Need Help in selecting Audio for Swift

Vivekphadnis · 25th September 2005, 00:58

Get either the Sony or Pioneer HU if you do not want to spend too much on the Alpine. Buy JBL/Blau/Alpine speakers.

I paid Rs 7400 for the 5750. The pre out has a voltage of about 2V I think. You see, it is not that 2V will not work. It is just that higher voltages are better as they will give better signal to noise ratio.

gunbir · 25th September 2005, 01:13

Front Comps - you need to use MDF spacer rings. Have a look at the Getz install thread... you'll get the idea. Spacer rings increase mounting depth available, provide a better mount for the speaker and isolate vibrations. The Hertz ESK165 comps costs Rs. 8170 and sounds very nice.

Subs - You have good taste, if you're looking for good integration between the sub and your comps, you are better off with an IB or sealed setup. Depending on your listening preferences, 50-200 watts will work well with an 8" or 10" sub. Remember, good subs sound linear and dont tend to peak or boom.

Amp - The blau at that price is way overpriced. Look for cheaper alternatives like the Pioneer GM-D515. See if you can find a good deal on the Alpine MRV-F450. Else, there are always 4 channel amps...

gunbir · 25th September 2005, 01:30

Heres how I rate them

1. Pioneer 7750 with 2.2V preout at Rs 9000 without B&W
2. Alpine 9830 with 4V Preout at Rs 13000 without B&W
3. Sony CDX-7710 with 4V preout for Rs 12000 with B&W
4. Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 with 2V Preamp at Rs 9500 with B&W
5. Pioneer 5750 2.2V preout for Rs 7000 without B&W
6. Sony CDX-5810 with 4V preout for Rs 8500 with B&W

Dont judge them by preout voltage only. If you use decent interconnects, you will be fine.

RobertClive · 25th September 2005, 01:45

Thanks gunbir, I was sure by using good connection cables, I could avoid lot of noise. But, I wanted to hear it from some experts. Given the scenario, Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 or Pioneer 7750 would suit better for me.

I am still keeping Blaupunkt Monterry as an option because of the orange backlit which will go well with the overall interiors of swift ZXi (orange backlit in climatic control, clock and odometer). Infact, Monterrey looks more like an OEM in swift.

gunbir · 25th September 2005, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertClive

I am still keeping Blaupunkt Monterry as an option because of the orange backlit which will go well with the overall interiors of swift ZXi (orange backlit in climatic control, clock and odometer). Infact, Monterrey looks more like an OEM in swift.

some things you should know... The Blau has a 80db S/N ratio while the Pioneer has 94db...

The Blau only has 2 preamp outputs, whereas you need 3 which the Pioneer has

The Blau only does MP3 while the Pioneer does MP3, WMA and even AAC

RobertClive · 25th September 2005, 03:16

Has anyone heard of Kenwood KSC-SW1 subwoofer. go to this link for more info: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mveHanf...=113KSCSW1#Tab

These subwoofers are exactly what I would want. I am not sure if I would get it in India.

RobertClive · 25th September 2005, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

some things you should know... The Blau has a 80db S/N ratio while the Pioneer has 94db...

The Blau only has 2 preamp outputs, whereas you need 3 which the Pioneer has

The Blau only does MP3 while the Pioneer does MP3, WMA and even AAC

Blaupunkt Monterrey has 4 channel preamp out plus sub out. But yes, the S/N ratio is 80db when compared to 94db in Pioneer 7750. Audio gurus, how bad is this? Technical explanation welcome. I really like to dig deeper.

mclaren1885 · 25th September 2005, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertClive

Blaupunkt Monterrey has 4 channel preamp out plus sub out. But yes, the S/N ratio is 80db when compared to 94db in Pioneer 7750. Audio gurus, how bad is this? Technical explanation welcome. I really like to dig deeper.

thats a simple answer to ur question:
S/N stands for Signal-to-noise ratio..
Its a measure of how well a cassette/cd deck silences background noise. A higher rating — in decibels (dB) — indicates less noise...so yes the pioneer deck will be more efficient in reducing the background noises than the blau..end result is better clarity from ur system..hope that helps..

RobertClive · 26th September 2005, 02:22

Do you know any trusted place in Bangalore where I can buy a pioneer set with confidence.

I always pictured pioneer as a yet another mass produced audio system. Had blaupunkt and alpine at the top of my list for sound quality. I just hope I am wrong. Since lots of people are favouring pioneer over blaupunkt, I would want to give it a try.

I would definitely rate reliability of Pioneer over Sony. I have cassette players (pioneer 8 years old for an old fiat and sony 20 months old in WagonR). I have never had any problem with pioneer till now. But sony already went through two services.

I also heard FM reception in Pioneer is not that good as Blaupunkt. Any of you had any experience on this?

navin · 26th September 2005, 10:41

"...and the silicon chip inside my head is switched to overload...."

Robert, I dont think you have enough space for a front sub in your swift. I did not in my Octy. But yes even a small front sub is sooo wonderful.

gunbir, does the spare wheel sub shown in post 11 nessiciate removing the sub to remove the spare wheel?

robert, often a 4 channel amp and a 2 channel amp will cost less than a 5 channel amp. 5 channel amps are really sold only in the EU. I wish they were cheaper. it wold simplify 90% of the installs I see.

SM, as much as I love Mahendra Palesha I cannot recomend his car subs (sumokoo) based on the reviews i had about 12-16 months ago. The bass is sluggish, one note and lumpy. MP claims he is building what the mass market demands. He may be right.

Robert, the VPC may fit with a MDF spcaer. Check with your installer. in my view the 606 e should be better than the Blau components. I have heard the Blau components at length and prefered JBL to them but then I prefered Alpine to JBL and would probably prefer Infinity to Alpine (not heard these 2 head to head). Caeveat: my compare was done in october 2004. Things change. one day i might just find the Hertz omps near me to give them a listen.

Robert, I'd take the 9830 over the others only becuase i like their sound. with good wires the pre out is not that important. 2V is plenty. 4V makes a little differece if you have a noisy enviroment. I have not compared the Pio to the Balupunkt as the Pios are not available with B&W. In all honesty the Blau with B&W is a good buy considering that the 5750 with B&W might be more than the Blaupunkt. I hear Autocop is selling Pio with B&W but at twice the grey market prices! if I had 10K I'd get the Blau and peace of mind (yes their quality has not been good of late but Mico offers excellent service). if I had 13K the 9830.

I hear that Panasonic is also going to distribute their Car Audio products in India. Might be 2-3 months though. I hear they've have set up their HQ in Madras (they were in Delhi before).

Those Kenwood woofers are over speced. I dont think the sound they deliver is the same as what their specs claim. specifications are widely abused by most if not all manufacturers. The only manufacturer whose specs I trust does not make car audio. they are called Krell.

A signal to noise ration of 80db for a Cd player is funny. If someoen gave me that I would ask for the weighting parameters used. (A, C, etc..). These make a significnat difference the to the specs and givne that today almost any CD player can make a 90db+ rating (A- weighted) I would wonder about Blaupunkts rating. I would call Mico and find out.

Pioneer's "supertuner xx" FM tuner is quite good. Better than alpine but what do we get on FM that is worth listening to. Mumbai has virtually no decent music on FM. It's so bad my wife's thinking of getting a soundspace radio.

lastly...5 cents to anyone (other than Mr. Rudra Sen) who can name the artist, album, song i have quoted above WITHOUT using a search engine. :-)

Selective · 26th September 2005, 12:07

I Installed Alpine 9830 with JBLs this week end. Even I was thinking of Blau Monterrary as it suites the Swift dash neatly. But when I took demo for both, I selected 9830, there really is some difference in output quality.

gunbir · 26th September 2005, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

"...and the silicon chip inside my head is switched to overload...."

A signal to noise ration of 80db for a Cd player is funny. If someoen gave me that I would ask for the weighting parameters used. (A, C, etc..). These make a significnat difference the to the specs and givne that today almost any CD player can make a 90db+ rating (A- weighted) I would wonder about Blaupunkts rating. I would call Mico and find out.

Pioneer's "supertuner xx" FM tuner is quite good. Better than alpine but what do we get on FM that is worth listening to. Mumbai has virtually no decent music on FM. It's so bad my wife's thinking of getting a soundspace radio.

lastly...5 cents to anyone (other than Mr. Rudra Sen) who can name the artist, album, song i have quoted above WITHOUT using a search engine. :-)

Navinji, Isnt that from a Bon Jovi number...

on the SWS (Spare Wheel Sub), we would build a MDF baffle out of .75" or 1" MDF and cut it out to the shape of the stock (cardboardish) cover over the spare wheel. Then do a flush IB install right over the wheel cavity. As you could see in the pic, there will be more then enough clearance with the mdf baffle and the sub will hang a couple of inches above the wheel. When wanting to remove the spare wheel, just lift of the baffle (you could hinge it on the other side too...) and do so.

You're right about the 5ch amps... the Pioneer 515 in grey costs 17.5K... not everyone can afford that.

In the Swift when using JBL 606 in the front with the spacers JBL provides. While they provide ample clearance from the rear (window doesnt foul with the driver), the depth of the spacer ring is too much and the cone hits the inner panel. The solution is to use a thinner spacer, so instead of the JBL spacer, have your installer fabricate thinner one.

Dunno about Panasonic, they have very simple HUs without the hoopla the market demands. I have used a couple (in 1993) and the sound was nice (warm). They simply exist in the car audio domain and dont do anything exceptional.

We have a lot of experience with Krell as the India Distributor is a very close friend and we are resellers for him. Tru Tech is the 'Krell' of Car Audio. Their figures are underquoted to say the least and their products perform way above the quoted figures. That why they call themselves "TRU"

Autophile · 26th September 2005, 12:42

Navin

Have a look at Krells and Audio Notes of Car Audio here. Installed in Altezza...here..

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7546

Have a look at them @ www.trutechnology.com

navin · 26th September 2005, 12:54

nah...that was penned by Bob Geldof of the Boomtown Rats. The song was Why I dont like Mondays (album "The fine art of surfacing"). Today is Monday get it?

So I would have to remove the baffle of the SWS and that means removing the sub to remove the spare wheel. right?

Have not heard Tru Tech yet. When I do I can pass judgement. Sorry. I dont fly to Delhi so manybe when you guys set up in South Mumbai i'll get the chance.

RobertClive · 27th September 2005, 04:05

I got a chance to hear infinity reference 51/4" speakers installed in Ford ikon (owned by a partner of JBL showroom) . Honestly, I was not impressed. The highs were little very high. I guess it is because the infinity was connected directly to sony HU without an Amp. Infinity Reference 6010Cs costs 9.5K in JBL showroom.

I really liked blaupunkt Velocity sound. Little laid back, highs are pleasant (not harsh as in Infinity that I heard today).

It is very difficult in Blr to hear speakers in action. I really wanted to see JBL 606Ce. It will fit my budget but even JBL showroom does not have a demo piece.

I will also try alpine speakers tomorrow. Any hints on where to find a genuine place in Bangalore would be helpful.

will call mico tomorrow to clarify on the 80db S/N in MP35 series. If they get too technical, I would not understand though. And NavinJi, 9830 is also without B&W. So, is'nt it much similar to pioneer interms of after sales support.

Navin's note on FM is very true. I rarely listen to FM. Just wanted to know clarify things that I find in the net.

To have a decent system, seems like I will have to go past the 30K barrier. I will have to go for subs after couple of months.

25th September 2005, 00:58	#16
Vivekphadnis BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 690 Thanked: 2 Times	Get either the Sony or Pioneer HU if you do not want to spend too much on the Alpine. Buy JBL/Blau/Alpine speakers. I paid Rs 7400 for the 5750. The pre out has a voltage of about 2V I think. You see, it is not that 2V will not work. It is just that higher voltages are better as they will give better signal to noise ratio.
	() Thanks

25th September 2005, 01:13	#17
gunbir Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,465 Thanked: 32 Times	Front Comps - you need to use MDF spacer rings. Have a look at the Getz install thread... you'll get the idea. Spacer rings increase mounting depth available, provide a better mount for the speaker and isolate vibrations. The Hertz ESK165 comps costs Rs. 8170 and sounds very nice. Subs - You have good taste, if you're looking for good integration between the sub and your comps, you are better off with an IB or sealed setup. Depending on your listening preferences, 50-200 watts will work well with an 8" or 10" sub. Remember, good subs sound linear and dont tend to peak or boom. Amp - The blau at that price is way overpriced. Look for cheaper alternatives like the Pioneer GM-D515. See if you can find a good deal on the Alpine MRV-F450. Else, there are always 4 channel amps...
	() Thanks

25th September 2005, 01:30	#18
gunbir Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2,465 Thanked: 32 Times	Heres how I rate them 1. Pioneer 7750 with 2.2V preout at Rs 9000 without B&W 2. Alpine 9830 with 4V Preout at Rs 13000 without B&W 3. Sony CDX-7710 with 4V preout for Rs 12000 with B&W 4. Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 with 2V Preamp at Rs 9500 with B&W 5. Pioneer 5750 2.2V preout for Rs 7000 without B&W 6. Sony CDX-5810 with 4V preout for Rs 8500 with B&W Dont judge them by preout voltage only. If you use decent interconnects, you will be fine.
	() Thanks

25th September 2005, 01:45	#19
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	Thanks gunbir, I was sure by using good connection cables, I could avoid lot of noise. But, I wanted to hear it from some experts. Given the scenario, Blaupunkt Monterrey MP35 or Pioneer 7750 would suit better for me. I am still keeping Blaupunkt Monterry as an option because of the orange backlit which will go well with the overall interiors of swift ZXi (orange backlit in climatic control, clock and odometer). Infact, Monterrey looks more like an OEM in swift. Last edited by RobertClive : 25th September 2005 at 01:51.
	() Thanks

25th September 2005, 03:16	#21
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	One more thought Has anyone heard of Kenwood KSC-SW1 subwoofer. go to this link for more info: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mveHanf...=113KSCSW1#Tab These subwoofers are exactly what I would want. I am not sure if I would get it in India.
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 02:22	#24
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	Do you know any trusted place in Bangalore where I can buy a pioneer set with confidence. I always pictured pioneer as a yet another mass produced audio system. Had blaupunkt and alpine at the top of my list for sound quality. I just hope I am wrong. Since lots of people are favouring pioneer over blaupunkt, I would want to give it a try. I would definitely rate reliability of Pioneer over Sony. I have cassette players (pioneer 8 years old for an old fiat and sony 20 months old in WagonR). I have never had any problem with pioneer till now. But sony already went through two services. I also heard FM reception in Pioneer is not that good as Blaupunkt. Any of you had any experience on this?
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 10:41	#25
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,199 Thanked: 9,307 Times	"...and the silicon chip inside my head is switched to overload...." Robert, I dont think you have enough space for a front sub in your swift. I did not in my Octy. But yes even a small front sub is sooo wonderful. gunbir, does the spare wheel sub shown in post 11 nessiciate removing the sub to remove the spare wheel? robert, often a 4 channel amp and a 2 channel amp will cost less than a 5 channel amp. 5 channel amps are really sold only in the EU. I wish they were cheaper. it wold simplify 90% of the installs I see. SM, as much as I love Mahendra Palesha I cannot recomend his car subs (sumokoo) based on the reviews i had about 12-16 months ago. The bass is sluggish, one note and lumpy. MP claims he is building what the mass market demands. He may be right. Robert, the VPC may fit with a MDF spcaer. Check with your installer. in my view the 606 e should be better than the Blau components. I have heard the Blau components at length and prefered JBL to them but then I prefered Alpine to JBL and would probably prefer Infinity to Alpine (not heard these 2 head to head). Caeveat: my compare was done in october 2004. Things change. one day i might just find the Hertz omps near me to give them a listen. Robert, I'd take the 9830 over the others only becuase i like their sound. with good wires the pre out is not that important. 2V is plenty. 4V makes a little differece if you have a noisy enviroment. I have not compared the Pio to the Balupunkt as the Pios are not available with B&W. In all honesty the Blau with B&W is a good buy considering that the 5750 with B&W might be more than the Blaupunkt. I hear Autocop is selling Pio with B&W but at twice the grey market prices! if I had 10K I'd get the Blau and peace of mind (yes their quality has not been good of late but Mico offers excellent service). if I had 13K the 9830. I hear that Panasonic is also going to distribute their Car Audio products in India. Might be 2-3 months though. I hear they've have set up their HQ in Madras (they were in Delhi before). Those Kenwood woofers are over speced. I dont think the sound they deliver is the same as what their specs claim. specifications are widely abused by most if not all manufacturers. The only manufacturer whose specs I trust does not make car audio. they are called Krell. A signal to noise ration of 80db for a Cd player is funny. If someoen gave me that I would ask for the weighting parameters used. (A, C, etc..). These make a significnat difference the to the specs and givne that today almost any CD player can make a 90db+ rating (A- weighted) I would wonder about Blaupunkts rating. I would call Mico and find out. Pioneer's "supertuner xx" FM tuner is quite good. Better than alpine but what do we get on FM that is worth listening to. Mumbai has virtually no decent music on FM. It's so bad my wife's thinking of getting a soundspace radio. lastly...5 cents to anyone (other than Mr. Rudra Sen) who can name the artist, album, song i have quoted above WITHOUT using a search engine. :-)
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 12:07	#26
Selective BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 305 Thanked: 109 Times	Chose 9830 over Blau I Installed Alpine 9830 with JBLs this week end. Even I was thinking of Blau Monterrary as it suites the Swift dash neatly. But when I took demo for both, I selected 9830, there really is some difference in output quality.
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 12:42	#28
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 931 Thanked: 4 Times	Navin Have a look at Krells and Audio Notes of Car Audio here. Installed in Altezza...here.. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7546 Have a look at them @ www.trutechnology.com
	() Thanks

26th September 2005, 12:54	#29
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,199 Thanked: 9,307 Times	nah...that was penned by Bob Geldof of the Boomtown Rats. The song was Why I dont like Mondays (album "The fine art of surfacing"). Today is Monday get it? So I would have to remove the baffle of the SWS and that means removing the sub to remove the spare wheel. right? Have not heard Tru Tech yet. When I do I can pass judgement. Sorry. I dont fly to Delhi so manybe when you guys set up in South Mumbai i'll get the chance.
	() Thanks

27th September 2005, 04:05	#30
RobertClive BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 54 Thanked: 0 Times	I got a chance to hear infinity reference 51/4" speakers installed in Ford ikon (owned by a partner of JBL showroom) . Honestly, I was not impressed. The highs were little very high. I guess it is because the infinity was connected directly to sony HU without an Amp. Infinity Reference 6010Cs costs 9.5K in JBL showroom. I really liked blaupunkt Velocity sound. Little laid back, highs are pleasant (not harsh as in Infinity that I heard today). It is very difficult in Blr to hear speakers in action. I really wanted to see JBL 606Ce. It will fit my budget but even JBL showroom does not have a demo piece. I will also try alpine speakers tomorrow. Any hints on where to find a genuine place in Bangalore would be helpful. will call mico tomorrow to clarify on the 80db S/N in MP35 series. If they get too technical, I would not understand though. And NavinJi, 9830 is also without B&W. So, is'nt it much similar to pioneer interms of after sales support. Navin's note on FM is very true. I rarely listen to FM. Just wanted to know clarify things that I find in the net. To have a decent system, seems like I will have to go past the 30K barrier. I will have to go for subs after couple of months. Last edited by RobertClive : 27th September 2005 at 04:14.
	() Thanks