2 Subs - Dual Mono or Stereo - "Kb ka dB"

kb100 · 5th June 2006, 23:02

WOW... SAM...THAT brought tears to my eyes!!

philipreji · 5th June 2006, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

My suggestion is let's all wait for a while till Navin dives in head-first with some Linkwitz-Riley, Bessels and some Butterworth for good measure. I somehow have a feeling he's going to enjoy this one.

Hi guys Linkwitz-Riley (L-R) is great for home audio. I recently made a L-R 3 way active crossover (24 dB/Oct) for the home stereo and it sounds great. The advantage is very low intermodulation distortion, so that even crappy speakers will sound decent. To test this I used the cheapest speakers I could find from SP road (don't laugh) woofer - Rs.125, midrange - Rs.20, tweeter - Rs.40. Believe me its real VFM. I tried with expensive speakers too, and the output is much better than what one gets from the usual passive cross-over variety amps. My bass amp is a P3A (read from www.sound.westhost.com about this fantastic discrete amp), and the midrange and high amps are TDA 2030A ICs. Now I'm planning a DIY audio system for my car too.
cheers
Reji

low_bass_makker · 5th June 2006, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

hmmm.... Honestly LBM, I mean you no ill-will, but you have to understand the first role of a forum, there's no place for an ego here.

I understand you mean well and love audio greatly. There are a lot of people here that love audio too, as much as you do. Of these people, a few are more knowledgeable that the others, simply because it is their business, or others because it is their eccentricity and they have years of that behind them.
You know what I do for a living don't you, my friend? And yet i learn from everyone here, without trying to prove that what i feel is right.

This is audio, LBM, there is no right or wrong. It's a matter of taste and there's no accounting for taste is there? So really, I agree with you in priniciple and so does B&T and we are happy to not entirely agree with Autophile and Gunbir and we're all cool with it.

There will always be an opinion that will differ with yours. Enjoy it. It's no fun if everyone thinks the way you do.

I meant this as good advice and mean no offense to you. In fact I like your enthusiasm, sometimes.

Thanks man for the advice. It felt like a big brother to me. It has been while in this forum for me and I seen the regularer here and how they interact with each other. Again thanks man for corrrect man I would try to avoid this to happen again........................

gunbir · 6th June 2006, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

and we are happy to not entirely agree with Autophile and Gunbir and we're all cool with it.

Eggjacktly.... LBM chill na yaar... Like Sam said, there's no right or wrong... its just a bunch of opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own.

BTW folks, all this golmol talk about big egos... please make sure you ALWAYS refer to me. I have a BIG EGO and I'm proud of it... In Delhi its been made mandatory by the govt... hehehehe All Delhites are supposed to have one.

kb100 · 6th June 2006, 10:09

OKs.. now that everything has been LAID to rest can we pls get back to the subject of slopes and frequencies??

Autophile · 6th June 2006, 10:33

[quote=philipreji]
In the same vein, it is easy to understand why the high frequency cut-off of hi-fi amps are often extended upto 100 kHz or more. Suppose our hearing limit is 20 kHz. But a 20 kHz note from an instrument will definitely contain 40 kHz, 60 kHz etc, in different amounts. A faithful amp should reproduce these frequencies too: otherwise it is distortion (whether this distortion can be "heard" or not is a subject vast enough for another never-ending thread

)

Right Reji, a lot of instruments decay can surpass 20Khz easily and if that is reproduces well, adds to listening pleasure hence its good to have supertweeters and high bandwidth amplifiers.

navin · 6th June 2006, 12:18

Geez, why all this noise!

1. Crossover slopes need not be in multiples of 6db/octave. Why they need not be linear either.
2. Bessel, Chebeyschev, Thomson, Lamb, Butterworth, L-R etc..all have about the same slope the difference lie is phase respoonse, overshoot/ripple, etc... google and you will find
http://ece-www.colorado.edu/~ecen226...lterSlides.pdf
3. If you feel you need Stereo Subs in your car so be it if you prefer the few db more SPL mono subs offer that's cool too. One idea that has some to me from all this is to do try the following:
Use 2 smaller stereo subs (6.5"in my case but a 8" could also work) and use a single 12" mono sub.

Many years ago when I could occupy the whole trunk of my car with speakers and get away with it (no wife, no kids, no long driving trips or bags to ferry to/from the airport) my rear speakers were 8" midbasses mated to 3 10" subs. The 10" were mono and the 8" in stereo. Since the woofers only operated below 45Hz and were in a TL (great attack and decay) i did not feel the lack of stereo image. Now this install was not done conciously. It came about based on the components i had (the 8" rears for example were Tannoy dual concentric drivers got from a friend).

low_bass_makker · 6th June 2006, 12:27

I think the Head Master is here so Teachers gather around.........................

gunbir · 6th June 2006, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

One idea that has some to me from all this is to do try the following: Use 2 smaller stereo subs (6.5"in my case but a 8" could also work) and use a single 12" mono sub.

If you remember in the Innova Install I put up a while back, we had 2x iDQ8 subs in the front and an iDQ15 in the rear. Works well...

kb100 · 6th June 2006, 12:48

MY TWO IDQ 10's HAVE LANDED

... along with some

exotic stuff!

Thanks Gunbir & JB...

Now the wait begins...................

navin · 6th June 2006, 12:52

OT RANT: Damn Net service, Tata, Airtel, Hathway are all down. CDMA zindabad!

Am I the "Head Master"? Dont Head Masters have Gurus too? :-)

a) The Noise Level on this thread was a bit high still I did not moderate becuase (i) my NET was down and (ii) I prefer to re-direct all this energy than stamp it out. However please keep the personal stuff down guys ok? I can't run interference for you guys all the time.

b) All our cars are different. All our needs are different too (If I had my Octy as a single man I might have gone the way of the 21" woofer in the "Autopsyched" car). One man's goose is another man's gander (I am sure Sam, B&T and co will have a witty comment on this).

As a contributor to these forums I find it easier to share what I do or did or built than offer specific advice as I expect most here to be smarter than me and hence take my expereinces and build something better.

gunbir · 6th June 2006, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

One man's goose is another man's gander (I am sure Sam, B&T and co will have a witty comment on this).

OK I will attempt one till Sam and B&T get here...

What do you get when you cross a Goose and a Gander.... You get Gandoose... and you can spot quite a few driving on our roads...

Sam Kapasi · 6th June 2006, 13:05

Kya yaar gunbir, bina baat ke gander mat maar.

gunbir · 6th June 2006, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb100

MY TWO IDQ 10's HAVE LANDED ... along with some

exotic stuff! Thanks Gunbir & JB... Now the wait begins...................

What exotic stuff man... Ahh we had a belly dancer sitting around the office... did we accidentally send her to you???

Call me when able...

navin · 6th June 2006, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

If you remember in the Innova Install I put up a while back, we had 2x iDQ8 subs in the front and an iDQ15 in the rear. Works well...

I intend to run the 2 6.5" along side the rear components but under the fiber deck and install the 12" on the left side of teh trunk. The right side has a fuel tank. The object is to have room for 2 30" bags. for our trips.

5th June 2006, 23:02	#121
kb100 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangy Boy! Posts: 1,556 Thanked: 21 Times	WOW... SAM...THAT brought tears to my eyes!!
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 10:09	#125
kb100 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangy Boy! Posts: 1,556 Thanked: 21 Times	OKs.. now that everything has been LAID to rest can we pls get back to the subject of slopes and frequencies??
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 10:33	#126
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	[quote=philipreji] In the same vein, it is easy to understand why the high frequency cut-off of hi-fi amps are often extended upto 100 kHz or more. Suppose our hearing limit is 20 kHz. But a 20 kHz note from an instrument will definitely contain 40 kHz, 60 kHz etc, in different amounts. A faithful amp should reproduce these frequencies too: otherwise it is distortion (whether this distortion can be "heard" or not is a subject vast enough for another never-ending thread ) Right Reji, a lot of instruments decay can surpass 20Khz easily and if that is reproduces well, adds to listening pleasure hence its good to have supertweeters and high bandwidth amplifiers.
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 12:18	#127
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,513 Times	Geez, why all this noise! 1. Crossover slopes need not be in multiples of 6db/octave. Why they need not be linear either. 2. Bessel, Chebeyschev, Thomson, Lamb, Butterworth, L-R etc..all have about the same slope the difference lie is phase respoonse, overshoot/ripple, etc... google and you will find http://ece-www.colorado.edu/~ecen226...lterSlides.pdf 3. If you feel you need Stereo Subs in your car so be it if you prefer the few db more SPL mono subs offer that's cool too. One idea that has some to me from all this is to do try the following: Use 2 smaller stereo subs (6.5"in my case but a 8" could also work) and use a single 12" mono sub. Many years ago when I could occupy the whole trunk of my car with speakers and get away with it (no wife, no kids, no long driving trips or bags to ferry to/from the airport) my rear speakers were 8" midbasses mated to 3 10" subs. The 10" were mono and the 8" in stereo. Since the woofers only operated below 45Hz and were in a TL (great attack and decay) i did not feel the lack of stereo image. Now this install was not done conciously. It came about based on the components i had (the 8" rears for example were Tannoy dual concentric drivers got from a friend). Last edited by navin : 6th June 2006 at 12:38.
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 12:27	#128
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	I think the Head Master is here so Teachers gather around.........................
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 12:48	#130
kb100 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangy Boy! Posts: 1,556 Thanked: 21 Times	MY TWO IDQ 10's HAVE LANDED ... along with some exotic stuff! Thanks Gunbir & JB... Now the wait begins...................
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 12:52	#131
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,513 Times	OT RANT: Damn Net service, Tata, Airtel, Hathway are all down. CDMA zindabad! Am I the "Head Master"? Dont Head Masters have Gurus too? :-) a) The Noise Level on this thread was a bit high still I did not moderate becuase (i) my NET was down and (ii) I prefer to re-direct all this energy than stamp it out. However please keep the personal stuff down guys ok? I can't run interference for you guys all the time. b) All our cars are different. All our needs are different too (If I had my Octy as a single man I might have gone the way of the 21" woofer in the "Autopsyched" car). One man's goose is another man's gander (I am sure Sam, B&T and co will have a witty comment on this). As a contributor to these forums I find it easier to share what I do or did or built than offer specific advice as I expect most here to be smarter than me and hence take my expereinces and build something better.
	() Thanks

6th June 2006, 13:05	#133
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 7,000 Thanked: 2,451 Times View My Garage	Kya yaar gunbir, bina baat ke gander mat maar.
	() Thanks