[RadiantKarma]

My two cents..

Originally Posted by sups

I liked the ride and feel of Etios better than Liva. So, if I can extend my budget by 1.5 lakhs, these are the mixed options:

1. Etios GD+SP --- 7.94L onroad (free mud flap and door mats)
2. Liva GD (only ABS, no airbag) ----- 6.38L onroad (free mud flap and door mats). Add another 30K for rear seat customization with Stanley and total goes to 6.68K.
3. Figo TDCI Titanium ----- 6.7L onroad (free mud flap and door mats)

Probably, I have a feeling that I will not go wrong with any of these. But humans are meant to be confused. And I am human only.

My big priority is back seat ride comfort. Last few days I am driven by a 2011 Swift Dzire petrol (no offence meant please) and I have started hating the bumpy back seat of Dzire. MY NEW PURCHASE SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF BUMPY UNSETTLING RIDE. Unfortunately its not possible to have such a long test drive to be sure with Figo/Liva/Etios.

Help please. Need to book by tomorrow.

Don't think you'd go wrong with any of the above rides as far as ride comfort is concerned. Even new DZire is said to have softer suspensions and vastly improved ride quality and you might want to have a relook at your decision which is based on your experience of old DZire (atrocious ride indeed!). Verito has good ride quality too as has just been pointed out. Does all this add to the confusion, eh?! But I would say one thing, if you can afford to extend the budget, go for what you like the most.

Does this mean that Figo ages too fast?

Crux of the matter IMO. One of the major reasons for the large fan-following of Japanese cars.

[MadhuG]

Originally Posted by sups

My big priority is back seat ride comfort. Last few days I am driven by a 2011 Swift Dzire petrol (no offence meant please) and I have started hating the bumpy back seat of Dzire. MY NEW PURCHASE SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF BUMPY UNSETTLING RIDE. Unfortunately its not possible to have such a long test drive to be sure with Figo/Liva/Etios.

Help please. Need to book by tomorrow.

Pl. do test drive the New Dzire. I am sure you would like the back seat ride quality. After TDing the Dzire you can take a call.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by MadhuG

Pl. do test drive the New Dzire. I am sure you would like the back seat ride quality. After TDing the Dzire you can take a call.

Dzire gives a cramped rear seat with very small windows which further increases the claustrophobic nature of the car. Interiors are good, so are the seats. But, they compromised on the fundamentals - roominess and airiness.

[MadhuG]

Originally Posted by amalji

Dzire gives a cramped rear seat with very small windows which further increases the claustrophobic nature of the car. Interiors are good, so are the seats. But, they compromised on the fundamentals - roominess and airiness.

IMHO, I feel that the new Dzire - due to its all beige interiors - and a larger rear window than the Swift, is not claustrophobic at all.
I have checked this out and you can also see the comment by GTO in his review:
http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/Maru...i-dzire-12.jpg
The ride is much much better and softer than the older Dzire.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by MadhuG

IMHO, I feel that the new Dzire - due to its all beige interiors - and a larger rear window than the Swift, is not claustrophobic at all.
I have checked this out and you can also see the comment by GTO in his review:
http://www.team-bhp.com/carpics/Maru...i-dzire-12.jpg
The ride is much much better and softer than the older Dzire.

Good to hear that. I just read the review again and spotted the statement from GTO -

"Compared to the all-black cabin of the Swift, that of the Dzire feels decidedly bright & airy. In fact, the claustrophobic feeling of the Swift isn't present at all in the Dzire. "

But, the space issue still remains, quoting GTO -
"Limited rear seat space is incomparable to the Manza, Etios, Verito et al"
so do the issue of pathetic brakes ( unless we go for the top-end, which sups is not planning to considering his budget constraints ) and the ergonomic issue on the driver seat

Quoting GTO
- "An ergonomic failure. The shin area of my leg kept hitting against the plastic panel on top of the clutch pedal. It actually got painful after a couple of kms:"

The driver seat issue, I noticed it when I checked the new Swift when it was first released. I have to say that it's one of the main reasons combined with the brakes and lack of space that made me decide against the Swift ( I already had a Swift booking ).
The only reason for the ergonomic issue, I feel is that Maruti just copied the dash design from Kizashi which is a much bigger car to start with. For Dzire, which is already gasping for space, the design was sure to add such issues. But, the feel good factor is there. Everything looks and feels very plush.

The city drivability of the Liva D-4D/Figo TDCi/Verito is unmatched as well thanks to the lack of turbo lag and hence instant throttle response. This is a sore point of the Dzire DDiS and will affect the drivability on city traffic condition

Dzire is certainly a good car. But, since sups' priority is rear seat comfort and city drivability, I don't think Dzire is a good choice.

[lamborghini]

Personally, as a user of the Fiesta which had covered 80+Kkm with various drivers - it aged superbly well! I am not sure if the Liva will age nearly as well, and I am quite positive our earlier Corolla didn't either - with interior parts coming loose, and what not!
In fact, our Fiesta has done 90+ Kkm, and still returns the same FE as she did on day 1, still running on the stock suspension, and is a joy to use!
From my TD of the Figo - again a brand new vehicle - I felt the same.
However, given your requirements, the Liva/Verito might be a better bet. The ride is more cushioned (at speeds up to 60, after which the Figo will be better), space is great, engine is good - in fact, once I got used to it, i think it is better than the figo's - with better FE due to the lighter body).
Personally, I still think the Getz is a great car! Any reason for replacing it? If there are no reliability concerns, why not keep it and make a few changes to enjoy her more? You will sell it for a pittance any ways!

[sups]

Originally Posted by chandras1

Haven't followed the full thread, but do check out the Mahindra Verito if back seat comfort is of paramount importance

Verito top end D6 is 7.7L on road in Pune. I had a short test drive of their abused test drive car. Here are my observations:

• It has ABS and only driver airbag, ample space and solid field.
• Back seat is more comfortable than Etios/Figo/Liva. Under thigh and back support is great for rear seat.
• Very awkword positioning of power window switches.
• Though the engine does not have turbo-lag, its not as involving as Figo/Etios.
• ABS assisted brakes are good, but not in the league of Etios.
• Big turning radius in city, about 5.2m, compared to 4.9m of Etios
• The engine does not have the punch of Etios.

While verito is no doubt good, somehow it did not strike the chord.

Are the verito spare parts readily available like a manza and priced well?

[sups]

Originally Posted by MadhuG

Pl. do test drive the New Dzire. I am sure you would like the back seat ride quality. After TDing the Dzire you can take a call.

Dzire ZDI has 200 days waiting time, so I will have to pay a lot more after price hike. Also space is quite less.

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Personally, as a user of the Fiesta which had covered 80+Kkm with various drivers - it aged superbly well! I am not sure if the Liva will age nearly as well, and I am quite positive our earlier Corolla didn't either - with interior parts coming loose, and what not!
In fact, our Fiesta has done 90+ Kkm, and still returns the same FE as she did on day 1, still running on the stock suspension, and is a joy to use!
From my TD of the Figo - again a brand new vehicle - I felt the same.
However, given your requirements, the Liva/Verito might be a better bet. The ride is more cushioned (at speeds up to 60, after which the Figo will be better), space is great, engine is good - in fact, once I got used to it, i think it is better than the figo's - with better FE due to the lighter body).
Personally, I still think the Getz is a great car! Any reason for replacing it? If there are no reliability concerns, why not keep it and make a few changes to enjoy her more? You will sell it for a pittance any ways!

Getz has given me a great service. Its a company leased car and its end life of 5 years is just a few months away. I could have bought back the car from lease plan, but with a daily city run of 100km, my pocket is bleeding every day. Hence the need of a diesel. And naturally, I want to do it before post-budget price hike.

Yesterday evening, I had again visited toyota show room. Checked Liva and Etios thoroughly. Observations:

• Etios has better back seats (in terms of cushion and overall feel) than that of Liva. After seating in Etios back seat, Liva back seat gave me a "thin" feeling.
• Gear shift in Etios is better than Liva, I cheked a few cars at idle and during test drive again.
• In a short test drive, Etios felt more stable than Liva. The sales man did not agree. But, me and my driver both felt the same.
• Unfortunately, Etios GD does not have ABS included as in Liva GD.
• Everytime I closed the "thin" doors of Etios/Liva, it reminded me of the reassuring "thud" of Figo.

With the above observations, LIVA IS NOW OUT OF THE LIST. ITS NOW FIGO VERSUS ETIOS WITH AN EXTRA COST OF 1.2L FOR ETIOS OVER FIGO. Not able to digest that at 7.9L etios, I am not getting a tacho. Should I have a re-look at fresh new Verito D6 at 7.7L.

The cost of basic fiesta diesel is 7.5L, but does not have ABS. How is the braking in Fiesta without ABS?

[revintup]

Originally Posted by sups

I liked the ride and feel of Etios better than Liva.

My big priority is back seat ride comfort.

If back seat comfort is the most important factor i suggest you go for the etios only. There is much more leg space in the etios compared to liva.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sups

Getz has given me a great service. Its a company leased car and its end life of 5 years is just a few months away. I could have bought back the car from lease plan, but with a daily city run of 100km, my pocket is bleeding every day. Hence the need of a diesel. And naturally, I want to do it before post-budget price hike.

Yesterday evening, I had again visited toyota show room. Checked Liva and Etios thoroughly. Observations:

• Etios has better back seats (in terms of cushion and overall feel) than that of Liva. After seating in Etios back seat, Liva back seat gave me a "thin" feeling.
• Gear shift in Etios is better than Liva, I cheked a few cars at idle and during test drive again.
• In a short test drive, Etios felt more stable than Liva. The sales man did not agree. But, me and my driver both felt the same.
• Unfortunately, Etios GD does not have ABS included as in Liva GD.
• Everytime I closed the "thin" doors of Etios/Liva, it reminded me of the reassuring "thud" of Figo.

With the above observations, LIVA IS NOW OUT OF THE LIST. ITS NOW FIGO VERSUS ETIOS WITH AN EXTRA COST OF 1.2L FOR ETIOS OVER FIGO. Not able to digest that at 7.9L etios, I am not getting a tacho. Should I have a re-look at fresh new Verito D6 at 7.7L.

The cost of basic fiesta diesel is 7.5L, but does not have ABS. How is the braking in Fiesta without ABS?

1) Etios GD would certainly be the better buy.
2) Even though, the tacho is sorely missed. you can make it up with the rpm to speed mapping on my ownership thread. It's just a matter of getting used to ( since, I have driven both the Etios VD ( with tacho ) and Liva GDSP ( without tacho )
3) Verito is a VFM package
4) I wouldn't go for a car without ABS with all these new express highways coming up. Even if you take a Fiesta, go for the one with ABS. Safety is paramount.

[sups]

Originally Posted by amalji

1) Etios GD would certainly be the better buy.
2) Even though, the tacho is sorely missed. you can make it up with the rpm to speed mapping on my ownership thread. It's just a matter of getting used to ( since, I have driven both the Etios VD ( with tacho ) and Liva GDSP ( without tacho )
3) Verito is a VFM package
4) I wouldn't go for a car without ABS with all these new express highways coming up. Even if you take a Fiesta, go for the one with ABS. Safety is paramount.

Thanks amalji. You have helped me a lot in last few days with your comments.

I know these topics have been discussed a lot of time. But, let me ask you for the last time before cutting the cheque:
1. With the apparent "filmsy" build of Etios, do you think it will last properly for 6 years? Yes, I want to keep the car for not less than 5 years unless and untill I win a lottery in between:-).
2. Typical concrete city roads does not at all have smooth surface. Do you feel any bounciness/hash ride on such roads while driving between 40-80 km/hr in your etios?
3. Does Mahindra have niggling issues like a tata car? I know I should not ask you this as you do not own one.

[AWD]

@Sups, I booked Liva & then cancelled the booking after thorough evaluation. The car has below par bulid quality, interiors are pathetic & the heart of the car i.e. the engine is shared with Altis, in which it was know to have good appetite for engine oil.

Competition is offering some very good packages & also evaluate Nissan Sunny if hovering in the Etios segment. Also read various ownership threads on Etios, buyers were not happy with the car.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sups

Thanks amalji. You have helped me a lot in last few days with your comments.

I know these topics have been discussed a lot of time. But, let me ask you for the last time before cutting the cheque:
1. With the apparent "filmsy" build of Etios, do you think it will last properly for 6 years? Yes, I want to keep the car for not less than 5 years unless and untill I win a lottery in between:-).
2. Typical concrete city roads does not at all have smooth surface. Do you feel any bounciness/hash ride on such roads while driving between 40-80 km/hr in your etios?
3. Does Mahindra have niggling issues like a tata car? I know I should not ask you this as you do not own one.

1. Japanese design concept is to provide light weight cars. At the same time, they do everything possible to negate the effect of being light weight. In fact they are easy to maintain than a heavier car and will outlast the heavier cars. Drive the etios@ 140 kmph and it still stays planted in spite if its light weight. :-)

2. I don't find it harsh. Not do I find it really soft. But, the suspensions are generally good and as gto mentioned provides the perfect balance between ride quality and handling

3. I've heard generally good opinion about the verito/logan with regards to engine reliability. But, do not have 1st hand experience with it. Maybe, verito owners can share their opinion. On a recent comparison of entry level diesel sedans by cnn ibn overdrive ( after the release of the new Dzire ) , they rated in the following order

1. Etios
2. Swift dzire
3. Verito
4. Manza

With regards to the oil dipping rumour on d-4d, I know a taxi fleet person and he confirmed that it's an unheard story with his innovas and corollas. It's not reported in team-bhp our any other online portals as well. With regards to my etios diesel, the oil level was touch wood before I took it for my 2nd service @ 10,000 kms.

Check out ownership thread of etios diesel on team-bhp and other forums our in the toyota etios page of facebook. You will see that most of them are happy with the car.

[MadhuG]

Originally Posted by sups

Thanks amalji. You have helped me a lot in last few days with your comments.

I know these topics have been discussed a lot of time. But, let me ask you for the last time before cutting the cheque:
1. With the apparent "filmsy" build of Etios, do you think it will last properly for 6 years? Yes, I want to keep the car for not less than 5 years unless and untill I win a lottery in between:-).
2. Typical concrete city roads does not at all have smooth surface. Do you feel any bounciness/hash ride on such roads while driving between 40-80 km/hr in your etios?
3. Does Mahindra have niggling issues like a tata car? I know I should not ask you this as you do not own one.

My response:
1) I am not sure abt. that though IMHO, it would develop a lot of rattles, since even the Liva test drive vehicle which I drove had a mildly shaking centre dash console cover.
2) Etios/Liva have good ride qualities...hence there is no such bounciness. In fact the ride quality is one of the plusses of Etios and Liva
3)My friend owns a Logan and I have not seen him complaining.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by MadhuG

My response:
1) I am not sure abt. that though IMHO, it would develop a lot of rattles, since even the Liva test drive vehicle which I drove had a mildly shaking centre dash console cover.
2) Etios/Liva have good ride qualities...hence there is no such bounciness. In fact the ride quality is one of the plusses of Etios and Liva
3)My friend owns a Logan and I have not seen him complaining.

The dash console mild rattling is a known issue with etios which I've mentioned on my ownership thread. It was fixed easily by toyota as well. It had nothing to do with the car being light. Other than that, there are no other rattles. I've used all maruti cars and have found the etios to be better than maruti as far as rattles are concerned at least till now. The plastic doesn't feel premium. But they are solid and fitted professionally.