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Old 6th July 2013, 11:25   #331
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Ever since I was exposed to the used car market in my college days, I have been going around checking cars without thought of buying.....
Mayankk this has been very informative!
I have a question. I would like to know if the same applies to 'Premium' dealers such as the ones who deal in used M-Bs, Audis and BMWs, Those Ads I see in the back of AC with advertised Porsches etc.? Specifically the ODO tampering?
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Old 6th July 2013, 11:27   #332
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Originally Posted by sinharishi View Post
How can a dealer get the NOC , without the owner of the car being involved?
Why did MARUTI did not inform me about the NOC?
Dealer or for that matter anyone can get an NOC if they know the right person to bribe. And being dealers, they have good contacts in RTOs and with agents.

Maruti should have. Usually True Value guys do not touch vehicles with an out of state registration because it is hard for them to resell such a car.
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Old 6th July 2013, 11:35   #333
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Also things to ponder are :

- Are you willing to buy from an honest owner
- Are you willing to buy if he shares all the history
- Are you willing to buy if its in immaculate condition
- Are you willing to buy if he provides all the service records

look below..

if he asks for 50k-100k more because of the above!!

I bet most buyers will quote that the xxxx model is available at xxx price with the dealer so why more here. Its a competitive market and price is crucial.
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Old 6th July 2013, 11:43   #334
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

I have had a pretty good experience with Maruti True Value.
When I went there to buy my Spark two years back I was knowing I'm paying a higher price but then I also knew that the dealer had replaced all tyres, all worn out parts and complete servicing done.

Apart from 3 regular services and a failed crank sensor I haven't had to incur any other expenses in these 26 months.

Even a couple of months back I went there again to check out some cars and liked an Octavia TDi but the sales guy honestly told me not to go for it since the maintenance would be quite high and told me to consider cars like City or Dzire.

I know all these dealers are out there to make money and many of these cars are not genuine. I even saw a dealer converting a Swift LXi to VXi by adding wheel caps, power windows, fog lamps and the blacked A and B pillars and also changed the monograms.
The "aam" buyer would not be able to gauge these aftermarket mods and will happily buy the so called VXi.
If you have a close eye its pretty easy to differentiate between such cars. Now the actual VXI comes with power window switches integrated in the door armrest but in the case of aftermarket fitment these switches are fitted at a slightly different location.

Also, rare cars have a slightly bigger risk involved compared to common cars like Civic etc.
But then again not all these cars are bad ones. If you have some patience and are willing to look around for some time then a great deal could be found!
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Old 6th July 2013, 11:47   #335
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Buy direct from seller, and sell directly to buyer is what I personally prefer. Of course Maruti True value is a good idea for buying a car, but selling it to them means you will be paid less. If our car is in a good condition, buyers will just flock. For our omni, I asked this mechanic opposite my house what value it will fetch, and he had a line of buyers ready to take it with all due formalities. They were ready to pay more than what true value had quoted and the van was sold and transferred by the buyer in just around ten days.

You will not believe this experience with the used car setups - A few years back one of my aunt was new to driving so she brought a used Maruti 800(carb) from a used car dealer to master skills and then move on to a new one. This being old had only 75k kms on the ODO which was fishy. It did come with its own share of niggles like some electricals not working, some creaks and sounds. All was rectified with a service at MASS. After around three months of usage, problems just increased in all degrees and hence she sold the car to the same dealer and he promised a good deal.

There was a used car seller right behind my residence. As my aunt was still not fine with driving, she wanted another used car. My father enquired in the place behind my house that he wanted a used car with such and such budget and requirement. In a day, this fellow calls up my dad and tells there is a very well maintained, lady driven M800 that has just 45k clicks on the odo and is in pristine condition. He told he would get the car abd called my dad to drop in. As the mileage was different, we didn't doubt what was going to happen later. My aunt too came home and I could see the car from my backyard. It was similar to my aunts car.

Once we went there, we were surprised to see the same M800 that my aunt had sold to the dealer. We were doing nothing but The guy there did not realise what was happening. It was the same car my aunt had sold, with ODO tampered by 30k kms, and a premium put to it. Moreover it was termed as a car in pristine condition and well maintained. Eventually she got a new alto for herself and our chances with used car dealers ended that day.

Having a garage right opposite my house, I come across many cars from nearby used car outlets that come here for various jobs. So I am pretty sure none of such cars are really good to buy ones. Even if we sell a well maintained car, they will make it better and sell it to fetch more money. Thats the basic idea.
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Old 6th July 2013, 12:03   #336
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

In Apr 2005, I tried to sell my 21 month old Santro Xing AT since I didn't have extra parking spot. Maruti True Value offered me 1.9L for it, their excuse was "Nobody wants AT saar". Then I tried to find out whether I buy a Santro Xing AT, and I got no quotes below 4L, because "It is very rare saar!". I decided never to deal with used car people after that.

BTW, I finally sold the same Santro AT in 2011, for 1.8L !!
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Old 6th July 2013, 15:26   #337
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

I know about Maruti True value and its scam. When we looking to exchange our 13 yr old 82k kms run M800, we were quoted 40-50K max from 3 different dealers in our city. Finally we sold it to an individual for 70k and he is very happy with the car.

On another occasion, I visited a True value with a friend of mine and we were looking at a Dzire ZDi. It was in 'pristine' condition and had run just 30k kms in 3 yrs. They were quoting 6.5L for it and my friend was interested. Now a person known to me works in this dealership. When I called him and asked about the history of the car, he said it was a TD vehicle. It had done more than 1L kms and was involved in a couple of accidents. Now they had removed the TD stickers, dented and painted it, reduced the ODO and put in an attractive sticker price.
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Old 6th July 2013, 15:28   #338
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Ever since I was exposed to the used car market in my college days, I have been going around checking cars without thought of buying.
I agree with your observations on used car dealers. But then that is an inherent characteristics of the used car market eco-system. The professionally managed used car dealers like Maruti True Value, Carnation are slowly improving the whole process. Though dealerships are expected to be 100% genuine, I think the percentage of customers who had been victimized could be a very minimal. I am not defending those who dealing in used cars. The odometer tampering might have done by the actual owners and it could have passed the evaluation process due to manual error. Anyways an interesting thread with lots of scope for discussion.

Originally Posted by mohandasnikhil View Post
While you do have some very valid points, I do think that you are taking a very cynical and over generalized view on the Dealer's actions.
I do personally feel that the Indian Used Car market is still not very matured, and residual values of cars being extremely low.
Exactly. The road condition is so pathetic even a vehicle in Indian roads with less than 10K on odometer will look like a vehicle which has crossed 50K mark. Also the majority of the vehicle owners are least bothered about the up keeping vehicles. Finally those vehicles will land in used car market and some one who are looking for used car will be falling prey.
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Old 6th July 2013, 15:39   #339
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Default Re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Sorry, but I disagree with the general apprehension against dealers.

Let me make one thing very clear : You can get good cars from bad dealers, and bad cars from good dealers. Remember, at the end of the day, the dealer has had little to do with the car's ownership & how it was driven / maintained.

I've found some of the best cars (my 4000 kms run City Vtec and 7000 kms Civic) from dealers and seen some rotten cars from private sellers. Again, how good a used car is depends on its previous owner's attitude toward upkeep, not who is selling it.

But yes, I will agree that you will generally fetch a higher price selling your car directly.
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Old 6th July 2013, 18:02   #340
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Default Re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Well, its very tough to sell car to an individual directly. The number of calls you get and the profile of people who come to visit and the way they drive your baby swings your emotions from pukish to condescending to anger to God knows what! Its a very painful activity especially if you are into a job & at the mercy of your Boss. Sell to a dealer, stick to a price, exploit some contacts (like I used my Banker who does Auto Finance as part of his job) and you get a price close enough to desired, obviously not the best! So I accept the marginal loss as the cost of so much inconvenience and trouble saved.

When it comes to buying, I simply don't trust used cars. I sacrifice my desire, give up my dream, come down 2 notches of the car category but buy a new car only. I think every one can do that unless one is buying a Nano or a 800 wherein stepping down a category would put you on a 2W. I don't believe in the temptation to force-fit a brand/category I cant afford into my budget by buying a car few yrs old. The thought that some one would have sped it over rocks like a battle tank some time, screwed in the back seat in a parking with AC On all afternoon, drunk in front seat, smoked all the way, infants would have pee'ed on seats, driven the car with Holi colour all over you, held the wheel after digging the nose inside out, stopped on the highway to ease and got back to the seat (obviously there's no water all the time), sneeze sprayed all over the roof & dash during an ugly winter cold - it simply makes me feel pukish. No amount of dry cleaning & inside restoration can remove all that. If you got a forensic expert, even after 2 yrs of purchase you will find traces (DNA samples) of the previous owner!
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Old 6th July 2013, 18:02   #341
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Wonder how Dealers tamper with odometer readings, now a days you have digital odometers in almost all new generation cars
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Old 6th July 2013, 18:11   #342
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Default Re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Originally Posted by TheARUN View Post
Wonder how Dealers tamper with odometer readings, now a days you have digital odometers in almost all new generation cars
The chip inside the digital odometer which holds the kms data can be taken out and reprogrammed (& thus putting in new kms data by the figure they want to replace) by most such fraudsters. Its not difficult anymore, which was once thought to be tamper proof.

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Old 6th July 2013, 18:24   #343
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Default Re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

If I were to buy a pre-owned car, my choice in Chennai will be as follows:

1) Direct from owners, if they are known to me or I have references.

2) T.S.Mahalingam & Sons. AFAIK the best used car dealers in town.

3) Maruti True Value.

No.2 & 3 have never been known to indulge in odo meter tampering. Not to my knowledge.
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Old 6th July 2013, 22:28   #344
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Default Re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Generalizing about all dealers being bad, just because Delhi has more than its fair share of unscrupulous ones, is not justified.

I've seen plenty of individuals who are not car dealers by profession, selling cars that have the "dealer finish" treatment done to them. The FNG does that for the owner (including the clocking) for paltry money.

OTOH, a car that a friend & BHPian bought was one that I have seen in one of the best conditions for a pre-owned vehicle, and at an unbelievably low price; this was sourced through a dealer whom I have known for years and bought multiple cars from.

I would say: if you know your cars, buying from an individual or from a dealer makes no difference. If you can't recognize a lemon if you were to get run over by it, either trust a big dealer like Maruti True Value or Mahindra First Choice, or find a friend who knows the nuts and bolts - and drag him from car to car, irrespective of whether a dealer-sale or an individual sale.
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Old 6th July 2013, 22:43   #345
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I think the buying public would like to be informed of the correct statistics when they go for a used vehicle.
See, we are aware, so we can check for discrepancies, and faults. While I was checking out cars this past week, I ran into people who did not even know how to check the tyres. He was being palmed off a shoddy baleno with 22k on the clock. Imagine.
The car screamed punishment, but it was being guaranteed "genuine"!!
I have just closed on a Tucson I saw with a dealer, it was a park and sell. I managed to get hold if the owner, and dealt with him. I knew it was clocked back, and had it thoroughly checked inside and out. My mechanic gave the go ahead too. Since I dealt with the owner, I got to test it on my choice of road.
He gladly reduced the price by the amount that the car would require in some repairs, and I got it at a price which the dealer told me the supposed owner was not willing to consider. I spoke with the supposed owner too, and this was not the same gent.

So all I can say is, if you're confident that you can gauge the car and it's problems correctly, do indulge, but if not, you're guaranteed to be gypped. Which,ithink, is quite unfair, on the buyer.
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