mean push email the blackberry way? With an additional plan from the Telco for reading email? Airtel calls it Mobile office or something, like 1000 bucks a month extra for reading email?

Or IMAP or POP3, the way you check mail from a PC? That the iPhone already supports, without the need for an additional "plan" from the Telecom company? It also has customized clients for Gmail, Yahoo, and America Online, and that feature is pretty valuable to me. Of course, I save the additional money I need to be on the blackberry plan as well.
Blackberry isnt the only means of getting push-email. It used to be, but now its simply the costliest.

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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
Valid point, explained in detail here - AnandTech: No 3G on the iPhone, but why? A Battery Life Analysis
And 3G is not a battery-drainer for others, I guess? That comparison is also between Apple's Edge and a Samsung's 3G. Hardly an apple-to-apple comparison, I would say.

For the record there are enough devices out in the market that feature 3G, WiFi and a host of other connections including HSDPA and GPS. I guess they're all wasting their time and havent figured out (after all these years of making phones) what Apple has.

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Originally Posted by tadukuttan View Post
The rumor is that it does not have streaming music because of Music Industry restrictions. - iPhone 1.1.1 "bug" unleashes music over Bluetooth - Engadget~
Aww cmon - thats really clutching at straws, isnt it? All other mobilephone makers stream music over bluetooth without any Music Industry restriction but Apple, the guys who fought Digital Rights Management and took the music industry head-on are worried that somebody might sniff their bluetooth signals and start recording songs !!! If thats the case I should be worried about people evesdropping on my phonecalls over the iPhone!

And BTW please look up the meaning of 'Streaming Media' - sending music to your stereo bluetooth headset isnt 'streaming'.

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If they really wanted A2DP, that is a software only fix.
Tell me about it - I badly want A2DP for my Mac Mini. Where do I find a software fix?
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:19   #71
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I have played around with the Iphone quite a bit, and frankly speaking though the graphics and touchscreen is cool, its not much from a feature point of view.
Do you know that the WLAN(Wireless) can be used for a limited times in a month. So if your home router is acting up and you have frequent disconnections your WLAN access will go.
The phone is not that bad, but the ToS is.

As for locking, I am finding the above discussion hilarous.
Cmon, is iphone the only locked phone?
All phones for carriers such as Verizon etc., which are subsidized are locked.
for example you get a high end moto razr for 50$, but you can't just cancel your plan after a month and walk off with a phone which costs 200$ in the market.

Iphone has a problem. Its not available in the open market even for people who want to pay.
My guess, if iphone was available in unlocked retail for it would cost as much as a N95(slightly more actually), which is like the 550$ pricepoint,
Currently apple sells iphone for 399$, but you are stuck with AT&T.

When you buy anything from AT&T you have to accept the fact that they will try to make you unhappy. Its their corporate philosophy.
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Old 4th October 2007, 11:13   #72
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All phones for carriers such as Verizon etc., which are subsidized are locked.
Two differences between the iPhone and other locked phones:

1. The verizon locked phones are available through other carriers also. iPhone = Only AT&T.

2. Verizon etc. locked phones are available in the open market albeit at a higher price. iPhone isnt...atleast officially?
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Old 4th October 2007, 11:31   #73
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1. The verizon locked phones are available through other carriers also. iPhone = Only AT&T.
Yup. Thats exclusivity - this is Apple strategy for every target market. They will tie up with one operator for exclusivity. Obviously it will be the operator that Apple thinks will push the product more aggressively, whether it is through special tariffs, subsidies, bundled packages, etc. There is enough hype over the product for Operators to fall over themselves for this exclusivity.

Hence the need for them to protect the operator from hacks on the network lock. It would be very interesting to see how much the iPhone would cost without operator support - i.e., as a standalone package.
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Old 4th October 2007, 18:23   #74
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Can we block any user in Iphone)
As of now none of the phone gives us this facility i guess..does iphone have it??
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Old 4th October 2007, 22:25   #75
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Sorry to dissapoint iphone fans, but after using the gizmo for 30 mts i really think its too much hype and would go with steer's verdict For the cool crowd, the iPhone may be the in-thing - I dont doubt that. For business users, it falls flat on its well groomed face.

Again novelty value especially for new users (apple products), since apple always has a very different and interesting way of presentation. egs safari vs IE or Mozilla.

but hell yeah i envied the person who owned the piece and was cursing myslef for not picking an iphone
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