[Technocrat]

Congrats for another monster equipment Frankie

Btw this one wasnt discussed so when & how did it came into the picture?

[frankmehta]

Originally Posted by greenh0rn

Frank this is really porn! Great choice dude, this is mouthwatering stuff!!! Congratulations and look forward to my Bombay visit in October even more now!!

thank you man. I will surely look forward to meeting you. Do take some time off and meet us if possible.

Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88

Lovely . It is damn b'ful frank.

Why do i see another set of stars in the mono/2 channel part of the signature frank?

You guys can never stick to one set of equipment. (Look who's talking)

keep watching this space for details. GAS GAS till the GAS gets over!

Originally Posted by VOiLA

Congratulations Doc ! Enjoy !

cheers!

Originally Posted by pranava999

wELL AHEM GUESS KUDOS ARE IN ORDER!

someone else need to be congratulated too

Originally Posted by nitrous

Dang!
I actually made this out with the teaser pic. But, with JBL not being an "EsshQue" brand on here, I thought it would be something else.

Here's a health tip:
When you're lifting something heavy from the ground, bend your knees and the thigh muscles to lift it.
Its called "dead lifting".
Bending your upper body to lift a heavy object stresses the lower back. Everyone knows how dangerous it is.

thanks for that health tip. but knowing my weight, if i practise this, I might just look like a Sumo wrestler gearing up for a fight


JBL, as a brand cannot be classified into SQ or SPL or SQPL. Many have such prejudices or misconceptions etc on this forum too.

THIS is exactly the reason why I didn't mention this sub here. My aspirations to buy it would have been watered down with people saying bad things about the brand (only because their entry level subs are slightly boomy: but that sells, in bucketloads. Ask SAM.)
India is a large market for them, and they, as a brand have a large repertoire of products catering to the masses, as well as the classes

The GTi is one of the best subs produced, EVER. And there are a hundred testimonials I can produce, that speak so highly of the GTi subs, that they even compare the Differential Drive system to that of the Servo controlled subs from Velodyne that cost about $3000 (when introduced, now they are no longer in production).
It's all about the product, and not the brand.

I am sure JBL has done a lot of R&D, and hired PRO POWER to do their flagship subwoofer. Mind blowing stuff has been written about this deadly combination.
Waiting to hear it myself.

Originally Posted by nitinralli

That's Sweet man. Looks really nice. Just waiting what all next is in line to compliment this woofer?
What about Comps?? Are you gonna keep the same Lucci's or planning to buy a new stuff (like Rainbow)?

the comps stay. The luccies will get a second lease of life, with new tweeter positions. i am sure they will sound much better in these doors.

Originally Posted by naughty001

i had the W15GTI mk2 - also the 60th anniversary edition, i think you will really enjoy this subwoofer. Mine to me was the best sounding subwoofer ive ever heard but the problem for me was that in my current car it was too heavy (30 kilo's installed in the enclosure)

but congratulations on a wonderful purchase and i hope that you enjoy it

HMMMMMM ... maybe a BPX2200.1 monoblock.

haha just kidding but i was reading Franks thread at DIYMA and i understand his concerns about power at the impedance levels of the subwoofer and eventhough the genesis is a monster amplifier you do get some amplifiers that provide as much quality with a bit more power

hmmm, so there WAS one WxxGTi owner. Interesting! I am sure I will enjoy the subwoofer as much as you did.
And about the mono, YES, you are thinking along the right lines. The power from the Genesis (about 480W) was surely enough, but I am now suffering from this disease called Meganomaly. I want the best of everything, and the poor GTi must not be starved of any power. That's my decision ;-)

Originally Posted by m4ugr8

Congrats Frank, The sub looks good, Waiting to see what other equipment is upgraded before the Car even arrives

one more. Wait and watch.

Originally Posted by nitinralli

Hey Frank, what about the Genisis Amp? are you gonna sell that now since you have the JBL Sub?? If so let me know.

it's been 'gifted' to a friend. He will mention it here if he wants.

Originally Posted by Flying Bong

Hey Frank

Congrats on the GTI! This is one of the few subs that I'm actually keen to listen to. Have read that they sound insane in IB...also allows one to show off the motor & basket

thank you sire. I have replied to your PM.

ok here's the thing.



so according to Pro Power, the sub must not be placed in IB configuration. I have read on many forums online, but no one recommends the IB config for this sub.

Originally Posted by nitrous

This is a dual 6-ohm sub?

Yes, it's a dual 6 ohm sub that can be powered at either 12, 3 or 1.5 ohms.

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

Yup boy. Dual 6 ohms. He's probably going to run it at 3 ohms.

Yes, most probably it will be 3 ohms.

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Congrats for another monster equipment Frankie

Btw this one wasnt discussed so when & how did it came into the picture?

Check my reply to Nitrous anna. Somethings are better left for the end. I was sure this sub would surprise everyone, even though I was contemplating this subwoofer since a long time.

[navin]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

JBL, as a brand cannot be classified into SQ or SPL or SQPL. Many have such prejudices or misconceptions etc on this forum too.

Frank I think most people who know enough will not classify JBL. JBL makes products that can be postively SQ, Pro, and a lot of stuff for the 'masses'.

Most people will have run into a wide variety of JBL equipment from the venerable D130 to the 2245J/2235J/2226J to the 'Century' and it's siblings and more.

There was a time when 8/10 studios in NYC (as reported in a MIX magazine advert at the time) used JBL-UREI combos for monitoring or for atleast one montioring booth (Record Plant and Electric Lady had more than 1 booth). The JBL-UREI 800 series (811/813/815/etc.) also sold by the bucketloads - these by the way were moddled on the Altec (another company founded by James B. L.) 604. At one time 3 products Altec's 604/511, JBL-UREI'ws 811/813/815 and JBL 4350/4343/4315 competed with each other in the same market. Funny all three products could trace their existance (the UREI were not designed by James B L or any of it's employees) to James B. L. and co.

[Flying Bong]

Originally Posted by frankmehta

thank you sire. I have replied to your PM.


so according to Pro Power, the sub must not be placed in IB configuration. I have read on many forums online, but no one recommends the IB config for this sub.

Thanks mate, saw the reply.

About info on forums, you could read the first post here....there are more threads on that forum but I was too lazy to search them out

DIY Mobile Audio

Just my 2 cents worth on the attachment you posted - the PowerPro guys are not wrong really, but they only caution that the sub will handle less power in IB vis a vis inside an enclosure...well, this statement is true for ANY sub. In IB, a sub will anyway need lesser power to achieve full excursion (gurus, please correct me if I'm wrong) so I dont see that as a big issue unless you enjoy taking risks with extra amp power

The statement does not indicate whether SQ will be better or worse in IB....from what I've read, suitability for IB has more to do with TS parameters, especially Qts which seems suitably high in the case of the WGTI.

Anyway, proof of the pudding is in the eating - hope I get a chance to listen and find out some day.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Flying Bong

In IB, a sub will anyway need lesser power to achieve full excursion (gurus, please correct me if I'm wrong) so I dont see that as a big issue unless you enjoy taking risks with extra amp power

The statement does not indicate whether SQ will be better or worse in IB....from what I've read, suitability for IB has more to do with TS parameters, especially Qts which seems suitably high in the case of the WGTI.

Yes all subs are more easily driven to max excursion in IB compared to sealed.

However some subs are more suspetible to be driven to damage in IB. I am given to understand (talking to some other car audio guys) that the JBL is not very suspetible and can handle quite a bit of abuse as can be seen in the video below

YouTube - JBL Gti W12

that said the place I would start would be here.
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Bo...2GTi_rev_f.pdf

I would consider the 1 cu. f.t sealed and 2.2 cu. ft. ported options keeping ni mid that these volumes are net volumes and the volume required by the woofer also has to be considered.

There is however NO reason why an IB install cannot sound just as good as a ported/sealed box. One just need to be more careful about the tuning.

hmmm, so there WAS one WxxGTi owner. Interesting! I am sure I will enjoy the subwoofer as much as you did.
And about the mono, YES, you are thinking along the right lines. The power from the Genesis (about 480W) was surely enough, but I am now suffering from this disease called Meganomaly. I want the best of everything, and the poor GTi must not be starved of any power. That's my decision ;-)

i am from South Africa hence i suppose you are probably the birst TBHPian in your area to get the sub - when people question the credentials of the sub, im usre you can remind them that Gary Biggs who won 7 world titles won his last three with JBL equipment and that included three "best of show" trophies. Gary was using a set of JBL 660GTI components as well as a W10GTI upfront and in the dash when in competiton mode but a pair of W15GTI in the boot of his Buick Grand Regal when in "show mode"

so yeah the GTI subs are tried and tested in the competitive SQ arena and account for a few world titles and even more when you take Mark Eldridges Toyota forerunner into account as well as Alma Gates foray into the world of SQ but i think that Alma used the power series though

personally i think the JBL was more musical than most other subs ive had and that includes a long list of JL audios and even a morel ultimo 12". I was forced to sell it because i wanted the cash to spend toward other goodies ie my current Dynaudio set of components

so according to Pro Power, the sub must not be placed in IB configuration. I have read on many forums online, but no one recommends the IB config for this sub.

actually sir on most forums online ive heard that the GTI series do like IB however though most people use the W15GTI in IB - heres a picture of one such typical IB install



this was a pair of W15GTI in a large sedan so ive also heard that they are great in IB. I couldnt test that out when i had mine since i have a hatchback car and IB doesnt work as good in a hatchback

however no need to take my word for it - heres a thread over at DIYMA over the exact issue at hand

Anyone done a Jbl Gti IB or heard one? - DIY Mobile Audio

nevertheless if you are not confident of doing it i would then instead build an enclosure but use the sub inverted, check my thread entitled "Hi From South Africa" in the "sound off show off" section for an idea on how to do that. Inverting the sub causes no ill effects besides for the weight distribution being a bit lopsided and thats merely because these subs are heavy as you have noticed

you might need to play around with the phase though because when you invert you are now listening to the rear wave which is 180 degrees out of phase to the front wave but sometimes that is what works better and i experiment with phase in every sub i have, so it might work fantastically well when out of phase or you might need to reverse the polarity on the wiring to get it back in phase but try both and see which sounds closer to your aims (in phase will definitely give more output - whilst out of phase could sometimes sound smoother with less output but create more of an upfront illusion. this is vehicle dependent and every sub ive tried in my vehicle sounded better for SQ purposes when out of phase with the other speakers). It also has to do with absolute phase and relative phase which relate to the arrival time of the sound to your ear (which gets affected by distance of the sub away from you as well as pathlengths of the waveform) but lets not turn this into a huge technical discussion

the main thing is install and enjoy and i wish you every luck in that endeavour

[frankmehta]

exhaustive reply. And very elaborate and informative. Happy to have such helpful members on this forum. Cheers naughty. I cant explore IB since I will be feeding a CRAP load of power to the sub, so sealed will sound as good as it can, whereas the IB setup with a lot of power might make the sub do some crazy excursion and even damage the sub! (as is evident from my signature the Genesis is making a departure from the setup)

[frankmehta]

The Genesis Profile Sub Monoblock was a PURE beauty. Control over the subs, power delivery, quality of bass etc. were great. The amp looked good, didn't eat up a lot of current, and was lightweight and small in dimensions. In all, it was a PERFECT monoblock.... For the 2 luccent subs, that is.

After much deliberation (5 minutes), I made a decision.
JBL W12GTi is pretty much one of the best subs I will be playing in this car (ever). The best of subs needs best power.

[When I mean BEST, I don't mean the sub will be powered by a direct electrical line from the Brihanmumbai Electric Supply and Transport Undertaking (B.E.S.T)]



The JBL W12GTi has been rated conservatively @ 700W of RMS power. The quirky part about these subs is that they have Dual 6-ohm differential drivers. Which in layman's terms is, that it is a 6 ohm DVC. Hence, if wired in parallel, it would be imposing a load of 3 ohms on the amplifier in question. This would make the Genesis P1 spew out [Power @ 4 ohm + 66% {Power @ 2 ohm - Power @ 4 ohm}] = 482W of RMS power.

I believe a sub should be given atleast it's rated amount of power, to utilize its full potential.

The Genesis amp was rated honestly, and while powering the Luccent subs @ 2 ohm, felt like it was pumping a decent amount of power to both.

BUT, the greed crept in again. The JBL W12GTi would have performed well with 480-odd watts of power, but I felt that it needed more.

This started a hunt for an new monoblock amplifier for the sub, and the search was abandoned within a few minutes, since I found EXACTLY what I was looking for.

Yeah, right. I ain't going to name it for you. YOU name it instead. I shall post a few teasers. The first person to guess this one will be gifted the Genesis Amplifier (ok, that's taking a joke too far)






Guys, it's time to play a game (again!) (you think I am going to reveal the name of the amp after typing such a long & painful post?)



Complete the sequence:

Pioneer Sub (300W) ---> Sony Amp (180W)

GZ Sub (350W) ---> Sony Amp (180W) replaced later by JBL Amp (284W)

Luccent Sub *2 (300W*2) ---> Genesis Monoblock (550W*1)

JBL W12GTi (800W) ---> ??????????????


CLUES:

Read the GUTS.

Come, on, let the gassing begin!

[Flying Bong]

Nikola Engineering = Arc Audio/Clarion DPX?

[DjNik]

Its The Clarion DPX11551

[frankmehta]

clever men, team-bhp has.

[Invinsible]

Almost any sub could be installed in IBConfig. I had experienced some Great IB installs in 90's. The low end extention is good. But it suffers from output. Upto 400-500 RMS they are happy, beyond that is risking the sub to bottom out. There are some rare subs designed just for IB purpose which take about 700-800 RMS. I agree with what naughty has mentioned regarding having the sub installed inverted and phase.
Frank am sure Gti will rock in enclosure anywhere between 1.25 to 1.5 cu.ft.

@Reg the pic, That's a great Robert Zeff design, G class amp, those DPX are highly on my list, need 4 of them for my next upgrade

[frankmehta]

Class G/H Amps. A combination of the efficiency of Class D amplifiers, and the musical control over the subwoofers like Class AB Amps ;-)

[shreyasma]

Originally Posted by DjNik

Its The Clarion DPX11551

Yea...see this

Clarion DPX11551 1550w amp gut pics. - DIY Mobile Audio

[frankmehta]

Nicola Engineering is headed by Robert Zeff. A very big brand in the manufacture of amplifier boards. They are OE suppliers for select models of select brands only, since their expertise involves expensive boards that cannot be fitted onto 'value for money' amplifiers.