[namit]

Originally Posted by amalji

The higher numbers for Fiat is mainly due to the 1 lakh loyalty bonus offer for every car that's exchanged for a Fiat.

Arent other manufacturers giving away goood incentives to customers?
Vw, toyota and even honda all are so wats the big deal here

And trust me noone invests 8 lacs on a 9 lacs prod just for the 1 lac discount

I agree fiat is curving up and jeep will get more indians to understand who makes the real ferraris and why

If we can go gaga over datsun just for nothing and relish etios just bcoz of the toyota stamp the why not fiat

And its actually the lesser aware indian public who is the looser by not bothering to drive the fiats and fords untill u r someone just concerned about point a to point transportation

Ford has picked up in india so shall fiat ...

[pamiboy]

Is the SUV called Force One still selling? If yes what are it's sales numbers? I've never seen one on the road so far.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by namit

Arent other manufacturers giving away goood incentives to customers?
Vw, toyota and even honda all are so wats the big deal here

I was just giving my opinion. Discounts of 1 lakh to 2 lakh comes rarely and I still believe that as the reason behind the sales spike. If that's not the case, good for Fiat. We'll see how it goes once the discounts are off.

Originally Posted by namit

If we can go gaga over datsun just for nothing and relish etios just bcoz of the toyota stamp the why not fiat

Making the Ferraris and making an economical vehicle are 2 different arts. So is the European/American heavy weight design and Japanese light weight designs. Both has its own pros and cons. For the fans of heavy weight design, they should go for Ford/Fiat/VW while the light weight fans go for Toyota/Honda/Suzuki/Nissan/Hyundai

And regarding Etios, it's an excellent package. It's combines
The space of a TATA
Comfort second only to FIAT
Dynamics comparable to Fiesta
Customer support better than the Maruti
Maintenance cost cheaper than the Mahindra ( cheapest in its class )
drivability, ergonomics and braking in a league on its own.

As GTO rightly told, the Etios is Mr. Practicality.

Originally Posted by namit

Ford has picked up in india so shall fiat ...

They are moving in the right direction by opening their own dealerships and service centers. I also hope for their revival.

[aniketi]

People still fighting on Amaze Vs Dzire. Good to see that. I guess after 6 months only we will get the exact, real picture. Till now, its Dzire which is still selling like hot cakes in the market. Now people are saying that Dzire & Swift has no waiting periods. IMO, its a plus for Maruti & for customers. People don't have to wait for the car. That will make customer happy. Generally common people don't like to wait for their car to come home. Also going forward if sales come down more, Maruti can offer discounts on both the cars which will make it more attractive than others. Competition is always good

Some people are mentioning Maruti is also expensive to maintain. I don't agree to that. We had 4 Marutis in my own family in last 20 years. We never felt so. Now currently i own a Dzire Vxi and average maintenance cost per year is less than 4 k. Now i don't think that's expensive.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by aniketi

People still fighting on Amaze Vs Dzire. Good to see that. I guess after 6 months only we will get the exact, real picture. Till now, its Dzire which is still selling like hot cakes in the market. Now people are saying that Dzire & Swift has no waiting periods. IMO, its a plus for Maruti & for customers. People don't have to wait for the car. That will make customer happy. Generally common people don't like to wait for their car to come home. Also going forward if sales come down more, Maruti can offer discounts on both the cars which will make it more attractive than others. Competition is always good

During such changing times, customer is always the winner. And I do hope, Maruti starts giving importance to space and ergonomics. Not to mention their high maintenance cost.

And no, the Dzire is not selling like hot cakes anymore. Both the Dzire as well as the Swift sales has come down by 25% and 35% respectively. And that was the maximum impact Honda could have given considering the 2 aspects.
1. It has a production limitation of 10000 cars per month.
2. Its sales and service reach is not good in the small towns.

Point 1 will be taken care of by Honda within an year. Point 2 will take time. Probably 3-4 years. So, it's going to be a gradual drop.

But in metros and cities where Honda has a presence, Maruti is going to be rolled over.

And no, it's absolutely not a plus for Maruti when the waiting period is zero. They just had to stop one shift at Manesar and send the employees for unpaid vacation. That's certainly not good news for Maruti.

Originally Posted by aniketi

Some people are mentioning Maruti is also expensive to maintain. I don't agree to that. We had 4 Marutis in my own family in last 20 years. We never felt so. Now currently i own a Dzire Vxi and average maintenance cost per year is less than 4 k. Now i don't think that's expensive.

For a petrol car, that's indeed expensive. It's expensive than a Toyota, Nissan, Mahindra, and even Ford.
For petrol engines, the difference might be just 2k per year, but for Diesels the difference can be as much as 4k per year! Check out the swift diesel ownership threads to understand more.

[hoomdo]

Originally Posted by amalji

The world market buys the likes of Toyota, Nissan, Chevrolet. Indians are still obsessed with a Maruti. There are a lots of myths with Maruti as well like low cost of maintenance when reality speaks otherwise. Having changed from Maruti to Toyota, I understand how much of an effort Toyota put into the practical and durability aspects of a car. No wonder why their 'boring' designs still sell all over the world.

Anyway the Amaze has turned the tables a bit. It has the looks and it's practical. There are still some who crib about how the interior looks. But, from the initial response to this great car, I guess better sense eventually prevails for an average Indian buyer. Waiting for the day when they boost their production capacity. It could be the start of the end for Maruti .

Maruti and higher cost of maintenance is not very convincing especially when we are comparing with Honda (its Amaze v/s Dzire ... right?). I have owned Maruti for some time and routine maintenance is absurdly low. I have had first hand experience of Honda costs in two cases (a Jazz and a City). The costs were much higher and transparency experienced at MASS (at least the place I go to) was lacking. Also, compare the costs of accidental repairs between the two and there is actually no case for Honda here. The appointment of multiple MASS has, besides extending reach and convenience, actually fostered a sense of competition within these which is lacking in players with fewer number of ASCs and it gets monopolistic. And convenience should also be equated to monetary costs. In Kolkata, even 3 years back, the Toyota dealer had one workshop in a remote south western suburbs of the city (while the north eastern township of Salt Lake accounts for a healthy ownership percentage). IMHO there are great cars (and some obviously better than Maruti) in the market from Honda, Toyota and GM but ASS and ease & cost of ownership is still an area of improvement for them compared the leader.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by pamiboy

Is the SUV called Force One still selling? If yes what are it's sales numbers? I've never seen one on the road so far.

+1 to that - big B is doing the TV ads - but where's the real car on road?

[rohanjf]

Originally Posted by pamiboy

Is the SUV called Force One still selling? If yes what are it's sales numbers? I've never seen one on the road so far.

In one of the earlier months' analysis (probably early this year), an expert (GTO I think) had mentioned that Force do not share their sales numbers with the media. I assume, they are too ashamed to share their numbers. For, I have seen one and only one Force One in Bangalore ever since it went on sale (and I drive 50 km every day, both in urban and rural areas).

[anachronix]

You have any data to quantify what you said or you are just saying...?

Originally Posted by amalji

The higher numbers for Fiat is mainly due to the 1 lakh loyalty bonus offer for every car that's exchanged for a Fiat.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by hoomdo

Maruti and higher cost of maintenance is not very convincing especially when we are comparing with Honda (its Amaze v/s Dzire ... right?).

Both Honda as well as Maruti are costly to maintain. My comparison was with the likes of Toyota, Nissan, Mahindra and even Ford. With regards to the Amaze , it's a much more practical and ergonomic design and that's the only reason why I support it. Not because Honda's maintenance cost is cheap. That said, if you run 20,000 kms per year, the amaze should be cheaper to maintain than a Swift.

Originally Posted by hoomdo

I have owned Maruti for some time and routine maintenance is absurdly low.

Don't quite agree with this. Marutis used to be cheap to maintain with their old petrol models. No longer so post Swift diesel.
70 paise to 1 rupee per km maintenance is not cheap by any stretch of imagination. ( check the swift diesel ownership threads in team-bhp ) Especially when the likes of Toyota, Nissan, Mahindra , and even Ford does it for 25 paise to 40 paise per km.

Originally Posted by hoomdo

Also, compare the costs of accidental repairs between the two and there is actually no case for Honda here.

For accidental repairs , my logic is to go for zero depreciation insurance and use it when needed. So, there won't be any difference in the amount spent from the pocket. And it's not fair to compare the repair costs of cars of different class. Amaze vs Dzire would be a good comparison. But again, it will be covered by insurance. So not much to worry about.

Originally Posted by hoomdo

The appointment of multiple MASS has, besides extending reach and convenience, actually fostered a sense of competition within these which is lacking in players with fewer number of ASCs and it gets monopolistic.

I also had this apprehension when I made my switch from Maruti to Toyota. Nippon Toyota handles dealerships and support for the entire south Kerala. But, after owning the car for close to 2 years, all such apprehensions has gone for a toss.

They never ever force a customer into needless service money spinning exercises. They adhere 100% to what Toyota has recommended. This was not the case with Maruti. Whichever service center you give the car in, the bill will almost be the same and it's damn cheap thanks mainly due to more durable components used.

And the car has banged into many a potholes in Kerala without any damage to the steering or suspensions. This was a major hassle for me when I was on Maruti.

Originally Posted by hoomdo

but ASS and ease & cost of ownership is still an area of improvement for them compared the leader.

One thing that Maruti has is the reach of service to every nook and corner of the country. But the fact is that my frequency of visits to the service center has dropped so drastically after switching from Maruti. And when I do take my car for 10000 km service, I get the car back after service in 1.5 to 2 hours. Not to mention 50% cheaper maintenance cost.

Originally Posted by anachronix

You have any data to quantify what you said or you are just saying...?

It's common sense. You give huge offers and do promotions, the sales will spike for a couple of months. Similar to the effect it had on Jazz sales when Honda aggressively dropped its pricing before the release of the new model.

[anachronix]

Never heard about the discounts that were on with the Fiat cars for all these 2 years when they were struggling to sell cars?

Please dont make your assumptions as facts and label them common sense!

Originally Posted by amalji

It's common sense. You give huge offers and do promotions, the sales will spike for a couple of months. Similar to the effect it had on Jazz sales when Honda aggressively dropped its pricing before the release of the new model.

[nmo]

Originally Posted by namit

Arent other manufacturers giving away goood incentives to customers?
Vw, toyota and even honda all are so wats the big deal here

And trust me noone invests 8 lacs on a 9 lacs prod just for the 1 lac discount

Ford has picked up in india so shall fiat ...

In case of Fiat, the other plus points apart from the cash discount are:

1) 3 Year 100,000 km Warranty, Additional 2 year extended Warranty available at reasonable cost.

2) 10,000 km Service cycle. Your car would need to need to go once a year for Service.

3) One of the lowest cost of spares in the industry. There is a separate thread on that so you could look it up if interested.

4) 185 cm Ground clearance with 16" alloys on top variants of Linea.

5) Rain sensing wipers, ACC etc.

If only they could price their Tjet / 90HP competitively and bring in 1.6L MJD on Linea...They could then knock off some nos from Verna / Vento / Rapid / City.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Never heard about the discounts that were on with the Fiat cars for all these 2 years when they were struggling to sell cars?

Please dont make your assumptions as facts and label them common sense!

As a normal user, I came to know about the 1 lakh discount on their latest model Linea only now ( via their advertisements on main news papers ) . heard about discounts for the old linea models, but never heard about 1 lakh discount on their new linea models before. And I'm sure, many others ( who read newspapers ) would have come across these discounts now.

It's indeed common sense to find such a logic when you see such promotions all of a sudden ( whether you like it or not ).

I'll quote this post again in October 2013 . we'll analyze if my common sense stands true then. :-)

[anachronix]

Its all over the newspapers for all these years, a bit surprised that you missed it for so long!

Originally Posted by amalji

As a normal user, I came to know about the 1 lakh discount on their latest model Linea only now ( via their advertisements on main news papers ) . heard about discounts for the old linea models, but never heard about 1 lakh discount on their new linea models before. And I'm sure, many others ( who read newspapers ) would have come across these discounts now.

Your post is misleading with no data and , its nothing about me liking it or not!

It's indeed common sense to find such a logic when you see such promotions all of a sudden ( whether you like it or not ).

Will wait for the Quote

I'll quote this post again in October 2013 . we'll analyze if my common sense stands true then. :-)

[amalji]

Originally Posted by nmo

2) 10,000 km Service cycle. Your car would need to need to go once a year for Service.

I guess it's the same for Maruti, Toyota, Ford, Nissan and Renault, right?

Originally Posted by nmo

3) One of the lowest cost of spares in the industry. There is a separate thread on that so you could look it up if interested.

Interesting. Could you please post the link to the thread you are referring to.
I guess it also has to do with the brands with which Linea competes with. Hyundai, VW, Skoda, and Honda are not cheap to maintain.

Originally Posted by anachronix

Its all over the newspapers for all these years, a bit surprised that you missed it for so long!

That's very surprising. If you read through the older pages of the same thread, there's another bhpian who have reported about these offers for the month of July. If Linea was selling at 1 lakh below cost price within 6 months of its ( face lift's ) release, it does surprise me.

Originally Posted by anachronix

Your post is misleading with no data and , its nothing about me liking it or not!

I'm very interested in knowing what kind of data you expect from me. Applying the same logic, I would recommend that you raise the same point to team-bhp moderators who make statements like 'the discounts seems to have worked well for the jazz' and ask for data!

Originally Posted by anachronix

Will wait for the Quote

Good. :-)