[D4D]

Originally Posted by finneyp

I am planning to upgrade to a diesel sedan (around 10 - 11 lacs), this thread has come very handy, have just scanned the last 3 pages, need to read through all the pages soon.

However, I have shortlisted the below cars:

Fiat Linea - being a very happy owner of Fiat Palio (for last 10+ years), I am naturally inclined to go for Linea, but the underpowered 1.3 MJD is a big NO!
If it had a 1.6 MJD, would have blindly gone for it. Rumours say Fiat will launch the same sometime this year. If it is confirmed, am ready to wait.

Honda City - a very good option, but the downside is Electric power steering & OTR may be around 12 lacs+ which is beyond my budget.

VW Vento - 2nd best to Linea, European car with a 1.6 TDI engine, downsides - Electric power steering, high maintenance cost & unproven ASS.

Ford Fiesta - overall good package, but not sure of ASS & maintenance cost.

Have not considered Verna, Rapid, Scala, Sunny for some obvious reasons.

Suggestions are welcome!

• 1.3 MJD on a linea is joke when competitors are offering 1.5~1.6 liter mils. I don't know anything about the 1.6 MJD
• Honda city is your best bet. Try the SV variant. The best ASS, rear leg room, backing of the Japanese reliability and best FE
• Vento is a good car, but how good is the ASS in your area? Be sure talk to owners before deciding. Do the same with the Rapid. They're just badge engineered twins, so I don't understand your idea of leaving the rapid
• The fiesta's back seat is so-so. If it's not a priority to you, you could give it a try. But remember, ford doesn't have a reptation for bad service, neither does it have a reputation for excellent ASS.May I suggest the ecobost if it comes on the new fiesta?
• You could try waiting for the Maruti YL1. Don't know when it'll launch though.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by finneyp

I am planning to upgrade to a diesel sedan (around 10 - 11 lacs), this thread has come very handy, have just scanned the last 3 pages, need to read through all the pages soon.

However, I have shortlisted the below cars:

Fiat Linea - being a very happy owner of Fiat Palio (for last 10+ years), I am naturally inclined to go for Linea, but the underpowered 1.3 MJD is a big NO!
If it had a 1.6 MJD, would have blindly gone for it. Rumours say Fiat will launch the same sometime this year. If it is confirmed, am ready to wait.

Honda City - a very good option, but the downside is Electric power steering & OTR may be around 12 lacs+ which is beyond my budget.

VW Vento - 2nd best to Linea, European car with a 1.6 TDI engine, downsides - Electric power steering, high maintenance cost & unproven ASS.

Ford Fiesta - overall good package, but not sure of ASS & maintenance cost.

Have not considered Verna, Rapid, Scala, Sunny for some obvious reasons.

Suggestions are welcome!

Hi.Can I point out a few things here to, maybe, clarify decision-making?

The Honda diesel engine is an all-new aluminium one. It is foolhardy to ascribe Honda's generic 'reliability' to this engine. It is also no better a performer than the Linea's 1.3 mjd, though it feels better at lower rpm, largely because of its light, and I would argue especially to a Palio owner, flimsy build. It also, be warned, comes with tyres that are just too small and narrow. IMHO: it is not the well-rounded 'sedan' diesel sedan it is being percieved to be in the wider marketplace.

The 1.6 mjd will come; question is: this year or only the next? IF you are sure of your economics in favour of a diesel, wait a few months, final word on the 1.5/1.6 mjd will be out soon enough. Btw, you can bet that diesel price increases will continue even with this new government.

Having said all this: seems to me like you ought to be giving the upcoming facelifted Fiesta a serious look-in, if you're ok with the rear room and styling. It's going to have, as they say, 'aggressive' pricing.

Test-drive these cars, man, if you haven't already. Never rely on hearsay, even if it's from Team-Bhp-ians!

Cheers

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by finneyp

I am planning to upgrade to a diesel sedan (around 10 - 11 lacs), this thread has come very handy, have just scanned the last 3 pages, need to read through all the pages soon.

Have not considered Verna, Rapid, Scala, Sunny for some obvious reasons.

Suggestions are welcome!

Honestly, if it is diesel you are after, and the enthusiast in you just isn't attracted on any level by the noisy Honda, then wait. Hold out for both the new Ford Fiesta (if rear seating is not top priority) and the Maruti Suzuki Alivio/Ciaz. Keep the Linea in the contending list as well. If the Ford does not satisfy you, remember that both the Fiat as well as the Suzuki unfortunately, will be using the same 1.3mjd motor, however you need not despair since both these cars are fully loaded in terms of features, save up accessories money for a good ECU remap and you should be beaming with either purchase

Cheers!

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by desdemona

Hi.Can I point out a few things here to, maybe, clarify decision-making?

The Honda diesel engine is an all-new aluminium one. It is foolhardy to ascribe Honda's generic 'reliability' to this engine.

Why is it foolhardy to assume this engine is reliable?

Mind you this engine is not new. There is an identical 1.6L version of this engine available internationally since 2011. The 1.5L uses the same engine with a reduced stroke to reduce the cc within 1.5L as per indian tax structure and some minor changes to be able to take care of lower fuel quality in India.

I have heard of couple of Amaze's having run more than 60K kms without much issue.

Unless you know of owners reporting issues in their Amaze's since the last 1+ year let's not assume with incomplete information.

[desdemona]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Why is it foolhardy to assume this engine is reliable?

Mind you this engine is not new. There is an identical 1.6L version of this engine available internationally since 2011. The 1.5L uses the same engine with a reduced stroke to reduce the cc within 1.5L as per indian tax structure and some minor changes to be able to take care of lower fuel quality in India.

I have heard of couple of Amaze's having run more than 60K kms without much issue.

Unless you know of owners reporting issues in their Amaze's since the last 1+ year let's not assume with incomplete information.

I was not aware the 1.6l engine available in Europe since 2011 was an all-aluminium one. Could you confirm that, please, if you know?

I am not saying it IS unreliable.

I am saying the usual 'reliability' tag associated with Honda ought not to be ascribed automatically to this engine, when the market has excellent, proven, reliable diesels like the mjd/DDiS, K9, and the 1.6 VW tdi. It's about who gets the 'benefit of doubt': the great 'batsman' or the mere 'bowler'?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by desdemona

I was not aware the 1.6l engine available in Europe since 2011 was an all-aluminium one. Could you confirm that, please, if you know?

I am not saying it IS unreliable.

I am saying the usual 'reliability' tag associated with Honda ought not to be ascribed automatically to this engine, when the market has excellent, proven, reliable diesels like the mjd/DDiS, K9, and the 1.6 VW tdi. It's about who gets the 'benefit of doubt': the great 'batsman' or the mere 'bowler'?

Yes it is all aluminium as the engine block is the same. As I mentioned same engine but with reduced stroke to reduce the displacement.

You can check these links for the 1.6L engine:

http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/earthdreams/

http://www.topgear.com/uk/honda/civi...-i-dtec-driven

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...13-CAR-review/

Honda is not new to Diesel engines and they have gone for a proven recipe. Not some new engine tech.

For me the benefit of doubt depends on one's track record not on anything else. The 1.3MJD or the K9K did not classified as reliable overnight. It built the reliability over time. So far Honda has managed this with no issues seen by forum members or heard by others.

[fiat_tarun]

The new Fiesta launch should be around the corner. On my recent visit to the Ford plant, it looks like production of the New Fiesta has started. I saw quite a few cars that had just rolled out of the assembly line. The new design is quite nice, and makes the car look a lot less 'bulky', especially the rear.

[finneyp]

Thanks to all for your inputs!

I have finalized on Fiat Linea! Will wait for the confirmation on 1.6 MJD, if it is not coming, will go for the 1.3 MJD and get it Remapped

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Thanks to all for your inputs!

I have finalized on Fiat Linea! Will wait for the confirmation on 1.6 MJD, if it is not coming, will go for the 1.3 MJD and get it Remapped

You may have to wait for an year with the speed Fiat is going about its business. Makes sense to pick up the 1.3 MJD if you cant wait for long and like the Linea over the competition. The discounts that will be soon be available with the 1.3 MJD makes even more lucrative.

[harpreetsubhi]

Mod Note: Moved post here from the Vento Official Review thread where it should receive more objective responses.

Hello All

I recently sold off my Ford Ecosport (8 month old) due to some engine issue, which Ford never realized as an issue.
Now I'm contemplating buying among the two :
Vento TDi - Highline - Approx 60K discount in Faridabad - On road : 10.78L without extended warranty.
Honda City Diesel - SV Variant - On road - 10.65L on road with extended warranty.

My idea is to keep the car for 8 years.

What makes me drift towards Honda is excellent after sales support and low maintenance costs.

Vento excites me about its excellent and solid build quality.

Need advise from all experts on this. So please pour in your comments.

Regards
Harpreet

[ASVA]

@ Harpreet - Sorry to know about your experience with Ford

Both the VW Vento and Honda City are very similarly priced and makes for a tough decision to choose one.

Being a Vento TDI Highline owner (2012), my personal take on the car -

(Hope it helps)

*Fantastic build quality. Will easily serve you for 8+ years.
*Powerful (but less refined than the City's) diesel engine. Superior to the City's in terms of outright power.
*Although VW has a very long way to go to come close to Honda's service and ownership satisfaction levels, they are improving and fast. I have had very good experiences with the VW center where I get my car serviced.
*10,000 kms /1 year service interval. I have spent about 8-9K on each of my 2 services so far. Not much expensive when compared to the cost of the City's 5000 kms/6 months (correct me if I am wrong) interval.
*Strictly personal - I like the clean, contemporary styling of the Vento's over the current City's. Will age gracefully.
*Fantastic suspension set up. The ride quality is simply superb at all speeds and handling is confidence inspiring. I have a bad back (disc problem) and driving can be a pain on bad city roads. The Vento's seats and suspension set up have gone a very long way in making my drive really comfortable.
*Under-equipped as compared to the City.
*Vento's diesel engine is a robust unit and will serve very well when cared for, as in any car. However, in general, the overall reliability levels of the Japanese engines are far superior.
*I personally haven't had any issues/niggles with my Vento so far. Touchwood!

I am reserving all my comments on the City as I haven't driven one extensively and more over, GTO's superb and extensive Official Review on the City covers all aspects very well and will give you a very clear picture.

Finally, back to back, long test drives of both the cars will be your best guide to help you choose depending on what exactly you are looking for in your next car.

All the best!

Regards
ASVA

[khoj]

Based solely on the time frame involved, do yourself a favour and get the Honda.

Originally Posted by harpreetsubhi

My idea is to keep the car for 8 years.

[harpreetsubhi]

Originally Posted by ASVA

@ Harpreet - Sorry to know about your experience with Ford

I am reserving all my comments on the City as I haven't driven one extensively and more over, GTO's superb and extensive Official Review on the City covers all aspects very well and will give you a very clear picture.

Thanks ASVA. I'm still exploring options. As soon as I close on it I will inform.
I have test drove the below cars and here has been my experience:

Ertiga : Not a wow to drive. Basic linear engine.
Duster 85ps : Did not like the lethargic engine.
City : Excellent pickup and good car
Vento : Nice pickup and available raw power as keep on moving up the RPMs.
Amaze : Good car. Excellent space in sub 4 meters. Nice pickup, though doe s not match DZire and City in any respects of pickup.

Few days I will take up a decision. Thanks for your valuable inputs.

Originally Posted by khoj

Based solely on the time frame involved, do yourself a favour and get the Honda.

Thanks Khoj. The only thing makes me drift away from City is the average suspension (may be because of 165 Rubber) and a low Ground clearance. Also it gives me a feeling of a very light build quality.

Still I guess I would be converging to City Only. Will soon let you know the results.

Thanks again.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by harpreetsubhi

Hello All

I recently sold off my Ford Ecosport (8 month old) due to some engine issue, which Ford never realized as an issue.

Can you specify what these engine issues are? Did you have the CRDI engine? I always assumed it was a workhorse. In any case if there was a genuine issue, you should have fought it out rather than cave and sell the vehicle!

Now I'm contemplating buying among the two :
Vento TDi - Highline - Approx 60K discount in Faridabad - On road : 10.78L without extended warranty.
Honda City Diesel - SV Variant - On road - 10.65L on road with extended warranty.

Nothing in it from price point of view. Though you may need extended warranty on the Vento mostly for AC issues, which crop up nearly without fail.

What makes me drift towards Honda is excellent after sales support and low maintenance costs.

Vento excites me about its excellent and solid build quality.

Given that you want peace of mind on service/maintenance front, I think Honda is the way to go. I have owned my Vento for the past 3.5 years now and not really faced any big issues but there is always the niggling doubt at the back of my mind that something will conk off and I will be faced with a huge repair bill, no thanks to the various experiences members have shared with VW/Skoda here on the forums.

"Excellent and solid build quality" is all fine but I honestly think the true German build will be felt from the Jetta up. Polo/Vento are not quit in the same league, though definitely less tinny than the Honda. Some *good* reasons to pick up the Vento over City are:

• Stonker of an engine- the 1.6 TDI will bring a smile on your face
• Better interiors (subjective)
• Classic good looks rather than the garish chrome-overdose on the Honda (subjective)
• Service interval of 1 year/15000 km means you don't need to keep taking the car to the dealership. Maintenance costs are also fairly stable (around 10K/year). Putting this in just to put in perspective your first requirement .

All the best and hope you choose your new beast soon.

[Sommos]

Originally Posted by harpreetsubhi

Now I'm contemplating buying among the two :
Vento TDi - Highline - Approx 60K discount in Faridabad - On road : 10.78L without extended warranty.
Honda City Diesel - SV Variant - On road - 10.65L on road with extended warranty.

My idea is to keep the car for 8 years.

What makes me drift towards Honda is excellent after sales support and low maintenance costs.

Originally Posted by harpreetsubhi

Still I guess I would be converging to City Only. Will soon let you know the results.

The Honda 1.5L i-DTEC diesel focuses entirely on low-end power delivery. Simply put, in-city driveability is outstanding. Turbo lag is nearly inexistent. An area where the City disappoints is NVH, the engine is very audible inside the cabin. Another major disadvantage of the City diesel is the significant amount of engine & drivetrain movement felt on the pedals. The experience takes away from the refinement you expect in a Honda.

The Vento, on the other hand, is an allrounder that provides the benefit of both the world. The TDI engine is fuel efficient on one side and torque master on the other. The stunning engine combined with the spot-on gear box and the robust suspension provides a brilliant ride quality and comfort, even on rough patches, for the occupants.

If you want peace of mind, go for the City.
If you want a smile every time you drive your car, go for the Vento.