[trek]

Originally Posted by 1100D

The Thar doesn't score highly in this area too, its Jeep-like tub, is not a replica of any true Jeep. Plastic quality in Thar is no great shakes either. On the otherhand, barring the new ridiculous front grille (which can easily be retro fitted back) everything else in the Gurkha looks pretty macho. In my eyes I find the Gurkha packing a lot of visual appeal than the Thar.

To each his own. You find the Gurkha appealing while I don't and vice versa for the Thar.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Wannabe's usually follow trends/directions from the hardcorers. Once harcore folks do something, the wannabe's atleast try to make the same procurement.

But here the problem is, the Hard-core folks or wannabe alike, Force motors wants to retain every Gurkha they create to themselves and do not even educate their dealers about the existence of this product, should they end up depleting their collection, of their own masterpieces, by one invaluable piece sold to the outside field.

As you have mentioned, the management is not marketing the Gurkha well and it's loosing out on the sales numbers from interested offroaders. The Gurkha if and when is sold with decent company support will get its share of buyers but if we are talking only about the Sumo in it's current form, I seriously have my doubts on the 'wannabes' queuing up to buy for the urban mall run. The Sumo does not have the so called legacy of the Jeep which the Thar capitalizes on and it surely needs much more than a 4x4 and big offroad tyres to appeal to a wider set of buyers.

[samwagon]

Sumo 4X4 Extreme as seen at Auto Expo 14.
Mods please delete. Pics are already available in this post.

[AVR]

Originally Posted by manikjeet

Tata Has launched 4x4 XENON at 7.64 Lacs so that can be considered an alternative to Sumo 4X4

Can you share a link or more information? Is this the 3.0 Dicor?

Looks like a good price for sure!

Cheers,
Adi

[vinjosep]

Originally Posted by AVR

Can you share a link or more information? Is this the 3.0 Dicor?

Looks like a good price for sure!

Cheers,
Adi

There you go..

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...7-64-lacs.html

[predatorwheelz]

Originally Posted by manikjeet

Tata Has launched 4x4 XENON at 7.64 Lacs so that can be considered an alternative to Sumo 4X4

Originally Posted by AVR

Can you share a link or more information? Is this the 3.0 Dicor?

Looks like a good price for sure!

Cheers,
Adi

Originally Posted by vinjosep

There you go..

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commer...7-64-lacs.html

The Xenon will never be a credible alternative to the kind of audience the Thar/Gurkha is intended to. These are white-collar guys who attend office 5 days a week and "play" in the rough stuff (or aspire to play) in the weekends. These guys will not go for a 5 (plus) metre long vehicle which will be a nightmare to drive in city traffic, and lug around a pickup bed which is worthless for their kind of use.

The Sumo 4X4 Extreme (if it were to be made) would be a 4.2 mtr (read - maneuverable), 7 seater (read-flexible), classic good looks (read - G Wagen clone) all rounder that could also play rough in the weekends. Most of these wannabes (especially the IT/BPO crowd) have ridden sumos as office cabs earlier in their careers, and found them more comfortable than the Mahindra Commanders. Now Xylos and Innovas rule the office cab scene, but the reborn Tata Sumo Gold still exists.

Its time for Tata to realize its sitting on a gold mine.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by trek

The Sumo does not have the so called legacy of the Jeep which the Thar capitalizes on and it surely needs much more than a 4x4 and big offroad tyres to appeal to a wider set of buyers.

The only Legacy the Thar can draw itself from is the 550 (only in terms of looks) not the Jeep.

Originally Posted by predatorwheelz

The Xenon will never be a credible alternative to the kind of audience the Thar/Gurkha is intended to. These are white-collar guys who attend office 5 days a week and "play" in the rough stuff (or aspire to play) in the weekends. These guys will not go for a 5 (plus) metre long vehicle which will be a nightmare to drive in city traffic, and lug around a pickup bed which is worthless for their kind of use.

The Sumo 4X4 Extreme (if it were to be made) would be a 4.2 mtr (read - maneuverable), 7 seater (read-flexible), classic good looks (read - G Wagen clone) all rounder that could also play rough in the weekends.

Add to that the Wheelbase and the overhangs on the Xenon, is not too offroad friendly, even for the pseudo offroaders. Then, the Intercooler is the first one to take a hit, on an incline, should the bumper touch it.

I had posted a comparison data of wheelbase of the Thar vs the Sumo 4x4. The advantage here, is that the Sumo's chassis is built for it, not a mix match of a scorpio front frame and a Bolero rear.

Originally Posted by manikjeet

Tata Has launched 4x4 XENON at 7.64 Lacs so that can be considered an alternative to Sumo 4X4

I cannot Imagine driving a Xenon upto Sandakphu, it won't make it on the turns, simply because its too long. Besides this, won't want to be harrassed at every toll-tax arguing on whether I am a lifestyler or a poultry transporter.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by 1100D

I cannot Imagine driving a Xenon upto Sandakphu, it won't make it on the turns, simply because its too long. Besides this, won't want to be harrassed at every toll-tax arguing on whether I am a lifestyler or a poultry transporter.

As long as its a white plate, and you have a covered bed, I think you should be okay!

[1100D]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

As long as its a white plate, and you have a covered bed, I think you should be okay!

Legally yes, but think about the "quintessential toll-tax man" character, in the end you will win the argument, but just the prospect of getting into one everytime you end up inside a toll booth with people behind honking to glory and thinking wierd things about you (last of which is that you are trying to bargain at the toll-tax) is a big deterrent from buying pickup trucks in India.

No such problems with the Sumo, in comparison to the Xenon, it seems like an instant discount at each encounter.

[Kandisa]

With a bit of imagination, it is not very difficult to make the 4wd Sumo look different from the normal passenger carrier counterpart by some aftermarket additions; and in my personal opinion people looking for an all purpose 4wd vehicle, in 10 Lac category, will not shy away from this just because of the sumo pedigree. But the real question is whether anything substantial is on the cards in near future or it is just the 'concept/auto expo' gimmick? Something more concrete from some insider would have been really great.

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

With a bit of imagination, it is not very difficult to make the 4wd Sumo look different from the normal passenger carrier counterpart by some aftermarket additions; and in my personal opinion people looking for an all purpose 4wd vehicle, in 10 Lac category, will not shy away from this just because of the sumo pedigree. But the real question is whether anything substantial is on the cards in near future or it is just the 'concept/auto expo' gimmick? Something more concrete from some insider would have been really great.

Spot on ! take the example of Bolero, there are few amazingly modified example of Bolero (which is also a copy of G-Wagon) and people appreciate them as well.
I think tata is too busy reinventing the wheel with their bread earner models (Indica/Indigo). Unlike Mahindra, who is expanding its portfolio in almost all possible vehicle category in India.

Shubhendra

[discoverwild]

From the little I have understood after discussions with a friend -

1. Tata is very much planning to bring it to the civilian market and that explains why it was showcased in Red and at the AutoExpo instead of Military Green at the Defence Expo.

2. The specs shared earlier were wrong. The engine is a 3.0L with 115 BHP, 16" wheels, manual 4WD and LSD.

No major body modifications done to keep the price tight and expect prices to be very competitive.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

From the little I have understood after discussions with a friend -

1. Tata is very much planning to bring it to the civilian market and that explains why it was showcased in Red and at the AutoExpo instead of Military Green at the Defence Expo.

2. The specs shared earlier were wrong. The engine is a 3.0L with 115 BHP, 16" wheels, manual 4WD and LSD.

No major body modifications done to keep the price tight and expect prices to be very competitive.

Wanna make a bet on it
Seriously. I very much doubt Tata is interested in this vehicle. They just wanted some mean looking show cars.
The Tata focus is currently on the sedan/hatch.
In the SUV pipeling, Mahindra has Ssangyong, so it can show some concepts and pipeline vehicles.
So whats in Tata pipeline in SUV space?
Lets see.
Aria Successor... NADA
Storme ... 2 year old wine, so NADA

So what can Tata do? Just showcase old stuff, or slap on some body modifications.
This is what they chose. Bring the footfalls.
Tata is not the only one.

Toyota has nothing in small SUV space. So they put a cycle on Etios and called it SUV.
Fiat has nothing , they put a cycle and called Punto a SUV
Tata has nothing new, so put on some blue tints on Storme with funky lights and tires, and put some cladding on their Sumo and fit in auto locking hubs...

Heck, none of the spotters have even spotted test mules of 4WD sumo. If tata has to sell it it has to go to ARAI. Right?

We even see Quanto 4WD(export market only though) mules testing. Storme mules were testing and at ARAI.

So in the next one year or so, logic dictates, that Tata is not going to sell sumo 4x4 in any avatar because they haven't even sent it to ARAI for CMVR approval.

The day I see test mule spyshots, I will believe.
If everything shown at Expos made into production, you and me would be going to office in a flying car!

[discoverwild]

TSK,

I understand the cause of your negativity, but I can still wager on it. Tata has seen how the Thar took to the streets while the Gurkha got ditched. So my guess is this will make them sense that they have just the thing in their stable to counter the Thar.

DB Sir didn't just move to Tata to be an armchair enthusiast. Also, though I know Tata has taken too long to move, they are much better than their other counterparts in the Indian market.

Regarding your quote on not spotting test mules, (exactly the same point which was being debated by another friend and me), would you even give a second look at an old Sumo in white? The 4WD Sumo has already been registered to the Army and as ambulances, so the homologation is already done, right?

Spotting test mules with distinct body mods is easy. Not with something like the Sumo. I am not sure how soon it might be launched, but the launch will definitely happen.

The Aria was a major blunder in the way they priced it and the way they didn't launch the 2WD first. Hence it never made that bang. So they are not interested in meddling with it now. Or maybe, something is happening in the background.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

Regarding your quote on not spotting test mules, (exactly the same point which was being debated by another friend and me), would you even give a second look at an old Sumo in white? The 4WD Sumo has already been registered to the Army and as ambulances, so the homologation is already done, right?.

I do not think so
The 3.0 engine in 115PS format is not EU IV compliant.
For Army and govt use, the requirements for homologation are quite different, or relaxed, in other words.
I am pretty confident that tata has to go to ARAI if they want to sell a civilian version of this vehicle.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The day I see test mule spyshots, I will believe.
If everything shown at Expos made into production, you and me would be going to office in a flying car!

Did you see test mule spyshots of Tata Zest? I didn't.