Which 4x4 should I buy : Thinking out aloud. EDIT : Finalised on a white Gypsy!

starter · 17th March 2010, 16:27

Congrats on the new Gypsy GS!
Subros is definitely better, from what i've heard, it shall be a bolt-on to the standard engine mounts.
My only question is, where would the condenser be fitted? In front of the radiator or somewhere underneath the chassis?
I would not want the Gypsy to overheat GS. I tell you, Gypsies are super sensitive when it comes to over-heating.
At peak summer, the temperature needle is already a line above where it used to be normally.
Would keep a watch on your thread to hear from you.
Cheers,
Deepak

KSM-Vtec · 17th March 2010, 16:28

@ GS - which month are you planning to visit ladakh in ???

believe me, if you plan to do it in Aug/Sept you will not need a heater.

Also, i may be wrong but isn't the Subros compressor the one that comes installed in the M800?? And if it is the same then in guess it will not be enough to provide you enough cooling now and more so later when you get the ST.

Sawyer · 17th March 2010, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

The positives are improved ride quality when you pressurize at 26 PSI in front and 24PSI in the rear.

Maruti recommends 20 all around for an unloaded car - and 26 at the rear fully loaded. Any reason you are not following that recommendation? I keep my Yokos at 22 all around, and the car still bounces around, lightly loaded.
Also, if you are making a Leh trip, you may want to consider postponing the AC/heat till you are back from there. Longer term in Mumbai, the AC is almost a must, but for the Leh trip, in the interest of reliability, you may want to keep the engine in OE trim.

starter · 17th March 2010, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

@ GS - which month are you planning to visit ladakh in ???

believe me, if you plan to do it in Aug/Sept you will not need a heater.

I agree with that.

Quote:

Also, i may be wrong but isn't the Subros compressor the one that comes installed in the M800?? And if it is the same then in guess it will not be enough to provide you enough cooling now and more so later when you get the ST.

Not sure KSM but i think this is the compressor that used to come with Esteem. Since you have an AC installed in yours, two questions:
Do you have Sanden compressor? If yes, is it bolt on to the stock engine mounts or would you need some custom brackets made for these? If we need custom brackets, are they readily available?
Where do you have the condenser fitted and did you have any overheating issues?
Thanks KSM.
Cheers,
Deepak

gsferrari · 17th March 2010, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by starter

Subros is definitely better, from what i've heard, it shall be a bolt-on to the standard engine mounts.

Yes it is direct fit and I sourced the OEM bracket as well. Hence the overall job will be much cleaner.

Quote:

My only question is, where would the condenser be fitted? In front of the radiator or somewhere underneath the chassis? I would not want the Gypsy to overheat GS. I tell you, Gypsies are super sensitive when it comes to over-heating. At peak summer, the temperature needle is already a line above where it used to be normally

In front of the radiator with an additional electric fan for the condensor. If required, will replace the viscous clutch fan with an electric fan as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

@ GS - which month are you planning to visit ladakh in ??? believe me, if you plan to do it in Aug/Sept you will not need a heater.

Late September and Kumar insists that a heater will be required. I'll have a call with him and you later today to sort this out.

Quote:

Also, i may be wrong but isn't the Subros compressor the one that comes installed in the M800?? And if it is the same then in guess it will not be enough to provide you enough cooling now and more so later when you get the ST.

ST? It is the compressor from the Esteem 1.3L.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Maruti recommends 20 all around for an unloaded car - and 26 at the rear fully loaded. Any reason you are not following that recommendation? I keep my Yokos at 22 all around, and the car still bounces around, lightly loaded

I am following recommendations of the tire manufacturer (printed on the tire itself). Yoko recommends 26 all around. I decided to go 2psi lower for the rear.

Kaushik - what pressures were you running?

Quote:

Also, if you are making a Leh trip, you may want to consider postponing the AC/heat till you are back from there. Longer term in Mumbai, the AC is almost a must, but for the Leh trip, in the interest of reliability, you may want to keep the engine in OE trim.

I had the same intentions in the beginning but I am not able to manage without AC right now and September is quite a long way away.

ntomer · 17th March 2010, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

3. Custom-channels to make the defrost vents operational (in the stock Gypsy they are just dummy vents)

In the export-vehicles (LHD) made by Maruti, these defrost vents are operational. And Maruti sells a kit to make these work in RHD vehicles.

The part number is 99000M24120-371; and it costs Rs. 22066/-.

Cheers

Nitin

KSM-Vtec · 17th March 2010, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by starter

I agree with that.

Not sure KSM but i think this is the compressor that used to come with Esteem. Since you have an AC installed in yours, two questions:
Do you have Sanden compressor? If yes, is it bolt on to the stock engine mounts or would you need some custom brackets made for these? If we need custom brackets, are they readily available?
Where do you have the condenser fitted and did you have any overheating issues?
Thanks KSM.
Cheers,
Deepak

Yes, i have the sanden 507 + superking setup + stock vents + Compressor Fan - Setup

More details on my setup can be found here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post1377755

Ready mounts for the sanden 507 + gypsy engine areavailable in the market and your AC guys should be able to source them.

I am told that the subros compressor in the M800 & Esteem is often replaced with the Sanden 507 and hence the mount(for maruti) is available in most places.

KSM-Vtec · 17th March 2010, 17:12

My reply in bold....

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Late September and Kumar insists that a heater will be required. I'll have a call with him and you later today to sort this out.

Ya lets do that. Dont think he remembers that i dint have a heater. The heat from the engine bay is enough to make you very comfy.

ST? It is the compressor from the Esteem 1.3L.
ST - Soft top

Kaushik - what pressures were you running?
I was running 28 on all 4.

I had the same intentions in the beginning but I am not able to manage without AC right now and September is quite a long way away.
There is no way you can go to Ladakh without an AC, remember you have to pass RJ. The travel fatigue is way toomuch w/o the AC. No heater is all cool.

starter · 17th March 2010, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

Yes, i have the sanden 507 + superking setup + stock vents + Compressor Fan - Setup

More details on my setup can be found here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-ve...ml#post1377755

Thanks a lot for your reply Kaushik.
Read through your thread and from what i see, you have a bigger copper 3-line radiator, am i right?
Would it need some alterations on the body to fit this bigger radiator, a condensor and an additional fan in that limited space?
So, this is what one would have to do, in case he ends up with overheating issue.
Very informative thread Kaushik.
Thanks a lot.
Cheers,
Deepak

KSM-Vtec · 17th March 2010, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by starter

Thanks a lot for your reply Kaushik.
Read through your thread and from what i see, you have a bigger copper 3-line radiator, am i right?
Would it need some alterations on the body to fit this bigger radiator, a condensor and an additional fan in that limited space?
So, this is what one would have to do, in case he ends up with overheating issue.
Very informative thread Kaushik.
Thanks a lot.
Cheers,
Deepak

Yes i do have a 3 line copper radiator which helps a lot.

No major/time consuming alterations required only a few small changes to make all that fit in.

Thanks a lot Deepak!!!

gsferrari · 17th March 2010, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntomer

In the export-vehicles (LHD) made by Maruti, these defrost vents are operational. And Maruti sells a kit to make these work in RHD vehicles. The part number is 99000M24120-371; and it costs Rs. 22066/-.

Nitin, can you post a scan of the page with this part number please? Is 22066 for the vent channel/pipes alone or does it include the heater coil and blower fan?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

Ready mounts for the sanden 507 + gypsy engine areavailable in the market and your AC guys should be able to source them.

I am told that the subros compressor in the M800 & Esteem is often replaced with the Sanden 507 and hence the mount(for maruti) is available in most places.

The Subros market rate is higher than the Sanden 507 and the report is that the 507 (112cc?) loads up the engine a tad more than the 80cc Subros. In any case Sripadh will also check out the variable compressor. Taking the final call tomorrow. Surprisingly, the variable compressor (7 piston) is easier on the engine than the fixed compressors.

We'll know more tomorrow!

gsferrari · 17th March 2010, 20:57

Quick Update:

Took the Gypsy to work today and it was the center of attention at traffic lights and in my office parking lot as well. People are under the impression that the Gypsy went out of production in 2000/01 and they were shocked when I told them that this one was brand new. MUL is doing a great job making sure people don't buy the Gypsy and I have no idea why. With factory fitted AC and PS and a nice DDiS engine, this car should sell great if priced at 6.5 ex showroom. I don't think there is anything to match it at that price. They can also get a 2WD variant out at 5.5 ex showroom...will be a BIG seller at that price. They can also save money by shedding some weight and perhaps using a fiberglass bonnet. Anyway - it just makes sense to me and perhaps they don't see it that way.

I got nice and sweaty today, the OEM seat is junk and not worth keeping around. I need to sort out the seats immediately and will do some hunting around tomorrow. The stock seats are so bad that I don't mind leaving the Gypsy with the AC guys for 2 days while I figure out a better option.

Question: How do I ensure the aftermarket seats are safely mounted? I want to shift the rails back about 2 inches as well and raise the height about 1-1.5 inches. I also want to know who is the best mechanic to carry out this work for me. Need some help here.

Side Mirrors: I need better side mirrors and I think I will stick with a car type mirror. Will the mirrors off a GV or SX4 fit? I'm thinking of getting those in white but I don't want it to look "jugaad". The stock mirrors are junk and never point in the same direction longer than 10 seconds.

Pouches/compartments: There is no place to keep anything other than the parcel tray. I want to get camera, phone, water bottle, coins etc. into pouches and compartments. I need to work with a good upholstery guy to get these things sorted out.

Stereo: This is still pending. I'll get it done before my trip to Bangalore next week.

FWH: I really believe I am going to need a pair of these now. If they can reduce the steering effort and improve performance then I'll bite. Anyone got a pair of Lamba's I can quickly try out to see if it is my scene? Would really appreciate it if I could try them out.

Tejas@perioimpl · 17th March 2010, 21:56

My answers in bold:

Question: How do I ensure the aftermarket seats are safely mounted? I want to shift the rails back about 2 inches as well and raise the height about 1-1.5 inches. I also want to know who is the best mechanic to carry out this work for me. Need some help here.

Your local body work guy will do it for you. Go to CST road at Kurla for seat options

Side Mirrors: I need better side mirrors and I think I will stick with a car type mirror. Will the mirrors off a GV or SX4 fit? I'm thinking of getting those in white but I don't want it to look "jugaad". The stock mirrors are junk and never point in the same direction longer than 10 seconds.

Use bolero ORVMs

Pouches/compartments: There is no place to keep anything other than the parcel tray. I want to get camera, phone, water bottle, coins etc. into pouches and compartments. I need to work with a good upholstery guy to get these things sorted out.

In addition to upholstery, what i had done with my gypsy and also classic is that i mounted a motorcycle fibre box on the inside of the rear door behind the spare tyre. Lockable safety as well

FWH: I really believe I am going to need a pair of these now. If they can reduce the steering effort and improve performance then I'll bite. Anyone got a pair of Lamba's I can quickly try out to see if it is my scene? Would really appreciate it if I could try them out.

i just got mine fitted. FH won't reduce steering effort though. Improves acceleration and gives better FE (both marginal) and ofcourse less wear and tear of parts

saintsinner · 18th March 2010, 03:51

we got a sanden 507/super king blower + concorde split unit in a 2010 Gypsy. the original mech fan and radiator are retained. the condenser is in the front and some chinese fan was fitted. not happy with it and the installer put in a bigger chinese fan. had a bad feeling about the CFM looking at the blades so we went for the Indigo Fan made by Behr. i would suggest it is probably the best fan for the condenser. no problems with the mech fan yet but if happens would get a electric one. Cost of the AC setup was about 44K, stock vents have been used for the front.

An yes a Jimny PS system for another 30K or so...which has some problems!!! the wheels lock up but the steering could still be pushed further with ease. and when you push it further - you can see the entire front suspension flex!!!

starter · 18th March 2010, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintsinner

we got a sanden 507/super king blower + concorde split unit in a 2010 Gypsy. the original mech fan and radiator are retained. the condenser is in the front and some chinese fan was fitted. not happy with it and the installer put in a bigger chinese fan. had a bad feeling about the CFM looking at the blades so we went for the Indigo Fan made by Behr. i would suggest it is probably the best fan for the condenser.

Dear Saintsinner,
Thanks a lot for this information.
What is this concorde split unit? Does this help you have an AC vent at the back as well?
This fan that you've mentioned, is this readily available at spare part dealers?
Last question, does the Gypsy start behaving weird after the AC fitment? What i mean is, if you drive an Alto/800 with AC, it coughs and jolts like crazy when the AC is on. Does Gypsy also behave similar when the AC is on?
Thanks a lot.
Cheers,
Deepak

17th March 2010, 16:27	#136
starter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: My city Posts: 1,140 Thanked: 930 Times	Congrats on the new Gypsy GS! Subros is definitely better, from what i've heard, it shall be a bolt-on to the standard engine mounts. My only question is, where would the condenser be fitted? In front of the radiator or somewhere underneath the chassis? I would not want the Gypsy to overheat GS. I tell you, Gypsies are super sensitive when it comes to over-heating. At peak summer, the temperature needle is already a line above where it used to be normally. Would keep a watch on your thread to hear from you. Cheers, Deepak
	() Thanks

17th March 2010, 16:28	#137
KSM-Vtec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: MH-02-India-Bombay-Bandra Posts: 1,561 Thanked: 447 Times View My Garage	@ GS - which month are you planning to visit ladakh in ??? believe me, if you plan to do it in Aug/Sept you will not need a heater. Also, i may be wrong but isn't the Subros compressor the one that comes installed in the M800?? And if it is the same then in guess it will not be enough to provide you enough cooling now and more so later when you get the ST.
	() Thanks

17th March 2010, 20:57	#147
gsferrari Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,026 Thanked: 2,027 Times	Quick Update: Took the Gypsy to work today and it was the center of attention at traffic lights and in my office parking lot as well. People are under the impression that the Gypsy went out of production in 2000/01 and they were shocked when I told them that this one was brand new. MUL is doing a great job making sure people don't buy the Gypsy and I have no idea why. With factory fitted AC and PS and a nice DDiS engine, this car should sell great if priced at 6.5 ex showroom. I don't think there is anything to match it at that price. They can also get a 2WD variant out at 5.5 ex showroom...will be a BIG seller at that price. They can also save money by shedding some weight and perhaps using a fiberglass bonnet. Anyway - it just makes sense to me and perhaps they don't see it that way. I got nice and sweaty today, the OEM seat is junk and not worth keeping around. I need to sort out the seats immediately and will do some hunting around tomorrow. The stock seats are so bad that I don't mind leaving the Gypsy with the AC guys for 2 days while I figure out a better option. Question: How do I ensure the aftermarket seats are safely mounted? I want to shift the rails back about 2 inches as well and raise the height about 1-1.5 inches. I also want to know who is the best mechanic to carry out this work for me. Need some help here. Side Mirrors: I need better side mirrors and I think I will stick with a car type mirror. Will the mirrors off a GV or SX4 fit? I'm thinking of getting those in white but I don't want it to look "jugaad". The stock mirrors are junk and never point in the same direction longer than 10 seconds. Pouches/compartments: There is no place to keep anything other than the parcel tray. I want to get camera, phone, water bottle, coins etc. into pouches and compartments. I need to work with a good upholstery guy to get these things sorted out. Stereo: This is still pending. I'll get it done before my trip to Bangalore next week. FWH: I really believe I am going to need a pair of these now. If they can reduce the steering effort and improve performance then I'll bite. Anyone got a pair of Lamba's I can quickly try out to see if it is my scene? Would really appreciate it if I could try them out.
	() Thanks

17th March 2010, 21:56	#148
Tejas@perioimpl Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 4,428 Thanked: 9,765 Times View My Garage	My answers in bold: Question: How do I ensure the aftermarket seats are safely mounted? I want to shift the rails back about 2 inches as well and raise the height about 1-1.5 inches. I also want to know who is the best mechanic to carry out this work for me. Need some help here. Your local body work guy will do it for you. Go to CST road at Kurla for seat options Side Mirrors: I need better side mirrors and I think I will stick with a car type mirror. Will the mirrors off a GV or SX4 fit? I'm thinking of getting those in white but I don't want it to look "jugaad". The stock mirrors are junk and never point in the same direction longer than 10 seconds. Use bolero ORVMs Pouches/compartments: There is no place to keep anything other than the parcel tray. I want to get camera, phone, water bottle, coins etc. into pouches and compartments. I need to work with a good upholstery guy to get these things sorted out. In addition to upholstery, what i had done with my gypsy and also classic is that i mounted a motorcycle fibre box on the inside of the rear door behind the spare tyre. Lockable safety as well FWH: I really believe I am going to need a pair of these now. If they can reduce the steering effort and improve performance then I'll bite. Anyone got a pair of Lamba's I can quickly try out to see if it is my scene? Would really appreciate it if I could try them out. i just got mine fitted. FH won't reduce steering effort though. Improves acceleration and gives better FE (both marginal) and ofcourse less wear and tear of parts
	() Thanks

18th March 2010, 03:51	#149
saintsinner BANNED Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Noida Posts: 612 Thanked: 11 Times	we got a sanden 507/super king blower + concorde split unit in a 2010 Gypsy. the original mech fan and radiator are retained. the condenser is in the front and some chinese fan was fitted. not happy with it and the installer put in a bigger chinese fan. had a bad feeling about the CFM looking at the blades so we went for the Indigo Fan made by Behr. i would suggest it is probably the best fan for the condenser. no problems with the mech fan yet but if happens would get a electric one. Cost of the AC setup was about 44K, stock vents have been used for the front. An yes a Jimny PS system for another 30K or so...which has some problems!!! the wheels lock up but the steering could still be pushed further with ease. and when you push it further - you can see the entire front suspension flex!!!
	() Thanks