[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Interestingly enough, I'd just watched that vid yesterday - really lovely bike.

Ladakh, as you know, is pretty demanding since any extra weight creates that much more strain when you're climbing miles and miles vertically. I hope you can make it work, 'cause it's a really cool design and seems well-sized; But if it doesn't end up being suitable, you can probably pick up a very light older disposal Trek/Merida or even Raleigh alloy MTB frame to build up. Plenty strong/ robust, and with all the new-fangled gearing setups, disc brakes, and carbon coming in, those 10+ year-olds are starting to look pretty antiquated; I've seen some pretty badly scratched up units up here with bad forks, etc, that I doubt anyone would demand more than ₹4-5,000 for complete, maybe even less. Could be a good starting point for a robust tourer.

-Eric

Exactly my thoughts Eric. Once I came back home and got busy with the measuring tape I confirmed my seat of the pants suspicion (impression) owning and riding both bikes.

The Top Gear is longer than the ACT (all Top Tube measurements in a horizontal parallel to floor plane, and not along the actual length of the top tube; similarly center of bottom bracket to top of seat tube measured to the point on the seat tube where a horizontal line drawn backwards from the top of the head tube would intersect the seat tube) but also shorter (or the bottom bracket is higher off the ground) -

Top Gear - Center of BB to Top of Seat Tube 17", Top Tube 22"

ACT - Center of BB to Top of Seat Tube 19", Top Tube 20.5"

As far as I know, MTBs and Hybrids are sized by the first measurement, and road bikes by the second. So the ACT is actually at 19" one size larger than the Top Gear. Which explains why I need an over tall quill stem to make the Top Gear work for me.

CAAD - Center of BB to Top of Seat Tube 21.25", Top Tube 21.25" (both lengths exactly the same at 54 cm - the frame size of the bike).

I'm shelving the day old idea of modding the Top Gear. Yes she will eventually be a Classic. But more importantly, more than the limited gear range, the weight trumps all for what I want from a steel (or alloy) touring bike.

Thanks as always for your clarity of thought!

Cheers, Doc

[vb-saan]

Managed to spend around hour in the bike shop yesterday, browsing through and trying out the Trek Domane and Emonda for quite a few rounds on the road bikes floor. They did not have the AL versions in stock, so the trials were on the respective Carbon models.

Trek Domane: Tested on SL6, size 58, Shimano Ultegra groupset, 700x32c tyres

• Positives: This was an extremely comfortable bike, like a smooth luxury sedan in the bike world. Not sure if its due to the isospeed decoupler thing or the carbon wheels with 32c tyres, the ride was extremely cushiony and the whole riding position is extremely comfort oriented. The AL5 won’t have the same level of comfort but got a good gauge of the geometry and riding position. Really felt like a comfortable long-distance cruiser.
• Negatives: Not sure if it’s a negative, but other than drop bar the bike felt very similar to my FX3. And the bike somehow looked massive.

Trek Émonda: Tested on SL5, size 58, Shimano 105 groupset, 700x28c tyres

• Positives: An extremely mean looking machine, jumping on the bike the difference (with the Domane was immediately felt). Riding position is much more aggressive, needed a bit more familiarization. The difference in weight was immediately felt and this is not as forgiving as the Domane, but somehow I liked the way the bike behaved. It really gave that nice sports car feel, and the bike had that sense of connection. And it looked the part – mean and lightweight!
• Negatives: This will have a slightly higher learning curve compared to the Domane, the friendly sales guy is of the opinion that the Domane could be a better fit for me.

The Émonda SL5’s handlebar was narrower (42mm) compared to the Domane (44mm), but I was told that the ALR5 version comes with 44mm handlebar, and the tyres go to 25c. From the test rides, I feel either of these bikes (respective AL versions) will work for me. Though the Domane is touted as a long-distance endurance model I feel sporty Émonda will be equally enjoyable. But at this point they are not sure when the stocks will come in – could be in the next couple of months, or early next year.

Couple of pictures of the test bikes:

Domane SL6 in Satin Dark Aquatic/Black color




Émonda SL5 in Quicksilver/Brushed Chrome color




And the initial consideration – Checkpoint with the beefy tyres

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by vb-san

From the test rides, I feel either of these bikes (respective AL versions) will work for me. Though the Domane is touted as a long-distance endurance model I feel sporty Émonda will be equally enjoyable. But at this point they are not sure when the stocks will come in – could be in the next couple of months, or early next year.

Ooh man! Kid in a candy store!

Excellent situation. Go back and test ride. Multiple times. I'm not sure how much of an option you have, but try both the bikes over different terrains (road, gravel, grass), elevations (flyovers in your case) and other aspects. You have the perfect reason and no sales guy to push you to buy one asap. Or just simply longer rides than the current ones you did. How long were your test rides?

Ultrega and 105 are pretty close on a daily usage basis; I find the 105 components pretty good on my daily rides so shouldn't be a differentiating factor IMO. Will they allow you to ride the Domane on 25c tires? Maybe the cushioning comfort might be due to the slightly wider tires too.

P.s. Wasn't clear if it's in the selection criteria, but what's the hit to the wallet for all 4 options (AL & carbon).

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Managed to spend around hour in the bike shop yesterday, browsing through and trying out the Trek Domane and Emonda for quite a few rounds on the road bikes floor. They did not have the AL versions in stock, so the trials were on the respective Carbon models.

One of my friends (who buys and sells bikes similar to you!) first had the same brushed silver Emonda ALR 5. Now he's sold back that bike and has a Checkpoint ALR 4 and an Emonda SL 5. The Emonda is for racing while the Checkpoint with the wide tyres and GRX low geared drivetrain is what he uses for BRMs. In fact the recent 200 he was riding that one.

Cheers, Doc

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Ooh man! Kid in a candy store!

It was literally that

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Excellent situation. Go back and test ride. Multiple times. I'm not sure how much of an option you have, but try both the bikes over different terrains (road, gravel, grass), elevations (flyovers in your case) and other aspects. You have the perfect reason and no sales guy to push you to buy one asap. Or just simply longer rides than the current ones you did. How long were your test rides?

This was like max around 100m rounds in and around the showroom, but multiple rounds. He gave both the bikes to me to try out and went to attend a customer who was closing on a Madone SLR7. So, I had both the bikes to play around for more than an hour.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Ultrega and 105 are pretty close on a daily usage basis; I find the 105 components pretty good on my daily rides so shouldn't be a differentiating factor IMO.

Yes, both the drivetrains felt good, Coming from an Alivio/Acera drivetrain, I found the 105 quite exquisite. And the AL options I consider (Domane AL5 and Emonda ALR5), both comes with 105 components.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Will they allow you to ride the Domane on 25c tires?

Not sure, I believe customization is possible but could shoot up on the cost.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Maybe the cushioning comfort might be due to the slightly wider tires too.

Yes possible, and that isospeed cushioning thing also could be a contributing factor.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

P.s. Wasn't clear if it's in the selection criteria, but what's the hit to the wallet for all 4 options (AL & carbon).

Cost of the AL models:

• Domane AL5: Around SGD 3,200 (~ INR175,000)
• Emonda ALR5: This should around be SGD 3,500 (~ INR 190,000)

The test rides were both CF models:

• Domane SL6: SGD 6,199 (~INR 335,000)
• Emonda SL5: SGD 4,499 (~INR 245,000)

Originally Posted by ebonho

One of my friends (who buys and sells bikes similar to you!) first had the same brushed silver Emonda ALR 5. Now he's sold back that bike and has a Checkpoint ALR 4 and an Emonda SL 5. The Emonda is for racing while the Checkpoint with the wide tyres and GRX low geared drivetrain is what he uses for BRMs. In fact the recent 200 he was riding that one.

Great point! This is what the sales guy mentioned as well. Knowing my preference, he said the Domane maybe the best suited – to cover longer distances /explore and not really racing and hitting top speeds. Checkpoint was my initial thought, and I am sure it will be comfortable one with those 40c tyres. But somehow it did not connect that well with me. Domane impressed both times and Emonda though has the aggressive stance, was still quite nice. And I loved the look of the bike

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Great point! This is what the sales guy mentioned as well. Knowing my preference, he said the Domane maybe the best suited – to cover longer distances /explore and not really racing and hitting top speeds. Checkpoint was my initial thought, and I am sure it will be comfortable one with those 40c tyres. But somehow it did not connect that well with me. Domane impressed both times and Emonda though has the aggressive stance, was still quite nice. And I loved the look of the bike

This much trial is more than enough. I usually know what i want first time I see it. Maybe I have a visual brain.

If you like both these bikes then don't overthink it. Buy the one you like to look at more.

I'm dead serious.

And yes, for the kind of riding you do, or most of us under 200 km, comfort is a highly overrated thing.

These are essentially all versions of race bikes. If you want to be comfortable the couch is a great alternative.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. Don't any of these bikes come with rim brake versions?

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by ebonho

This much trial is more than enough. I usually know what i want first time I see it. Maybe I have a visual brain.

If you like both these bikes then don't overthink it. Buy the one you like to look at more.

I'm dead serious.

And yes, for the kind of riding you do, or most of us under 200 km, comfort is a highly overrated thing.

Agreed, I got that connection with both the bikes, the Emonda slightly more. It will be one of these (when it is available) – the grey & black Emonda or orange Domane. I have an affinity for black, but the Domane in black looks is exactly like my FX3, but with a drop bar.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Don't any of these bikes come with rim brake versions?

No, Emonda ALR range is now disc-only, and for Domane, there is an AL2 that comes with rim brakes. I saw a few Emonda / Madone CF models with rim brakes in the showroom.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by vb-san

This was like max around 100m rounds in and around the showroom, but multiple rounds. He gave both the bikes to me to try out and went to attend a customer who was closing on a Madone SLR7. So, I had both the bikes to play around for more than an hour.

Ah okay. I guess my experience comes from different situations. I had the Madone and Domane to ride on open roads (no conditions) - did a few kms on a mix of grass trail and paved roads (with craters included).

Same was the case for Synapse (different shop) - took it around Chicago downtown on a mix of elevations and mostly cemented roads. More than looks, the Colnago made the deal itself on a similar ~4 km ride. Did it twice just to make sure.

On a side note, I had the same luxury in Bombay for the Quick 7. Could take it around the suburb for ~15 mins on a mix of really bad roads (typical of Mumbai). Surprised they allowed me but I guess I seemed serious enough to them.

Well, it's a nice problem statement to have


Edit: Agree with @doc on the look aspect once you finalize the bike. My vote - go for the one that stands out. Years later the 'different' frame/bike color will be significantly relevant

[narayanang76]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Agreed, I got that connection with both the bikes, the Emonda slightly more. It will be one of these (when it is available) – the grey & black Emonda or orange Domane. I have an affinity for black, but the Domane in black looks is exactly like my FX3, but with a drop bar.

I would also say DO test ride the AL bikes when they arrive, then finally decide. As the Ride feel of Carbon frame and Alloy frame can be quite different.

On a lighter note, when I heard all these names Emonda, Madone and Domane first time, they were so confusing and sound all similar.. felt like just rearranged letters to make different names.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by narayanang76

I would also say DO test ride the AL bikes when they arrive, then finally decide. As the Ride feel of Carbon frame and Alloy frame can be quite different.

Absolutely, will be checking the AL bikes versions once get into the showroom. Thank you

Originally Posted by narayanang76

On a lighter note, when I heard all these names Emonda, Madone and Domane first time, they were so confusing and sound all similar.. felt like just rearranged letters to make different names.

It is actually that! I was thinking about that yesterday; all the three names are same set of letters rearranged

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Great point! This is what the sales guy mentioned as well. Knowing my preference, he said the Domane maybe the best suited – to cover longer distances /explore and not really racing and hitting top speeds. Checkpoint was my initial thought, and I am sure it will be comfortable one with those 40c tyres. But somehow it did not connect that well with me. Domane impressed both times and Emonda though has the aggressive stance, was still quite nice. And I loved the look of the bike

Checkpoint per my friend is a go anywhere bike (Trek's gravel bike).

The Emonda is Trek's lightweight racer. Agile and fast.

The Domane is their Endurance bike.

The Madone is their pure aero bike. That distinction between pure aero and pure lightweight is now narrowing with many manufacturers. Even Cannondale have changed the look of their iconic CAADs to the dropped seat stay aero look of the CAAD13 mirroring the System Six. And did the same to their equally legendary Super Six Evo. I'm not a great fan of this change, but it is what it is.

The Checkpoint actually transforms in its whole feel and dynamics with thinner road slicks.

My friend now has Continental GP5000s on them and very easily managed an average speed of 25 kmph over the 200 on it.

Here is his Checkpoint with the 32c Conti GP500s.





Slap the 40c gravel tyres back on to this toughly built alloy bike, and you can easily do the Himalayan passes of Ladakh on it as well. The whole game is in the geometry and gearing (so low that initially a roadie rider like him was spinning ridiculously till he got the hang of its sweet spot and how to play with the range).

With 46/30 is the front and 11-34 at the back, which can go as low as 11-36, effectively you have gearing as high and as low as a 3 ring road crank hybrid.

Cheers, Doc

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Ah okay. I guess my experience comes from different situations. I had the Madone and Domane to ride on open roads (no conditions) - did a few kms on a mix of grass trail and paved roads (with craters included).

Same was the case for Synapse (different shop) - took it around Chicago downtown on a mix of elevations and mostly cemented roads. More than looks, the Colnago made the deal itself on a similar ~4 km ride. Did it twice just to make sure.

That’s one luxury in the US; and you can even return if you don’t like the bike. Here the return option is limited to Decathlon bikes. At least Trek has a good compound to ride and check, whereas at some other brands’ showrooms here, the only option is to sit and do a couple of meters on the pavement in front of the shop (e.g., Giant, Felt, Scott etc.)

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Agree with @doc on the look aspect once you finalize the bike. My vote - go for the one that stands out. Years later the 'different' frame/bike color will be significantly relevant

Yes, completely agree, the look and feel is important, especially that I prefer to have bikes, cars, all in stock form

Originally Posted by ebonho

The Checkpoint actually transforms in its whole feel and dynamics with thinner road slicks.

My friend now has Continental GP5000s on them and very easily managed an average speed of 25 kmph over the 200 on it.

This is the exact color bike I checked in the showroom. And for someone who can happily hit the gravel the chunky tyres make sense; I am someone who try to avoid gravel surfaces wherever possible. My wife, on the contrary doesn’t mind gravel paths. She actually feels that she would have been better off on a Dual Sport 2/3 rather than her current FX2.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Here is his Checkpoint with the 32c Conti GP500s.

Looks neat! But I find the Checkpoint and Domane quite identical in stance and geometry; the Checkpoint with 32c road slicks must be almost the Domane.

[prabuddhadg]

Originally Posted by ebonho

You Tube videos on cycles and cycling (and stand up comedians and satirists in India) have been my find of the pandemic. I spend a lot more time now on you tube than on the TV.

If and when you find a nice light classic steel road bike geometry rolling frame, you know whom to give a holler to!

Cheers, Doc

Hey Doc! Are you seriously looking for steel road bikes? There is this guy in Mumbai, Marc Bilimoria, who is also on the facebook group Bikes Zone Reborn Unofficial where we discuss bicycles generally. Marc has a large collection of steel road bikes, most of them unused. I was at one time, interested in classic steel bikes and Prabodh Keny, who is my go to guy for all bike parts, had shared about a dozen bike frame photos.

You might consider getting in touch with Marc to find out if he is looking to sell one of his frames/ bikes.

I myself have gone the custom frame route simply because I wanted modern steel and also mudguards and fatter tires as well as some variation in trail etc. However, if you are looking for 25-28mm tire clearance, these frames should work beautifully.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Looks neat! But I find the Checkpoint and Domane quite identical in stance and geometry; the Checkpoint with 32c road slicks must be almost the Domane.

Possible, but the drivetrain on the Domane is the road series whereas the Checkpoint has the completely new GRX (where it's not only the gearing but a lot else that's different - derailleurs, clutch, levers, brakes).

Originally Posted by prabuddhadg

Hey Doc! Are you seriously looking for steel road bikes? There is this guy in Mumbai, Marc Bilimoria, who is also on the facebook group Bikes Zone Reborn Unofficial where we discuss bicycles generally. Marc has a large collection of steel road bikes, most of them unused. I was at one time, interested in classic steel bikes and Prabodh Keny, who is my go to guy for all bike parts, had shared about a dozen bike frame photos.

You might consider getting in touch with Marc to find out if he is looking to sell one of his frames/ bikes.

I myself have gone the custom frame route simply because I wanted modern steel and also mudguards and fatter tires as well as some variation in trail etc. However, if you are looking for 25-28mm tire clearance, these frames should work beautifully.

Yes bro. I've heard of him. But I seriously could (would) not afford him. I'm more a Ringoism Eric style of biker. Marc and his beautiful paint job ornate lugged beauties are pieces of art to hang up on a nice wall with mood lighting. Lol

Ditto for custom guys like Psynyde, Scolarian, and another custom steel maker in Hyderabad I forget the name of.

Kolsa galli, junna bazaar, chor bazaar, OLX, garage/backyard/terrace finds, pandemic chaddi hanger bikes, and donor rolling frames are my main target areas.

Cheers, Doc

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Possible, and another custom steel maker in Hyderabad I forget the name of.

ASTR bikes is the name. Designed and built in Taiwan.

https://youtu.be/12IADsz6tMU

If you happen to visit Hyderabad, you can directly buy it from 'The Bike Affair' store or if you stay remote, you can always visit the below website and contact them for online delivery.

https://thebikeaffair.com/

Their contact number: +91 7207215530

Cheers, Doc