[PatienceWins]

Originally Posted by rks

@deepakvrao: The Swift and i10 have similar peak torques, but Swift is heavier. Top speeds are also similar. I think the Swift's peak figures come at higher rpm. In a 0-100 drag race you may rev the Swift to 6000+ rpm and possibly win. But in a real-life situation, the Swift will have a vary tough contest on its hands against the Kappa i10, which ought to outperform the Swift at lower rpms.

I do not think i10 would be able to match the handling of swift - Indian roads are not straight roads. I have not driven i10. But swift felt like a big car inside when compared to i10.

I have owned only Hyundai cars. I upgraded to Getz from a 1999 model Santro.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by DCEite

I never said that Spark is better than the i10. I only said that at 1 lac cheaper price, its a better value for money.
The i10 beats the Spark in every department except (IMO) handling, ride, engine noise and possibly FE.

Whats left? Looks ? beige interiors? or speedo in the right place and that its a 2007 products ?

M800 too is cheaper than Spark and hence VFM?

Originally Posted by iraghava

I would disagree with DCEite & agree with SU, the steering feedback while not being as precise as HPS systems is miles ahead of the EPS in the WagonR/Alto (Haven't yet bothered to TD an Estilo!). I found it quite aceeptable & it does have a reasonably hefty feel to it.

The thing is that the Spark is already a decade old product repackaged with a new engine & a tweak here & a tweak there. Add to that GM's weird pricing policy & you never know, by Diwali you might even get it for 3L on-road!

3L otr, bet? Diwali it will be 3.15OTR, Xmas, 3.05 OTR with 5k discount:P

[JayD]

Originally Posted by rks

Coming to the topic at hand, the i10 Kappa is definitely going to raise the bar and Hyundai's competitors will have to scramble to come up with something comparable.

Man! They sure are gonna have a hard time coming up with something that is uglier, slower and consumes more petrol than the i10.

I personally feel its an ugly santro made uglier, with a different name for the same old engine, and priced waaaay above what its worth. And still people buy it by the thousands. Sad!

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by rks

The Swift and i10 have similar peak torques, but Swift is heavier. Top speeds are also similar. I think the Swift's peak figures come at higher rpm. In a 0-100 drag race you may rev the Swift to 6000+ rpm and possibly win. But in a real-life situation, the Swift will have a vary tough contest on its hands against the Kappa i10, which ought to outperform the Swift at lower rpms.

For city driving, i10 1.2 will be better. No doubt about this. Siwft is already a short stroke motor with high gearing. The motor is inheritently having a weaker bottom end.

But for highway driving, Swift is in different league. It has got more power, IMO, a more free revving enigne and good gearing for highway driving. It has got real long legs for a 1.3 carrying a relatively heavy weight.

BTW, I am now really confused between Hyundai's " MDPS " and Maruti's " EPS ". I think both of them are elctric power steering.

[phamilyman]

Issue with rks' posts was that rather than countering DCEite's experience with counter points, what we got was mere gloat.

Originally Posted by Steeroid

With all due respect, the Spark wouldnt match up to the old i10 on anything except perhaps marginal rear-seat space and ride. The conclusion that it is better than the new i10 is therefore quite difficult to swallow.

The debate was really about VFM. i10 Magna top end all farkles. was like almost close to 4.8 or such some months back. Even the non-ABS magna 1.1 is like 4L ex showroom. The spark top end including airbags/alloys/ABS is on road gurgaon for 3.88. That settles it for me.

In my td experence, the positives of i10:
- lovely interiors.
- Tilt Steering
- Tacho
- Color options
- Faster. That power comes much lower down, unlike the kappa or even the spark.
- Hyundai network.

Negatives:
- Price
- Handling. Please try taking a U turn under a flyover at 50-60. Back to back with a UVA and Spark. They aren't stellar themselves -well ok (love swift/palio here) but the damn thing feels like its gonna topple.
- Spark has superb ride. Indisputable. I have a simple test. Belt oneself in rear seat, drive at 50 kph through horrible potholes. My (very) bad back has voted. To each their experience. Even the seat would play a part here.
- PS. Feedback less at 110 kph. Not remotely confidence inspiring for a car that goes like stink to 100 kph. FWIW, I found the same problem with Swift as well, but dZire felt much better. Spark is slightly better wonlee. But the car feels planted. It is precise no doubt, but basically try taking a nervous S curve. Like zipping between cars madly. Second turn onwards there's nothing.

Neutral:
- Rear seat space. I am 5'11 and found it okay. Depends on driving style. I'm the up-to-steering driver, not push back kinds.
- Looks. Its rear side is ungainly. Spark ain't gonna win a competition but I'm okay with it. That said, Spark is every bit as modern even if the platform is a decade old. Ditto for Palio

[clevermax]

I learned form the newspaper adv. that Kappa is nothing but 16V DOHC. Why is hyundai boasting about that so much as if it is some breakthrough in automotive technology? It is so funny, at the same time irritating.

Sometime back they boasted about something called 'Erlx'.

[sridharps]

The debate was really about VFM

.
Good points , Phamilyman , on the +ves,-ves and neutral of i10. The only point I disagree with you is on the looks of Spark - I find it quite ugly. But that is a personal choice. The obvious reasons for Spark not doing as well as i10 have been well documented. But is also the striking resemblance to the daewood matiz, with all it's negative connotations, another reason for it's relative failure?

[hyper123]

Few pics of the engine bay.
Notice the wrap around the intake pipe. CAI??


The ABS module.


Intakes on the front side of the engine.

[phamilyman]

Sridhar,

I agree. Looks inspire visceral responses in us. The matiz hangover plus of customers being left in the lurch doesn't inspire confidence.

That said, courtesy all the mad discounts, spark has sold well (a recent visit to apex in gurgaon saw 3 sparks being delivered then itself - nowhere maruti level but decent all the same). Enough atleast for us to expect decent support. And with news of a second plant opening (now almost all localized content) GM is here to stay. But yes, that pricing policy is MAD. No two ways.

[kapilsharma80]

what is the mileage that 1.1 i10 is giving in city

[bimi]

Originally Posted by clevermax

I learned form the newspaper adv. that Kappa is nothing but 16V DOHC. Why is hyundai boasting about that so much as if it is some breakthrough in automotive technology? It is so funny, at the same time irritating.

Sometime back they boasted about something called 'Erlx'.

I went to the showroom today to check out the i10Kappa, the test drive car wasnt registered, so I decided to take a drive later tomorrow after the RTO completes his job.
The Sales Consultant informed me that the cars engine is special because of the following technicalities:
1.16V DOHC
2. Silent type timing chain instead of conventional (he said it is a wet type with constant lubrication)
3. All aluminium block which is made of high pressure casting
4. Hydraulic lash adjuster
5. Long reach spark plugs
6. Stretch type belts which will never give "morning sickness" due to less tension
7. Euro 4 & 5 ready engine
8. Compession ratio of 10.5:1 (swift btw is 9:1)
9. Knock sensor
10. The power to weight ratio is 92.5 (ps/ton) (swift is 88.2)
Can any one update us whether there is any other car in this segment which is so advanced as the kappa.

Then we can ascertain whether Hyundai is boasting or not.

ERLX... i have also heard of that. I have heard of PSPO from some fan co. too... I dont think any one knows what is PSPO!! I think these are just marketing gimmicks! ... and I think both PSPO & ERLX have clicked
Cheers

[phamilyman]

Thats what I meant. Santro's HPS is much better than the EPS everyone else uses.

[Technocrat]

I have found i10 to be really good & the Magna was worth all the moolah it demands I mean just check the quality of equipments used.

The Spark: Well its a peppy engine with beautiful ride with decent space inside but even thats not enough for me to convince me or anyone to buy it.

[rks]

Originally Posted by bimi

8. Compession ratio of 10.5:1 (swift btw is 9:1)
9. Knock sensor
10. The power to weight ratio is 92.5 (ps/ton) (swift is 88.2)

Tell you what, this car will be a killer with Speed 97, since it has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 (and knock sensors as well). Put high-octane pettrol and Swift could be huffing and puffing. And given such a high compression ratio, there ought to be a mileage improvement with Speed 97 that is significant enough to offset most of its additional cost. I know which petrol I am going to use, once I get my hands on this car.

[hyper123]

I went through the tech specs of the Kappa just now. Max torque has increased from 10.1 kgm @ 2800 RPM (iRDE) to 11.4kgm @ 4000 RPM. So, as you can see, max torque is at a much higher RPM compared to the 1.1. So, the engine may not make too much of a difference in slow moving city traffic but it will be a pleasure on the highway!

I couldn't find the compression ratio of the kappa anywhere on the website. I don't quite believe that it could be as high as 10.5:1. The VW Jetta is not coming with the 1.4 TSI (170 bhp) just because it has a high compression ratio of 10:1.

Wouldn't hyundai be worried about that? If it really is 10.5:1, the ECU will retard the ignition and that would cause a significant drop in power, right? Like rks said, high octane might be needed (93 should be fine).